Many artists dream about the day they’ll “make it.”

Maybe that means landing gallery representation, selling out an exhibition, earning a steady income from their artwork, or finally receiving the recognition they’ve been working toward.

But according to contemporary painter and educator Jennifer Balkan, those milestones aren’t what keep artists going.

In FASO Podcast Episode #184, Jennifer shares why the artists who last are the ones who fall in love with something much deeper than success—they fall in love with the process itself.

Here are eight powerful lessons from the conversation.

1. If You Feel Pulled Toward Art, Pay Attention

Jennifer didn’t begin as a full-time artist.

She studied behavioral neuroscience, earned a PhD in sociology, and was on what many would consider a practical career path. But after visiting Paris and taking her first painting class, everything changed.

“Once I really discovered painting, I felt so fueled and so passionate about it... I realized that I’ve got to do this.”

Sometimes your calling doesn’t arrive on the timeline you expected. Instead, it finds you when you’re ready to recognize it.

2. Growth Begins Outside Your Comfort Zone

Choosing art wasn't the safe decision. Friends questioned her choice, her family was worried, and Jennifer questioned herself too.

But she learned something every artist eventually discovers:

Comfort rarely leads to growth. Taking thoughtful risks—even small ones—is often what opens the next chapter of your creative life.

3. Your Past Experiences Make Your Art Better

Nothing Jennifer studied was wasted.

Her background in neuroscience and sociology now shapes how she paints people—not just their appearance, but the emotions, thoughts, and humanity beneath the surface.

Everything you’ve experienced becomes part of your artistic voice, and no experience is ever truly unrelated to your work.

4. Don’t Be Afraid to Change Your Process

Even experienced artists get stuck.

Instead of forcing herself to paint the same way forever, Jennifer experimented with Posca markers, colored pens, and new drawing techniques during the pandemic.

Those experiments eventually influenced her oil paintings in unexpected ways.

Trying something new doesn’t mean abandoning your style. In many cases, it’s exactly what helps your style evolve.

5. Your Artistic Voice Develops Through Practice

One of Jennifer’s most encouraging insights is that you don’t have to chase your artistic voice.

It grows naturally through consistent work.

“You will figure it out... You just kind of gravitate toward something.”

The more you study, experiment, and create, the more your unique perspective begins to reveal itself.

Your voice isn’t something you invent; it’s something you uncover through years of observation, practice, and experimentation.

6. Teaching Can Make You a Better Artist

Jennifer never expected teaching to become such an important part of her career.

But explaining painting to others forced her to better understand her own process.

She also discovered that learning never stops.

Students often teach their teachers just as much as teachers teach their students, and sharing knowledge strengthens your own understanding of the craft.

7. A Sustainable Art Career Usually Has Multiple Income Streams

Jennifer is refreshingly honest about the financial realities of being an artist.

Artwork sales alone often fluctuate.

That’s why many successful artists combine exhibitions with teaching, commissions, workshops, licensing, or other creative opportunities.

Building several income streams isn’t a backup plan. For many artists, it’s what makes a long-term creative career both sustainable and rewarding.

8. Fall in Love with the Process—Not Just the Results

This may be Jennifer’s biggest takeaway.

“You’ve got to love the process... If you don’t love the process, then it’s not worth your time... You have to love the practice of doing it.”

Every artist wants to create beautiful finished paintings, but completed artwork represents only a small part of the journey.

Most of your life as an artist is spent sketching, experimenting, making mistakes, starting over, and continuing to learn.

If you can learn to enjoy those moments, you’ve already discovered something that many artists spend years searching for.

The Process Is the Reward

Jennifer Balkan’s story reminds us that becoming an artist isn’t about reaching a destination. It’s about building a creative life you genuinely enjoy living.

The exhibitions, sales, and recognition are wonderful milestones, but they aren’t what sustain a lifelong career.

Curiosity sustains a creative career. Discipline keeps you moving forward. Community provides encouragement along the way. Above all, a genuine love for the daily practice of making art is what makes the journey worthwhile.

When you fall in love with the process, success becomes something much bigger than a finished painting. It becomes a life spent doing work that matters.

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PS — Note from Clint: One of the reasons I built FASO is because I believe art is important, artists are important, and the work you’re called to create deserves to be taken seriously. We are all sharing “miracles of existence” through our art.

Yes, at FASO, we build professional artist websites. Yes, we talk about marketing. Yes, we give artists tools to present their work, tell their stories, reach collectors, and sell more art.

But that is the how.

The why is that we love art, and we want to push back against a world that too often treats art like content and artists like algorithms. The modern world denigrates Beauty in preference of profit and efficiency. At FASO, we hold Beauty sacred.

So we don’t just host artist websites. We promote artists. We feature their work. We try, in our own small way, to help more art find the people who need it. And that informs everything we do and build.

If that resonates with you, we’d be honored to have you join us.

Get Started with FASO for Free

PPS — If you’re not ready to look at FASO, you can support our mission by simply clicking the heart icon at the top or bottom of this article. That helps us reach more artists and art lovers and helps us spread Beauty to a world that is desperate for it.

—Clint

Our use of AI in this article: Our team worked with AI to help generate this summary and from there we manually edited it. Our beef with AI is primarily when it is used in a way that reduces opportunities for artists. Our goal, in the places we do utilize AI, is to use it in a way that supports human artists. And we believe this use case supports rather than harms.

At FASO, we do not train AI on your artwork for the purposes of using it to generate alternative images. We do use AI to protect your artwork from scrapers (including other AI bots) and to detect and block spam. And we are exploring the use of AI in ways that send more art lovers and collectors to our customers.

As always, The FASO Way is an open forum, so we’d love to know what your opinion of such AI use is in the comments. And, please, as we always request, all comments must be dignified and respectful of us and of your fellow artist colleagues who may have differing points of view. We are in this together, so discussion, and even debate, is important. But hateful or threatening comments will be blocked.

Join our next FASO Show Live!
https://register.faso.com/live-guest

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For today’s episode, we sat down with Ned Mueller, an American artist and longtime illustrator-turned-fine-painter, known for his strong drawing, expressive plein air and figurative work, and decades of teaching and mentoring artists around the world. He shares his lifelong journey in art, from drawing as a child and training as an illustrator at Art Center School of Design to eventually transitioning into a fine artist with a distinct voice of his own. He talks candidly about facing serious health challenges, chronic pain, and burnout risks, and how having something meaningful to get up for—his painting practice and the support of his wife Karen—has kept him going. Drawing on decades of experience, Ned emphasizes the “four P’s”: patience, perseverance, practice, and passion, urging artists to find subjects they truly love so their excitement shows in the work. He underscores the importance of strong fundamentals—especially drawing and values—explaining that you must first learn to paint what you know, then what you see, and ultimately what you feel. Ned also advises artists to simplify by thinking in big shapes, values, and edges, to do lots of small studies (in plein air and the studio), and to keep sharpening their skills through critique groups, workshops, and consistent practice. Throughout the conversation, he offers grounded yet hopeful insight into building a sustainable art life: do the work, keep learning, accept the hard realities of the art market, and let your love for painting carry you through the long haul. Finally, Ned tells us about his online classes!

Ned’s FASO site:
www.nedmueller.com/

Sign up for Ned’s workshops!
www.nedmueller.com/workshops

Sign up for Ned’s Newsletter!
www.nedmueller.com/email-newsletter

Ned’s Social Media:
www.instagram.com/nedmueller06/

www.facebook.com/NedMuellerFineArt/

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Transcript:

Ned Mueller: 0:00

Sort of the four Ps: patience, perseverance, practice, and do something you love. No, find something you love, because, and you can get excited about, because if you’re not excited about your pain, it’s going to show.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:19

Welcome to the FASO podcast, where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I’m your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips, specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world in order to hear their advice and insights. For today’s episode, we sat down with Ned Mueller, an American artist and longtime illustrator turned fine painter, known for his strong drawing, expressive planar and figurative work, and decades of teaching and mentoring artists around the world. He shares his lifelong journey in art, from drawing as a child and training as an illustrator at Art Center School of Design, to eventually transitioning into a fine artist with a distinct voice of his own, he talks candidly about facing serious health challenges, chronic pain, and burnout risks, and how having something meaningful to get up for, his painting practice, and the support of his wife, Karen, has kept him going. Drawing on decades of experience, Ned

emphasizes the four Ps: 1:19

patience, perseverance, practice, and passion, urging artists to find subjects that they truly love, so their excitement shows in the work. He underscores the importance of strong fundamentals, especially drawing and values, explaining that you must first learn to paint what you know, then what you see, and ultimately what you feel. Ned also advises artists to simplify by thinking in big shapes, values, and edges, to do lots of small studies in plein air and its studio, and to keep sharpening their skills through critique groups, workshops, and consistent practice. Throughout the conversation, he offers grounded yet hopeful insight into building a sustainable art life. Do the work, keep learning, accept the hard realities of the art market, and let your love for painting carry you through the long haul. Finally, Ned tells us about his online classes. Welcome, Ned, to the FASO podcast. How are you today?

Ned Mueller: 2:11

Pretty good, thanks very much, Laura. It’s great to be here. It’s a sunny good day. Summer’s here, and yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 2:21

yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah, I’m excited to have you, because your work is so stunning. Every image that I see is so beautifully composed. I love your multi-figure compositions, and just capturing life the way that you capture it is just.. it’s, it’s so pleasing to the eyes, so I’m really grateful and excited to have you on.

Ned Mueller: 2:45

Well, thanks for those great words, I appreciate them. Yeah, yeah, I’m looking back, I don’t know how I did it. Look back in the 85 85 I’m looking back more than I’m looking forward. So, I, I see what I did, and I look at some of my.. I couldn’t.. I can’t do what I did 50 years ago.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:14

I just

Ned Mueller: 3:15

don’t have the energy, or you know, whatever. So, I do what I can do.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:23

Yeah, yeah, that’s how it is. I feel like that’s one of those natural things about, you know, getting older and also having a career that is so exciting. I mean, being an artist, it’s never like a never-ending array of problem solving in all the senses, and of course, we change, we evolve, our work evolves, and that’s just the natural part about being a human being. But actually, I did want to ask you, if you don’t mind telling us, you know, me and our listeners, a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Ned Mueller: 3:59

Well, I call myself an artist, probably, you know, but I, I had such a nice career as an illustrator, and my training was all in that direction, so I mean, I’ve, I’ve had to make changes becoming a fine artist, but yeah, I started young. I was drawing when I was four years old, and gosh, in school they gave me assignments to do Thanksgiving decorations, Christmas. I got encouragement from my teachers, my parents, and my friends, you know, I didn’t hear some of the, get some of the horror stories you hear what some kids have gone through, and you know, so really lucky that way, and I. And my big break was I got admitted to one of the best art schools in the country Art Center School of Design, and that was great, and I got an illustration, and now I’m older and don’t have the energy, and I’ve got this rare autoimmune disease that I, this pancreatitis that I have to get operated on every month or so, and then I’ve got chronic pain from nerve damage, so it’s limited me, which is really made me frustrated, and really probably the hardest thing to adjust to, you know, from just being healthy for so long, you know, and gosh, but I, but right, like right now I’m feeling pretty good, and I get work done. We go to drawing sessions twice a week, and then I’m getting stuff done in the studio, and so right now, you know, doing okay.

Laura Arango Baier: 6:15

Yeah, it’s good that you, you do what you can when you can, and that’s what really matters, because, of course, painting can be really motivating as well. It gives you something to enjoy, and wake up in the morning and say, I want to continue this piece, and I feel like I have the energy to do it, and I think that’s that’s really great. I think it makes a huge difference.

Ned Mueller: 6:36

Yeah, we have something I think I told it before, we went to a pain clinic at the VA, and the instructor was pretty rough. You guys are in here, you have chronic pain, and chronic pain means chronic pain, you’re going to have it the rest of your lives. And boy, everybody kind of shuddered, you know, because you always have hope. Oh, it’s going to go, but no, often it doesn’t. And, and, and the whole thing was that I have something to get up for in the morning, and also I had my artwork, and half of them didn’t, and half of them were on opioids, and that wasn’t - they just had nothing to get up for, I guess. Even if you have to get up for a peanut butter sandwich, it’s something, but the other thing I’ve got, my dear wife Karen, that she’s a heck of an artist, and she, she really looks after me. Yeah, she.. I wouldn’t be here if one for her.

Laura Arango Baier: 7:51

Yeah, it’s good to have a support system.

Ned Mueller: 7:54

Oh, it really is. Artists need artists too. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 7:59

yes. Yeah, community artists, just someone who can understand as well. Yeah, yeah. And I actually did want to ask you as well, can you tell us a little bit more about your path as an artist, you know, how it began and where it continued?

Ned Mueller: 8:19

Yeah, like I was saying, and I was drawing, I drew figures and landscapes, mostly drawing, and then when I got in high school, took art, and luckily had a pretty good teacher, and he saw I had had a little bit of talent, so he kind of mentored me along, and that was helpful, so I was doing more painting, and then I went to, I was in Bozeman, Montana, in the state, one of the state colleges there, Montana State, so all my friends were going to school there, and my parents moved to California, so I wanted to stay, but their art department, everything was getting into modern art, and I was really one naive person, and just didn’t understand it or the purpose of it, so I love to draw, so I just took architecture for three quarters, but wasn’t totally happy there, and in the middle of the winter quarter, a bunch of my friends were fed up with winter and everything, and they decided they’re going to drop out of school and go to San Francisco, live on the beach. So I had, what the heck, that sounds like a good idea. Didn’t know what direction I was going. But I, I stayed and finished the quarter, at least my dad would have killed me if I dropped out, and, and so that’s how I got in California, and it lasted about eight months living on the beach, our parents were getting pretty disgusted of us, so they all went back to Montana, and my parents were living just north of San Francisco, and basically my dad said, “Well, what, what do you think you want to do? He said, “I don’t know, I’ve always wanted to be an illustrator or an artist, but I had no confidence, I don’t think I could ever do it, and he said, Well, okay, we get you in an art school, we’re going to get you in the very best one, because that’s what you’re going to compete against when you get out. So that was really good advice. And anyways, we interviewed some other schools and letters, but anyways we drove down to Los Angeles and interviewed Art Center School, and I just had a crummy little cardboard portfolio, some drawings, and a couple of paintings, and they saw something, and they gave, they accepted me, and gave me a scholarship, so I was just overwhelmed. I thought, geez, you know, I’m in this art school with people from all over the world, and yeah, and it was, it was really something, and every teacher was a working professional, so they knew what you needed to know, and it was tough. I mean, they gave you a lot of assignments, nobody was looking to see if you already had four assignments by another teacher or other teacher. Anyways, that it was even tougher to get out of it, had really high standards, and they asked my one of my best friends to leave after six semesters, but they kind of did him a favor, because he wanted to coach football, so that turned out well for him. And I remember the sixth semester I didn’t hand in one assignment, they made with your scholarship, had to go straight through, no breaks, and I just had no gas in the tank. It was just.. I never had that experience. I just hit this wall anyways. They called me into the office, and well, this is it. Gonna get kicked out, and apparently this was not unusual, even happened to older students, and they said you just settle down, get back this next semester, and you know, get some work done. So I did graduated, and I forgot the question. My wandering off of it,

Laura Arango Baier: 13:18

no, no, you’re, we’re discussing, you know, your entire trajectory of becoming an artist,

Ned Mueller: 13:25

yeah. And anyway, so after that, that was 1963 and it was just before Vietnam, and so they’re having the draft and all that stuff, and you know, if you’re in college, you were safe, but once you’re out, you were put on a list, so most of us are trying to get in the reserves, and including myself, but two of my best friends went in the Marine Corps reserves, anyways, everything was filled up and the only thing left was the Marine Corps Reserve. So I went across the street and signed up, and went to boot camp a couple months later, and I, after a month and a half, two months, I got pneumonia really bad, and ended up in the hospital. Couple guys died next to me. I didn’t know it was that serious. Anyways, all of a sudden I couldn’t sleep, and that went on and on, and you know, I don’t know, I was really worried about it. Talk to a chaplain, he said, “Just go back to training and you’ll be okay, and I did, and it did got worse and worse. Anyways, I ended up with a. Breakdown got out, got out the medical honorable discharge, and it’s a long story. What happened there was the issues even before I went in, which I wasn’t aware of, repressed a lot of anger and shame. I won’t go into all that, but anyways, it didn’t help, and ended up just literally like a vegetable, and I admitted myself to the hospital and got some good treatment, got out, got back on my feet, when you know, started out working as a laborer, as a, as a carpenter, started doing work, you know, weekends and nights of my portfolio, and going to drawing sessions, and you know, getting some confidence back, and going to San Francisco for interviews, and so slowly getting freelance work, and this, that, and you know, doing getting better assignments, and gosh, I did everything I was, I did architectural illustrations, I did storyboards, I was a courtroom artist, you know, you do anything that comes along to make money, and the whole key there was not that you had to be the very best, which was kind of my goal, for better or for worse, but that you were reliable, that you’d get the job done, because sometimes there were millions of dollars at stake, and you know some of those, the advertising, so, so I, you know, I was good at getting it done, and yeah, and I did that for 25 years, yeah, and got some great assignments, and gosh, I did at one point, I did murals for the Olive Garden restaurant, just traveling all over the country doing, I got so I could do a six by 12 foot mural in one day, I mean, they weren’t great works of art, but they weren’t bad either. They’re pretty good, and yeah, and so I, and I was doing the thing, because I could draw well, and I want to say here, for drawing well, you don’t necessarily have to draw the figure, I have landscape friends, some of the best in the country, and we talk on the fall star now that’s oh, Ned, you know, you know, you do figures and portraits and all this stuff, and I just do landscapes, I said, yeah, but you don’t want to do figures you love and do great landscapes, so cut that out. And the point is, if like, if you draw, if you were drawing landscapes or even couches or whatever you were doing, after a few years your eye gets so good you could do a good figure, because all this business is is developing our eye, our judgment, and whether you’re drawing it, I mean, if you’re going to do figures, you know it’s good to go to drawing sessions and you know get good at that, but yeah, you’re just developing your eye. The thing of doing figures, because it’s so difficult, and if you don’t love it, you know, you’re just not going to probably survive it, really, because it is a lot of hard work and a long time, and, but if you get good at that, you can. I was able to draw horses and other animals and everything, because I could do the figure, because it was so hard. And, yeah, so it’s not just you have to draw the figure, you know, you draw anything, you’re going to get good.

Laura Arango Baier: 19:46

It’s very true, and that’s definitely something that you gain with illustration, since illustration is very much, you got to figure out how to do all the things, since most of the time you don’t know what jobs you’re going to get, and it’s good to. Had a job, or you can do all of the things that they’re asking for, you know,

Ned Mueller: 20:06

yeah, but then I, you know, illustration started turning to digital, and photography was kind of taking over magazines and stuff, so, so I was wondering what’s going to happen, but anyways, I was coming home from a camping or painting trip in Montana, and there’s a western show in Ellensburg, Washington. I just pulled off this curiosity and went in there, met some of the artists, and geez, they were, you know, doing paintings of stuff that I enjoyed doing, and I thought, geez, what the heck’s going on here? And talked to the other artists, showed him my work, and they said, gosh, you know, because I had gotten pretty good as an illustrator, and they says, “Wow, yeah, you should, if you’re interested, get involved with this, you know. So I kind of hit some of the shows running, because it’s just that I getting into fine arts, like one of the first big shows was this Northwest Rendezvous in Montana, and I had to submit three times because my work was just a little too commercial, you know. It kind of, as an illustrator, you have to develop certain techniques and stuff you can rely on, because you can’t get an assignment and then do a bad painting, and so you had to have some skill levels, and you know some discipline and consistency, so I had that, but in the fine arts it was not so much that you know, looking for something you know that really sets you aside and makes you look different, more more creative, so and I started hanging out with more artists, so to speak, and, and, and just sing, and some of the beautiful work. Gosh, I was started doing plein air, and, and God accepted in the plein air painters of America, and boy, some of those people were just doing wonderful things, and I said, yeah, you know, here I’m sitting here, you know, very nice work, but not really what I’d like to do, so being exposed to that, you know, I think, and if you can, and most artists are pretty open and helpful and friendly, be because it’s like, you know, if you just kind of stay off by yourself, you know, you may not be challenged, but if you’re with a group and you’re painting with people that are better than you in some regards, or whatever, or whole lot of things that kind of makes you try to lift your game, you know. It’s like tennis, if you or anything, if you play with somebody you can beat every time, you’re not going to get much better. So that was good to me, and I just got out there, and I see other artists around here in the area that just for some reason they didn’t want to go, but particularly this area, when I got here, some of the other established artists, and really says, Ned, you got to get your stuff out of state, because if you just hang around here, you know you’re going to be selling your paintings for three or $400 So I did that and saw what I needed to do to get better and to advance there wasn’t no internet. Then you pretty much advanced by how good you got. The better you got, the better galleries you got in, the better shows. So it’s changed now. Yeah, it’s still a lot of that, but gee whiz, yeah, yeah, I don’t know how people keep up with it. It’s really, it’s difficult, you know? I do a little bit. I told other artists or other people, boy, I just.. and they told me, “Wow. Tonight, well, you’re doing a lot more than most people, and I guess I guess I was, and still am a little bit, but this point I’m just kind of painting what I want to paint, you know, and you know, don’t care so much whether it sells or

Laura Arango Baier: 25:22

not,

Ned Mueller: 25:23

so it’s kind of a nice position to be in, yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 25:28

yeah, and it’s, I think it’s so serendipitous that you ran into the, the Western painters when you were, you know, just hanging out, and then suddenly you went from illustration into fine art, do you find that there were some, because you did mention that your work was a little too commercial, but were there other aspects of illustration, technically speaking, that you felt really set you apart from other fine artists who hadn’t had an illustration background?

Ned Mueller: 25:59

I had that training, where drawing, you know, I, and I had the love of drawing, and I could draw well, and well, I might mention, and I read once in the paper one of the one of the fine art schools here was getting a new director. I interviewed him in the paper, and he says, “You know, we’re not going to teach skills here, and he said, “But they get in the way of creativity, and I thought that’s crazy in a way, he’s right, anyways. In my example, I, I could draw so well, it kind of became a crutch. I thought it enabled me to do, and I was, because, namely, I could do watercolors, I did watercolors, gouache, acrylic, pastels, and oils, because I had this idea to be this great artist, you should be able to do everything and anything, and I finally woke up one day and realized nobody else is trying to do this. It’s insane, you know, the most, most people are maybe doing two or three mediums, you Yeah, but one of my friends, the name was Bill Reese, and he was kind of the dean of artists in the Northwest, but he could do everything, he could sculpt on top of it, and watercolor and oils and pastels and watercolor, but he, he was a rare one, so anyways, I cut it down, I quit doing acrylics and and watercolor and kind of kept it to oils and pastels, and so I was mostly doing, doing that, and I was doing a lot of, I love to do portraits, you know, and I’m pretty good at it, because I love it, you know, and kind of like people like to do figures and portraits anyway, so I, but I didn’t want to ever do it for a living, because that’s kind of what you get caught up doing too much of, so I just do it mostly now to keep my skills sharp, and because I enjoy it, you know, I

Laura Arango Baier: 28:45

like that you just mentioned sharp skills. Sorry, yeah, it is one of those things that, um, we do have to keep honing the blade, so to speak, no matter how long it’s been.

Ned Mueller: 28:58

Yeah, it is, um yeah, and, and even if I get away from doing it for, like, with my health reasons, I wasn’t able to do things much for a month or so, not go back and do it, and, Jesus, you know, start a three hour, the first, first, we’ll one or two, I just couldn’t get with it, but it took, and it just took two or three times. You start getting back to it. It’s, it’s always there, doesn’t leave you, but and you don’t lose it. I don’t think you lose it. It just takes a little while, a little rusty, and you just get back on the horse, so to speak.

Laura Arango Baier: 29:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s one of those things where I think you mentioned last time, it’s like riding a bike a little bit, yeah, where no. Maybe, maybe at first it feels kind of awkward, and then you know you’re back in on it in no time, but yeah, and I also did want to ask too, because you mentioned early on when you were, you know, getting jobs or like getting back into illustration after your time being ill, what did you find that maybe you had a little bit of burnout from school as well, and then have you had maybe some sort of like burnout as well throughout your career? And then if you did, how did you overcome, you know, that feeling of burnout or artist block?

Ned Mueller: 30:41

Oh boy, that’s a tough one, because I did a lot of different things, like, you know, I think if you’re doing the same thing too much, or you probably get burnt, but I, I was doing different subjects, so I think that sort of lessened it, I would get, I don’t want to recall ever getting totally burned out. I just did a portrait workshop this last weekend, and then we went to our drawing session Monday, and I just. I was just flat, you know, and I just wasn’t excited about anything, you know. So, yeah, so that it happens, but I’ve never experienced that total thing. And two, I traveled quite a bit. I love the travel because I love painting different cultures, and I just had a curiosity for that, and I wanted to, and I wanted to expand beyond, you know, just the United States, and I wanted to see the world, and know, and do other things, so yeah, I was always, always busy with something, I mean, it was never, never a quiet air, like I never took a vacation, I think it was for almost 20 years, that’s really dumb, but I think I said I was driven, you know, I didn’t want to fall behind,

Laura Arango Baier: 32:27

yeah. But why do you, why do you say that it was done to not take a vacation,

Ned Mueller: 32:33

not take a vacation?

Laura Arango Baier: 32:35

Yeah, why was it

Ned Mueller: 32:36

done? You really need a break, and you know you need to get a break away from doing it, but even when we did go on a trip or something, I always had my camera, I was always looking to find a scene that I could paint later, so even then I wouldn’t get away from it. Just to, yeah, I think I think that’s that’s healthy. I don’t, I think someone like me, that’s you know, doing it every day, and you know that’s not healthy. I wasn’t healthy.

Laura Arango Baier: 33:17

That’s good to know. Um, I think I agree. I think it’s important to rest as much as it is, you know, to do a lot, but I totally understand. I think a lot of people, like you, especially who are extremely driven, just find it hard to not keep going, you know. It’s tough. Yeah.

Ned Mueller: 33:39

Now I have to, because of my health issue. I have to, so, and I just ask Karen. I still get this urge to, you know, go off someplace and do this and do that, and I’m not even capable of it. can. If she wasn’t here, I’m sure I’d be dead.

Laura Arango Baier: 34:10

That’s very dark. Well, I’m glad that she’s there

Ned Mueller: 34:20

trying to climb this cliff to get a better view of the landscape or something, yeah, but that’s I survived, I got lucky, yeah, fell off a couple of not tall cliffs, but short cliffs, and that didn’t help.

Laura Arango Baier: 34:48

Goodness,

Ned Mueller: 34:50

I mean, they were just things. Yeah, I did a lot of.. I love. Backpacking and hiking in the mountains, so yeah, and coming down on a rough trail, you know, it’s so easy to get in a hurry and stumble, and you know, you hit your head on a rock, it can kill you, so I did that a couple times, and managed to fall in a bush.

Laura Arango Baier: 35:27

At least it was a bush and not a rock. Yeah, yeah. And who says that artists don’t have risky jobs, especially if you do go hiking to find the perfect view and the perfect spot to paint, besides, you know, using toxic pigments and toxic cleaning materials. Yeah, I think we have a very strange kind of risky job.

Ned Mueller: 35:55

Yeah, yeah, it is. Karen just finally got me off of turpentine, what is it? Can’t think the name of it, but it’s, it’s, it’s better, it’s healthier.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:11

Yeah, there’s a, there’s a few brands that are good, there’s mineral spirits, or odorless mineral spirits, there’s Gamsol, that’s what

Ned Mueller: 36:17

I was using, but she, she thought I needed to get rid of that, because there’s no such thing as odorless, apparently.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:24

No, there isn’t. It’s good to have an air purifier, or just like not be anywhere near it for many hours, have good air circulation. Yeah, it can be, could be really risky.

Ned Mueller: 36:39

Then, when I was doing pastels on top of it, and again, all that powder going all over.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:44

Yep, you need to have some sort of suction thing, like a vacuum underneath, so you’re not breathing that in, because that it’s also gonna get really dangerous.

Ned Mueller: 36:56

Learn a mask, and, yep,

Laura Arango Baier: 37:00

yeah, wear one of those like really intense masks with, like, the, you know, like for people who do woodwork, but yeah, besides that, I wanted to ask you also, when you were transitioning into becoming a fine artist from illustration, did you start making paintings to work with galleries, while you were still taking on illustration jobs, or did you just cut, you know, very dry between the two?

Ned Mueller: 37:29

Oh, I was doing both. Yeah, doing both. Yeah, I guess it slowed my transition up, you know, and I, and I, and I hear a lot, a lot of people say, well, illustrators make really good fine artists, because they, they have good skills drawing, and I think better one can draw, the better one can design, you know, I think that sharpens your design skills. I, I think all that’s drawing even probably makes you more sensitive to color. You know, I’ve heard that before. I don’t know if that’s true or not, probably for some people.

Laura Arango Baier: 38:21

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, and also want to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly webinar, The FASO Show, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories, and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you’re a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn, and spark new ideas, and whether you’re stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don’t miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next FASO show webinar is coming up on the 18th of June with our special guest, Timothy Tyler. You can find the signup link in the show notes. Yeah, I mean, when I was in school, we used to say you can’t out render a bad drawing, you just can’t. So, I agree, I think drawing is the fundamental thing to learn, and everything just comes from there. And I agree, I think a lot of the illustrators that I’ve seen, who have become fine artists, they’re really excellent composers, just from the get-go. I feel like there’s something with the extreme amount of work that illustrators have to produce that the more you do it, the more you pick up the intuition of how to design a really good image, whether it’s just drawing or value, and then, of course, adding color on top, because I know a lot of illustrators take some sort of, you know, color class where they have to learn, okay, well, these are the colors that represent this, and if you want more mystery, you add more green, or if you want more of this, then you know the image would have. Include that, although that’s, you know, I haven’t personally been in an illustration program, so I’m not totally sure, but I feel like every illustrator I’ve seen has this magical ability to just get it, and I’m like, did I go the wrong way? Should I have been an illustrator

Ned Mueller: 40:17

there for years? You know, Norman Rockwell, one of the greatest illustrators of all time, they made fun of him because, but jeez, his illustrations, as far as I’m concerned, they were fine art. I mean, he designed those things, he would do value studies and color studies, and, and full-size drawings of things before he did the finish, and I’ve got some back there, my wall, that geez, they are just, they’re just beautiful paintings, and tell a story, and credibly designed. Yeah, that’s one thing that getting the fine arts. Maybe it’s the next thing, but a drawing, but the process of getting an image, we, you know, if you get an assignment, you had to make sure you’re on the same page as the art director, so we did value studies, we did color studies, just to make sure you know we were doing what they want, and so I got in the habit of doing those, and I still do those in my fine art work. I find out a lot of my fine art, they don’t do those things, they didn’t expose to that, but I just remember, you know, the important value is the old masters worked in black and white for four years before they went in color, and when I was in art school it was two years, and our first color assignment was three white eggs on a light blue plate, but boy, we learned about value, because when people get into color, the first thing they miss is the value, amongst other things, but it’s really makes a difference. Yeah, so I use it in my paintings.

Laura Arango Baier: 42:42

Yeah, yeah, I feel like hierarchically, you know, to have a really good composition, a lot of people, and it’s natural because we’re so attracted to color, a lot of people, you know, they think, oh well, color, but in reality it’s so, it’s so, so, so much more about value and drawing and just placement of those values in the right places to keep the eye on the canvas, so that you know the color just add it’s like the cherry on top of everything, and to your point also about how illustration maintained that you know rigorous sort of like value study to you know, just doing a lot of studies, a lot of tests before the final piece. It’s very funny, because I find that that’s actually something that the old masters also did, but at some point, I think, you know, at the turn of the century, when unfortunately fine arts was seen as a dying thing, and illustration was able to maintain what I like to call the past the torch, so to speak. I feel like illustration kept it, but a lot of the more modern art schools seem to just avoid it completely, especially when modernism really took over, because it became more like, oh, well, you can have whatever process you want, because we don’t want to limit you, but I feel like that really alienated a lot of people who wanted to pursue fine art and really needed that type of support that illustrators got in their process and the type of process that they maintained, so I find it really interesting that now we’re like hopefully going full circle, where a lot more fine artists today are doing color studies and value studies and testing things, which is important. Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 44:34

yeah, so I think more people are doing it and coming up with our paintings. The exception is like a plein air thing, which I did a lot of that, and I was doing that, I was just starting off and just starting out and painting cold turkey and. I, you know, had probably had more failures than successes, but then I started going back, at least getting a something down, a note or something, and you know, not getting so many clunkers, but there’s a fine line where there’s a lot to be said just for being spontaneous, but you find a lot of the really good solid painters are doing studio work, they’re they have the time to do the studies and everything, and then they’ll have this big beautiful great painting that they’ve thought out well, and it’s just gorgeous. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 45:49

yeah, I think it’s, it’s a bit of a balance too, because, like, yeah, of course, approaching a painting, it’s important to keep in mind the composition, but then at the same time I don’t know if it’s happened to you, where you look at a painting that’s almost too perfect, it becomes a little bit boring. So it is also nice to keep some of that spontaneity and some of those little accidents that can happen sometimes, where you brush kind of strange, and it’s not really what’s happening in reality, but it works, and at that point you know you start having a bit more of a dialog with, okay, do I want this to be perfect, quote unquote, which isn’t really a thing, or do I want this to be something more alive, and I think that’s, you know, later on, after someone paints more, it’s the type of conversation they have with their work,

Ned Mueller: 46:43

yeah, yeah, they find it that in all my teaching over the years of talking to other artists was kind of three stages, people start out painting what they know, you know, they know the sky is blue and grass is green and in the shadows or cool to go in the shade to get cool, so they paint all that, and and then you get them to paint what they see, but sometimes the sky is yellow or orange, the grass is brown, and most shadows are warm, so no, except for early morning, and sun goes down, and so that makes makes a difference, and they start painting what they see, they start learning more about color and harmony and all that, and then the third stage is the best stage, you paint what you feel more, it gets a more little more emotion in it, but most people want to do the third stage before they’ve gone through the other two, so yeah, I know, if I ever told people I was gonna, they’re gonna do value studies for a week, five days, nobody would sign up, no, you know, because they all want to get into color and everything, so you kind of have to once you explain it to him, show him it makes sense. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 48:26

yeah, yeah. And that’s very interesting, because I did my first ever attempt at Plan Air yesterday, and I was first of all shocked at how overwhelming it is. It’s windy, there’s geese walking next to you, thinking you have food. It’s, and of course, I had to stop because it started raining, but I decided, okay, I’m not going to overwhelm myself. I’m just going to paint on a white canvas with Van Dyke brown and with some mineral spirits, just so I’m only focusing on value, just trying to lay things out, and I wouldn’t say it was a bad attempt. I’m actually kind of happy with it, but I think, yeah, just focusing on value alone was a challenge, trying to decide, okay, what do I want to bring forward? What do I want to push back? What do I want the center of attention to be? Where do I want to protect my lightest value? Just with that, it’s, it’s a lot to handle with color. I think I would have been so stressed out, I would have panicked

Ned Mueller: 49:37

the first time I went out with friends. Jeez, I have, I was trying to paint some trees, and I tried to paint the branches and all the leaves, and after a couple hours it was just a mess, and I looked at their work, and the hour and a half, they had some beautiful paintings. You learn how to paint, you know, 500 leaves with one brush stroke,

Laura Arango Baier: 50:09

so

Ned Mueller: 50:10

yeah, it’s good to get out there, because it forces you to simplify, you know, forces you to get stuff down, so you can see what’s right and what’s wrong, you know, get the darn thing covered,

Laura Arango Baier: 50:27

yeah,

Ned Mueller: 50:28

yeah, and once I found in my own work, in my students’ work, once they could think more shapes instead of details, they’ve really started thinking more like an artist, you know, getting the big relationships down, and it makes a big difference. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 50:52

yeah, the big masses, and the just having the right location for things before anything else. Yeah, it’s extreme, like, wow, extremely important. I think the other part that I was panicking a little bit about was the changing sunlight, which, of course, inevitable, we are rotating quite fast. So I also ignored that, because if I didn’t ignore it, I think I would also lose my mind just because you know I was just focusing, you know, I’m just going to get the drawing because there’s this beautiful building, I’m just going to get the building, and some of the really nice trees that I see close by, I don’t want to overwhelm myself with, oh, and now the sun is over here, so let me start putting that, like, no, stop,

Ned Mueller: 51:45

just go out with a 12 by 16 panel and divide it up into four six by eights, and just as does it, you can then with, you know, and on paint it with a number six or eight brush, no ones or twos, and just forces you to see the big color relationships, little, and just concentrate on getting big color relationship, and you can, you, you’ll find out you can do one of them in half an hour. After a while, yeah. And don’t try to do anything big outside, maybe after you’ve done it five or six years.

Laura Arango Baier: 52:40

Yeah, that’s good. I think my,

Ned Mueller: 52:44

you’re going to learn more by doing where you can do 10 eight by 10s or six by eights, and 10 of them, maybe a day or two, instead of doing a large one that takes you all day, you know, you can get 10 paintings done in one day, as opposed to doing one in one or two days. I mean, there’s a lot to be said, you got to blow it up, and everything changes, but you know, and I’ve talked a lot, a lot of other artists said, you know, that’s really, really made a difference for them.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:26

Yeah, yeah. Actually, the canvas that I used, I made sure that I wouldn’t, because I only had like a piece of loose canvas with it, was already pre-gessed. Well, it’s oil primed, and I just taped it down. I was like, I’m not even going to use this entire piece of canvas, I’m just going to use maybe half of it, and that made it a lot easier, but because I got rained on and it was a pretty bad storm, I could only get like 45 minutes to an hour in, so I had to abandon it, but, but, yeah, I’ll try the four little ones, just, you know, kind of like when I did color studies for portraits, where it’s you’re not worried about getting the features perfect, you’re not worrying about the drawing too much, just major placements, major values, and then go from there. Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 54:14

same thing.

Laura Arango Baier: 54:15

Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 54:16

doing a portrait, if you get the, if you get the shape, the shadow shape, right? You get a likeness, you get the right color and right shadow side of a tree, and the light side, it’s going to be a pine tree or a maple that has that look, and yeah, just makes all the difference in the world, but trouble is, we all, you know, and that’s there’s why it’s being a self-taught artist is really tough, because you know you can get with somebody, can really save you a lot of time, you know, can.

Laura Arango Baier: 55:01

Yeah, yeah, and time is something we don’t get back money, we hopefully do, but time is not, time is non-refundable. So I agree, it’s good to get someone that can help who is knowledgeable, but then actually speaking of money, for your career, what were some of the ways that you were able to maintain some of your income as an artist? Was it primarily galleries? Was it commission work? Teaching?

Ned Mueller: 55:31

Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did commission work. I started teaching early. They had me teaching even when I was at Art Center. They started a Saturday group for some of the better high school students there, and they asked me if I’d do it, and I never taught before to know what to do, but I’ve found I enjoyed it, and you know, I, I knew more than they did, so that’s kind of good, and and then they even had me substituting for some of the instructors or teaching life drawing. Boy, I was in a little over my head there, almost got in a fight with a couple of guys, goodness.

Laura Arango Baier: 56:24

Why?

Ned Mueller: 56:25

Oh, I just.. I forget. Probably more my fault, something I didn’t handle, but some of these guys I remember hearing stories of, you know, veterans coming back after the Korean War, getting the GI Bill and going to college, and some of these professors were going on. Well, these were in art classes that were going on too much about theory, and they, they literally grabbed their cow, says, listen, I, you know, I just came through hell, and I want to learn how, and I need to get a job, so teach me how to do something constructive. Just don’t talk,

Laura Arango Baier: 57:18

that’s understandable.

Ned Mueller: 57:20

Yeah. Mm. yeah, so that’s where the, yeah, lucky to have instructors that were working professionals. They, they knew what the heck you needed, needed to know if you’d listen to them.

Laura Arango Baier: 57:42

That’s the key. key, you can lead a horse to water,

Ned Mueller: 57:46

yeah, yeah. And

Laura Arango Baier: 57:48

then, do you find that working with the, you know, like any of the organizations, associations, like Oil Painters of America, or any of that, did that also help you with, you know, making more sales, or also just connecting with other artists.

Ned Mueller: 58:06

Yeah, mainly my sales got better, and I could get more money just because I was getting better. Yeah, there, you know, there, like I said, you didn’t have the internet and all these other things, to you know, Instagram, and all that stuff, to promote yourself, so then it was just, you just, you just got better, and you got in better shows, and better galleries, and sold more paintings and made more money. Yeah, I’m probably the wrong person to ask how to make a good living artist. I’ve never even taken a business course,

Laura Arango Baier: 59:02

I but I think it’s

Ned Mueller: 59:04

pretty typical of most artists, you know. We avoid those things like a plague, but the galleries, you know, did that, and there were better collectors there? They don’t, they don’t teach it in schools anymore, but there’s three states that mandatory they have teach art classes or music, or the three states, rest, they don’t have to, and so the collectors, when I was getting involved, they got it in school, they, they loved it, they studied it. Most of those collectors are dead or dying, so I think there’s less educated collectors, and I think. Right, that’s a big problem, that’s kind of catching up with us, and I live in a high-tech area in Seattle. Here, I’ve seen Microsoft’s collection, it’s pathetic, it’s all hard edge and boring, and you know, no feeling, so yeah, it’s.. I don’t know, it’s.. it’s got to be tough. I’m glad I’m not starting out now. I just glad I was able to start when I did, and we had.. we had good collectors. There were more there. I, yeah. but

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:43

I do think what you said is still, it still holds true, which is the better you are, you know, with your work, the better artists technically skilled, but also in terms of developing your voice as an artist, you know, what makes your painting stand out from the others, it could still be fine art, of course. I think that still holds very true. That really good work when it is marketed, because now, of course, we have social media, and people can actually work without galleries. When you can take care of that marketing side, I still.. I could be naive, though. I don’t know. I still believe that really good work speaks for itself, and if you have a way to market it, show it to people, it’s.. it’s going to make a difference, instead of, you know, marketing something that’s maybe less good or a little bit more well, something that needs more time to develop, I think it’s good work speaks for itself. Again, it could be nice, but I

Ned Mueller: 1:01:50

agree, but then two, if you don’t have, if you don’t have collectors or buyers of all the difference between good art, well, I can tell one story, it might explain a lot. And I did some articles, some of the art magazines, and then they asked me to do a book, but I just, you know, I knew it took a lot of time to do it. I just didn’t want to do it, and and I asked the editor, I says, “Is it true that the bad art books sell better than the good ones? And she said, “Yeah, unfortunately, so because people can identify with the bad work, so that’s why you can see god-awful paintings in a gallery, the worst art outselling the good art.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:50

That’s heartbreaking,

Ned Mueller: 1:02:52

but it’s kind of true.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:54

Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 1:02:57

we, we don’t get around to the galleries like we used to, but geez, we go in there and we see some work in there that is just horrible, and they’re getting outrageous prices for it, and the people buying it, they just, they don’t know the difference.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:18

Yeah, you’re not the first person who mentions that, that buyers are less aware or educated about what makes good work, though I do have hope, because despite the internet being, you know, like the biggest rabbit hole ever, I do come across a lot of people who, at least, you know, they have the wherewithal and the critical thinking to come across an image and research about it and learn about the different art history periods and have a more nuanced interest than you know someone who basically, who just took a basic art course because they had to for credit, so I have some hope that the age of information could still enlighten some important people to be patrons of the arts.

Ned Mueller: 1:04:06

Yeah, and I don’t know, I look at, you know, traditional work, and the best markets that I’ve seen where people can flourish is the Western art, it’s very traditional, and I mean it’s when I, when I started Western art, it was there again. It was, it was ridiculous, you know? People were selling three-legged horses, and you know, people got all caught up in this Western thing. It was, it was crazy, and not so much anymore, but and I guess there’s, it’s always been that way, there’s always been a lot of bad art cells, I know out of. And years ago, and he was, he would paint a farmhouse, and then have trees on each side, and he’d vary the trees, and maybe the farm, and he says, you know, Ned, I don’t want to get any better, because I’m selling everything I do, and now the risk of getting better was too, too scary for him. That’s probably a poor analogy, but it’s,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:05:36

oh no, but it’s, it’s interesting, because it does fall under, you know, if you are doing the same process on repeats without changing the process, and you always get the same results, then your gallery knows what to expect, and galleries like that. But when you’re an artist who is also doing it, you know, in the I want to get better, I want to explore type of sense, or I don’t want to, I get bored just doing the same thing over and over. I think it, I don’t want to say gets punished, but some galleries don’t quite like change because they want a product

Ned Mueller: 1:06:20

in a way to keep the doors open, but yeah, years ago I had interviewed with some guy, they told me I was unmarketable because I do too many different things in different means, I understood it, you know, got collectors in the rat, they gotta sell stuff to keep the doors open. That’s also why some of these galleries keep some of this bad art there, because it sells, you know, and it keeps the doors open. That’s what they told me. The worst artist brought in a million dollars last year, so you know there’s a true story, and it was he was the worst artist in the gallery, but he was their best seller.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:13

Maybe I need to lower the bar.

Ned Mueller: 1:07:16

Well, yeah, I would

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:20

not. I would be, I would be betraying myself if I did that. That’s awful.

Ned Mueller: 1:07:25

No.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:26

Oh man, that is.. I think we need to discuss something a little less bleak, and

Ned Mueller: 1:07:36

I may be a little too cynical.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:39

Oh no, but you have, of course, the experience to see, you know, the perspective long term of how things have shifted, so it’s absolutely natural. But I did want to ask, oh, learn more

Ned Mueller: 1:07:52

stories, it’ll depress everybody.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:57

I mean, I would love to hear them, but, but yeah, I think it might be a little bit of a bummer for, yeah, but I did want to ask you in less bleak terms, do you have any advice for someone who wants to become a full-time artist?

Ned Mueller: 1:08:22

What are the 4p’s patience, perseverance, practice. What’s the other one? Okay, there’s four of them. Perseverance, yeah, we need that, you know, and like we say, learn how to draw. Don’t have to do the, the figure, you know? If you want to do landscapes or still lifes, you know, induce, do something you love. No, find something you love, because, and you can get excited about, because if you’re not excited about your pain, it’s going to show, and so, yeah, and you think those things would be easy, they’re not. Some people don’t know what they want to paint, and so try different things, try to get, if you’re going to go to an art school, or take workshops, or get them, you know, it just makes sense. Find somebody that you can relate to, that’s, you know, that sincerely wants to help you. I mostly teach because I love it, you know. I know it’s not all about money, I love it, and I have to charge something, so I charge reasonably prices anyways. Uh, and if you do teach well, you know it’s a way to make money, but it’s, and I’ll be better if you love to teach. If you want to help people, you want to sincerely see them get better, but yeah. and it’s, you know, if you have to take commissions or you have to do things or things you may not want to do, but they’re going to pay you well. Do it when you’re starting out, you do what you have to do, you Um, let’s see what else I can’t, you know, do studies, you know, do two studies that you’re sometimes just do to learn color, just do color studies, because if you’re trying to color studies, design, and all that, it’s hard to do, so kind of separate them to go outside and just have fun learning about color, maybe go out and start thinking more about composition and design, and you know very few people can do it all at once.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:22

Yeah, I I think that’s very sound advice.

Ned Mueller: 1:11:26

Yeah, probably just about everybody else would give the same.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:31

I mean, there’s a common thread that a lot of people mentioned, but I think even if it is very similar advice, you gotta hear it a million times. I mean, you hear it once, you think, yeah, yeah, I get it. And then you hear it again, you’re like, I think I get it. And then eventually you’re like, I, wow, I need.. I didn’t think about that, even though you’ve already heard it a million times.

Ned Mueller: 1:11:59

And if you think three or four people are saying the same thing, maybe different words. Gosh, there must be something to it, you know. And these people are doing pretty good work, and you know, and you actually don’t have to be a great artist to be a great teacher either.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:20

Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 1:12:21

people say that, but I don’t, I don’t think so. I think there’s other things involved, and no patience, and relating, and

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:35

yeah, listening, being a good listener as well. Yeah, totally,

Ned Mueller: 1:12:41

even if you’re just getting one person you know that you know that knows something and you know will take you out painting or have you over the studio or talk to you or give you some critiques that’s another thing start a critique group. I’ve always been in a critique group for years, and they’re really helpful. You just need to start maybe four or five people, and then you go to each other’s house, and you bring something to eat, and you critique three or four paintings, or whatever you got each time, that that helps you just got to be Gary. Don’t get somebody in there that’s going to dominate the thing and always have their opinion getting out there. So, yeah, so that key groups are useful, and you make good friends, and

Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:48

yeah, yeah, yeah, and you can always bounce ideas, and and you make discoveries about your work, because you know you have someone else looking at it and having a different opinion, because it can be really lonely when you’re in your studio, and sometimes you keep hitting a wall with a problem, and you, there’s no other way to get around at them by showing it to someone else to see what they think, and you can show it to your, you know, to someone who maybe doesn’t have much to do with painting, but they might not be able to resolve it as well as someone who can see it with the eyes that with educated eyes, so to speak, you know. Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 1:14:30

and gosh, what’s I gonna say? Yeah, you know, gosh, I forgot, you know, art groups are kind of nice to belong to. They can be supportive. I know some people enjoy the organization, some people don’t. And, and I was president of. A couple sometimes find out your friends were the ones that abused it more than anything. You thought just because they’re friendly didn’t have to get something in on time or do this or that. Yeah, become an officer, you sure find out a lot about human nature.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:15:25

Oh, yeah, even just, you know, living your life, you find out a lot about human nature. Yeah, but, but I also wanted to ask you, do you have any upcoming shows or workshops or Zoom classes that you would like to tell us about.

Ned Mueller: 1:15:44

Yeah, far shows I’m mostly, you know, some invitational shows around I submit to, because, like, I’m on designated master with oil painters of America and American Impressive Society, so you’re supposed to enter as many as you can. The nice thing that being a master, they don’t screen your work, they take, so yeah, so you, it’s, it’s too tempting to put in something that you should put in, so you got to be careful that I entered juried shows a lot, because there’s some that they don’t have, like, so many jury shows you have to do it in the last three five years or something. So some of these online shows they don’t have a limitation. So I’ve got paintings from 40 years ago, and when they first started doing those, I entered them, they’re all, and I at one time actually there was somebody keeping track of that after about five years, and I was number one in the country of winning these online jury shows, mainly because they didn’t have a deadline, and I was entering shows I did some of my best paintings, I did 3040 years ago. Now some were one of them just clamped down and decided, well, they’re going to stop that because other artists were complaining. Well, I told them, well, wait, yeah, wait till you get older, you know, and you know you may not be able to do as much or do them as great as you did 3040 years ago, and so I mentioned that to him.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:17:56

Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 1:17:57

anyways, yeah, everybody has their perspective on things, so I entered those, and anyways, I, I still win some, and last year I got the, you can see it on the wall poster of the Modern Impressionist, but I got, I called it Best Artist of the Year, yeah, hardly. you know, already the best, but you know it’s still nice to get, you know, 5000 bucks.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:18:31

Yeah,

Ned Mueller: 1:18:32

anyways, the other thing is I have a regular class online class on Wednesdays from 10 to one Pacific Daylight Time, and that’s just work on value studies, color studies, and all things related to art, and that goes on year round, except like in the summer, the summer were taken off in July and August, and we’ve been doing it for years and years, and then I do other workshops. Last week, and I just had an online expressive portrait workshop drawing, and I always limited to 12 students. I just don’t believe in having a lot of students, not fair to them and not fair to me. And then I’m doing a two day plein air workshop on jury shows. Right now I’m in the middle during two shows and yeah, and my website has all this stuff listed, so I don’t do as many as I used to, but yeah, and but I, I like a. Entering jury shows or shows, because I’m an artist, I like people to see my work, and I get an award here and there, and so, yeah, and, yeah, and I once in a while I can still do a halfway decent painting when I, when I’m, when I’m feeling pretty good, and yeah, that’s pretty much it. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:20:38

Well, if someone wants to maybe join one of your Zoom classes or wants to see more of your work, where can they go

Ned Mueller: 1:20:47

w w w.net mueller.com m u e l l e r. Yeah, great, but yeah, the workshops fill up pretty fast because we limit it to 12 people, and that’s nice. I have some really loyal students that have been doing taking my class for like five or six years, you know, it’s amazing, and I get people from Paul, not all of the, but around the world, Mexico, Shanghai, England, you know. So, yeah, so I got a pretty good life.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:21:36

Yeah, sounds very comforting to be able to, you know, work on paintings that you want to work on, and still have contact with other artists, even if it’s through, you know, workshops, and of course, your wife being an artist also helps. Yeah, yeah, no, I’ll also include all your links in the show notes as well, for, you know, our listeners, if they want to immediately go to your website and sign up, or check out when your next signups are. They can go visit your links. I

Ned Mueller: 1:22:07

got a newsletter. Join my newsletter, do Instagram and Facebook, and other thing I encourage people to do is do Pinterest. Pinterest, I mean, there’s just great stuff there, you know. Whatever your tastes are, or styles, you know, start your own page, and it grows, and you figure out how you know they start sending you things because they find out what you like, and they send you similar stuff, and trouble is, boy, it’s hard to get off of it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:22:49

Yeah, I am a regular Pinterest user, so I totally understand.

Ned Mueller: 1:22:54

Yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:22:56

yeah,

Ned Mueller: 1:22:57

all the social things can be pretty addictive.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:02

Yep,

Ned Mueller: 1:23:04

yeah. So be careful. I’m not the best example, but yeah, I follow my own advice and do it less.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:17

Yeah, I will also go out and touch some grass, as they say. Yeah, but thank you so much, Ned. This was a very fascinating conversation. Very, there’s a lot to digest in terms of, you know, my hopes and dreams for the future of art, but I will follow your advice. Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank.

Today, we have a post today by Shiv Sengupta, the man and the mind behind the publication Dark Dawn.

Shiv is the Author of the Advaitaholics Anonymous series of books. His avant-garde, no-nonsense approach to the existential questions of life has captured the minds of readers across the globe. With a balance of caustic wit and profound insight, his writing throws down the gauntlet for each person to confront reality by themselves, without the assurances of authority figures, the dictates of dogma and the comfort of cultural belief systems.

Clint’s note: Shiv is one of the few writers whom I carefully read every single essay he posts and I believe today’s essay has great value for people from all walks of life but, especially, for those of us pursuing creativity and the truth of the self, which, in the end, are the same pursuit.

I highly recommend you subscribe directly to Shiv’s newsletter Dark Dawn:

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To prevent duplicate content issues, this article will be locked in two days for paying members only. After that point you may read this article on Shiv’s Substack site here (if you are a paid subscriber of Dark Dawn)

Feature Article:

The Homecoming

“Your recent essays have left me with a question I can’t seem to shake.

You often point back to the ordinary — going to work, raising children, paying bills — as though these aren’t distractions from truth but expressions of it.

But if that’s the case, why does ordinary life so often feel... flat?

Why does my mind keep searching for something more profound, more spiritual, more meaningful, if reality is supposedly already complete as it is?

Is the search itself part of the problem, or is there something genuine that it is trying to discover?”

.

***

.

The search isn’t a problem. You seek because you are haunted by an unshakeable memory of what it was like.

A memory that lives not as an idea or an image - but more as a feeling that resides deep within your bones. That feeling of what ‘home’ felt like. When home was not just the four walls around you but being itself. When the divine was as much a reality as the mundane. When the sacred shone from within every seashell, from underneath rocks, in your mother’s laughter, even in the hurt you felt when your best friend moved away.

Your search is really a homecoming. And, I know - so many have pointed to the fact that home is where we already are and that there is nowhere to really go, because we’ve never really left. I’ve said it plenty too. But simply acknowledging that intellectually falls flat, doesn’t it? Because it’s not some physical place you are in search of. It’s that feeling of home. Of such existential safety and warmth, that you feel free to simply be as you are. Where you no longer need to be on your ‘best behaviour’. Where you don’t need to ensure whether others will like you or accept you because you are already unconditionally accepted.

That is what you are seeking, isn’t it? The freedom to be without needing to justify your own existence. To see unconditional love and acceptance reflected back to you. To know that even if monsters come looking for you - you will be held, you will be protected, you will be safe.

But how many adults truly feel that way? How many feel totally at home in this big, bad world?

No, this world doesn’t feel like home - it feels more like an orphanage. And we, its 8 billion occupants - children of this planet - were orphaned the moment that native connection was severed and we were cast into a world of abstraction.

There was a reason you paused to pick up stones when you were a child. Back then you could still feel into the spirit of things. Each stone had a unique spirit - and you knew this even if you couldn’t express it in words. That is why it was worth putting it in your pocket. You knew there was no other stone like it in the whole world. And when you jumped in a puddle - you were very careful to pay attention to what the puddle said to you. Each puddle said something different - often something uniquely hilarious - which is why you laughed so loudly each time. Jumping in puddles was like going to a standup comedy show.

Trees were worthy of love. Frogs were worthy of friendship. Clouds were worthy of admiration. A simple piece of paper was worthy of your greatest masterpiece.

That was the world you once lived in. It was a sacred world. Sacred - because you could feel the spirit of all that you encountered. There was never a rush to get anywhere, because rushing would mean losing out.

Yet, the grownups around you seemed differently oriented. They seemed to live in a different kind of world. When you showed them the rocks you had collected, you were introducing them to your new friends, but they smiled distractedly and said condescending things like,

“Very nice, honey!”

That’s when you realized, that they lived in a different world than you did. They lived in the world of things - but not the spirit of things.

And even in your little child mind - you mused on what it would be like if the rocks in your pocket were no longer alive. If they no longer had personalities. If they no longer spoke to you. What must it be like to live in a dead world?

What you didn’t quite realize, at the time, was that you were being prepared to inhabit just such a world. As you grew older - the adults, the schools, the sports organizations, the systems that supported you - incentivized one thing and one thing only. The knowledge of the world of things.

Your perception into the spirit of things was altogether ignored. You were even punished for it. When the mathematics teacher was drilling you with your timetables - you noticed the little ant who had ventured onto your desk and was tentatively seeking a place of shelter, and you gently allowed him to climb onto your hand. But that moment of friendship was labelled ‘a distraction’ by your teacher and you were sent to the principal’s office for it.

You were constantly told you needed to ‘smarten up’ and to ‘learn the way the real world works’ and this confused you. Because you had always known how the world worked and had never once doubted it. Except the world you knew so well was that of the spirit of things. This ‘real world’ the grownups kept talking about was the dead one - the world of things. And from your vantage point there was very little that was real about it. It seemed mostly like grownup make-believe.

Yet, as the years wore on, and the more you were incentivized by those around you - your parents, your teachers, your peers, your professors, your bosses, your mentors, your leaders - the more you came to inhabit the world of things, and the more you lost your connection to the spirit of things.

Rocks became inanimate objects. Frogs became noisy amphibians. Shells became things you could cut your feet on if you weren’t careful.

Intimacy. Connection. Relationship. These became unnecessary. Even redundant.

In the world of things only one thing mattered. Accumulation. The capacity to trade. The more you had, the more opportunities you created to have more.

Value was not something inherent but something manufactured and accrued.

Even human relationships became a mechanism to leverage power and access.

Whereas once your pockets could only hold a few stones - now you could fill your cupboards with them. And not just any stones. Precious ones that you couldn’t just find in a forest but that miners in faraway lands would have to dig deep into the earth to retrieve. You even displayed a few of these stones on your finger - or on the face of your new watch.

But no matter how many you accumulated. Not a single one spoke to you.

That world of dead things that the grownups in your life once seemed to inhabit is where you found yourself now.

How can one feel alive when surrounded with dead things? When the people we meet are more stone-like than the stones that we once carried in our pockets? When every creature, every event, every person, every experience is turned into an object, then a commodity?

When your house feels less like a home and more like a mausoleum? When social introductions sound more like eulogies? When even your desire to connect with something deeper is outsourced to religious institutions and middlemen that translate the spirit of things into the language of objects - another goal to be achieved, another transaction to be brokered.

You wonder why ordinary life feels so flat. It is not life but your perspective that has been flattened.

You began the spiritual search thinking you are seeking something extraordinary, metaphysical, divine, even supernatural. But you are not.

That is just what the world of the spirit of things looks like from the limited imagination of a flattened mind. To a mind that has yet to be flattened - the ordinary is extraordinary, the physical is interwoven with the metaphysical, the divine radiates from the mundane, and the supernatural is as natural as any other phenomenon.

This is why seeking rarely leads to finding. You cannot find what was never lost. But you can remember what was forgotten.

That existential discomfort you feel is a necessary catalyst.

Nisargadatta once said, “The mind creates the abyss. The heart crosses it.”

The abyss is the chasm that exists between the world of things and that of the spirit of things. An abyss that has been created by our capacity for abstracting our own existence.

The feeling of flatness, of meaninglessness you feel is evidence that you have entered into that abyss and are fully inhabiting it. And the truth is - there is no going back. The heart is crossing the abyss. The homecoming has begun.

Odysseus is called home to Ithaca. But that does not mean the journey is an easy one.

Because the world will not understand your journey. It will still demand of you. It will still transact with you. It will still punish you when you fail to show up.

Circe, the Sirens, Cyclops, Poseidon - each will come to you in their various forms to seduce or terrify you. In the feelings of being unworthy, of being left behind, of not living up to your potential, of worrying that the world is falling apart - or alternatively in the sense of superiority, of achievement, of ‘finally making it’, of being better than.

Each fear or lust will whisper in your ear, “return to the world of things and give up this childish fantasy of home”. It will tell you you are being distracted. That you have important things to do. You have impacts to make. You have better things to do with your time.

It will call you foolish, self-centered, lazy, unambitious, unworthy, a fraud, weak, a drain on society.

These - and not supernatural monsters - are the ones you must face. For you will recognize in them the very voices that flattened you in the first place. The very fears that stole you away from the spirit of things and set up your residence in the world of things.

They are the same voices that coerce you to stay - through fear, guilt, rage, shame, sympathy, or promises of glory, power, and reward.

And be sure the rewards will come - when the punishments cease to work. Praise from others, the validation you have always been seeking, power, influence, fame, prestige, wealth, sexual attraction - it will all come. The Sirens’ songs are so beautiful and haunting that even the most stalwart are forced to pause and are drawn to lay down and slumber.

It is not your will that will overcome these. It is the memory of home that still lives within your bones. That memory is so powerful that it will not let you rest.

You must have faith in the spirit of things. In its power to draw you homeward, no matter what obstacles stand in the way.

Don’t be in a rush to arrive either. Because ‘rushing’ belongs to the world of things. To that world where objects assume a hierarchy of importance. And time is how we assign that importance. But in the spirit of things there can be no rushing - because there is no importance. There is no hierarchy.

The spirit of a stone is on par with the spirit of a saint. It is all the same spirit.

There is no time in that world. There is only this single eternal instant. You must learn to recognize this instant and what it feels like to inhabit it - or how else will you recognize when you have reached the shores of home?

Most crucially, don’t expect home to look like a happy place. Don’t expect it to look like a place of eternal sunshine, or a place where pain and suffering never visit. If you want to live in such places - then I suggest you succumb to the songs of those Sirens. They will lull you into any kind of dream that you want.

Home will look just like any other place. Messy at times. Ordinary. In need of repair. But it is not its appearance that makes it home. It is not the things within it that will look any different.

It is that those things are no longer just things.

They are alive.

They witness. They listen. They speak.

A world in which you no longer live in isolation talking to yourself.

But one in which everything exists in perpetual conversation.

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PS — As I said at the top of this issue, I highly recommend you subscribe directly to Shiv’s newsletter, Dark Dawn.

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PPS — This article explores, in its own way, the mystery of Art—we must learn, as artists, to see the aliveness of reality and there, we find Truth revealed. We must find, in short, our way home and perhaps, just perhaps, if we craft our art carefully and truthfully, we can show others, also, the way home.

One of the reasons I built FASO is because I believe art is important, artists are important, and the work you’re called to create deserves to be taken seriously. We are all sharing “miracles of existence” through our art.

Yes, at FASO, we build professional artist websites. Yes, we talk about marketing. Yes, we give artists tools to present their work, tell their stories, reach collectors, and sell more art.

But that is the how.

The why is that we love art, and we want to push back against a world that too often treats art like content and artists like algorithms. The modern world denigrates Beauty in preference of profit and efficiency. At FASO, we hold Beauty sacred.

So we don’t just host artist websites. We promote artists. We feature their work. We try, in our own small way, to help more art find the people who need it. And that informs everything we do and build.

If that resonates with you, we’d be honored to have you join us.

Get Started with FASO for Free

This piece originally appeared on Clint’s personal newsletter, The Universal Riddle, here. We will be locking this piece in a few days to prevent duplicate content issues.

This is not a long read, but it’s a tad longer than my weekday pieces. Pour a coffee, or something stronger, put on Bohemian Rhapsody, and read it as a listening guide to hear the old song deeper way than you’ve never heard it before. Before we get into the article…a request:

People hear Bohemian Rhapsody and often assume it’s a song about guilt, madness, murder or sexuality.

But unsurprisingly, I hear something deeper. I see something more spiritual—I see a map.

I see, hidden within six minutes of music, a compressed mystery school, an entire spiritual journey—the death of the false self, the dark courtroom of the mind, the descent into madness, and, finally, the awakening into a freedom that brings peace.

And Queen tells us exactly who this journey belongs to.

The clue is in the title: Bohemian Rhapsody.

Bohemian refers to La Bohème, one of the world’s most beloved operas. It tells the story of impoverished artists living outside society’s expectations in pursuit of beauty, love, and truth. The “bohemian” is more than just an “eccentric.” He is an artist; an outsider; the one who refuses to live by the script handed to him by the crowd.

And Bohemian Rhapsody, in homage to La Bohème, tells the spiritual journey of the artist as an epic opera. It is a rhapsody—a word that means “woven song”—that weaves; that “stitches together,” the different episodes of suffering and joy that ultimately liberate the artist’s soul.

Beneath the song’s shifting genres and surreal imagery lies a profound spiritual initiation story. It traces the path every true artist must eventually walk: the collapse of the false self, the confrontation with the judgment and fear of The Shadow, and the discovery of a freedom that can only be found on the other side of psychological death.

What follows is my reading of Bohemian Rhapsody as a spiritual path through art, revealed in a single song…

ACT I: AWAKENING FROM THE MATRIX

Awakening is glimpsed. The Bohemian suddenly sees something clearly: He sees that the life he’s built based upon society’s programming isn’t fulfilling and he begins to wonder if it was all fake.

Then, the crushing weight of truth lands, and his false ego collapses like a “landslide,” and he realizes he can no longer hide from his true Self. And yet he despairs; he sees no escape from his unfulfilling reality.

He tells himself to stop living blindly; to look away from earthly, societal expectations and seek a higher truth.

He has glimpsed surrender. He knows something within himself has broken. He sees clearly now that he is “poor in spirit.” But he isn’t looking for sympathy. He’s searching for truth.

With this understanding he has glimpsed the volatile, unstable nature of the human ego and understands that he must let that go, and that living otherwise is to stay on the hedonistic treadmill where one is constantly shifting between temporary happiness (“little high”) and deep insecurity (“little low”).

In this desperate condition, under the crushing weight of his reality, he despairs, “nothing really matters to me.” And in this moment, at his lowest low, he experiences a moment of surrender that foreshadows his ultimate true surrender. He begins to let go of the rigid need to control his life. He sees nothing worth living for, and so, in a way he gives up.

ACT II: KILLING THE FALSE IDENTITY

In this, the central metaphor of the song, The Bohemian has not committed a physical crime. He sees now the pain that his false self creates for himself and those around him. He’s learning that, when he’s “triggered,” by others; by his programming that he must “pull the trigger” into himself instead of projecting his shadow outward onto others. In each triggering moment, he puts the “gun” against his own false ego and “pulls the trigger,” killing “the man” he was, so that he can see reality with discernment and act in accordance with his true Self.

The ego, the false self, never permanently dies. In the next moment, it screams back in regret. It mourns the loss of the safe, predictable, comfortable, conformist life it used to have. It laments that he’s “thrown it all away.”

He realizes that choosing personal authenticity breaks the hearts of those who loved the “fake” version of himself. He didn’t mean to hurt them; he doesn’t want to hurt his mama, but he must be who he must be. He tells her that his false self isn’t likely returning and to let the ghost of his past identity go: “to carry on.”

He’s reached the point of no return in his spiritual experience. The ego-death process has gained too much momentum to stop. He now feels the actual, physical toll of acute psychological stress of a spiritual crisis. His body is “aching all the time.” He’s beginning what we call the dark night of the soul.

Even if he must detach from social circles built on superficial, ego-driven terms, he’s realized what he needs most: to face the Truth.

The narrator is terrified of the empty void left behind when the old self dies, but before the new self is fully formed. Everyone who’s awakened tells us that the process truly does feel like death itself. He now enters fully the Dark Night of the Soul, which plays out as a terrible courtroom in his mind.

ACT III: THE INTERNAL COURTROOM OF THE MIND

This is the most fascinating section of the song. It represents the chaotic, panicking mind attempting to use its old religious and societal conditioning to scare the narrator back into submission. It reminds me vaguely of “The Grand Inquisitor” chapter of Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov.

He looks inward from a new perspective and sees only a shadow of a person; the hollow shell left behind by a life built on lies: the false self.

He sees this truth, but the ego hijacks his thoughts, becoming an internal critic who mocks him, calling him a foolish, cowardly clown (“a scaramouche”) who is just dancing the “fandango”—a clown performing yet another ridiculous performance. The ego is attempting to hijack the awakening process in what we sometimes call spiritual bypassing.

The ego now calls upon his false conception of God, the one society and religion implanted in his mind. The ego warns him of “thunderbolt and lighting,” sending sudden, terrifying shockwaves of subconscious guilt and fear crashing through his psyche.

The various parts of The Bohemian’s mind are now roiling in a storm of conflict. He calls upon “Galileo”—the figure who stood for truth against a society and church that labeled him a heretic.

“Galileo” (representing the unchangeable truth) fights against “Figaro.” Figaro is the master of disguises; he assists those who wish to keep hiding a secret life. Galileo fights for the truth, Figaro fights for the “Scaramouche,” asking The Bohemian to put the mask back on. Mercury utilized a genius method to sonically capture the torture of endless mental thought loops on tape: He insisted upon 180 separate vocal overdubs, with “Galileo” sung repeatedly by the trio four hours upon end to create a towering choral effect. The process was so intense that their 24-track analog tape was run over the recording heads so many times that it became nearly transparent.

After Galileo and Figaro, “Magnifico” appears. Magnifico is the false God society has taught The Bohemian to fear: A powerful judge who sees right through it all. The one who will sentence him to burn in hell.

But the terrifying glare of Magnifico is just another game of his ego. The ego is running his mind through terrifying thought loops to keep him from true Self-realization. We’ve all been there.

The Bohemian’s inner child now begs for mercy from its own hyper-critical thoughts, while another part of the mind rationalizes the old behavior. This is fascinating symbolically because his Self is now beginning to split and observe itself, seeding the path to his ultimate freedom. The “poor boy” is the vulnerable, conditioned self—the persona.

And then the chorus of voices rushes in: “Spare him his life...” In other words, don’t let the old identity die. From the ego’s perspective, the “monstrosity” is the coming transformation of awakening.

His soul now pleads with the ego’s old programming for permission to be free: will you let me go?

A brutal civil war is being fought in his psyche. The deep-seated religious dogmas and family expectations assert themselves, they yell “Bismillah!”—Arabic for “in the name of God!”1

The false god in his mind refuses to release his true Self from the old conditioning. The “Galileo” in his mind tries several times, pleading, “let him go!” Have we not all been trapped in terrifying thought loops like this that refuse to let us go?

The Bohemian is now on the verge of insanity. He doesn’t know what to do. He finally breaks out of the loop, yelling “No! no! no!” in an absolute frenzy of cognitive dissonance as his old mind completely unravels.

He now regresses, seeking childhood comfort. I imagine The Bohemian curled up on the floor now, sobbing, in the fetal position. He begs any maternal authority figure to release him from his mental prison.

He’s now at the peak of internal guilt and shame. The Bohemian is finally facing what he’s been avoiding. He’s facing his Shadow. And it feels like fate. It feels like death. The old conditioning has convinced him that breaking the rules makes him fundamentally broken, evil, and damned.

In this broken state, he accepts his condemnation to “hell” as “truth” and finally turns, to fully face, and accept, his Shadow. He faces all that he has previously repressed.

The Bohemian finds the courage to face the “devil put aside” for him. And then, in stopping the repression, and facing the Shadow, something amazing happens…

ACT IV: THE FURIOUS REBELLION OF AWAKENING

The voices stop.

The heavy rock, headbanging, awesome guitar solo hits.

Everyone who’s ever listened to this song feels the shift in this moment. The Truth, the real Truth, as I’ve written before, appears as a kind of internal felt music.

And that’s how it hits in Bohemian Rhapsody. Anyone in touch with their soul can’t help but feel “yes!” when the guitar starts. It’s the moment where we all start headbanging.

This is the explosive breakthrough of the true, conscious warrior spirit in his soul.

His True Self comes to the forefront.

This realization is beyond words. It is beyond language. That’s why his true awakening only happens once he completely leaves the “courtroom of the mind” of the previous section.

Every spiritual tradition teaches the wisdom of practices that help one to transcend thoughts.

This is the coveted flow state that every artist is familiar with. This is how we transcend the courtroom of the mind—through art. When we headbang, we join in that flow state with the artist. We feel an echo of the deeper flow of The Muse that inspired the solo when the guitar player recorded it. We feel the energy of The Muse to whom the guitarist gave a voice called music.

This is the power of artistic creation.

And this moment of enlightenment, even if temporary, is the moment when the internal voices stop. The flow state releases tremendous energy and creativity. And this song illustrates, dramatically, why creativity is a relief valve.

Now seeing clearly, the narrator’s soul stops pleading with his mind and starts fighting back. He’s emerging from the dark night. His psyche has become integrated and moves from the Divine bliss of self into action in the world. He is “resurrected” and returns to the world with agency.

The solo represented virtuosic innocence, but in this next section comes the return. The Bohemian brings the master’s skill back into the world. In art terms, he’s leaving the mystery where he communed with The Muse, and he is now actively creating his artwork, expressing outwardly what The Muse inspired inwardly. He “picked up his cross” when he accepted the “devil set aside for him”, the solo was the trans-egoic time in “the tomb” and he now returns to the world, “transfigured” into something greater…

The narrator aggressively confronts his internal mental judges, the programming of his culture, and the programming of his religion. He rejects their right to punish him for being his authentic self.

He calls out the conditional nature of societal love, which only accepted him when he wore the approved masks, even while his true self was dying inside. A real love would accept his true Self. Only the false conditional love would “leave him to die.”

He reclaims his personal power and self-worth. He laughs at the courtroom now, the Scaramouche, the Galileo, the Figaro, even the Magnifico hold no power over him anymore. Because he finally uncovered the true secret to Self-realization, and it’s so simple that we all miss it:

The simple secret is this: He leaves the mental courtroom of thought entirely.

The Bohemian realizes he doesn’t need to win the mental arguments. He just needed to leave the entire toxic system behind. He leaves the insidious thought loops and escapes the mind to the place all sages tell us to go: the present.

It was living in the present moment, enjoying the headbanging, ever-changing guitar solo of life that brought his salvation. We don’t want peace of mind, we want peace from mind.

ACT V: THE PEACE OF ENLIGHTENMENT

The music now slows to a calm, gentle piano melody that echoes the beginning of the song.

The storm in his mind has completely cleared. The battle is over. The clouds have dissipated. The sun is shining again.

The Bohemian makes the ultimate Self-realization of enlightenment. The rigid constructs of the ego—social pressure, guilt, sin, and pride—are revealed to be entirely meaningless illusions. He sees that enlightment is ludicrously simple, “anyone can see.”

The narrator has found absolute peace and freedom from internal, and societal, judgement. Since the old rules no longer matter to him, he can finally build a real, authentic life, in accordance with his soul.

It’s a deeply personal statement of individual autonomy.

The Bohemian has finally achieved the wisdom of Solomon who, in Ecclesiastes, reminded us “all is breath, all is wind.” The narrator in the song too, accepts that “life is wind” that blows “this way and that” and he’s ready to face life, authentically, in peaceful surrender to the universe. He no longer forces a false identity; he simply flows authentically with reality.

There’s a famous Zen saying that says, “Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.”

The song echoes this idea: at the beginning, when The Bohemian was at his lowest point of depression, in his false self, and didn’t care what happened, he lamented that, “nothing really matters, any way the wind blows.”

But now this line has become his ultimate anthem of freedom.

“Nothing really matters” is despair at the beginning, but it is liberation at the end.

Whichever way the wind blows can’t take his liberation away, he has found, and rests in, The Sovereign Artist within. And that changes everything, even while chopping wood, and carrying water.

So, clear your mind. I’ve posted the video below. Take six minutes and listen to Bohemian Rhapsody now and hear it like you’ve never heard it before. Don’t forget to sing along. Don’t be shy. Head bang during the guitar solo. Your soul with thank you.

PS — As an example of the enduring inspiration of Bohemian Rhapsody, watch this 2025 alternative version, performed by a flash mob in Paris. It features an eleven-year-old guitar prodigy named Olly Pearson. Olly shreds every note of the song, and nails the head-banging solo, perfectly, to the amazement of the crowd. All of the performers are world-class. I highly recommend it if you’d like to bring some joy into your day: Watch it here.

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Our confusion about art, and a great many other things, stems from the modern, materialistic, idea that there is only one big “economy.” And we’ve been confused about art for over a century.

The great “glamour of forgetting” started around the time of Marcel Duchamp’s urinal being presented as “art,” and “the great forgetting” accelerated from there, eventually causing the public to forget the deep magic of true art. But, our confusion, all along, has been in thinking art belongs to the market, when it actually belongs to the soul. This is why the modern man struggles to define what art is.

Collectively, we no longer understand art because we view it only through the lens of market-based materialism, which, in reality, is only one possible perspective

Fortunately for us; however, there isn’t just one master “economy.” There is another economy that you were never taught to see.

There are, in fact, two economies, and they are vastly different.

Let’s call them the following: the soul-economy and the market-economy.

We may have suppressed our knowledge of the soul-economy, but the desire to participate in it still simmers in every human heart. Deep down, we all know that some things are made for the sale, and that other, more important things, are made for the soul.

Art is made first for the soul, not the sale.

And most of the pain artists feel around marketing comes from confusing these two economies.

The true artist must choose the soul-economy; for “no one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Mammon.” Nor can you truly serve Art and Mammon.

In the market-economy, value is measured by what others will pay.

But, in the soul-economy, value is measured by what the creator was willing to give.

When creation requires no sacrifice, no discipline, no transformation, the viewer’s soul senses the absence of spiritual weight.

Art, music, and writing—these are all works of love and they are meant to be gifts of love in the economy of the soul. That is why the worst thing an artist can do is “sell out” their soul to the market.

Don’t misunderstand: I am not suggesting that artists cannot sell their artworks or make a living from their art. Selling is not the same thing as selling-out.

Selling-out involves creating primarily for the market-economy with the goal of getting. Art must be made as a gift of the soul, for the purpose of giving. In a proper art transaction, the purchaser’s money is viewed a reciprocal gift back to the artist.

The “trick” is that artists must learn to stand at the edge and straddle these two vastly different economies.

The market-economy forms the horizontal beam while the soul-economy forms the vertical pole and, together, they construct the cross upon which the true artist must sacrifice himself voluntarily. His Art must be his true passion, and our passions are those things we are willing to sacrifice ourselves for. As always, the key that balances the two is found where they cross, at our heart, and that key is constructed with love.

Learning the difference between the two economies will enhance both the artist’s peace of mind and her pocketbook. Knowing the difference between these two economies will help an artist to not feel rejected when a soulful piece doesn’t sell. And, it will help her understand why some pieces sell easily and others do not.

The artist’s challenge is not to reject the market. The challenge is to keep it in its proper place.

The soul comes first and thus, the Art comes first.

Then, once the work exists, you need a sane and honest way for people to discover it, understand it, follow it, inquire about it, and buy it.

That is the kind of structure FASO is built to provide.

So today, take one practical step in the market economy that honors the soul economy:

Make sure the available works on your FASO website are presented clearly for collectors. Because, believe it or not, collectors also enjoy and view art through the lens of the soul-economy. Think about the last time you wept while listening to music. I’ve seen collectors do that with visual art. Your art matters.

So let’s look at how to build a website that honors the sacredness of your art.

Here’s what I suggest:

1. Start by uploading no more than about 20 pieces. Don’t overwhelm people.

2. If you have more than 20 works, group them into 3-5 collections (such as portraits, landscapes, and still-lifes, for example).

3. Make it easy for collectors to support you by presenting each artwork with a Title, size, and purchase price. If you use FASO, make sure to connect Stripe or Paypal and to enable ecommerce so that people can easily purchase from you. You’d be surprised at how many artists make it difficult to actually purchase.

4. For FASO members only—when you join FASO, and upload 20 pieces and add your bio, we feature you in our new member newsletter which goes out to nearly 70,000 art collectors and lovers. That’s the first of the many marketing channels you gain when you move your website to FASO.

Creating a great art website is not “selling out.” This is creating a sacred space, that you control, that presents your art on the internet without the noise and rage of big tech’s algorithms. We’ll discuss how to get people to your site in upcoming emails.

Let us know what you think and how you honor the sacredness of your art in your online efforts in the comments:

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Creatively,

Clint Watson
FASO Founder

What does a lifetime of painting teach you?

If you ask Sarkis Antikajian, the answer isn’t fame, perfect technique, or selling more artwork. It’s something much simpler: keep learning, stay curious, and enjoy the act of painting.

At 93 years old, Sarkis still paints nearly every day. Although he spent 35 years working as a pharmacist, his dream was always to become a full-time artist. When he retired in 1994, he finally had the chance to devote himself completely to painting—and he hasn’t stopped since.

During his conversation on the FASO Podcast, Sarkis shared decades of wisdom artists at every stage can relate to.

1. Enjoy the Process More Than the Result

It’s easy to get caught up in finishing a painting, making a sale, or wondering what other people will think. However, Sarkis believes those things matter far less than simply enjoying the work itself.

“Love the process. It’s not the outcome, it’s the process.” — Sarkis Antikajian

This mindset has kept him excited about painting for nearly eight decades. Every painting becomes another opportunity to learn instead of another test to pass.

2. Stay Curious, No Matter How Long You’ve Been Painting

You might expect someone who’s been painting for decades to feel like they’ve mastered it all, yet Sarkis feels exactly the opposite—he still considers himself a student.

“I am in an experimental mode all the time. I am in a learning mode all the time.”

Instead of repeating what already works, he looks for new ways to solve old problems. That’s what keeps his painting experience interesting.

3. Don’t Let Boredom Take Over

One of the biggest dangers for any artist isn’t failure—it’s boredom.

Painting the same subject the same way over and over eventually drains the excitement from creating.

“Boredom is a killer for the artist.”

Whether it’s switching mediums, experimenting with color, or simply looking at a familiar subject differently, Sarkis believes growth comes from trying something new.

4. Paint What Excites You

Artists often worry about what galleries want, what collectors expect, or what performs well online but Sarkis encourages artists to tune out that noise.

“Go with what you want to do and forget about what other people want you to do.”

When your work comes from genuine curiosity instead of outside pressure, it has a better chance of feeling honest—and that’s something viewers can recognize.

5. Financial Stability Gives You Room to Grow

One of Sarkis’ most practical pieces of advice had nothing to do with painting techniques.

He recommends having another source of income while you’re building your art career. His years as a pharmacist gave him the freedom to experiment without worrying whether every painting had to sell.

“Find some kind of income... so you’ll be able to experiment.”

Without the pressure to create only what sells, artists often discover their strongest work.

6. Paint Often—and Don’t Worry About Expensive Materials

Many artists wait until they have the perfect supplies before they really begin. Sarkis believes the opposite approach works better.

Paint often. Practice often. Learn from every painting.

“Paint a lot.”

If that means using inexpensive canvas or paper, that’s perfectly fine. The goal is to build experience, not protect expensive materials.

7. You Don’t Need to Travel Far to Find Inspiration

Some artists think they need dramatic landscapes or famous locations to create meaningful work. Sarkis spent years painting the scenery around his own home, finding something new every season.

“I see things that I’ve never seen before.”

The more closely you observe your surroundings, the more you realize there’s always something worth painting.

8. Don’t Let Your Style Become a Cage

Artists often hear they should stick to one style, one subject, or one recognizable look but Sarkis isn’t convinced that’s always good advice.

“This branding thing... you’re stuck with it.”

He believes trying different subjects and mediums helps artists continue growing. One area of painting often teaches lessons that carry into another and growth rarely happens by staying comfortable.

9. Never Stop Being a Student

Perhaps the most inspiring part of the conversation is that, even at 93, Sarkis doesn’t believe he’s finished learning.

Even today, he’s still experimenting, still sketching, and still asking questions.

“You have to stay young... I still like to learn.”

This attitude may be the real secret behind his remarkable career. It isn’t talent or success. Just an ongoing desire to keep discovering what’s possible.

Why the Journey Never Ends

Sarkis Antikajian’s story is a reminder that becoming an artist isn’t about reaching a finish line. It’s about building a lifelong relationship with creativity.

His advice is refreshingly simple: paint often, stay curious, and don't be afraid to experiment.

And most importantly, enjoy the process because if you love the act of creating, you’ll always have a reason to return to the studio tomorrow.

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PS — Note from Clint: One of the reasons I built FASO is because I believe art is important, artists are important, and the work you’re called to create deserves to be taken seriously. We are all sharing “miracles of existence” through our art.

Yes, at FASO, we build professional artist websites. Yes, we talk about marketing. Yes, we give artists tools to present their work, tell their stories, reach collectors, and sell more art.

But that is the how.

The why is that we love art, and we want to push back against a world that too often treats art like content and artists like algorithms. The modern world denigrates Beauty in preference of profit and efficiency. At FASO, we hold Beauty sacred.

So we don’t just host artist websites. We promote artists. We feature their work. We try, in our own small way, to help more art find the people who need it. And that informs everything we do and build.

If that resonates with you, we’d be honored to have you join us.

Get Started with FASO for Free

PPS — If you’re not ready to look at FASO, you can support our mission by simply clicking the heart icon at the top or bottom of this article. That helps us reach more artists and art lovers and helps us spread Beauty to a world that is desperate for it.

—Clint

Our use of AI in this article: Some of you may bristle at our use of AI for this, so we’d like to explain: Our beef with AI is primarily when it is used in a way that reduces opportunities for artists. Our goal, in the places we do utilize AI, is to use it in a way that supports human artists.

For example, at FASO, we do not train AI on your artwork for the purposes of using it to generate alternative images. We do use AI to protect your artwork from scrapers (including other AI bots) and to detect and block spam. And we are exploring the use of AI in ways that send more art lovers and collectors to our customers.

As always, The FASO Way is an open forum, so we’d love to know what your opinion of such AI use is in the comments. And, please, as we always request, all comments must be dignified and respectful of us and of your fellow artist colleagues who may have differing points of view. We are in this together, so discussion, and even debate, is important. But hateful or threatening comments will be blocked.

This post may be truncated in some email clients. I encourage you to read it on the web at this link: Read full piece.

Happy 4th of July weekend! You’ll notice the ads in this newsletter feature art celebrating America. I encourage you to look at Beverly’s prints. They are extremely affordable.

FASO Loves Beverly Caputo’s Art

Wouldn’t You Love to work with a website hosting company that actually promotes their artists?

As you can see, at FASO, we actually do, and we are the only website host we know of that does.

Please click the button below to start working with an art website host that actually cares about its artists.

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Who Told You to Stop Believing in Magic?

This piece originally appeared on Clint’s personal newsletter, The Universal Riddle, here. We will be locking this piece in a few days to prevent duplicate content issues.

When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful
A miracle, oh, it was beautiful, magical
And all the birds in the trees, well they’d be singing so happily
Oh, joyfully, oh, playfully watching me

— Supertramp, The Logical Song

When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful: I loved reading, dogs (and cats), adventures and, especially, quests. Growing up in a small town in northwest Arkansas in the 1970’s, I was afforded much freedom, even as a young boy. We lived out in the Ozark forest on a mountain: a perfect home base for questing.

Fueled on inspiration from reading Huckleberry Finn, or The Hardy Boys, I’d set out on Saturday mornings with my two blue tick hounds, Molly and Frosty, along with the little schnauzer (whom I creatively named Schnauzy) who always tried her best to keep up with the bigger dogs, and we’d head out into the woods, exploring. Or, I’d hop on my bike and meet up with friends for a day of shared adventure.

Nothing much happened on these adventures: we followed streams to their source, we found waterfalls emptying into magical pools, we had epic dirt-clod battles involving trench warfare on construction sites. We once made a sacred oath (that may have involved spit and blood) to follow the town creek as far as it went. We spent most of the day trying to construct a raft because we had reached a point where it became impossible to walk along the banks. Our parents found us there, after dark, still trying get our ratty raft — made of shipping palettes and milk cartons full of air — to float. Our parents found us and lectured us about water moccasins and responsibilities. They weren’t happy. But we were.

I say “nothing much” happened, but that’s not quite true. Plenty happened, in our imaginations, we were the heroes of our own stories. We imitated the art we read. And heroes save the world, or, at least, the day.

As I grew, I discovered Dungeons and Dragons, and my love of reading became voracious: The Chronicles of Narnia, The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings. More, and bigger, quests. When I ran out of things to read, I’d pick up whatever my dad had finished with: Piers Anthony fantasy books, Dune, numerous sci-fi novels, and several Stephen King books. And, the thing is, these worlds drew me in because they were far more interesting than the one I lived in.

Despite the fact that my friends and I were adventurous heroes on the weekends, the regular world was pretty dull by comparison: Homework, school, sitting inside all day, multiplication tables, conformity, rules, grades, competition.

I recall my first brush with the brutal world of the market-economy. For some kind of fundraiser, I was expected to go door-to-door and sell crappy chocolate bars.

Why would anyone want these? I wondered. I mean, it wasn’t like we were selling something awesome like Snickers bars. No. It was some off-brand produced “exclusively” for fundraisers. So, I walked up and down main street, after school, sullen, working up the courage to go into the shops to try and sell my crappy chocolate to the poor people that worked there.

I, the adventurer, the savior of damsels in distress, the hero, had been domesticated, and turned into the mundane symbol of everything that’s wrong with modernity: a salesman. In a turn of events that shocked nobody, I wasn’t very good at it.

You wouldn’t ask Buck Rogers to sell insurance, and those fundraisers shouldn’t have asked me to sell chocolate. I’m sure my parents either bought most of it or pawned it off on their friends.

My friends and I, after we discovered Dungeons and Dragons moved much of our adventuring fully into our imaginations. My character was usually an elf. I loved the combination of fighting skill plus the ability to cast spells, I mean if we’re entering an imaginary world, then of course there should be magic.

Through some course of events I can no longer recall, one day, I had to take over as the dungeon master. And, over the course of that day it began to dawn upon me, that I didn’t have to purchase D&D campaigns from TSR: I could create my own adventures.

I could create my own worlds.

And so I did.

I think that is the day I first became a writer, I just didn’t realize it yet.

Soon afterwards, my parents bought me my first computer, and I did the same thing: I created my own worlds.

I spent hours and hours learning to program just so that I could create my own text adventure games in the image of Zork.

That was writing.

That was creating.

That was Art.

Sure, it was a back door way into writing, and it took me on a long detour through the world of technology and software development for a large part of my career, out here, in the increasingly-devoid-of-magic “real” world, but it was world-building nonetheless. And there are worse ways to make a living than writing software. So I can’t complain, but, somewhere along the way, I lost sight of the magic. I lost sight of The God Spell. I lost sight of life.

When we are children, of course, we are full of imagination and creativity. We see wonder everywhere. We have ideas. We want to go on adventures. We want to save the world. So we play. We practice, in the ways that we can, for that future when maybe we can share our ideas in ways that help.

But, something has gone wrong. Somehow, we stopped encouraging such ideas. We are told to forget all the “nonsense.” We are told to be practical. We are told to be logical. Eventually we forget all that stuff and we “get serious.” We have bills to pay, after all.

Who are you to expect magic? Who are you to make things better? Did you expect to be free?

After all, “they” say, “it’s not work if you like doing it.”

Who are you to save the world?

But then they sent me away to teach me how to be sensible
Logical, oh, responsible, practical
And then they showed me a world where I could be so dependable
Oh, clinical, oh, intellectual, cynical

— Supertramp, The Logical Song

But here’s the thing: we don’t actually forget all our wondrous ideas. We don’t forget the magic. We suppress it.

And that’s why people are so angry; why they are so clinical, oh, intellectual, cynical.

What I’ve discovered lately, and it makes all the difference, is simply this one tiny truth: you don’t have to suppress it.

So I stopped suppressing it and starting reading and, especially, writing again. I started creating again. I started living and telling stories again.

And, through that, I rediscovered the magic I thought I had lost forever. Apparently, you can reenter the garden. I finally became old enough — as C.S. Lewis wrote to his Goddaughter, Lucy Barfield, about Narnia — to start reading, and believing in, fairy tales again:

My Dear Lucy:

I wrote this story for you, but when I began it I had not realized that girls grow quicker than books. As a result you are already too old for fairy tales, and by the time it is printed and bound you will be older still. But some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again.

Your affectionate Godfather, C. S. Lewis

That magic that most people have learned to suppress?

That is who we actually are, as artists.

That magic is our truth, and truth always has the power to set us free. Someone important; someone serious; someone who told us to be like children; someone who actually did save the world told us to remember that.

“The truth will set you free”

Free to do what?

Why to go on a quest, of course!

And this is the quest of the artist:

First, we embark upon a hero’s journey to find our True Self, our True Name.

Then, we save that True Self from the forces we’ve allowed to imprison it.

And finally, now armed once again with our full magic, we set out on an adventure to share the power of our imagination – our art – with others, so they too might awaken their own latent magic and thus help us in the important quest of saving the world.

And boy, does the world need saving, more than ever. Won’t you join us? What is your magic power? What magic do you share with your art?

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There are times when all the world’s asleep
The questions run too deep
For such a simple man
Won’t you please, please tell me what we’ve learned?
I know it sounds absurd
Please tell me who I am?

— Supertramp, The Logical Song

PS — The themes in this piece are the same ideas I explore in my forthcoming book, The Sovereign Artist. If that is of interest to you, please click here to join the waitlist.

Join our next FASO Show Live!
https://register.faso.com/live-guest

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For today’s episode we sat down with Jennifer Balkan, a contemporary representational oil painter and art instructor based in Austin, with an academic background in behavioral neuroscience and sociology. She describes how a lifelong love of drawing crystallized into a serious painting practice after a transformative, self-gifted trip to Paris, which led her to take her first painting class in Austin in 2001. Despite completing a PhD and following a more “rational” career path, she felt an irresistible pull toward painting, ultimately choosing to pursue art full time even amid concern and confusion from friends and family. Jennifer explains that her scientific and sociological studies deeply inform her figurative work, especially her focus on the emotional, cerebral life beneath a subject’s expression and her love of optical color mixing and visible mark-making. She discusses how her inspiration has evolved from narrative series into a stronger emphasis on shapes, light, and color relationships, and how experimenting with different media during the pandemic revitalized her practice and fed back into her oil painting. Jennifer also highlights the central role of Atelier Dojo in her life—as both a co-created figurative hub and an atelier program that nurtures students’ individual voices. Jennifer also shares practical, grounded advice for aspiring full-time artists about embracing multiple income streams, loving the process, and committing to sustained, disciplined practice. Finally, she tells us all about her upcoming shows and workshops!

Jennifer’s FASO site:
jenniferbalkan.com/

Jennifer’s Social Media:
instagram.com/jenniferbalkan/

Atelier Dojo!
atelierdojo.com/

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Transcript:

Jennifer Balkan: 0:00

You gotta love this stuff, you gotta love quote practicing, because we’re always practicing, and so it’s like, if you don’t love the process, then it’s not worth your time, because it’s too done, it’s too darn hard to like sustain yourself financially for you not to love the process, and just love the practice of doing it.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:24

Welcome to the Fast So Podcast, where we believe that Fortune Favors of old rush. My name is Laura Baier, and I’m your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips, specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. For today’s episode, we sat down with Jennifer Balkin, a contemporary representational oil painter and art instructor based in Austin, with an academic background in behavioral neuroscience and sociology. She describes how a lifelong love of drawing crystallized into a serious painting practice after a transformative self-gifted trip to Paris, which led her to take her first painting class in Austin in 2001 Despite completing a PhD and following a more quote unquote rational career path, she felt an irresistible pull toward painting, ultimately choosing to pursue art full time, even amid concern and confusion from friends and family, Jennifer explains that her scientific and sociological studies deeply inform her figurative work, especially her focus on the emotional, cerebral life beneath the subject’s expression, and her love of optical color mixing and visible mark making. She discusses how her inspiration has evolved from narrative series into a stronger emphasis on shapes, light, and color relationships, and how experimenting with different media during the pandemic revitalized her practice and fed back into her oil painting. Jennifer also highlights the central role of Atelier Dojo in her life, as both a co-created figurative hub and an atelier program that nurtures students in the visual voices. Jennifer also shares practical, grounded advice for aspiring full-time artists about embracing multiple income streams, loving the process and committing to sustained, disciplined practice. Finally, she tells us all about her upcoming shows and workshops. Welcome, Jennifer, to the FASO podcast. How are you today?

Jennifer Balkan: 2:12

I’m good, Laura. Thanks for having me.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:14

Yeah, I’m excited to have you, because you have such beautiful work, and you just have like such a fun personality to be around as well, and I can see it in your work, and I can see it when I talk to you. So I’m excited to discuss more of that, and how your very unique background also led to you becoming a really great painter somehow magically that we are going to hear about. But before we talk about your gorgeous work, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do.

Jennifer Balkan: 2:43

Sure, I’m Jennifer, and I am predominantly an oil painter, but I also love to draw. I would, I classify myself as a contemporary representational painter. Always funny to kind of put labels on your visual stuff, but that helps kind of kind of understand it, and yeah, I’m the art instructor, and but yeah, that is who I am, as far as the visual art part of it, there’s more to more to who I am, but yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 3:25

yes, there’s always more things in life. Yeah, I think that question can sometimes, some people like, oh, tell us who you are, what you do, and I think some people can really get deep, deep into.. I know, I know, like, well, there’s all other things,

Jennifer Balkan: 3:37

but let’s just talk about the art, yeah, exactly, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 3:41

but of course the art comes from your experience as a human on on this fine earth, so it can go deep. I mean, it’s it’s inextricable, it just depends on how far you want to go, but, but yeah, you did have a very interesting background before you became a painter, so actually I really want to know, when did you begin to follow the path of the artist?

Jennifer Balkan: 4:06

Yeah, so you know, I have drawn all my life, and always, yeah, always had a pencil or a pen in my hand, and I didn’t, you know, I didn’t study art formally as a kid at all, other than, you know, just playing around, and I think it was really.. I took a couple of, you know, exciting, informative classes in college that were a studio art class, as well as a, an art history class, and loved, loved it, loved them, but was kind of just pursuing other things, trying to figure out what my major was, and, and exploring, and, and so it really wasn’t until at. Actually, after I finished graduate school, not an art on a trip that I gifted myself, I was sitting in an internet cafe when those existed in Paris, and signed up for my very first painting class, I guess, painting class as an adult, and, and that in Austin, that that is so signed up when I came home, having been like super inspired by seeing all these master works, and sort of just trying to, trying to imagine how, you know how to, how to learn such things? Yeah, basically came home in 2001 and took a class and just kind of got hooked and went from, went from there. So that was sort of like the, the spark, the beginning of it all. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 6:00

yeah, and I think also I feel like a lot of people that have interviewed as well have a similar sort of, like, oh, I know I love this, but oh, my family wants me to be rational and have a, you know, a career that they’re not worried about, so and then they always end up just going back into it anyway.

Jennifer Balkan: 6:20

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, I don’t know, in this, in this life, in this one life, you know, some of us believe we have one life, you are at least on this planet, it’s like you’ve got to do, if you’re lucky enough to be able to pursue a dream, you got to do it, it’s, I mean, that’s basically what happened with me. It’s like, I, I, you know, there are all these, not, you know, this forces that were sort of, sort of trying spelling out a life that I guess I had started putting together, or a path based on what I studied and what I went to school for, and, and that, that just.. I don’t know, like once, once I, once I really discovered painting, I felt so.. I know, so fueled, and so passionate about it in a way that I had not felt like anything else before, it, and so at that point I realized that I’ve got to do this, this like this is what I need to do at the cost expense of letting whatever else go, so yeah, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a strong force,

Laura Arango Baier: 7:43

it’s, it’s like, you know, a magnetic force. It really pulls you back, and it’s, it’s also, you know, for some people it’s even like after a successful career, where, like, they retire, and they’re like, okay, this is what I always wanted to do, and now, like, nothing’s gonna stop me. So it takes a lot, a lot of strength and gumption, to you know, pick up from a sooner stage, right? Like, oh, wow, I like, I studied this crazy major, and then it just wasn’t fulfilling, and I know exactly what fulfills me, you know. I think, yeah,

Jennifer Balkan: 8:16

you know, and I, and people around, you know, friends, family, they were just sort of like scratching their heads, like you just finished a PhD, and so it, my, my graduate studies were different from my undergrad, so my undergrad was in behavioral neuroscience, and then my grad later in sociology with a focus on Latin American sociology, which, which is what brought me down to Austin, the proximity to Mexico, and, and so, yeah, you know, like, had some really great experiences living, living in Mexico, and conducting field work, and it was, you know, really, really beautiful, and so after all, after all of that, and I mean, you know, there were there were a lot of low points, as because that’s that’s what life looks like, and and that, and I think mainly that I just kept on kind of like questioning myself and wondering if this was the thing that I’m, I’m meant to be doing, and so when I, you know, when I discovered the thing, and it was not the same as sort of this, this path that I had started creating for myself, it was like, what, you know, people were just kind of puzzled, and like concerned, and, but you know, you just gotta have to go with what I don’t know with yourself, like with, with you have all the answers for yourself, and sometimes. Don’t know what they are, but you know, in the universe helps guide us to kind of determine what what’s next, so, so, yeah, that is, yeah, kind of went, went, went forward with, with the, with the help of, of having some like wonderful interactions with people who you know, as I was telling you about this when we first met, like a couple of people, and not necessarily in, in visual, in the visual arts, but had, like, taken a big leap of faith, so to speak, like just had pursued a creative, a creative passion, a creative pursuit that was not in line with their kind of prescribed practical life, and just went for it, and I, you know, I kind of glommed onto some of these, these stories, and I’m like, all right, I don’t want to look back someday when I’m when I’m old and regret like not not doing it, so so I went for

Laura Arango Baier: 10:59

it. Yeah, exactly. I was actually going to mention that, you know, the regret part, because, like, you were saying, you know, we have one life that we can control at the moment, maybe, right? Yeah,

Jennifer Balkan: 11:11

right, right. So

Laura Arango Baier: 11:12

it’s good to keep in mind, like, oh man, like, how do I live a life that I know every morning I wake up, I am excited to wake up, and I’m excited to work on a project, instead of, you know, leading all the way down to my deathbed, eventually, and just regretting not having the strength to trust myself, you know. I think that’s, you know, it’s one of those things to consider if someone out there listening is like, oh, maybe I want to be an artist, but I’m a little scared. It’s, it’s scary

Jennifer Balkan: 11:48

indeed,

Laura Arango Baier: 11:48

but yeah, but if you’re gonna regret it at the end of your life, not at least trying, then there’s your answer, you know.

Jennifer Balkan: 11:55

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s just, I don’t know, it’s like it’s taking risks, risks of all kinds, and, and some are much, you know, feel much bigger than others, but, but I like, you don’t, I mean, even in whatever it is you’re studying, you know, whether it’s whether it’s art or something more academic or scientific, it’s if you don’t take these like little, like, I don’t know, kind of throw caution to the wind and trust yourself a little bit in, in taking a step forward, kind of out of your comfort zone. You’re just like, you’re never going to, I don’t know, you’re like, like, I feel like you’re never going to move to the next level, whatever the next level is in life, like in getting to a higher, higher space, and something that’s more rewarding and fulfilling, and and connecting in some way, so, so it is, it’s like it’s not necessarily always the safe way to go, the safe, comfortable, yeah, route, but, but that doesn’t, yeah, I don’t, I don’t, I think like those that don’t, that that are just always on that safe, comfortable route may never get to a spot where they like feel like complete elation, you know, this sort of like this, this bliss that doesn’t last. It’s like, does it’s like these moments of, I mean, that’s just.. I guess that’s just.. I don’t know, this like the metaphysical aspect of our lives and such, which we’re, we, you know, hold on to these like these moments, these flow states that are like very, very precious, and of course, if they were like continuous and they lasted, then they wouldn’t be what they are, and it’s just this, you know, yin yang thing that’s a constant up and down, but it’s good to try to bite onto those little morsels when we can

Laura Arango Baier: 14:02

exactly, yeah, yeah, and actually I also really wanted to ask you, because you, you have such a studied STEM background, do you find that your past studies, you know, neuroscience, sociology, have they affected your career as an artist, or the way that you perceive painting, or the subject matter.

Jennifer Balkan: 14:27

Yeah, I think you know, I think the short answer is yes. I think that, like, I mean, really everybody is what all of us do in our lives, whether we want it to or not, like impact the choices we make, and whatever those choices are, and what we choose to create, what we choose to describe in words and in pictures, and so even if I were to say no, like it has. Has to, it’s like it just like has to impact what I’m, what I’m, or how I’m thinking about what I’m thinking about, and I’m when I’m articulating something with paint or coming up with a, an idea for a series or paintings, and so I think, like, very like tangibly. I love, I love the idea when I, and I’ve always been drawn to painting people, like from from the get go. The the work that has spoken to me most before I ever even started to paint was figurative work, and particularly the kind of figurative work, the kind of mark making that’s probably, I mean, you know, now as a like a learned person in this, which I didn’t know how to describe really before, I’m like optical mixing, basically work that in which you can really see the artist’s hand, but has has a strong capture of, you know, some naturalism and reality, but is very much a little bit of a beautiful abstraction of of swaths of paint, so, so, like, you know, basically getting up close, and you know, this, what, like, what, what reads from a distance as very realistic and very continuous and fluid, is a, is a, is a wonderful little collage of, of little shapes and bits, and so, so that’s so that’s been the kind of stuff that has that has like really really spoken to me over the years and and I see it like I want to, well, so when I’m working on visually describing and and a person or a face or I’m like thinking about what is underneath that skin, so to speak, and so you know, thinking about the thoughts of what’s happening under the expression and really trying to evoke an emotional state in the paint, and and so like that is like that’s very kind of brain like emotional neuro scientific thinking about sort of the cerebral and the emotional within all of us and so somehow when described like describing that in paint, so I am, so I, so I think that just because I always loved that kind of study, it definitely informs the way I think about painting the human subject matter that I, that I do,

Laura Arango Baier: 18:01

yeah, and I totally agree that it is inevitable that you know anything that has happened in our past in some way or another is going to influence what we do, regardless of whether we perceive it that way or not, because the human brain is so complicated.

Jennifer Balkan: 18:16

Totally, yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 18:19

yeah, and actually speaking of, besides, you know, the evoking emotion and the collage of color, what inspires a piece for you? Like, where does the idea start for you?

Jennifer Balkan: 18:37

You know, it’s so like, as a, as, as somebody who’s been doing this for a while, and I know you, as you know, fellow artist and painter, can relate to what, what you know, what, what drove us at one time change has changed, you know, and I, we, I hope, like I hope, I hope that we all, you know, who are on this path can continue to grow and change. I mean, I know you know we all probably see, see work out there, you know, maybe not know personally or not know personally folks who are like look very much the same as they did, you know, 10 years ago or 15 years ago, and, and so, and it always kind of puzzles me, because I, I get, I don’t know, I get tired of, of the same thing, and what’s like, or like creating the same thing in the same way, and I am, and what’s funny about that is that I think, like, okay, I’m kind of totally going off of thrills here, like, tangent-wise, but I’m realizing, but anyway, bring it back and maybe expand on that thought in a moment, what is what inspires me, so I would say at this moment. And time like shapes and light, and it as, as related to human subject matter. I mean, this is so.. it was like I’m laughing at myself because I feel like this just describes everything, but like human subject matter and objects, people and stuff, and their stuff, not our stuff assigned to them. If you are like creating a composition, and much like you know, in the past I used to think of creating concepts and series somewhat like a storyboard and film, and so I would, and I’ve, I like, actually, to this day, I still continue to paint like this, and I, it’s like something that it’s very hard to shake, and I guess that’s just, you know, we are what we are at some point, but, but from the very start of when I, when I began to paint, I would think in like little series, and so, so it might be, you know, working with a model and kind of coming up with this narrative that includes various physical elements, objects, and things, props that, that kind of tell whatever the narrative is that I’m creating and and so and that and working that out across like you know anywhere from three paintings to six paintings or whatever whatever my my my idea is and so so that of course, is like a little series of something. What we usually label, and I got so accustomed to kind of thinking like that, or maybe it just has always been in me, that that it’s hard. It’s like hard to just paint a painting and leave it at that, like it’s like frustrating, I mean, when it comes to like working on something in my studio, like not just, you know, responding to in the moment of whether you know it’s a still life project or working on a model at the at the school or in an open studio, which all of which I love to do. I just like love somebody puts something in front of me, and okay, draw and paint that thing, like that is that’s a that’s something that I, you know, it’s like just just drawing and painting for paint sake, and not coming up with the the thing that you’re going to visualize, so, so that, yeah, so like, but, but in my, I would say earlier I was very much driven by it, like, okay, I’m creating this particular narrative and spelling it out, and with paint, and but in, in like the last, I don’t know, hand, like few years, I’ve, I’ve been really, I don’t know, like the impact of the light and the color and the shape within the pictorial space is so exciting to me, so it’s like, like, more so than it used to be, and I, you know, when I look at work out there, I am like, so moved when I see really strong shape, I don’t know, like shape relationship, and so when, so now, and things that I’m thinking about now is like, how can I use elements that I, you know, like actual, you know, person, and and various objects and such to create that effect, like I’m so, and and then sometimes and also I love color and so there are times where I’m like I just want to paint pink and yellow, like it has to be pink and yellow, and so so I will like that color relationship will kind of drive something, drive and, and the idea, the concept, whatever. So, I think, like, it’s gotten just less concrete for me, as like, I don’t have to paint like the person doing the thing, but it’s more of, like, yeah, the person might be doing the thing, but there has to be all this exciting light shape thing, you know, first and foremost, almost before whatever the actual identifiable stuff is,

Laura Arango Baier: 24:51

yeah, and I think that’s a really great route to start with, because at its, I guess, at its core, like painting in general is an. Abstract form of reality, because it is a d on a d, so there’s no way around it. You are taking, you’re drawing out from reality, and you’re putting it on something else with the illusion that it’s something entirely different than a flat surface. So, yeah, I think that that makes perfect sense. And I totally relate to, you know, I think a lot of us are so motivated by ooh, this object, and like, what if I put it like this with this other thing, and yeah, and it tells us about this other thing, and that’s perfectly normal, because you know, as humans, that’s how many of us perceive visual narrative, but yeah, I think exploring that is really cool, and it actually wanted to circle back on, you know, what was it like for you? And it’s okay, this is like a little too personal, but what was it like for you when you realized, man, I don’t like what I’m painting anymore, or I’m bored of this, I need to break away. Like, what was that transition like for you?

Jennifer Balkan: 25:55

I feel like it’s.. it hasn’t been so.. I don’t know, dramatic, I guess it’s just like these little moments where, and it’s, it’s usually where I’m, I don’t know, like exploring, maybe exploring a slightly different medium, a different palette, a different, you know, just doing something a little different, and I just, I kind of really recently read another artist, trying to remember who now, I can’t remember somewhere, somewhere out in the social media world where they were saying that if they, if they get stuck in a rut, they try something in a different medium, which I thought was like very relatable, and so one, you know, one thing that, like, really changed, or I don’t know, added, added, and adjusted a lot for me was during the pandemic, like, you know, a lot of, lot of change happened for a lot of people, and it started off as being like really, really hard, I know, I know, you know, it’s like either as an artist you were having the time of your life because like you could lock yourself in your studio and nothing mattered, and I’ve heard of people being like the most creative they ever were, but as an artist and a parent and a kid, you know, just trying to navigate school and isolation and all that stuff, it was, is pretty rough, pretty rough, but anyway, thankfully that’s behind us, but one thing that did happen for me during, during the COVID times was that I discovered some new drawing medium, and it happened because I, you know, at at our school, Telia Dojo, while we were, while we were trying to survive the pandemic, like as a school and financially and such, we we started remote hope hosting remote open studios, which actually ended up being like just a savior for so many people out there that were, you know, I mean, feeling isolated and wanting to continue some kind of drawing communal experiences or painting experience, and so what we, what we would do was that we would, we would host Zoom sessions with recordings of live models, so it was kind of, so we would do these recordings where it’s kind of funny to think about a recording where someone’s just sitting like that, like recorded, like, but but it’s still, it still was not a photo, you know. It’s like we wanted to sort of the feeling of like we’re work, you know, there’s a, there’s a person in there that it’s not totally still. So, at any rate, we did that, and the silver lining in that was that we had, you know, people tuning in from all over the world, which was not, you know, I think that’s what a lot of people talk about now, about pandemic stuff, but so that was pretty neat, and so, so, as, as, as someone to host the Zoom session, you know, we would alternate among the people working at Dojo, and so what I had decided was like, I didn’t always feel like, you know, it’s like computer screen, you’re navigating a Zoom session, letting people in and out, and doing all the kind of technical stuff, and then also working on your, your whatever, your drawing or your painting of the individual on the screen, and we would share, we would take breaks and share and such, so, which was pretty cool, and you could see everybody’s little head, you know, working on their stuff, and, and so at some point I, you know, it just like became a little too cumbersome painting because of the work, you know, because of the key using the keyboard and all of that, so I’m like, oh. To draw, and, but I’m like, I want to draw in color, and so my, I had gotten my kid a set of Posca markers, and so the, are you familiar with those? What those are, they’re paint pens, and so they look like markers, but they’re actually acrylic paint in, in pen form or in marker form, rather, and, and so, anyway, I was like, huh, maybe I’ll try, you know, this is like random, maybe I’ll try using some of these, and so that became a whole thing for me, and, and so, because they, they’re opaque and they dry like that, just like acrylic paint does, but you have a lot of control because it’s really like using a drawing medium, and so, so I, you know, I got really into it, I got really into all the hatching, basically, like, so I would describe the, you know, the physicality of a person with hatching with cross hatching as color mixing, so it was like it just fulfilled this whole like this real fun optical optical mixing kind of process that I love, and, and so I ended up like getting more of them, and getting a bigger palette, and, and really, really kind of rolling with that for a while, so that was a whole new thing, and people responded to them pretty well, and I started doing little commissions of little like portrait heads and such, with doing that, and so that was born out of needing something a little different, and some change, and then, and some change in that, and then from that I got into Bic pen drawing as well, very similar, except ink, and, and using those little, like old, like old school clicky mix, the four, the blue pens with the red, red, black, green, and blue ink, and they also have a couple other varieties of color, so, so, yeah, and so I kind of, I just like developed another way of mark making on with a, you know, dry-ish medium on paper, which was really, really fun and different, and from that, after from that, my next kind of, I don’t know, idea concept was like, how can I merge that with my oil painting, so that kind of like spawned trying to figure out a union between the two, and I did, and I created a body of work with that, bringing those two things together. So, anyway, all this is to say that, like, it’s just exciting to try new things, and so, and I like, but, like, in the end, when looking at all, you know, the kinds of things that I have done, I kind of like laugh, because I realized that there’s still such a similarity, like what I perceive as like such a big step in a different direction in the overarching umbrella of all of it. It’s like you’re still painting the people, you still like the masks, you still like the animal, like it’s just like you still are doing kind of a lot of the same thing, but in slightly different ways, and I guess that I guess that is what, like, really describes, you know, somebody is like personal voice, you know, in through throughout it all, so it’s like you see all these changes, but there’s still kind of a common thread of that, that individual through, through it all, so, but, uh, but yeah, so that has, that has kept me from, I don’t know, things getting like stale after a while,

Laura Arango Baier: 34:16

yeah, yeah, and I think that’s it’s one of those things as an artist, where that growth is there, it’s waiting in, you know, like in your case, like a new medium that you hadn’t explored, and or even just in digging deeper to one subject matter. I mean, there’s, there’s so many different ways to just grow as an artist if you’re looking, and if that’s what you want, I mean, I think it’s inevitable that we grow, and in terms of the voice, I mean, yeah, that’s like one of those things where, like, you look at your work, there’s like one piece part of like the micro and the macro, and like you, it’s like it’s totally different, but then in the macro, it’s like, oh, never mind, still me, it’s still me. Yeah, like I still write exactly the same with pen and with pencil and with a giant marker or Sharpie, it’s still going to be the

Jennifer Balkan: 35:09

same. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 35:11

so it’s yeah, it’s inevitable. And then I also wanted to ask you, how your time with Atelier Dojo has also affected your work and your inspiration as well.

Jennifer Balkan: 35:28

My whole Atelier Dojo existence has been, you know, such an incredible part of my life as an artist, and, and you know, I think it’s just, I don’t know, it’s beautiful, what, when, when, when things unexpected happen, and then they end up being like such a big part of you, and so the story behind that is that back in 2018 my dear friends Denise Fulton and Karen Offit, friends, fellow painters opened up the school, and that was that came out of us regularly painting together, and just painting models together, like we were for a little bit with a couple other people calling ourselves the five LPs, which were the five lady painters, never got, never got the T-shirts with the actual like LP record, but anyway, we talked about it for a while, so, but at any rate, opened up a school, and the initial vision for it was a place where we could teach classes, painting and drawing, not just us, but, you know, other hire other people to host open studios, live open studios, were model poses, and, and also bring workshop artists in from all over the place, so there was like nothing like that in Austin, and we were, you know, we were frustrated that this, these kinds of places existed in, you know, other cities all over the country and world, and so decided that it was time for us, so really got that rolling, and what it was met with like great acceptance from the community, which was wonderful. So you know, we wanted to have a figurative art making, mark making hub in Austin, and like you know that seemed to be a need for other people too, so, so, yeah, so that was, you know, so the dojo became, you know, a popular place from from the get go, and then come about 20, about, you know, probably about a year, like maybe a year and a half later, one of our wonderful instructors, Justin Baiersa had yearned to teach some classes with longer poses akin to what he had studied at in the Angel Academy, where you went. I learned, and so, so he, yeah, so you know, we were like, we’re very open, we’re like, well, if people want them, let’s, let’s do it. And so Justin started teaching a couple classes, a cast drawing class and a long post figure drawing class, and and students were signing up and signing up repeatedly, and wanting, you know, wishing that they could do it on more of a regular, you know, not just a weekly basis, but come in a couple times a week or more, and so it just really organically grew out of a desire of from from students as well as just in teaching it, Danny Grant jumped in with him, and they were co-teaching for a little while, and then come, I guess, in 21 I had, I had just had a solo exhibition, and I was like ready for some change, you know, the feeling of like finishing up a show, and just being, you know, kind of exhausted, so, and also, and also having taught in the same manner I had been teaching for years, which was really wonderful, and I’m like, you know, super grateful that I was able to do that for so long, but wanting to just pause, and I don’t know, be a student for a little bit, be a student again for a little bit, and, and try something different, and I don’t know, just kind of like a little bit of, I was at a little bit of a crossroads in my, in my own art world, meaning I was definitely getting a. Little burned out on the classes that I was teaching, and just the format of them, and so I began to study with Justin at the, at what we were at that point calling Dojo Academy, and I loved it. I just, like, I, you know, I don’t know, I think it was just, it was he chuckled when I told him I wanted to be a student, and but he, yeah, jumped in there, and spending time with these casts, and the figure for longer than I had ever done was really, you know, like I don’t know, just really, really exhilarating, taking a much deeper dive into observational work than I had been doing in the past, and so anyway, super loved it, and kind of just sort of inadvertently became Justin’s assistant with students, didn’t plan for that, but it just kind of happened, I think, like I, you know, I did, I did okay as a student, just having had all the all the experience that I had in a slightly different way, so it, it was like I’m learning something new, kind of, but I, I still, I felt very connected to it, so, so, anyway, fast forward, Justin decides he’s moving out of state, because he’d been in Austin for a long time, and I’m, I realized it was up to me to sort of say to keep this thing going, and so I was like very, very committed to it. I did a ton of research on atelier programs, consulted with some painter friends who are very like well deep in within their own programs, teaching, that is, and, and, yeah, basically, got the program going, hired, you know, it’s, it’s crazy to think about, it’s been through some changes, hiring some different people, we are now at this moment, we have an incredible staff, and we are, I guess, coming up on our third year and graduating our very first students, so.. and it’s like.. it’s just such a.. I don’t know. it’s. it’s so neat to be on other artist students journeys with them, and so that, that’s something that I didn’t experience as a teacher before, before this, and so, though I had, like, you know, it was, I always loved teaching, I loved geeking out on technique, and, and, you know, and I had the range of students, like people, take art classes for all kinds of reasons, some, some pretty serious, some like really, really want to, you know, learn and better their craft, and have some professional goals in mind, and other people are like hard after a hard day’s work, just want to, you know, relax a little bit, and so, and all of that is equally good, you know, it’s like there’s so many reasons for, for, for, you know, trying this kind of thing, but when I started teaching in the academy, it was like, it was, it was just a whole different kind of teaching experience, because you know, continuing to teach the same students over and over, and watch, get to get to be by their side as they were like having those light bulb moments, and these, you know, also pitfalls, like just, you know, the things that happen as we’re, as we’re all learning and continuing to work, and um, and and just like developing like really strong relationships and community and camaraderie and I like, wow, this is such a beautiful thing, and, and it’s like, I can’t imagine life without it at this point, so, so, yeah, Atelier Doda, we’ve been growing, we’ve, we’ve moved into a different space from our original space, and now we’re getting ready to move into an yet another space, because we’re expanding the size with an additional classroom to get to offer more programming, so we still, we have lots of six week classes, we host workshops still from with artists from all over, we have our open studios and we have our three year ish tuition based Dojo Academy program, so lot of good stuff going on at the school and and it’s yeah, it’s a lot. Really great place to be. I feel grateful for it.

Laura Arango Baier: 45:03

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly webinar, The FASO Show, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories, and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you’re a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn, and spark new ideas, and whether you’re stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don’t miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next FASO show webinar is coming up on the 18th of June with our special guest, Timothy Tyler. You can find the sign-up link in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, and I think if anyone’s in the Austin area and wants to get some good education, they should totally, of course, add the link in the show notes for Atelier Dojo, so anyone can go check it out and sign up for any workshops and fun stuff, you know, you never know, you can try a figure session one night and before you know it, you’re obsessed,

Jennifer Balkan: 46:01

totally, yes. yeah, yeah. Oh, and you know what? One other one thing I wanted to say about that, you know, as I was thinking about some of the questions in advance, something that maybe you’ll, you know, you were thinking of getting to anyway, but something really special about the art program, and something that I think about in my own artistic path is that, that we really, you know, I think, like, as artists, or as, let’s say, as, as growing artists and students, we wonder how we will cultivate our own voice, you know, it’s like, you know, it’s like, I don’t, I don’t want to just learn how to draw and paint well, but I also, you know, I want to, I want to be unique in some way, or I want to, I want to do something a little different, and and be able to express myself in my own way, and have, you know perhaps be identifiable in some way, you know, and and I hear that a lot, like, how, okay, like, how do I figure that out, and I think, like, my answer to it is, like, either, either you already have it, and you just need to work like hours and hours of, of like, you know, really, really learning and practicing and growing within the craft to, to more successfully articulate visually what’s all what’s what’s there, or you maybe don’t know what that is yet, but you’re working on it for hours and hours, and, and experimenting, you know, with instruct, you know, taking the instruction in and trying things in different ways, and, and just, you know, learning the medium, and such, that you just can’t, you will, you will, like, there’s no way you will won’t figure it out, you know. It’s just like you will kind of just gravitate towards something, you know. Certainly, some subject matter, some way of paint handling from all your studies with different people. You like a little of this, a little of that. You take, you know, you take something good from from each person, and then work out how best to describe that yourself, and that becomes the you, and so, so at our school, like, we’re really, we don’t, you know, we’re something that’s very important to us is, is to, you know, is to really cultivate being the best, the best version of yourself, and so that means that when a student comes in, we never want to strip them of what is already there, because something is already there, and so we’re, you know, it’s like with our instruction and our critiques and our, you know, help helping them to grow as a, as a painter, as an artist. There’s, there’s kind of, there’s caution not to, like, you know, remove some of what’s already there, but instead, How can we help improve? How can, how can we help, help them to see a little more, see differently, I guess. And so, and with that, you know, certainly the all the technical stuff, you know, the measurement accuracy and line and mark making and construction and anatomical knowledge and all that technical stuff, but it does not necessarily have to be at odds with the with the the voice that’s that’s already in that that particular student, so we don’t need to kind of strip them of the of the Eunice, I don’t. To take the you out of you, but we just are adding all this other stuff to it, so and I think that also just helps with them coming out the other side and feeling like motivated and feeling like they, you know, maybe they don’t actually know exactly what you know, I mean, you know, it takes a while, as we know, to sort of figure, figure yourself out, but, but they’re not, they don’t feel stripped of anything, so that’s that’s important to

Laura Arango Baier: 50:31

us. Yeah, and I totally appreciate it, because from my experience, obviously, this doesn’t happen to everyone, but you know, when you go to these academic schools, there’s a lot of course competition, and there’s a lot of really rigorous, intense training, which is great. It’s really great, but at the same time, like you said, you know, there’s a little bit of that erasure of the self that happens because in order for you to reach a specific level of skill you need to erase your mistakes a lot, and I had a guest, actually a long while ago, who said your voice is actually the mistakes you repeat, which I thought was really interesting. Of course, you choose what mistakes you want, or what could be deemed as mistakes, right? Because, of course, there’s no real right or wrong in drawing. In the end, it’s really just like, okay, well, if this is my goal, then these are the steps I have to follow. But then, when that’s no longer your goal, say, for example, the super high finish, high render academic style, now you have to figure out, okay, what’s my new goal, and what are the steps that I need to get to there, because if I keep following these steps, I’m never going to get to this other goal, and I think that’s one of the hard parts about graduating from a very rigorous academic program, which is you become so reliant on this from a to b situation that when you want to go to point C, sure, you have some of the starter tools, but you, you don’t even remember what point C was supposed to be anymore, like, like it, because, of course, the academic can, it can be really addictive, it can be really fun, because it’s like, oh my gosh, I could paint a million still lives, because I know I can accomplish it, but at the same time, it’s like, for me personally, I just felt very unfulfilled by that. I was like, yeah, I can paint all these still lives, but I don’t, I don’t get any fulfillment out of it in the same way that I would if I was trying to explore these other ideas that I have, so I appreciate that Atelier Dojo, at least, wants to retain some of that. Okay, let’s think about, you know, how we can make sure that we’re using what you know and what you want and your style, and just develop that, so that it, it’s more accurate without erasing you completely, which I think is it’s a great goal to have. It seems a little hard, but it seems like a great goal. I think, like,

Jennifer Balkan: 53:11

it’s definitely.. I mean, it is.. it’s hard in this.. it’s what am I trying to say.. it can definitely be hard in the sense that maybe the progress, quote, whatever progress in quotes that a student hopes to make might be a little slow, might happen a little more slowly, and that’s okay, I, you know, I’ve, I think, like that’s really, we’ve got, got your whole life, and we’re, you know, I’m, I’m still, I still consider myself a student of all of this, so it’s, it, it, there’s, there, there are never any shortcuts, no matter what, like, no matter, no matter what particular kind of, of instructional program you pursue, or maybe, or not at all, and you are just on your own, trying, you know, learning and figuring it out. It’s time, it is time, and patience and discipline and hours and like hours and hours of bad drawings, bad paintings, and you keep on going, and so, so in that sense, like there’s, it’s just literally doing it as much as possible, and that is the way to getting better, like improving, you know. Regardless, there is not.. there’s.. I mean, I.. I would say, if, like, I did not attend the programs that exist now, didn’t, when I. Was when I was a much younger person, and, and I, you know, I’m like, oh man, you know, like, uh, if only, if only I would have gone to said school and done such and such, and it would have been quicker, like, so, so I do, I, okay, I do believe that there is a more efficient road to improvement, and to great, to great improvement, for sure, for sure. But even with that, it’s still, it’s still the hours of studying and sketching, and you know, keeping a sketchbook and drawing whenever you can, and all that stuff, so in that sense, you know, it’s just like it’s just you gotta love this stuff, you gotta love quote practicing, because we’re always practicing, and so it’s like, if you don’t love the process, then it’s not worth your time, because it’s too, it’s too darn hard to like sustain yourself financially for you not to love the process and just love the practice of doing it.

Laura Arango Baier: 56:11

Thank you. Yes, we’re so happy you said love the process, because there’s always, and I feel like it could, I could just be speaking for myself is the last before we continue to the next part, for the next question, because this is just so fascinating, but I feel like a lot of artists that I’ve noticed, you know, when you’re, you know, in the beginning stages, going into like early career to mid career, and then by the time you’re late career, you’re fine, but hopefully, but I feel like there’s always this, a bit of like a struggle between process and end result, right? And it’s always going to be like, oh, I want this end result, but then you don’t know the process to get to it, or like, the process completely alters the end result, and you know the idea you had in mind at the beginning is just like it never, it’s totally different, it’s not even anywhere close to what it was. It’s almost like when you have like a dream and things make sense in the dream, and then you like try to interpret it in real life, is like hands don’t move like that.

Jennifer Balkan: 57:17

Yeah, I like that analogy, that’s totally,

Laura Arango Baier: 57:21

so I feel like, yeah, loving the process, and just enjoying the process, and allowing that to also let, let your expectations shift, because if you have, like, these expectations about, I need this painting to look like this, and just have this extreme level of control, for some people, it works, and that’s great, but I think also, in the, you know, the side of like experimenting, learning, and allowing yourself to grow, it is so important to release some of that control a little bit, give yourself some room to maybe take things in a direction that you would never expect, that might be even better than this, like extreme uptightness, so it might be preventing a piece from like really speaking back to you, which I like to say that like paintings oftentimes will tell us what it means. It’s like screaming at you, and it’s your responsibility to reply to it and be like, okay, fine, I’ll move this over here, like you’re asking,

Jennifer Balkan: 58:21

I’m experiencing that literally right now.

Laura Arango Baier: 58:26

I feel like we all feel that, or it’s like, shut up, stop looking at me painting. I hear you, stop it.

Jennifer Balkan: 58:33

Yes, yes, yes,

Laura Arango Baier: 58:35

yes. So I’m really happy you mentioned process, because the more you focus on enjoying the process, like you said, the easier it is to, I would dare say, like you know, reach a painting that you might not have even expected to have ever reached, you know, if you had just kept limited your vision to like this level of perfection, instead of just like what can go beyond that, you know, glass ceiling that you’re putting, you know, yeah,

Jennifer Balkan: 59:04

yes, that’s

Laura Arango Baier: 59:07

a big one,

Jennifer Balkan: 59:09

so yeah, oh my gosh, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 59:11

yeah, that’s the artist’s life, but also, you know, in terms of the more monotonous side, that is a little bit tougher in the artist’s life. What was the moment for you where you became full time? What was that like for you when you, you know, you said, okay, this is it, no day job, or I mean, having a teaching job is great because you know you’re still an artist, but what was that like for you? That transition,

Jennifer Balkan: 59:40

yeah, yeah, you know, I had to, when I was thinking about this question, I kind of had to like go back and actually remember a few of the steps, like before I was like, okay, here I go, and you know, and play that out a little bit, it was in 2005 Dave, when I think I could have, I said, like, I officially left the part-time job I had as a research assistant at University of Texas, which is, which was a great thing to be able to do, because I could fill the rest of my hours with painting, drawing stuff, and before then my first like opportunity to show work was in 2003 and I was invited, kind of like an artist collective of sorts to exhibit two paintings, and it was like, was a really big deal for me, and, and, and they were received, they were received pretty well, and I then, by kind of via that, had an invitation to a local gallery, and quickly developed a relationship with them, and they, and they offered to give me a solo show in oh four, and so that was super exciting. These are the days where you know, hard to believe for most artists now, but you, you could walk into a gallery with your images under your arm and be like, “Hi, I’m an artist, you want to look at my, you know, my portfolio, which later on, even, even like a little while after that, I remember people saying, “Don’t ever do that again, or like, “Just do not do that, don’t dare do that in New York, you might be able to do that in Austin, but you know this, all like, there are just so many rules and like good guidance as to what you should and shouldn’t do as a, as a pounding the pavement, literally, artist, but it worked for me in that moment, and, and my naive self, and so, so, yeah, so that was kind of like the beginning of me exhibiting work, and and then in oh five, I, so I had been taking some classes, local classes here in Austin, and in 2005 I spent a month at the Denver Art Student League, where I just kind of filled my days with painting and drawing, and it was since I had never been like an official art student, it was as close to that experience, and it was just wonderful, and so when I returned from that was when I decided, like, all right, I think I’m going for it, and, and so that is when I left the part-time job, and, and I had recently gotten married, or in the, in the last couple years before that, gotten married, and my very supportive husband, Jeff, I said to him, I said,’Listen, I know this is like might feel really crazy, but if you can just financially support me for a little bit while I like really kind of figure this out, I’ll get you back at some point. Like, I hope to be able to do the same for you. He’s a super creative guy and musician and has played guitar all his life and such, so I, and a lot of other things, but, but I really, yeah, just with his support I was able to just say, okay, I’ll figure this out, and and so I, so that’s what I did, and then, and then in it was like later that year that I had my very first teaching job, and and the director of the local sculpture academy here in Austin was familiar with my work and asked me if I wanted to teach figure drawing, which was very scary for me, but also exciting and and very intimidating, and when I was taking some really incredible classes in Denver, I thought about the idea of teaching the stuff at some point, and like really, really holding on to some gems of knowledge that great people were bestowing upon me, and note taking, and everything, and thinking, like, okay, maybe I would want to teach this stuff. So that was my first, that was my first opportunity, which, you know, was scary and hard at first, but very rewarding. And then it just, and then more of that started to happen. I then taught figure painting there, and then that, then I ended up getting a couple other jobs, and so forth, and and eventually decided to start teaching in my own studio to small groups, so private but small. Groups of people where I’d hire, we would hire a model, and, and I, that, that, that, that began my regular six week sessions, which, at the time, I had, I had a wait list on them, you know, continually I would, I would alternate between portrait and figure painting, and then eventually I started doing some still life. It just because, at the time, there, aside from the university and the community college, there was very.. I mean, actually, at University of Texas, it.. you know, there was no representational mark making, not so much right now, either a little bit, but at the time zero, you know, it was not, you know, the the trend was not that, and so, so I had, yeah, I like the classes were in demand, which was like pretty good for me, so I did that all like for years up until 2018 where I kind of moved my classes into Atelier Dojo, and then brought on, you know, more students and all that stuff, but, but that, that really, so, so, you know, the teaching was very part-time, and it enabled me to be able to paint, be able to think about showing work do commissions from time to time, so I just, just kind of developing myself alongside that, so, so that was that, was it, that was that little turning point.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:35

Nice, yeah, and honestly, teaching makes you a better artist as well, because it just forces you to know what you’re talking about, and to also, you know, perceive different ways that you can explain to your students something that you know, if you may, if you say it in one way to one guy, he might not understand, or she, you might not understand, but you say it in a different way, suddenly, aha, that light bulb happens, and that’s also extremely fulfilling, you know, the teaching side can be fulfilling in its own way, but yeah, yeah, teaching and

Jennifer Balkan: 1:07:11

learning from students, learning from students, like I just, yeah, I mean, it just, I always found, you know, exactly, just to echo what you said, and, and just having, I mean, you don’t know something until you have to teach it to something else, and figuring out, I think, like a methodical, I think, because of my, because of my kind of patchwork of education, and, and really determining what a really great and effective way of communicating through, you know, in method to be able to teach somebody else, so that was that was something that I had to, I definitely had to figure out, because nobody, it’s not very educational just to watch somebody do their thing without structure, and so I had structure, but I didn’t, it wasn’t so clearly spelled out until I had to figure out how to spell it out for somebody else, and so yeah, that for 100% like, okay, what, what do I.. what do I do again?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:25

Yeah, yeah, that’s changed

Jennifer Balkan: 1:08:27

so much over time too, because you know, like, the more you know, the more you learn to be a great teacher, you should always be willing to continue to learn, and, and, and, and keep current on just everything out there, so you know, just constantly tweaking and adjusting and doing, you know, getting rid of what doesn’t work very well, and so, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:58

yeah, yeah, and it’s, it’s, it’s an endless, you know, sort of well of information, like you said, like you should constantly be learning, and also, gosh, like I know we’ve probably all experienced this as well, but like having a good teacher, it really just changes your life, no matter what subject matter, right? Like, you always remember that moment where that teacher, I think, at its core, what I think really hits when you have a good teacher is the fact that they listen to you and they respond in a way that you understand. It’s almost like they have to learn a very unique little language with you to get you to understand it, at least with painting, and I think that can make a huge difference, equally, that, like, you know, you can tell when a teacher really doesn’t care, like it’s the worst, because then that also kind of stays with you, but yeah, you know, do. Just learning from a good, good teacher, and then also from the side of teaching, you know, learning something as if you were going to teach it, even if you’re not, is also mind blowing. You can learn anything that way.

Jennifer Balkan: 1:10:14

Very good point. Absolutely,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:10:17

yeah.

Jennifer Balkan: 1:10:17

And, like, and just, and also sitting in other people’s classes, other taking classes, just like continuing your own education, is a wonderful thing. I, you know, I have the privilege of getting to sit in on my fellow instructors, colleagues’ classes, and so, and we, we encourage doing that amongst amongst our little team, so that we can, like, you know, try to stay unified, try not to confuse students. She said this, he said that. What’s the, you know, trying to, like, minimize, like, too much contradiction and conflict, but all, but just, I just, I get so much out of being getting, you know, getting to learn from them as well, and like, oh, wow, I love the way they just described that thing that I understand and describe in a slightly different way to students, like, oh, cool, I’m gonna, I’m gonna use that, like, that will work. I like that, you know, and so that you know, that’s just what I.. I feel very lucky to be able to do that, and then, and to continue my own learning with, with all of that.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:36

Absolutely, yes. And then I also wanted to ask, because you know, teaching, I’m guessing, is a good amount of your one of your incomes, which is great. So many artists, when they, you know, they teach workshops, or they teach at academies, that’s a great source of income, because you get to keep a good amount of it, compared to, you know, working with galleries, of course. But what have, in terms of, you know, making a living as an artist, would have been, would have been some of your income streams that have worked for you, and your unique way of approaching, you know, your business, because everyone does it a little different.

Jennifer Balkan: 1:12:12

Sure, yeah, I mean, really, I would say teaching is really the main one for me, or has been I’ve also done, you know, and continue to do commission work, but really that’s it, that is pretty much it, you know, and being kind of open to different upper, you know, different kinds of teaching in the past. Yeah, I feel like I feel fortunate that that has worked for me, because it doesn’t work for everybody, and not everybody likes doing it, and I, you know, that’s totally fine. So, because it’s worked well for me, I’ve been just keeping, you know, with that predominantly, and I, you know, it’s funny because even in times where I have taught a lot less and I have way more studio time, I.. it’s isolating, you know, it’s sort of like it’s funny because I, I’m around people, you know, as far as, like, professionally, art, you know, art wise, way more than I was before being involved in Dojo Academy, and so there was a time where the life that I had, like, I guess maybe five years ago. Well, I don’t want to. It’s funny, I’m saying five years, I’m like, not the pandemic. I didn’t mean that, like, let’s say before the pandemic would look like, like in the past, past I would have said, oh my gosh, like that is the ideal life. You’re in your studio all the time, teaching your occasional class, and like, what a dream life, you know? Just, just you and your work. So I did that for, you know, a good number of years, and, and it was good for a while, and then it was a little lonely, and even, you know, and I would really look forward to those classes that I would have once a week or twice a week, maybe, and, and you know, place like, oh, cool, my like infusion of and, and like, an open, you know, open studios, it wasn’t as if like I was I was seeing painter friends and such working from models occasionally and such, but like, but anyway, kind of like living the life that I thought I wanted, I. And yeah, kind of felt, felt pretty isolating, and so, and didn’t even realize it until being involved with the school as I am that I have, yeah, it just, it feels there’s just a lot more community, I guess is really the best way of putting it, but, but just also, and maybe it’s my, it’s also my like aging self feeling a sense of purpose, like a sense of giving back, which making art can feel, you know, very narcissistic at a lot of times, it’s like, oh, here I am making my paintings. It’s all about me, my voice, you know. It’s like, here I’m talking about, like, finding our voice and all that stuff. This is what we, what we yearn for, but, but then it’s like, here, buy my work, buy the thing that I’m putting out there, that’s me, you know, that’s which, like, it’s all a matter of perspective, but, um, but I think, like, um, there’s I I think, and maybe it’s just sort of like my years doing this, I, it’s a, it’s a nice balance, you know, and people have different ways of balancing that, all different, you know, all kinds of different ways, and, and, and, so, and I, and I see, like, yeah, just like cool pursuits that other, other, other artists choose to do, whether it’s like working for some kind of organization that promotes the arts in some way for young people, or, you know, all kinds of stuff, but I have found that it, like, for my, it really just, it helps, it, it has given me so much personal satisfaction, in terms of, like, what is this all about, anyway, kind of stuff. Yeah, like putting my work out there has been a big drive for me, but also just to be able to kind of pass it, pass this on, not, not, not my paintings, but like pass this wonderful knowledge and practice on that, that is just a beautiful part of humanity to others who will also yearn it is just like it feels, it feels like a higher purpose for me personally, and that feels, you know, it feels, feels nice, because there’s a lot of questioning about all kinds of stuff right now, and on our planet, and so I’m like, if we can just be remembered once we’re, you know, we’re ruled by the robot overlords, or whatever, whatever’s about to happen to us sooner or later, like humans, they made art, they passed art down, they, they communicated visually, they shared that experience with each other, and like, that’s that’s a bigger thing,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:18:08

yeah, yeah. And, and you know, speaking of lineage, I mean, it’s what, you know, what we’re doing is literally what’s been happening since the beginning of, you know, cave drawings, you know, yeah, we’re still doing the same thing, just unga boom, pointing it. This is, yeah,

Jennifer Balkan: 1:18:26

exactly, exactly the

Laura Arango Baier: 1:18:28

deer that’s over there, and it’s fulfilling, because it feels also like, you know, to add to what you said, is like we’re we’re just following this very long lineage of human creative expression on two dimensional surface of some sort, which is beautiful when you think about the grand scheme of humanity, and what we’ve done, and I think it’s important to remember that, yeah, because even if our name gets lost right in time, maybe someone we taught remembers us and mentions it to their students, and then, yeah, you know, you never know, life is strange. Then I wanted to ask you, if you have any final advice for someone who wants to become a full-time artist, do it,

Jennifer Balkan: 1:19:21

because you cannot not do it. It’s really hard. It’s really frustrating. There are ways your ways to make some sustainable living decent money, like I’m not even talking about like oodles of money, here I’m talking about like a decent, a decent income. There’s such easier ways to do it, so you just have to really want it, and, and, and be ready, you know. We’re talking about income, sort. And such, you know, like, really, really be ready to embrace various income streams, and that is perhaps, you know, there’s something that you’ve worked at that’s not art related that you can, you know you’ve become successful at, and you can hold a job part time that doesn’t take too much of your mental and physical energy that you know in that during your other hours you’re too tired or too spent to be able to make art, so there’s that, or art related, you know, but, but it’s, I think it’s really important to be very realistic about the fact that you’re going to have to make some money between your paint, you know, between your ups and downs of your painting sales, but while you’re maybe working on a body of work for exhibition, there’s a chunk of time that you’re doing that that you’re not necessarily like churning paintings out to sell right away, so there are those spans of time, and so that you need to make some money between that, so, so, anyway, I just, I think it’s a very, very important aspect of, of, you know, thinking about what life will be like to try to make a living as an artist, and that, you know, it’s time, it’s time, and discipline, and you know, getting back to the whole process thing, like you have to just love the act of doing it, and just really have to love it. You have, you have to love the discipline of it, and be willing to put those hours in, and try not to compare yourself to others, you know, which is really, really, really hard these days. You know, we all follow a gazillion artists and enjoy that, and see art, you know, scrolling on our feeds and such, and, and it’s very easy to kind of get caught up in that, and, and be driven, you know, by that, and by, like, okay, I make this piece, and share, and see what the response is, and all that stuff, and, and that can really suck the suck the life out of you, as I have personally experienced, and you know, being willing to kind of take full on breaks and, and sort of work without distraction, like really try to remove all the chatter, the noise, so that you can put yourself to work and also be ready to, for to be able to be self-disciplined and self-motivated, you need that. So those are my little bits of advice, but it’s, but it’s all pretty beautiful. I mean, that sounded very, very like harsh, and like, but I think it’s important to, you know, to really be realistic, like, you know, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s hard work, and also wonderful and beautiful, which is, you know, why we did, why we put the hard work in,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:17

exactly, and to add to the, you know, comparing yourself part, instead of, you know, instead of go touch some grass, which we should go touch some grass, go touch some paintbrushes, like, stay away from your phone, touch some paintbrushes,

Jennifer Balkan: 1:23:34

yes, such a pencil,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:36

and

Jennifer Balkan: 1:23:36

to add to what you just said, like the little touching of grass, it’s you have, yeah, you know, we’ve been, you know, of course, talking about all the, all the painting and art, and being in your studio stuff here, but, but, whatever, whatever it takes for you as a person to sort of like fill your cup, you know, and actually I love being outside and and cycling and stuff, and so, like, and that’s when I’m out. It’s really when I’m not in my studio, and I’m outdoors, and often by myself when I have, like, moment to really think, and not, you know, not necessarily have a lovely conversation with somebody else. But it’s like, but is when I get painting ideas, and so it’s, yeah, so that’s pretty important. Take care of your body and your mind, and in whatever ways work for you.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:24:30

Totally, totally 100% agree. You have to step away from the canvas as much as you have to step towards the canvas. Yes, yeah, and get sleep.

Jennifer Balkan: 1:24:42

So, important. yeah, that’s hard.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:24:48

But I also wanted to ask you, if you have, you know, besides your classes at Atelier Dojo, do you have any workshops or any cool stuff that’s going on that you’d like to promote?

Jennifer Balkan: 1:24:59

Yeah. Yeah, so some something new and exciting is that I am involved with a brand new gallery here in Austin, Texas, and similar to our school name, we call it Gallery Dojo, but it is independent of the school itself, so it’s a new endeavor spawned by Denise Fulton, and we will be the gallery will be featuring great contemporary representational artists from all around and includes a handful of us over at the school, so we are having sort of a grand opening in October, and I will have brand new work in there, so that’s exciting, and yeah, I’ve been, you know, I took, I took a some much needed time off after 20 after 2024 when I had two shows, two solo shows, which were very exciting, one at the Wausau Museum of Contemporary Art, and another at a gallery in Smithville, that’s not far from Austin, and, and I needed a break, I needed such a break. Oh my gosh, I didn’t realize I did, so I.. the last, you know, I can’t believe now it’s 2020 26 but the.. the last couple, I guess, or whatever year and a half or so, I have been drawing and painting as much or more than ever, but just like for paint and drawing sake, and so, and just kind of not knowing what’s next, and being okay with that, and so now I’m like, okay, I am finally like thinking about new work and new ideas, instead of just responding, which I needed to just respond, I needed to just respond in paint or in graphite or whatever to something out there, and now it’s like, alright, now I can think about creating from from inside me, so so that will be part of the show in October, and, and I do have a workshop also coming up. I haven’t done that in a few years, since since Dojo Academy. I’ve been teaching exclusively with that, and so I have my first independent workshop, a three-day summer workshop at the end of July at Atelier Dojo on harmonious color in an oil painting as we paint a figure from a limited palette, so that is what’s going on.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:27:53

That’s exciting.

Jennifer Balkan: 1:27:55

If someone wants to see more of your work, where can they go? So I’ve got my website, which is my name, Jennifer balkin.com J E N N I F E R B A L K A n.com and I also have I post regularly on Instagram at Jennifer Balkin, and a lot of you know my day to day whatevers are on Instagram, whereas more completed works are on my website, but lots of studies and stuff are I share regularly, so those are the main places.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:28:32

Perfect, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Jennifer, for the very engaging conversation. I think we could definitely go on for hours and hours if we were left to our own devices, so it’s a bit of a shame to cut it short, short, quote unquote. Thank you so much for giving us some of your time to share your, your wisdom with us.

Jennifer Balkan: 1:28:55

Thank you, Laura. It’s been such a pleasure, and really nice to connect, connecting with you too, yeah, yeah. Look forward to more. Yes.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:29:06

Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.

What called you to create?

That’s the question collectors would like to have the answer to.

At the end of this email, we’ve got a ​free PDF download​ for you called Stories that Sell Art. You can use this guide to help you craft the stories that resonate with collectors. But I’d like to explain the philosophy behind crafting these stories first....

Most artists do not start creating with a business plan. They begin because they feel The Call.

Maybe The Call came through beauty. Maybe it arrived through grief. Maybe it was felt through the “divine wound” of wonder. Maybe a teacher, a parent, a landscape, a museum, a song, a childhood memory, or a sudden moment when the world seemed more alive than usual triggered the spark of inspiration.

But somewhere along the way, something in you said:

Create.

But, the music of The Call is easy to lose in the noise of the modern world.

The world asks artists to become content creators, social media managers, shipping departments, photographers, copywriters, bookkeepers, and marketers.

But underneath all of that, the The Call remains. And your website should serve that call; it should tell the story of that call.

A proper art website should not bury your work under clutter, gimmicks, or generic marketing language. It should not annoy people with popups or be littered with ads like a Nascar rum runner. It should make your artistic path clearer. It should help your visitors understand what you are drawn to, what you notice, what you love, and why your work exists.

It should tell your story because humans think in terms of story, myth and magic. Stories are what actually move the needle on selling art. Before people buy your art, they have to buy into your art. And that means, by and large, buying into the story of you. So it’s worth spending some time to tell your story well.

Hemingway said that all that was needed to write well, to tell a good story, was to write one true sentence; a sentence that bleeds.

So today, try this:

Write one true sentence that describes The Call behind your work.

Don’t write a marketing slogan. Don’t try to think of a clever tagline. Just write something true.

Examples:

1. “I capture the disappearing quiet of rural places.”

2. “My work explores emotion through color.”

3. “I paint the dignity and beauty of ordinary people that modernity ignores.”

4. “My landscapes are an attempt to preserve wonder in a world that has forgotten it.”

Once you have a sentence like that, you can use it to shape your bio, your homepage, your collections, and even the way you talk about individual artworks.

The clearer you are about The Call, the easier it becomes for the right people to recognize the stories your artwork tells.

And, when your bio is ready, if you have a FASO account or have started a trial, you can update it easily on your FASO website ​here​.

I started this article with a question, What called you to create?

We’d love to know the answer to that question in the comments. Please let us know!

Leave a comment

PS — Here are the links to the free ebook, Stories that Sell Art. I worked hard on it, so please, after you’ve taken a look, please hit reply and let me know what you think and if you’d like more content like this. —Clint

Download "Stories that Sell Art" (EPUB)

Download "Stories that Sell Art" (PDF)

What does it really mean to “make it” as an artist?

It’s probably not what you think.

After years of talking with accomplished artists on the FASO Podcast, one thing has become clear: success isn’t a single moment. It isn’t getting into the right gallery, winning a big award, or selling your first major painting.

It’s something that changes as you grow.

Every artist’s journey is different, but these conversations revealed a few truths that seem to come up again and again.

1. Success Keeps Changing

Most artists begin their careers with a picture of what success looks like. Success could mean getting accepted into a prestigious show, landing gallery representation, selling enough paintings to quit your day job—or simply finding enough uninterrupted time to paint without being disturbed.

But once you reach one goal, another one naturally takes its place—Thats just human nature.

As Kevin Macpherson explained, every achievement simply becomes another stepping stone:

“I don’t think there’s one thing that’s going to make you all of a sudden be the star... every time you get into a magazine... they’re all little stepping stones.”

His advice is refreshingly simple:

“Finding your path that you enjoy the process, I think, is important.” — Kevin Macpherson

That idea surfaced again and again throughout the episode. Success isn’t a finish line. It’s the willingness to keep growing while continuing to love the work itself.

2. Showing Up Matters More Than Waiting for Inspiration

Every artist has days when the work flows effortlessly...and days when it doesn’t.

The difference is that successful artists don’t wait until they feel inspired. They keep showing up anyway. The Muse shows up on her terms, but it helps tremendously to show her you are dedicated and in your studio, in your sacred muse-meeting-place, working; waiting for her.

That consistency—painting, learning, experimenting, and improving over time—is what builds a career.

3. Being an Artist Also Means Running a Business

This is the part that surprises a lot of people.

Making great art is only half the job. The other half is learning how to share it with the world.

That means staying organized, communicating with collectors and galleries, keeping up with finances, and finding ways to consistently market your work.

It may not be the glamorous side of being an artist, but it’s what gives you the freedom to keep creating.

This is the part FASO can help with. For more than 25 years, FASO has helped artists build a professional online presence, connect with collectors, and spend less time worrying about technology and marketing so they can spend more time creating.

4. Failure Usually Means You’re Moving Forward

Every artist has paintings that don’t sell, shows that reject them, and mistakes they’ve made they wish they could undo, but none of those artists viewed those experiences as the end of the road. They viewed them as lessons that made them stronger.

Joseph Gyurcsak admitted that early in his transition from illustration to fine art, he landed representation with outstanding galleries—and then mishandled some of those relationships.

“I blew some of those relationships... You have to have failure. You just gotta own up to where your weaknesses are and then work on them.” — Joseph Gyurcsak

And then they got back up, dusted themselves off, and kept going.

None of them viewed those experiences as the end of the road.

Instead, they became some of the most valuable lessons in their careers.

5. Marketing Doesn’t Take Away From Your Creativity

For many artists, marketing feels uncomfortable.

Yet doing the uncomfortable things is what sets apart the successful from the unsuccessful. Several artists shared how learning marketing completely changed their careers. Understanding your audience, telling your story, and consistently promoting your work helps connect your art with the people most likely to appreciate it.

Marketing isn’t about becoming someone you’re not.

It’s about helping the right people discover art work they’ll genuinely connect with.

6. Don’t Build Your Career Alone

Artists spend a lot of time working by themselves. But that doesn’t mean they should build their careers by themselves.

Finding mentors, joining artist organizations, attending workshops, or simply connecting with other artists can provide encouragement, honest feedback, and fresh perspectives that are hard to find inside your own studio.

7. Big Careers Are Built One Small Step at a Time

One artist shared an idea that really stood out:

“Every day, ask yourself: What’s the one thing I could do today to move me toward my goal? Make that one of your top priorities before you get sucked into the rest of your day.”

— Scott Ruthven

Instead of worrying about everything you need to do, ask yourself: What’s one thing I can do today that will move my career forward? It doesn’t have to be a major accomplishment. It could be something as simple as updating your website, sending a newsletter to your collectors, or applying to a single art show. Small, consistent actions may not seem significant in the moment, but over time they build momentum and move your art career forward.

Those small actions may not feel significant in the moment, but over months and years, they create remarkable progress.

8. Hard Work Creates More “Luck”

One quote from the episode summed it up perfectly:

“The harder you work, the luckier you get.” — S. C. Mummert

The artists who seemed the “luckiest” were also the ones who consistently showed up, kept learning, built relationships, and stayed open to new opportunities.

Success often looks like luck from the outside—but persistence from the inside.

9. Only You Get to Define Success

Perhaps the most refreshing takeaway was this:

There isn’t one definition of success.

For one artist, it’s financial freedom.

For another, it’s having the flexibility to spend more time with family.

For someone else, it’s simply waking up excited to paint every morning.

The longer these artists stayed in their careers, the less they compared themselves to others—and the more they focused on building a life that felt meaningful to them.

Success Looks Different for Everyone

If this episode teaches us anything, it’s that there isn’t a moment when someone hands you a certificate saying, “Congratulations—you’ve made it.”

Instead, success is built little by little.

It’s choosing to keep learning after a rejection. It’s finding joy in the work itself. It’s building relationships, improving your craft, and taking the next step—even when you can’t yet see where the path leads.

Maybe that’s what “making it” really means.

Leave a comment

PS — Note from Clint: One of the reasons I built FASO is because I believe art is important, artists are important, and the work you’re called to create deserves to be taken seriously. We are all sharing “miracles of existence” through our art.

Yes, at FASO, we build professional artist websites. Yes, we talk about marketing. Yes, we give artists tools to present their work, tell their stories, reach collectors, and sell more art.

But that is the how.

The why is that we love art, and we want to push back against a world that too often treats art like content and artists like algorithms. The modern world denigrates Beauty in preference of profit and efficiency. At FASO, we hold Beauty sacred.

So we don’t just host artist websites. We promote artists. We feature their work. We try, in our own small way, to help more art find the people who need it. And that informs everything we do and build.

If that resonates with you, we’d be honored to have you join us.

Get Started with FASO for Free

PPS — If you’re not ready to look at FASO, you can support our mission by simply clicking the heart icon at the top or bottom of this article. That helps us reach more artists and art lovers and helps us spread Beauty to a world that is desperate for it.

—Clint

Our use of AI in this article: Some of you may bristle at our use of AI for this, so we’d like to explain: Our beef with AI is primarily when it is used in a way that reduces opportunities for artists. Our goal, in the places we do utilize AI, is to use it in a way that supports human artists.

For example, at FASO, we do not train AI on your artwork for the purposes of using it to generate alternative images. We do use AI to protect your artwork from scrapers (including other AI bots) and to detect and block spam. And we are exploring the use of AI in ways that send more art lovers and collectors to our customers.

As always, The FASO Way is an open forum, so we’d love to know what your opinion of such AI use is in the comments. And, please, as we always request, all comments must be dignified and respectful of us and of your fellow artist colleagues who may have differing points of view. We are in this together, so discussion, and even debate, is important. But hateful or threatening comments will be blocked.

“You do not want people leaving your painting.
You want them to enter your painting, stay there until they buy it.”

—Tim Tyler

In the episode of The FASO Show that aired live on June 18th, Timothy Tyler reveals The Hidden Geometry of Great Paintings. Timothy reveals how Sargent, Sorolla, and other masters use composition, movement, and “stoppers” to hold the viewer’s eye.

In this episode you’ll learn:

1. Why Some Paintings Hold Your Eye

2. The Lost Art of Composition

3. What Sargent and Sorolla Knew About Composition

4. The Secret Architecture of a Master Painting

5. How Great Painters Guide the Eye

6. The Composition Trick You’ll Never Unsee

7. Why Your Eye Stays in a Great Painting

8. The Invisible Design Behind Great Art

9. How Sargent and Sorolla Keep You Looking

10. Composition Secrets from Sargent, Sorolla, and the Masters

Timothy Tyler was our latest guest on The FASO Show program. He shares “The Power of Composition: Lessons from Sargent and Sorolla”. As a paid subscriber, we are happy to provide not only the video replay but the full transcript of the insightful session with Timothy below. Please keep in mind the transcripts are generated by AI so there may be some typos.

Creatively,

Clint Watson

FASOFounder & Creativity Fanatic

PS - This email may be too long for some email programs. We suggest you watch/read it on the web by clicking the button below. Here are some Helpful Links & Resources from the webinar. We’re also sharing Timothy Tyler’s special FASO affiliate link, join FASO today for just $99 for your first year of membership, click here.

Want to join us for the next LIVE webinar and meet our upcoming featured artist? Visit: https://register.faso.com/live-guest

Read or Watch on the Web

Transcript:

The Power of Composition: Lessons from Sargent and Sorolla with Tim Tyler

Olya Konell 00:00

Welcome, officially, my name is Olya, and this is The FASO Show. This is where we bring on various FASO artists to teach you, to talk to you, to answer your questions, because we don’t claim to be the experts. We like to bring the experts on, and you know, there’s.. it’s not just art, and it’s not just marketing here. We talk about art as well, because you can’t market your art if your art isn’t that marketable yet, right? So it’s really important, and today’s conversation is actually going to dive into that. We’re going to be talking, and I’m going to show him here on camera with Tim Tyler. He is one. He’s a very accomplished artist. You can just look behind him and see the beautiful work hanging on his walls, he’s very passionate about composition, and I’m actually looking, I’m an artist too, but I would say I’m a fleshling, I’m a young artist in my journey, I’m kind of doing it for fun, occasionally take on commissions, you know, it’s definitely something that I’m tinkering on in the background, because at some point in my life that’s going to be what I’ll devote my life to. So I am looking forward to learning from Tim today. I, you know, this whole presentation is brought to you by FASO, FASO.com. FASO is a service for artists to make their own websites. It’s a very plug and play type of system, and one of the things that we’re going to actually plug, instead of our own links, I’m going to share with you Tim’s affiliate link, Tim, and I’ll share this with you later as well. If you know anyone that wants a website for $99 for the first year, you can use Tim’s link. The credit goes to Tim. We like to support our artists, so what you know, take a take advantage of that. It’s a really good deal, and we like to think we have the best deals, actually.

Tim Tyler 01:49

When it working years,

Olya Konell 01:51

yeah, yeah, we like to think that the amount of pain that FASO goes through, you know, to try to keep things, you know, as low as possible for our artists, because we understand that, you know, being an artist is not easy, and we like to make it, you know, as easy as possible. So I’m going to share all of Tim links as well in the very beginning here, and one of the things I would like to highlight, and I’m just going to grab one. So, this is our website, FASO.com I have already shared Tim’s link. You can find it there. One of the things that we’re going to have, if you have to leave early during the presentation at any time, and if you’re not a FASO customer, FASO artist, that’s okay, you can just be an artist, and you can catch the recording later. So, watch the recording, it will be sent to you via email, but it is on our newsletter sub stack, so you can actually go to the bull. There’s a button up top for show, and right up top you can view all of the recordings that we’ve had, so definitely check them out. There’s some really good conversations, but anyway, so that’s all I wanted to share. I’m going to go ahead and bring Tim back on, and what I would, what I would like to introduce, this is a lesson. This is going to be lessons in composition. You will have an opportunity to ask Tim questions throughout the conversation. I’m going to be fielding those to Tim, so if he’s saying something and you’re like, ‘Wait, I didn’t understand that, and he’s already jumped on to the next topic, put it in the Q and A box, because you know, I’ll gently interrupt him, or I’ll, you know, kind of wave, like we actually have a quick question here from so and so, and we’re going to plug that so he can answer it. Feel free to take notes, and he, we’re going to have images on screen that I will be sharing that you know are going to illustrate what he’s talking about, because you can’t really learn about composition without seeing examples, and then in the recording we’re going to include all of these images, and actually I’m going to pull them in closer, so if you have a hard time seeing something, you know, just keep off the FASO link is not working. If you have a hard time seeing something, I’m going to make sure you’ll be able to look at it later in more detail and close on, and then also something I like to do, you know, before you dive into the talk that you’ve prepared for us, I would love to hear just a very brief, like, if somebody’s never heard of you, they’ve never seen your work, give us just a brief description about who you are and what you do, and then I’ll, we’ll take it from there.

Tim Tyler 04:45

Although I’m almost strictly an oil painter now, I used to do bronzes 40 years ago, but I stopped doing bronzes, and I draw just as a prerequisite to painting. And I did a little watercolor, those were very good, so I just focus on oil painting, but I do, I paint everything, I paint, I even paint abstracts now, but still eyes, portraits, figures, landscapes, you know, seascapes, I’ve kind of, I’ve kind of come to the point where I do all of it, and I show in galleries and museums and exhibits. Been did it for 52 years, so I have some history, and I read a lot, and go to museums, and I like history, and I like to like to read, so

Olya Konell 05:41

yeah, I can

Tim Tyler 05:42

convey some of that today to you, and I really love good questions, and the images that you’re going to show, I hope will provoke conversations about many aspects of composition. It’s very hard to find a good book on composition, I found, and so maybe I can point out some things that people have not seen before,

Olya Konell 06:06

yeah, and and I will say one of the beautiful things you were talking about, a trip you had recently, one of the beautiful things about reading, seeing, experiencing is I like to call it gathering inspiration, because the word inspiration is a very unique one, to, in to inspire, to breathe in before we can breathe out, so you know, I, I hope that today’s conversation and today’s talk will bring the, you know, the audience some inspiration. Peggy says, “Can you speak a little bit louder? I will adjust Tim’s audio in the recording for anyone that has difficulty, and try turning up your volume as much as possible. And then, Tim, do you.. I was gonna say, you do have a very soft voice, and you have a microphone, so

Tim Tyler 06:55

hope it’s working.

Olya Konell 06:57

Yeah, it’s working. I can hear you. I mean, I think it’s working. I can hear you great, so we’ll just keep that in mind, that if it gets too quiet. Perfect. Sorry, appreciate it, you guys. And we’ll do our best, like I said in the recording. I have, I can push buttons, and I can make things louder and clear, and all that fun stuff, but yeah, no, I’m excited to hear about, yeah, because you, you are right, and in our promotional video that we shared, I used a clip from the podcast recording where you talked about how composition is almost like a lost art, and back in the day, even collectors had a greater, you know, understanding. They could talk about it, it, you know, they could discuss it, you know. They, so, you know, that is a really good point. And I think artists are the only ones really focusing on it, because we’re the ones, you know, you know, we have to create the work, but I think that in today’s world, what I would like, you know, for you to kind of cover is in today’s world, there’s a lot of artists that may not have gone the traditional route of education of going into an art academy, you know, so a lot of artists are somewhat maybe start out self-taught, but then they’ll go take workshops from other artists, and you know they’re the learning never ends for us as artists, I think, but because they’re, you know, they’re going into it through these other routes due to the power of the internet, I think having these talks and these topics covered and making them accessible is so important, because they might not have been exposed to a good composition lesson. So, anyway, I’m going to let you take the floor, like I said. I’m going to make myself small, and I’m just going to, I’m going to be in charge of making sure I have the images on the screen.

Tim Tyler 08:57

Excellent, mr. Sorolla. So, this is going to be Soraya and Sargent, mostly a few other people tossed in, but I wish I had one of those little pointers, but I can, I can do it audibly or verbally, you see. You see that sale, how that sale goes from left to right, and then it picks up that figure over at the far side that’s leaning back into the composition that’s all very purposeful, and I think there are several examples of Sorolla here where he has those big strong sails, which are just arrows, really, and a lot of times they come from left to right, but they’re always terminate, there’s a stopper, there’s a sergeant version, we’re going to show that shows the stopper in, in perfect example, the because, because we in the Western Hemisphere read from left to right, people read paintings from left to right, and the Sorollo is a perfect example, you read from. Left to right, and because he knows that he wants to arrest that locomotion, we call it that zoom outward from the painting, and this is another example. If you look at the upper upper right side of almost every painting, that upper right corner is just boring, because you don’t want somebody to linger up in that left upper upper right corner, you don’t want them to linger up there. They start in from the left, and there’s often a lot of energy on that left edge, and you’ll see it in my still life, some things where I’ll break that left edge to allow a point of entry, but just the opposite is true on the right side. You do not want them exiting, but because we read from left to right, there’s a propensity to do that. So visual artists, some of them, I don’t even know if they do it on purpose, but they should, because it’s, it’s integral, and you see it all the time. But the sorority is one good start, but you know, although this is a good one here, this is a sergeant, I believe this is unusual, Sergeant, but so what’s interesting about this one, people talk about the golden mean and all these different things, but this is example, and there’s several other examples by Sergeant Ansaroya, and if you take the height of the painting and rotate it straight down, that’s where that figure is placed. In other words, if you take the square and rotate it horizontally, that figure is exactly that distance over. That’s the perfect place for a figure. But even in this painting, you see the figure serves as a stopper. You read from left to right, and the figure is your stopper. This is, this is a very unusual sergeant, but if you look at the same thing happens exactly where, if you take the height of the painting and rotate it horizontally, that’s where the tree is. This is nice, because these aren’t any particular order, so they’ll stimulate conversation as I see them,

Olya Konell 12:03

yeah. And you know, it’s an interesting thing that you pointed out. I had no idea about the left to right thing. I mean, I guess you’re 100% right there, because I catch myself doing that too, as I click and look at a new painting, that is literally what my eyes are doing

Tim Tyler 12:22

once she listens in, and you can’t. Yeah, here’s an example, right there. This is one of my paintings, but you see that bright wedge at the bottom of the painting, it curves up and meets that other bright ledge that comes down, and that portion had this been a rectangular painting, that portion would have rotated down into that golden mean, which is all the interest and everything is where those two elastically several lines converge there on the golden mean, and all that’s quite purposeful and deliberate, and it just feels balanced because we really do leap, we read from left to right, we just do, and Sargent was especially aware of that, even when he was young, when he was 17 to 25 He really pushed the boundaries, like with El Hileo and several other Sargent paintings. You can just see him really pushing that knowledge of left to right, it’s asymmetric balance, is what it

Olya Konell 13:26

is, but

Tim Tyler 13:26

being cognitive of the word locomotion from left to right, and you mentioned not having heard of that, I have students that take 15 workshops a year from really good people, and I’ll mention this locomotion thing, and I said no one’s ever told me that, so I thought, oh, this is interesting. So,

Olya Konell 13:47

yeah, and I’m going to go ahead, and actually I’m going to do something, not because I’m removing you from the screen, but I’m going to make the paintings bigger. When we do the recording, you’re going to be on camera as well, but just for the sake of the live presentation, I’m tweaking it a little bit, just to make it easier for folks to actually see much

Tim Tyler 14:06

better now.

Olya Konell 14:07

Yeah, so, and I don’t, I don’t even need to be in there, I can.

Tim Tyler 14:13

It’s really more important,

Olya Konell 14:15

I

Tim Tyler 14:16

don’t care about myself, but I just want to composition and design, so this is very, very handy.

Olya Konell 14:22

Yeah, and so all right, so I’m gonna grab, yeah, and it’s interesting, yeah, a lot of.. I can see why a lot of students don’t know that. I can see that being a common mistake when we’re setting something up, even if we’re painting a still life, you know, keeping that in mind can help us set up our, you know, just set everything up the way that we want it to play out, but

Tim Tyler 14:48

and it becomes instinctual. This is an example of Sargent people like Sargent for a lot of reasons, but they almost never talk about his compositional skills. With the bought daughters is one example, but for example, here, if you remove that one little petal on the far right side, the balance of the painting doesn’t quite work. That one little petal is just enough to counterbalance it’s perfect asymmetric, but again, here, if you take the height of painting, rotate it down, that’s where those figures dissect, that’s exactly the golden mean.

Olya Konell 15:24

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 15:25

it happened. It will see it over and over again. You can just continue to show paintings, and I’ll just pick up aspects of each. Okay, this is an interesting one. Okay, so this Sorolla again was aware of the left to right motion, and a lot of his sails do that left to right thing, and this one, because of the line of the ocean, is extremely powerful left to right, but he changed the sky, he brought in that pink gray part of the sky to diminish that left to right motion, so that the sails on the right side are far less important than the big white sail on the left side, and if you look at the left edge of the painting, he’s, he’s punctured, he’s broken that edge to allow you into the painting with that big sail, but on the other side, he’s created distractions, there’s a little figure there, and there’s some stuff in the horizon, but he brought in that big pink cloud, and I think I did another version with where he, without the peak, there. Okay, there he

Olya Konell 16:28

got very

Tim Tyler 16:29

deliberate, and how powerful that is. Now he was aware of that, so he brought in that pink cloud to arrest that locomotion. Otherwise, you just blow straight out the painting.

Olya Konell 16:40

Yeah, Joe says it looks like a big arrowhead. And an interesting comment I saw, I have somebody saying that they used to live in Japan, and the Japanese read right to left, and that’s how I learned that. And then somebody was saying, I have the same question, even though I’m from Amsterdam, Holland, and Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan are right to left. Do you find any? Do you do you think it’s because of how we read, Tim, that that we’ve, you know, our eyes do that? Do you think other areas where they read right to left, the art has been influenced? What are your thoughts,

Tim Tyler 17:21

things, so I have a hard time personally relating to Eastern art, because I think there is that bias that we’re built in. Look at some Eastern art, you read from left to right, it doesn’t really work, it isn’t important, and it’s more, it’s more symmetrically balanced, and there’s far less locomotion that I can discern, so I think it’s learned. If you ask if somebody, for example, if somebody were illiterate, this probably wouldn’t be a thing. So I think as we learn to read from left to right, it just gets burned into our mind.

Olya Konell 17:55

Yeah, yeah. And Betsy was saying the same thing. Some languages, same as Arabic, yeah. So that is interesting. I’m gonna actually, I’m gonna have to pay attention to that. I would love to find some artists from those other regions and kind of see the impact. And Carol says that sometimes it can be difficult for Westerners because it’s a little bit more flat, just a different style, so yeah, interesting. Okay, but and I’ll go on to the next one. Sorry. Oh, this is beautiful.

Tim Tyler 18:30

I just love these stimulus of these paintings. Okay, here, so this sorority again, so it comes in left to right, and he breaks that left side, so he comes in and see this sail sweeps you right into those people, he did that on purpose, and he sweeps you right into those two figures on those oxen, and it’s really high contrast, that one figure just extremely high contrast, but there is nothing going on on the right side, that’s that famously boring site where you do not want people to exit your painting. Some guy years ago said that you want to bring somebody into your painting, take them for a little journey, and then take them out of your painting. You do not want people leaving your painting, you want them to enter your painting, stay there until they buy

Olya Konell 19:16

it. I like that. Yeah, you know, something that caught my attention, I was like, are they riding horses? Because I see the cows facing at me, are they riding them backwards?

Tim Tyler 19:27

Yeah, I think they’re just those big oxen that they use to move the boats, and

Olya Konell 19:31

oh, I see, I see, that makes sense, they’re making the oxen pole. Oh, interesting.

Tim Tyler 19:38

Okay, see, this is a perfect example where they sort of come in, you read them in, that’s okay from left to right, but that steel allows you to exit the canvas. This, by the way, is opposite. We, we flip some of these just to point, but this really makes the point where you just go push right out of the composition.

Olya Konell 19:56

I, that’s fascinating. Do you guys, do you guys. That, so you enter in, you know, from left to right, and then you’re kind of stuck in the center on this one. I flew out of there pretty quickly.

Tim Tyler 20:09

Exactly.

Olya Konell 20:10

Wow, that is so fascinating. Okay, that’s fascinating. That’s just really cool.

Tim Tyler 20:19

This is another Sorolla Simmons, or the version before, but you see the sale comes in

Olya Konell 20:23

and the sale

Tim Tyler 20:24

picks up that boy and it retains you within. It’s almost like it’s almost like an ellipse, you see, it’s elliptical comes in and he retains you within the painting.

Olya Konell 20:36

Yeah, that’s fascinating. I had several people in the chat saying, “Wow, who knew?

Tim Tyler 20:41

I had heard that, and when I teach class, I’ve heard that a lot, and

Olya Konell 20:45

yeah,

Tim Tyler 20:46

lost things. Okay, this is kind of fun. This, this is a Venice. I just got back from Venice. This is a painting Sargent did. This is like the second or third version, but there’s an earlier version that’s the Rialto Bridge. There’s another version where it’s devoid of the people, but Sergeant, when he first painted, he said this is just too good of a placement, so he put the figure in that funnel of the Rialto Bridge, but see that line, that line is just overt, where it brings you into that figure, that’s just kind of heavy handled for Sargent, he’s usually more delicate than that, but that’s just a stream pushes you right down into that white figure.

Olya Konell 21:27

Yeah, and it’s definitely more defined, and then you know your eyes are drawn towards the gentleman with resting on the cabbages, so

Tim Tyler 21:39

even interrupts the end of the gondola, it’s not a linear break, he keeps the gondola within the composition.

Olya Konell 21:46

Yeah, a question from somebody we have in the audience, How do these concepts align with guiding the eye, not just to stay, but to settle on the right status?

Tim Tyler 21:58

Well, it’s all done very purposely, you decide what your focal point wants to be, and in my opinion, you do everything you can to accentuate the focal point. Sometimes, when a painting is sort of pleasant, but it doesn’t really impact you, it often lacks a focal point, and there could be a focal point and counterbalance, and you know, one big thing is several small things, but there still should be one focal point, and a lot of times it’s the highest contrast. For example, that gondolier that’s standing up, that’s a white gondolier on a white clothing on a black gondolier, and that’s a high contrast place, that’s another way to establish a focal point,

Olya Konell 22:43

and

Tim Tyler 22:44

because every painting you’re going to show is a good painting by an old, old dead guy. There’s this wonderful example. Okay, this is another one. This is Lake Garda by Sargent, and so you see, Sargent brings you in from the left. This was actually he rented a boat, and he went out of the lake, and he sat there, and he painted back, looking at this, and so you come in from the left, that’s quite natural, and then you swirl around, but there’s enough going on on the edge on the right that you don’t vacate, you stay within there, and it hadn’t been, wish I could point, but there’s a clutter down below the stones that kind of arrest that are right in there. Yeah, it arrests the, they want to exit, and then we have another version of it flipped, I think that will show you how important the left to right

Olya Konell 23:37

is.

Tim Tyler 23:38

No, that’s that’s okay, that’s the correct one,

Olya Konell 23:42

that’s the, yeah, well, that’s the one we were just looking at, and then the next one in, I don’t think I had a flipped one Cirque. This is

Tim Tyler 23:48

the rehearsal of the orchestra in Paris, and this is the backwards version of the rehearsal, and you see in this painting how there’s a tendency to go slide out from left to right, even this downhill line, it slides out from left to right, so if you’re, if you can find a correct version, I’ll show you how it’s this one of mine. Okay, so this is

Olya Konell 24:14

like probably the one that you had flipped that was next in the lineup, coder base, yeah, this

Tim Tyler 24:20

is this is my painting, and we’re it’s for conversation. It can read from left to right, and there’s some arresting going on, but when you see it the other way, okay? So you see it the other way, your eye goes from left to right, and suddenly this edge on the right side becomes the important part, and then you vacate the painting. There’s actually a, you see that purple V that pushes you out of the painting. That’s what I don’t want. I like the other where it pushes you into the painting. Yeah, you see now it’s a whole more inviting. Yeah, it takes you into the pool.

Olya Konell 25:00

Yeah, it does. It’s so fascinating, and I’m just going to look at the comments. Martin says, ‘My wife told me one painting to not touch it anymore with the right side just having scrambled very basic big strokes while right is very detailed. And then, yeah, folks are saying that it just feels wrong when you like flip things back around, and you’re visually comparing, you’re like, whoa. So that is very fascinating,

Tim Tyler 25:26

and to her point, or Melissa’s point, detail is a good way to accentuate a focus, you know, you have softness and vagaries, and just there’s often some painters that have only one hard edge in a painting religiously, but some painters, like Dan Gerhart, he has one hard edge in all his paintings, and rest are all softer. Yeah, to do..

Olya Konell 25:52

we’re actually going to have him on doing a demo later this year. I don’t know if he’s doing an edge demo or what, but I just remembered. So, okay, this is

Tim Tyler 26:04

the same rehearsal

Olya Konell 26:05

of the

Tim Tyler 26:05

orchestra, and this one is also reversed, so you see it’s coming in from left to right, and there’s there’s nothing to arrest it. This is an abstract painting he did, this 21 this abstract painting, which just another reason to love

Olya Konell 26:20

song,

Tim Tyler 26:20

but you see how now when it’s backwards you’re able to exit. We’ll come back to the correct version later.

Olya Konell 26:25

Yeah, and this

Tim Tyler 26:28

is the, that’s the correct sergeant, that’s the correct, that’s the incorrect, that’s the flip, that’s the flip.

Olya Konell 26:33

Oops,

Tim Tyler 26:35

okay, this can go there, okay? This, yeah, this is the sergeant, this is the actual sergeant, and so you follow in through that white dress, and you have this nice rhythm between the three sisters, and then that last sister is facing back from, she’s facing back from whence you came, and she’s the stopper for that painting, and I did a flipped version of this, which shows you the importance of the left to right reading.

Olya Konell 27:02

Let me go on to the next one.

Tim Tyler 27:05

Perfect. Now you see how that doesn’t work. You vacate the painting, you come into the painting, and you slide right out the lower quadrant. Yeah, not work, you see. Yeah, thing works beautifully, because Sargent was extremely aware of that phenomenon. Yeah, it’s simply better.

Olya Konell 27:25

The chair access is like this stopper, you know, and you’re kind of.. then my eyes bounce back, and I’m like, “Oh, they’re looking at a book. I honestly, when we were looking at this version, I didn’t even notice the book, because I wouldn’t. that’s so interesting. Yeah. Oh, I love this one of yours.

Tim Tyler 27:44

It’s one of my most recent paintings, and it was very popular. I did a painting 25 years ago, and I had several people said, if you ever did another one of those paintings, then let me know, but it’s not an easy painting. There’s a lot going on, and so I finally did another one, and actually did it as a commission, but this painting, if I may, because we have also a flipped version now. The peaches are interrupted. There you go, perfect. The peaches on this flipped version, they allow you to vacate, but this is the correct version here. Yeah, the peaches bring you in from the left to the right, and then the figure arrests you, this white figure on the dark background arrest you, and the dark picture, the dark picture, but he’s holding is a high contrast thing, which, of course, lines up with her face, but the peaches are the are one of those examples, so they bring you in.

Olya Konell 28:42

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 28:42

you look at the right side, there’s nothing there. This just doesn’t work, because you come in and you vacate, you read right, and you vacate.

Olya Konell 28:51

I didn’t even pay attention to the picture, I didn’t even linger on the girl, my eyes went kind of through her straight to the peaches.

Tim Tyler 28:58

Yep,

Olya Konell 28:59

yeah,

Tim Tyler 29:00

so

Olya Konell 29:00

yeah,

Tim Tyler 29:01

divisive, felt very purposeful.

Olya Konell 29:04

Yeah, I love that.

Tim Tyler 29:07

Okay, there’s another

Olya Konell 29:08

example.

Tim Tyler 29:08

So, this is this is maybe my most Sorolla influence painting, because I like the translucent light with his sales and things. This was a.. I live in Mexico, and San Miguel Day in and day Allende, but we used to have this festival of plants, and they did it in the local garden, and they would hang these tarpaulins of clear translucent tarps over the plants for shade, and it made the most beautiful paintings, and then some bureaucrat decided to move it out to some ugly place, but no case. Wow, pushes you right out. This, this one little thing just allows you to vacate, and even this, even this little plant that’s shaped like this, you see, that helps retain you within the painting, but if you flip it, it does just the opposite. Us it, you see, it just allows you to leave the painting, see how you out of the painting, especially that that sail, that directional thing just vacate, so it’s interesting.

Olya Konell 30:12

Now I have a question for you, when you are, let’s just say you’re gathering inspiration, whether you’re looking for a reference image or you’re, you know, painting, you know, from life, you know, you’re looking for what you’re going to paint. Do you actually stop and consider all of the live things in front of you, you know? Do you ever go in, and, you know, maybe the real life version didn’t have that tree, that plant and you add that in, you know, kind of because it would make most sense in, in your actual composition.

Tim Tyler 30:48

This is an absolute perfect example. Oh, this

Olya Konell 30:50

is an example of that. Okay,

Tim Tyler 30:52

one where I picked and shows because we had kind of a brim, Brent lighting coming down that constant rim brand lighting, it allows you to pick elements from different,

Olya Konell 31:03

yeah,

Tim Tyler 31:04

and combine them, because it’s got that same continual Rembrandt lighting, so yeah, I chose like the hanging plants, I like those, I found those from a different place, I brought those in that plant with the with the blades, I brought that in as a Terminator, you know, as a topper, I cherry pick this big time. Yeah,

Olya Konell 31:26

I see

Tim Tyler 31:29

this is a Saroya. I simply like this Saroya because it’s high contrast, and one of the things that, if you’ll notice, if you squint it down, if you squint down where almost the color disappears, still nice, it’s a great way to test your composition. Just squint it down,

Olya Konell 31:46

yeah,

Tim Tyler 31:47

you don’t see any color, but it’s still a good composition, and you see that brightest brighting is against the darkest dark right there.

Olya Konell 31:54

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 31:54

and again, that’s in the golden mean. It’s just, you see these things time and again, time and again.

Olya Konell 32:01

Yeah, this is

Tim Tyler 32:01

a similar painting, also by Sorolla, but you see how the energy comes over to that woman there, and she, the woman, is very good at arresting your attention. It’s, it’s almost parenthetical. I see again, who are just comes over, and it, you stop with that woman. Oh, this is a lovely

Olya Konell 32:21

example. This is one

Tim Tyler 32:23

of the best examples of composition in the world. And I used to

Olya Konell 32:27

teach..

Tim Tyler 32:27

I wish I had the ability, but this is an essential composition. Sargent did this painting. It’s like 88 inches square, and

Olya Konell 32:37

he

Tim Tyler 32:37

did this for a fellow artist, which allowed the artist allowed him great liberty to paint this the way he painted it, but if you paint, if you take out any element, if you take out one of the girls, or if you take out even that light in the top from the mirror, if you read that the balance falls apart, that Jesus is minimal balance, there’s only like seven components in this whole painting,

Olya Konell 33:00

but

Tim Tyler 33:00

so beautifully asymmetrically designed, but see the mirror in is right above that little girl collection, that’s quite purposeful.

Olya Konell 33:10

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 33:11

this, you see, this painting has some locomotion, because you start from the left with a little girl with the bright pinafore, and you start reading across, and Sargent was aware of that, and you see that red screen, not only is that a stopper, that’s a red stopper.

Olya Konell 33:26

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 33:26

because he was aware that he put a red stopper in the painting for design reasons.

Olya Konell 33:32

Wow, yeah. And I see this from the mirror down. I don’t know if you guys can catch that on the camera on the recording. I will have these like blown out full screen, but there’s this perfect line that goes right down to the girl, and it’s perfectly parallel to the stopper, so and then there’s just some reflective little gold lines between the red and that, and that just pulls you down. Some Suzanne says, How many times have I looked at at this and never saw it? You know, as far as cool, yeah. Frank

Tim Tyler 34:02

Bailey,

Olya Konell 34:04

yeah.

Tim Tyler 34:05

Okay, this is another one. I get excited about these, but this is another example of where you read from left to right. It’s a fairly busy composition, but nevertheless, the people over clustered in that dark mass, that focal point, and the other people, this is sort of similar to El Hillel, where you get some rhythmic people coming in from the left, rhythmically coming in, and you get this cluster of people, and there’s a little red spot, even that first, that’s again, that’s a stopper, you see the little red piece that’s an arrest you from from leaving, but there’s a, there’s a kind of a cadence. He’s really good with cadences, by the

Olya Konell 34:44

way,

Tim Tyler 34:45

like in music. He was very musical. He played piano very well, and he was aware of music, and, and so he brings you in this lyrical bouncing along, and then into that dark mass, which is. I think just some people resting, or this is the still there in Florence. That’s the hospital in Florence, I believe. That I think it still is a hospital, but

Olya Konell 35:11

yeah, that’s definitely very musical. Oh, this is this, this is almost abstract, but not

Tim Tyler 35:19

abstract, and he knew abstract design so well, I guarantee you, he moved stuff around to make this painting work, because it’s just too nice, and we know from letters from his, we know from letters from his people that he painted, he was, he was so famous that every when they had their portrait painted by Sargent, they would write letters to their friends, and those letters survive, but they said Sergeant would yank on their clothing and stuff around and change things because he wanted it a certain way. This painting is too good to just have happened. He, he moved stuff around, I guarantee he did that.

Olya Konell 35:56

Yeah, I can totally see you see that.

Tim Tyler 36:00

Okay, here’s another great one. This, this is.. I can’t remember the name something they’re making, glass or something.

Olya Konell 36:07

Yeah, Venetian glass workers.

Tim Tyler 36:10

So, I don’t know what that means exactly, but this is a good example where you come in from left to right, and that one figure arrests you, and not only does she arrest you, but that V, you see that V shape issue right back in, and you see the other V shape on the top is a V shape that points you towards her, so this V type in the center points you towards the other V shape, almost looks like a piece of like scissors, and but those, those arrest you, those those bring you into her hands, and then her face and figure arrests the locomotion, because there’s a bit of locomotion in this, it’s not real strong. Yeah, this is a

Olya Konell 36:49

this is

Tim Tyler 36:52

another painting I like. I think this is in Frisco. I think this is in San Francisco, because I saw

Olya Konell 36:59

the Breakfast Table Fog Museum. Oh, there’s

Tim Tyler 37:02

a fog. Okay, so it’s in Boston. So this is a really neat example where the figure brings you in, and the introduction from the left to the right is really not that compelling, but you get the figure, and the figure is very muted. She’s in a dark place, and it’s kind of a low contrast. But what, what resolves the locomotion? It’s kind of a moderate locomotion in this painting, is that pot, and all the detail on the table, barking jewelry, the silverware right

Olya Konell 37:35

over here. Yeah, that, that silver, that shiny silver, and then the little teapot, and then you have the roses, and then you’re drawn back into that silver,

Tim Tyler 37:44

and one of your listeners or readers before mentioned detail, and this is an example how the detail arrests you over here, that the girl in a ball, and it’s all that lacks crispness, it lacks detail, but once you get into that scintillating, sparkling stuff,

Olya Konell 38:01

yeah,

Tim Tyler 38:02

just compelling. And okay,

Olya Konell 38:05

this is lovely.

Tim Tyler 38:06

This is one of my friends, one of my friends. He saw this painting in person, and he said no one needs to paint Niagara ever again, because it’s done. Oh, I love,

Olya Konell 38:21

I love that, that light, that rainbow from the water. How, yeah, it’s

Tim Tyler 38:26

just amazing. And even the brain, bro, you see, brings you in from left to right to Dallas Moran, about 1868 I think. But see, there’s some things we can learn here. He brought in those dark clouds on the on the right side to arrest the linear motion of the horizon. The horizon would have blown you from left to right, but regarding those left clouds to arrest that, and if you look at the dark shape of those left, the clouds there, the bank of the clouds is exactly the same shape as the piece of the of the river, you see the Niagara,

Olya Konell 39:00

it’s

Tim Tyler 39:02

also a V. You see how the river arrests you, and it keeps it points you back into the composition. Dark clouds also point you back into the composition.

Olya Konell 39:14

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 39:17

he did that because you see the river, the falls start to there’s a bit of in the middle there’s a bit of an arrow that wants you to help you vacate the landscape and so he did those things I just spoke about he did those to counterbalance the exit because there’s a propensity when you read across almost wanted vacated but on the far right side, he did several elements to help retain you within the composition,

Olya Konell 39:47

and even this extra detail right over here on this rock. I don’t know if you guys can see just the detail on this. Yeah, it’s really,

Tim Tyler 39:56

and by the way, on that rock that you mentioned again, if you take that and rotate it down. Rock is almost exactly in the golden mean, that high contrast rock within all that white is is also in a golden mean. You just see these things, and once you see them, you can’t unlearn them every time you see a painting.

Olya Konell 40:13

Yes, you start looking for it. Oh, okay, that’s so that just like messes with my brain, my brain just literally tingled.

Tim Tyler 40:24

It’s hard to like it now, because it just goes whoosh right off the painting to think, and so it simply doesn’t work. It’s an interesting, beautiful painting, but you just, you just sweep right off the painting, but this painting retains you. You see, this, this couldn’t be a better example.

Olya Konell 40:43

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 40:45

this I simply like. This is some guys working.. I don’t know what they’re doing exactly. They’re weaving, I think,

Olya Konell 40:50

weaving, yes,

Tim Tyler 40:52

Venice. But the composition of this is just excellent, and that the darkest, darkest next to the lightest light, and that forms this, it’s just pure abstraction.

Olya Konell 41:04

Yeah, that’s

Tim Tyler 41:04

my complaint. Is a lot of abstract painters know nothing about design. I mean, with all disrespect, they should learn design and composition if they’re going to be a painter, and this is abstract design at its finest,

Olya Konell 41:22

I That’s beautiful.

Tim Tyler 41:24

This is mr. Church, Church, but the reason I wanted to use this is, is the water and the tree both together form something of a stopper. There’s not a lot of locomotion, but even at the top of the clouds, he broke, he broke up the top of the mountain to soften that, because he didn’t want you to exit the upper left. If you look at painting after painting after painting, the upper, the upper right of a painting is just boring, and that’s quite purposeful, because the painters through the centuries did not want you to linger up in that upper right corner, but the left side, your introductory corner, and the waterfall again is on that square. If you rotate it down, that’s where the waterfall is. It’s just the perfect square, golden mean.

Olya Konell 42:13

Yeah, and what’s interesting is, by lingering on the waterfall, I noticed the little cross that’s about, you know, another. It’s also kind of right on the third, but on the other third.

Tim Tyler 42:26

Okay, this is this was interesting when I started researching, trying to find pieces that that made my point. I found more with slow home, or this is Winslow Homer. I found more examples of Homer doing this on purpose than I did Saroya, Sorolla, it mattered less to him, but there’s several homers you see that stopper where the little almost looks like a tornado, he did that quite purposefully, and if somehow with the magic of technology, if you read, if you remove that, you just sweep right along the horizon out of the painting, but he put that little magical V in there, which corresponds with the tail of the shark, and again it’s sort of that elliptical, it retains you that that dark thing corresponds, and actually the angle of the boat goes up and picks up that it’s not quite a tornado, but that’s sort of looks like what it does.

Olya Konell 43:25

Yeah, it’s like, yeah, it’s like a little spout, a water spout. This

Tim Tyler 43:30

water is probably, yeah, that’s probably,

Olya Konell 43:32

but yeah, you’re right, it’s right north of the shark tail, and then it kind of brings you back in, and then it swoops you back in, and then you notice the tiny little boat that you might have missed, left side of the horizon.

Tim Tyler 43:45

Yes, this is one of my favorite homers. It’s got a wonderful cadence, even that dark wave in the bottom, see the rhythm up, it’s very nice,

Olya Konell 43:52

it’s beautiful. Yeah,

Tim Tyler 43:56

okay. This is a.. I had never seen this one before, but it’s a sergeant, and I’ve seen a lot of sergeant, but again, you see the little figure there, that’s actually a figure in there, and that’s.. I couldn’t tell this figure either, but right

Olya Konell 44:11

here,

Tim Tyler 44:11

but see, it’s exactly squared off. If you rotate it down, that’s a golden mean, in particular, the waterfall points you towards the figure. This little highlight on the top points you towards the figure. There’s this diagonal line that splits the composition, and it pushes you right into that figure, which would otherwise.. here, you know, who did that a lot was NC Wyeth. NC Wythe, but it’s these guys do this on purpose. I did a painting. This lady bought a painting of mine 30 years ago. She bought four paintings, and so the gallery called me in to meet her, and I was explaining to her how I painted a waterfall reminded me. I painted this waterfall, and I told her how I moved around and I changed positions to get the. Particular angle to accentuate this tree, and she thought I was lying, she thought I was making it up, she didn’t believe me, but why would we not do that? Yeah,

Olya Konell 45:10

that is fascinating. Oh, this is lovely.

Tim Tyler 45:14

This is a really good example of a stopper, and this stopper is more delicate because it comes from left to right, but that guy you see, the guy’s even looking back into the composition, the trout fish runs called this detrot stream, but you see the cadence comes across nicely, but there’s that person that arrests you again, it’s just almost elliptical, where it comes across and it retains you that the human figure, that human face is very compelling and powerful.

Olya Konell 45:43

Yeah, and what’s.. I also notice is the what he’s holding, the fishing rod lines up with the kind of the angle on the rock, which kind of creates this really nice straight line back into the stream.

Tim Tyler 45:56

Yes, and I guarantee he did that on purpose.

Olya Konell 45:59

Yeah, he had to have that’s too, too perfect. Oh, that is.. I have never.. I mean, I’ve never noticed that. And now it’s like every.. wow. Okay, that just makes me almost like

Tim Tyler 46:17

there’s a perfect example. This is the opposite. And now you vacate the painting, you read from left to right, and there’s nothing, and the initial part, even, is not that interesting, because he sort of blends in his camouflage, but psyche, we want, we want some balance and closure, but this is satisfying, you see, you come from left to right, naked, oh, there’s a guy, it’s satisfying, but there’s a lot of psychological stuff that goes into paintings.

Olya Konell 46:44

Yeah, Suzanne says, “Dizzy, exactly. When I switch, I feel a weird tingle at the back of my brain, like it’s processing too hard, like the little thing is spinning in my brain computer.

Tim Tyler 46:55

About 1o’clock on a Monday, I’ll say, is your, is your brain hurting a little bit right here? They go, yeah, it is. And I said, that’s a good sign. Yeah, learning things. Oh, this

Olya Konell 47:09

is forever going to change how I set things up. I’m just

Tim Tyler 47:13

okay. So, this is the actual version of the, the, the other Wyeth, and you see she’s she’s looking from here to there. This is not my favorite painting, but it makes the point is that you go from there to there. This is a little bit of a tennis match composition that I refer to. You go buying, buying, buying.

Olya Konell 47:34

Yes, yeah,

Tim Tyler 47:35

I don’t like that, but it still conveys the point that I’m going to make with the flipped version.

Olya Konell 47:42

Peggy asks for cultures that read from right to left. Will these compositions still work?

Tim Tyler 47:49

I think they still work, but I don’t know that they work with the same power in the same way that I can’t appreciate Eastern art. I assume that that power, that that thing that we learn, but we learn to read, I think, is cultural. I think

Olya Konell 48:07

you know, and I think for Eastern artists, or Eastern, you know, you know, people that read from right to left, there are our art might feel they might have the same experience that we are having when we’re looking at something and then switching it back and and forth, so, and, and, and I think the whole, I think the whole point of this isn’t to say we should try to appeal to everybody, but it’s just kind of, it makes a point, Who is who are your main collectors, where are you selling your art, you know, being conscious of that, so if you are, you know, out east, and everybody around you reads, you know, the other way, you don’t want to do it this way, unless you’re collectors, you know what I mean, like, unless that’s who’s buying your work, because they’re not going to maybe connect with it as easily as somebody you know would here, if that makes any sense,

Tim Tyler 49:02

perhaps some of the people watching right now that are of Eastern orientation and grew up in even hemisphere, if they could, could tell us if how they feel about that, because I simply don’t know.

Olya Konell 49:16

Yeah, yeah, it would be, it would be a good question to ask somebody and see how they feel, that would be a great poll. And somebody says, if so, so if selling paintings in China, flip your, you know, flip the image

Tim Tyler 49:30

about 12 times, and you see how now she vacates the, she kind of slides out the painting,

Olya Konell 49:36

yeah, the

Tim Tyler 49:37

other way she slides into the painting. So,

Olya Konell 49:40

yeah, so interesting. This is one of your

Tim Tyler 49:43

recent paintings, and I use that because when we flip it, it’s quite boring, quite less powerful. But one of the things I did, you see, how it’s just weird. It feels weird.

Olya Konell 49:56

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 49:58

because that purple. Cluster of flowers, and that purple piece of shiny material is also that’s elliptical, it’s almost semicircular, you see,

Olya Konell 50:10

that

Tim Tyler 50:10

just retains you, and there’s nothing of interest on the right side. All the interest comes in from here, and this is another point to mention, too, is if you look at about 85 or 90% of the portraits ever done from 1450 forward, the light comes in from the, the from the left to the right. That’s because this chiaroscuro that we see coming in from left to right is the natural way. It’s the same locomotion that we see with elements, the light coming from the left to right. You see it if you start counting, looking at famous portraits, 85 or 90% of them, the light comes from left to right. Rembrandt lighting is the exception, and I like that, but you see how this just doesn’t work, and so I don’t

Olya Konell 51:00

even notice little teapot on this 100% the purple pulls me through and then I lingered on that little pot and like look at those little details and on this one you kind of just flow right right past

Tim Tyler 51:14

it yeah it’s just not satisfying it this is this is all quite deliberate but it’s kind of fun to

Olya Konell 51:19

yeah oh and this is the one I think

Tim Tyler 51:23

Lake Garda of Sargent.

Olya Konell 51:27

This is the reversal of it. Yeah, this is what you were trying to show earlier.

Tim Tyler 51:31

So, this, this shows you, you come in from left to right, and this one building does help arrest the locomotion, but still, there’s this big sweep of the arts itself, and it just pushes you outwards. This one brightly lit house over there that helps arrest the locomotion a little bit, but

Olya Konell 51:51

the

Tim Tyler 51:51

original version is simply better, and I thought this was a good example to show that even the dark part of that inner harbor, the dark part is also an arrow, and so I think this simply works better.

Olya Konell 52:07

Yeah,

Tim Tyler 52:08

this is another example of Sartre. I think the Sergeant in Venice, you see how the cross is lined up with a figure, and it’s just a perfect way to arrest you. It’s just there’s so many examples of Sargent, he just knew this stuff so well. There’s another one, see, he’s also in Venice here, and the girls, you see, the women are softened. It’s that doorway that’s the most compelling part, because it’s a high contrast, and again, if you rotate the painting, if you take the eye to paint and rotate it down, you’ll find doorways right on the Golden Mean,

Olya Konell 52:43

yeah.

Tim Tyler 52:45

Okay, this is this is famous El Hilleo, and it’s in Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum, and this painting works both ways, but this is the correct version, and you see he creates this cadence with the guys, and even the guitars, there’s this cadence, and she comes along, and she’s right on the golden mean again. If you rotate the painting, she’s on the golden mean. Now, this is the backwards version, which is not that bad, because she’s leaning in, and the guys in the background, but in my opinion, again, he used that red stopper, by the way, in the correct version, but she’s a red stopper. He used a red stopper. I mean, how overt can that be? He does it time and again, so not only is it stoppers like a red stop sign, and so we don’t get that this time, and because, because the stoppers on the wrong side, you kind of bounce along, and you just exit the painting with the players, but the correct side, there’s that red stopper, there’s even a hand going up, and it, it’s just all done deliberately. He’s 24 years old when he painted this.

Olya Konell 53:56

Wow, that’s impressive. I have Noreen asking, I get the need to rest on the right of the painting. Can you talk more about why to, or how to arrest the locomotion?

Tim Tyler 54:09

Well, actually, I spent a lot of time, and Sargent clearly also spends a lot of time arresting locomotion, and not, not all, not all paintings have strong locomotion. This one is a very strong example of locomotion, but a portrait has virtually no locomotion. But you still bring the light in from the left to the right, simply like it is on my face now. You bring the light in from the left to the right, it just flows more naturally, and there’s sergeants that are painted the opposite, but they don’t flow in the same way. If you look at Caravaggio, almost all of his, you know, carescuo is from left to right, and so being aware of that, being cognizant when you’re composing, and I spend a lot of times, especially with still eye. And figures I spent a lot of time composing, but I’m ever aware of that left left to right flow, and I will do things like Sergeant did with the red, that’s that’s a third example of Sergeant using a red stopper in this conversation, but the red stopper is a, it arrests you. There’s several other things you can simply make the right side of your composition rather soft and boring. Sometimes that’s that’s all it takes, and there are many examples of that. Yeah, better.

Olya Konell 55:36

And Carol says, not only have you focused on my favorite painters, but showed it in a clear way what stoppage

Tim Tyler 55:44

is. There’s more to come. Glad it’s working. Glad it’s helping,

Olya Konell 55:51

and I think this is the last image that I have in my set. So, if you would like me to pull up any specific one, I can jump to it to cover

Tim Tyler 56:00

one. Sergeant did of a stairway, I think he’s in Italy, but stairway with round pilasters on top. But one of the first pieces I sent you was the sergeant stairway, and this, it’s one of the best compositions ever.

Olya Konell 56:16

Somebody asks, is red ache stopper cultural too? Is it? Do you notice any variations as far as, like, what folks will use?

Tim Tyler 56:28

That’s another very good question. And I don’t know the answer to that. I tend to think that those of us - I’ve had a few students that are colorblind, and it’s a whole different conversation with them, but if we’re not colorblind, then I do think red, red is attractive, and as a, as a people wear red shirts to look attractive, or red dresses. But let me just talk about this painting, and maybe come back to that. This is this is one of the best compositions ever done, and when Sergeant did this, I guarantee you, he moved around until he got just this angle, and that cypress tree behind that main ball, I bet you, he moved that cypress tree around to help the composition, but look at the negative shapes behind those three dark balls on the top, you see every negative shape behind all of those is different. The negative shape behind the big pilaster, I don’t know what you call that thing, but pilaster on top, that negative shape is different. But the whole sweep of this brings you in from left to right, and then it terminates you again if you rotate it down. It’s exactly in the golden mean, where the edge of that building is. But the rhythm of this painting, if you squint it down, it’s good. If you even if you flip this painting, it’s not bad. You can flip it upside down, and some abstract painting, but it’s just so neat. There’s there’s all that directional stuff in the lower part there, all those you see, those arrows all pointing you towards the dark ones, and those dark ones are very satisfying. Stopper, and see, these are these are a dark stopper. Another thing Sergeant did is he brought those white clouds in. Those clouds were done on purpose to accentuate the contrast of that dark ball. He used clouds all the time for that effect. He brought those clouds in just to increase the contrast between the dark.

Olya Konell 58:30

Absolutely, yeah, he did a fantastic job here. And a couple questions here that folks had, so we want to talk about red, but also, you know any guidance in applying these principles to abstract painting, because one of the things that you had talked about,

Tim Tyler 58:48

please do I, I have seen so many people do abstract paintings, first of all, they don’t know the technology, they, they do things that will fall apart in 10 years because they haven’t studied chemistry and they put gesso on and then they’ll put oil paint on and they’ll cover it with gesso and there’s just there’s no reason not to be educated about your pet profession or even your hobby there’s no reason not to be you know just to read more and to go to more museums, but I think abstract painters need to learn composition just like everybody else, and you have to learn it to the point where you absorb it, you absorb it into your heart, you know. By the time Sargent was 25 or 30, he had all that compositional sensitivity built in, and this is a later painting, I think. If you can see the pain in person, there’s a wonderful brush strokes up in there in the foreground, which are really nice. But

Olya Konell 59:52

would, would you, if somebody’s doing abstract, would the also the advice be, I’m just thinking, like, if I was going to do an abstract. Um, maybe would it be helpful to take like prior work that led just say that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to look at things I’ve done and I’m going to analyze them and see if I’m backwards or however, and you know, I’m almost wondering if it would be useful to like print it out on a piece of paper and then kind of cut the elements around and see if that would make sense, or do it on a computer with, like, Photoshop or something, just to kind of experiment to help with future planning, you know.

Tim Tyler 1:00:31

And to do them small, even to do a little sketch like this, if it works in a three by five, it’s a bigger painting, and consequently, if it doesn’t work this big, it’s only get worse bigger. Yeah, take you can take this sergeant, for example, turn it upside down, flip it, and look at the composition. It’s still balanced. And I started doing abstracts because they were selling here, and so my gallery asked me to do some abstract paintings, and I sold one in four days. It was expensive, but I used all these, I used all these things that I’ve learned for 52 years in my abstract paintings. Actually, maybe we can add some of my abstracts in the video version. I’ll send you some.

Olya Konell 1:01:16

Yeah, and I do. You have them on your website, because I can. I do.

Tim Tyler 1:01:20

Yes,

Olya Konell 1:01:22

you have

Tim Tyler 1:01:25

the contemporary pieces. I

Olya Konell 1:01:27

contemporary. Okay,

Tim Tyler 1:01:29

there we go. There’ll be some abstract versions there.

Olya Konell 1:01:31

Okay,

Tim Tyler 1:01:32

okay. Here we go. You see that the red circular disc? You see how that comes in from left to right, and it arrests you. That bright spot is in the golden mean, it comes across and it arrests your motion from left to right. It’s that’s that’s traditional painting, and this one you see again, you read this is more like Rembrandt lighting, but you’re still reading a little bit from the left to the right, and that’s why I biased that copper to the far side, and this is also something we haven’t spoken about, is that this is a color contrast, where I had this antique copper pot, I wanted to accentuate it, so I used the opposite on the color wheel.

Olya Konell 1:02:14

I just love how you made it feel so three dimensional, three dimensional, yeah,

Tim Tyler 1:02:20

this one is a red sergeant stopper. You see the red bridge again, and there’s that red elliptical stopper, not a sergeant stopper, but he did the red stop. Yeah, this one has seen this is an example of painting that doesn’t have a lot of locomotion. It more just sweeps you inward towards the middle, almost like a portrait, a portraitist is a version. There’s very little locomotion, because the human face is very arresting to other humans, and when you do a portrait, there’s virtually no locomotion. But this is a, this is a painting exempt from locomotion, really.

Olya Konell 1:02:59

I’m gonna grab a couple comments, Christine says, just, just a comment. I’m off Tim’s tack room painting. And then Patty says, Thank you very much. This was so interesting. And then Laura says, shows the importance of taking time to do those boring thumbnail sketches. Yeah, yeah, that’s very true.

Tim Tyler 1:03:16

They’re very motivating. You tell the thumb goes, whoa, this is nice. And then up, and you can refine it, but that the little thumbnails are quite motivating.

Olya Konell 1:03:26

They’re, they’re forgiving too. You’re not investing too much time into something that doesn’t work,

Tim Tyler 1:03:32

and you can do a little thumbnail and get a nice little value study with pencil or charcoal, and then you can introduce little pieces of color, like little construction paper of red or construction, and start to figure this is a painting that’s quite abstract, and it doesn’t have a lot of locomotion, but nevertheless, that the focal point is still in that golden mean with that brightest bright in the middle.

Olya Konell 1:03:57

Yeah, and you know that line, though, still pulls you through like that. There is that direction

Tim Tyler 1:04:05

again. The elliptical stop, really, too. You see,

Olya Konell 1:04:08

yeah. But I see what you mean, even with abstract, having, you know, and this is the light on the left, slightly. You know, I can see that. That’s lovely. Yeah, that’s very, very good examples. Oh, this is this

Tim Tyler 1:04:27

is fun. This was fun. This painting again, there’s like a Rembrandt lighting on this one, but one of the things I did here that you can’t see is that little paper airplane is very thick, it’s very impasto, and some of the other stuff, like the shadows, are very thin, because that’s another thing people did for 400 years, is you paint your brights really thick and dark soft, so they can recede.

Olya Konell 1:04:53

Carol says, what I’ll do now is flip all my compositions. I know I literally want to go. Like after this, I know what I will be doing. I’m gonna go look through my sketches, I’m gonna go through my doodles, and just see where am I landing

Tim Tyler 1:05:12

people.

Olya Konell 1:05:13

Yeah, and Sharon says, “Thank you so much, Tim. I, and only I, I learned so many new things. I learned so many new things, too. Christine says note, I know how to say it. No tan, right? Thumbnail sketches are things I have come to appreciate. Gary says Devo rock band, you must flip it. Oh, the song. This has been a fabulous class. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, you’re so generous, says Julie. I have a question. Do you still teach, Tim? Do you, are you still actively teaching, or are you ever going to teach again?

Tim Tyler 1:05:51

Well, if I were enticed, I would teach. I like to teach. I found that I used to go to other places, but when I do it in America. About 20 years ago, I was teaching every three weeks, kind of enough. I get tired of getting on an airplane every three weeks, but you know, I would teach six weeks a year. If there’s an academy or somewhere that invites me to teach, I like it. Yeah, my students like it. And so I could do it again, but I find where I live now, the influx of students into Mexico has really been diminished lately, with some of the news from Puerto Vallarta, etc.

Olya Konell 1:06:32

Yeah, you know, maybe someday you’ll do some destination kind of packages or something, but I heard you’re writing a book,

Tim Tyler 1:06:41

yes, and I went to get away from the distractions, because I knew I didn’t know what I was doing, really done a few articles, but I wanted to write a book about painters and the reality of painting. You read The Old Man of the Sea, where he talks about fishing, and you know that the guy that wrote the book knows how to fish well. I’ve read so many books about artists that you can tell that’s a writer and not an artist. That’s wrong, they just do. So I want to write a book about painting, and then include about 18 of my paintings in the book, and write a story about what led to that painting, kind of

Olya Konell 1:07:26

the

Tim Tyler 1:07:26

backstory.

Olya Konell 1:07:27

I love that kind of.. I think that’s a fantastic idea, and I think there’s.. you’re right, there’s so much.. it’s. it would be like me describing what my husband does for work. I’ll give you a visual, but I’m going to get a lot of things wrong, so yeah. One Joe asks, do you use rotational symmetry?

Tim Tyler 1:07:57

Rotational symmetry, I don’t know what that means exactly.

Olya Konell 1:08:02

Yeah, Joe, if you can elaborate, that would be awesome. And then Sandy says, agreed. So many interesting concepts I’ve never learned before. Thank you. Yeah, so, and so, as Christine says, I love to read, so write fast.

Tim Tyler 1:08:18

Let’s sleep, check back in a year, it’ll self publish, and it’ll be on my website. So, about a year from now, check back in. Do you,

Olya Konell 1:08:27

do you do a newsletter or some way folks can sign up and like get notified or something like that?

Tim Tyler 1:08:35

Yeah, so write me by the way in anticipation of this podcast, my subscriptions have just skyrocketed. It’s huge. I checked the analytics, it just through the ceiling. So, hopefully we’ll get some more signups for that. And should I ever do a workshop again in the States or in Italy or somewhere, I’ll announce it, but I don’t like doing the logistics of that. In the past, the museum - there’s a museum that hired me to do three years of workshops, and that was fun. I just showed up. I was done at 4o’clock I didn’t have to babysit or set up train tickets or anything.

Olya Konell 1:09:18

Yeah, it is a lot, especially, yeah, but you know something. I was gonna say, I’m sure the audience would appreciate that. If you ever get inspired to share your thoughts, you know, off the cuff, you know, record your thoughts and share them. There’s, you know, whether it be in, and this isn’t like marketing advice, this is more or less just to put it out there, you know? You could no fancy editing, record a video with your phone, throw it on YouTube, and then send it out to your newsletter, and be like, hey, here’s some thoughts on whatever it is, because there’s. So many amazing artists like you to have learned so much, and you know every artist is influenced by another artist. We all kind of learn from each other, and it’s just that’s the way it’s always been. It would be just amazing to like capture those pieces of your brain and put them somewhere where they can live and continue to inspire.

Tim Tyler 1:10:20

I’ve got to do more of that, and Clint talks about that. Yeah, I know I need to do more. A YouTube channel, it’s Timothy Tyler.

Olya Konell 1:10:29

Oh, okay.

Tim Tyler 1:10:30

History or something. There’s six, but there’s a.. there’s actually a conversation on there about composition, and the Sergeant Painting is on that YouTube. My little baby.

Olya Konell 1:10:43

Well, I’m going to find it right now for us, because here, here’s, here’s what from the marketing side, what’s working now. FYI, for anyone listening, because of AI, just candid, shaky, like it doesn’t have to be perfect, it matters what the message is, so you don’t even need a fancy camera, you don’t need fancy editing, you could literally just set it up and just record it that way, and be like, hey, I really want to show you why, you know, and I’m encouraging you to do it, because it was so valuable to me and to the audience, I think it would just be fun, even like once a month, share your thoughts. Try to Tim, what’s your YouTube channel called?

Tim Tyler 1:11:26

It’s Timothy Tyler. Often, if you just Google Timothy Tyler or Timothy C. Tyler, there’s a couple other artists that are not me. But

Olya Konell 1:11:37

yeah, there you are.

Tim Tyler 1:11:38

That’s me right there. But see, one of those is a conversation about Sargent and landscape painting. I don’t know which one it is now, but it’s Sargent landscape painting. It’s from a classroom. One of my smarter students said, “You’ve got to be recording these. Oh, there’s a Sergeant conversation.

Olya Konell 1:11:57

Oh, this one right here,

Tim Tyler 1:11:59

guys, would enjoy that, because it’s a lot about conversations, and it would be fun, because it’s similar to what we just been talking about, and I’m going

Olya Konell 1:12:09

to share the link to it. It’s the ad on my screen right now. I clicked it, and then you guys, yeah, check it out. I think that’s, I think that’s lovely that one of your students did, did that,

Tim Tyler 1:12:22

but she did it for me. Yeah.

Olya Konell 1:12:25

No, I really appreciate this. Was so valuable, and I’m encouraging folks that are listening to go check out, subscribe to your newsletter, because you know, even though you don’t send them out often, you said you do more. I think, as artists, frequency is what works for us, so, like, you know, you sharing about Italy and Spain, it’s kind of cool. We can go back and read your older, older ones if we want to, but check out his archive as well.

Tim Tyler 1:12:54

One of the things I would say about workshops, if you live somewhere, say you live in Cincinnati, and there’s a good art school there. Tell the art school that you want me to come, and they can make an offer, and then I can just show up, because there are about 20 good art schools right now in America that teach really good. They have really good teachers, almost without exception, they have really good teachers coming in, and, and I would do that. Yeah, a lot of school,

Olya Konell 1:13:24

I think that is a great idea. And Carol says, “Do you like Florida?

Tim Tyler 1:13:29

I have never been to Florida. I’m one of the few people in the whole world that’s never been to Florida. I’ve exhibited in Florida timeless, time and time again, but I’ve never taught a workshop there.

Olya Konell 1:13:40

Oh, well. Carol, if you’re in Florida, talk to a local place somewhere where you can open. I just shared the wrong link, so just, okay, just as a heads up on that $99 link, that link is right, it just is being fixed as we speak, so it will work if you just save it. It’s that last link that I had put up, for some reason it was something they forgot to do on their end, but it says “Your ill not found now. It will find it. Just check back in a few hours or something. But yeah, but anyway, no, this, this, this has been great, and I appreciate everybody that has held on. We’ve gone a little bit over. Is there anyone have any last minute questions for Tim? Tim, do you have anything else you want to share?

Tim Tyler 1:14:35

Well, I love good questions. I had a, I had a, I taught in Raleigh one time, and I had this one guy who was a, he was a psychologist, MD, and he taught at Harvard, and he took my class, and he’s also an eye doctor, and he was trying to figure out how the eye talks to the brain, and so he took my first class, and then he took my other two classes each day. Right, and he had the best questions, he had questions that I’d have to say yes, and really love those good questions, and I’ll answer if somebody just emails me, I’ll answer,

Olya Konell 1:15:16

okay,

Tim Tyler 1:15:16

just to, so

Olya Konell 1:15:18

yeah, so folks, if you have questions, reach out to Tim. Connect with him. I love you know that’s the thing that I love about all of our amazing, you know, all of our - I call them you guys are like the signature, the masters, that all the FASO artists that are, you know, that we all aspire to be someday. You know what I love about our amazing group of artists that we bring on that we’ve had a chance to work with us, you guys are all so kind and humble and giving of your knowledge, and it just makes me really proud to be an artist, and I hope you guys feel this the same way. Artists, we do have that culture of like helping out the other, it really is this amazing community that we all get to be a part of, that for

Tim Tyler 1:16:05

us, you know, people get 18 and 20. When I was 18 and 20 was all paper letters, and I’ve got letters from Wilson Hurley, Clark Hill, Bill O, and I’ve got all these famous guys that I wrote to. Every one of them wrote me back.

Olya Konell 1:16:20

You should maybe publish some of those someday letters from the artists.

Tim Tyler 1:16:25

Yeah, I’ll put them in the book.

Olya Konell 1:16:26

Put them in the book. I love that, because, like you said, we know some of what we know about the old old master just from the letters, you know that that people wrote. So, yeah, I love that.

Tim Tyler 1:16:41

Interesting too, you only reason that we know what people wore before 1700 is because of art.

Olya Konell 1:16:50

That’s true.

Tim Tyler 1:16:51

Those are gone. It’s only the Greek sculptures, the paintings, the murals. That’s the only reason we know that is captured in art.

Olya Konell 1:17:00

And think about this as well. If the internet was to go away, there was something drastic that happened, you know, the AI took over and just press delete. Can you imagine everybody’s Google Drives and iPhone clouds, and you know, all the stuff that’s so digital. What will we be left as a species, as a society, as humankind, we will be left with our art, and you know, future generations can look back at us hundreds or 1000s of years and be like, “Oh, this is this is what they had, so

Tim Tyler 1:17:36

that would be good for sales, except the marketing aspect, the internet does have the advantage of the marketing.

Olya Konell 1:17:45

Yes, yeah, yeah. No, but I’m just thinking of, like, if you know, because we don’t know, we won’t be around, but it will be interesting to see if we could ever look back from the heavenly clouds and be like, oh, so there’s my painting, it’s teaching people how

Tim Tyler 1:18:03

to do this. Teaching, I’d like to speak of is everybody now is all concerned about AI, especially when you do contest. You can’t use AI, and I think that’s hypersensitivity about that is the same thing that happened about 1890 when photographs started becoming prevalent, there’s.. oh, I’m done. Nobody’s ever going to buy a painting again. Well, John Singer Sargent painted through that whole era without any problem. I think good art still has a place, and..

Olya Konell 1:18:34

and you know, I will be.. I will go as far as to say, and I’m not.. I’m saying this because this is what the marketing gurus in the non-art space are saying people are being drawn towards the tangible, like it’s just increasing in value, so something handmade is more valuable. Secondhand is becoming more valuable because inexpensive and cheap clothing or furniture is just available from the push of your button on Amazon, like the things that are handmade take longer in person experiences art. I think it’s actually going to increase in value, and I’m seeing more people that I never would have thought would get into collecting art getting into collecting art, you know, in the social media space, you know, I’m just noticing it becoming more of a trend, so, and I read where current trends are pushing us back to romanticism. Yes, I are. Yeah, I’ve read the same thing, vinyl records. Yes,

Tim Tyler 1:19:35

yes.

Olya Konell 1:19:36

Did you know, apparently VCRs are $100 on eBay, because no one’s making them, so now I don’t know who’s buying them, but they’re selling for these two young kids, go to garage sales. I watched a little story about them buying up garage sale VCRs and selling them for 100 or more on eBay, so

Tim Tyler 1:19:56

well, there was a two guys, Richard Smith and David LaFell. Printed books in the 70s, and their publisher decided, for whatever reason, not to republish, but their books are three or $400 now on eBay. You would think they would say, “Okay, we should republish. I mean,

Olya Konell 1:20:13

yeah,

Tim Tyler 1:20:15

so I don’t know.

Olya Konell 1:20:17

Yes, on flaws, it’s called Wabi Sabi, Japanese highly valued original, and what it has a flaw, because it’s the only one collectible coins. Yeah, like you know, printed currency is the same way. So I think that’s a beautiful message to kind of like wrap up with, is like, keep painting, be original, don’t let you know, don’t let all that AI stuff get in the way, and really go back to the basics, because that’s like I said, I’m going to do, I’m going to go, I’m going to look at what I’ve done, have an honest chat with myself.

Tim Tyler 1:20:55

I’ll tell you something that’s very old school, that people don’t say much anymore, but it’s what those guys, when I was 1819, 20-four years old, those guys that wrote me the letters, I was using a lot of photographs back then, and all of them wrote me, and they said stop using photographs, but see, they could tell from my paintings that I was using photographs, so paint from life figures that everybody wants you to go to college, and they have you paint the figure or draw the figure from life. That’s the hardest thing in the world to do. You shouldn’t be doing that, but you can draw still lives, could paint still lives. So, once you spend 10 years doing that painting from life, you will have so much here that then you can go back and utilize photographs. But I still paint from life a lot.

Olya Konell 1:21:42

Yeah, I need to do more of that. This is such a good reminder. Christine says this has been a marvelous session. Thank you so much. Another artist said, paint from memory. Yeah,

Tim Tyler 1:21:57

I have painting from memory. I’m inspired from memory, but I find that memory is fallible, and I will recreate a memory, and then I have more concrete, tangible, reliable information that sounds,

Olya Konell 1:22:14

yeah, very good. Well, I am very grateful. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. Thank you, Tim, for taking the time out of your day, and thank you for holding on in the beginning when we were having.. no, no, not, not, not at all. I’ve trust me, I’ve had bloopers, I had my mouse disappear on me, so I couldn’t control my keyboard, and somebody says, “Where’s the cat? You know, so I stuff happens. If you have any little messages you want me to share with Tim, throw them in the chat right now, because I’ll grab the chat recording and I’ll the comments and I’ll send them the email to Tim, so he can review them, or email him if you’d like. This has been fun. I love this.

Tim Tyler 1:22:58

Well, thank you. Good questions, by the way, really good questions.

Olya Konell 1:23:01

Yeah, thank you very much. And with that, I’m going to thank everybody for joining us, and thank you, Tim. I’ll connect with you over email afterwards, and yeah, we’re.. I’m excited. This has been such a good, such a good session. Take care, everybody. Bye, bye, bye.

We have another post today by Eugene Terekhin, the man and the mind behind the publication Philosophy of Language.

Eugene is a regular contributing writer to The FASO Way.

This article will be locked in two days for paying members only.

Feature Article:

The Day Dante Saw Beatrice’s Eyes and Lost All His Enemies

In Vita Nuova, Dante tells of his first meeting with Beatrice and says that when he caught her gaze, he suddenly realized that no one could be his enemy. He immediately forgave everyone.

We have all experienced something like this at some point in our lives – that marvelous sense of inner freedom arising from the way someone looks at us. What is contained in such a gaze?

It is a gaze that reveals to us who we truly are. When someone discerns the mystery of our being, and we see it reflected in their eyes, we change immediately. We are reborn in an instant. Suddenly, the world itself is transformed before our eyes.

There are no enemies anymore. We find that we cannot hate anyone. If someone were to tell us that we should hate our enemies, we would not have the strength to do so. If we were told what was said to the ancients, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy,” we would simply shrug our shoulders and reply, “I’m sorry, but I can’t hate anyone now. I am too much in love.”

We would naturally – or perhaps supernaturally – find ourselves fulfilling Christ’s command: “Love your enemies.” When we know who we are, when we have read it in another’s gaze, loving people is no longer the problem. Hating them is.

Without this gaze, forgiveness is often a struggle. Not an external struggle to stop hating the offender, but an internal struggle with ourselves – a struggle born of not knowing who we are. Jesus knew who He was because He saw Himself in His Father’s gaze. That is why He could not hate.

Dante emphasizes that his ability to love his enemies came “by virtue of my hope in her marvelous greeting.” “By virtue of” means “through the power of.” When he saw the way Beatrice looked at him, he was suddenly filled with a strength that did not originate within himself.

He did not forgive his enemies through his own natural strength, determination, or moral effort. He forgave them through the power of that marvelous greeting.

The only way to become truly strong is to encounter the Divine Gaze. It is impossible to become virtuous through willpower. True virtue awakens from within when we are overwhelmed by the gaze of love coming from beyond ourselves.

In an encounter with Absolute Beauty, we melt, surrender, and become what we were made to be – lovers. In that moment, the world around us is transformed. There is no hatred left in it. We do not struggle to forgive; we struggle to hate.

And when we are asked anything – whatever problem or question life may place before us – we find ourselves giving Dante’s answer: “Love.”

By virtue of this marvelous Gaze, we become true virtuosos, for our virtue no longer arises from self-effort but from an invisible fountain within, overflowing with living water from beyond the world.

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PS — This is part of the mystery of Art—we must learn, as artists, to awaken virtue within by seeing the gaze of existence that overwhelms us; the gaze of love.

One of the reasons I built FASO is because I believe art is important, artists are important, and the work you’re called to create deserves to be taken seriously. We are all sharing “miracles of existence” through our art.

Yes, at FASO, we build professional artist websites. Yes, we talk about marketing. Yes, we give artists tools to present their work, tell their stories, reach collectors, and sell more art.

But that is the how.

The why is that we love art, and we want to push back against a world that too often treats art like content and artists like algorithms. The modern world denigrates Beauty in preference of profit and efficiency. At FASO, we hold Beauty sacred.

So we don’t just host artist websites. We promote artists. We feature their work. We try, in our own small way, to help more art find the people who need it. And that informs everything we do and build.

If that resonates with you, we’d be honored to have you join us.

Get Started with FASO for Free

PPS — If you’re not ready to look at FASO, you can support our mission by simply clicking the heart icon at the top or bottom of this article. That helps us reach more artists and art lovers and helps us spread Beauty to a world that is desperate for it.
—Clint

Success! What Nobody Tells You About Making It

New FASO Podcast (Episode 182)

What does it actually mean to make it as an artist? We’re not talking about the bubblegum advice you find on Instagram. We’re talking about the real work of being an artist; the day-in, day-out marathon; the changing goals artists experience as their careers progress. In this episode we wade out into the weeds of making it in the visual art business.

We’ve had the privilege of sitting down with some of the most seasoned working artists we know, and when we ask them about success, the answers always surprise us. So for this episode, we’ve pulled together some of the most honest, hard-won perspectives from past guests. These veterans share what success actually requires, what it costs, and what it turns into over time.

Watch or Listen to this Podcast

Join our next FASO Show Live!
https://register.faso.com/live-guest

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On today’s episode we sat down with Sarkis Antikajian. Born in 1933 in Amman, Jordan, Sarkis discovered French Impressionism and Van Gogh as a teenager — a spark that never left him. He immigrated to the United States at 25, spent 35 years as a pharmacist building the financial independence to paint full-time, and retired in 1994 at 62 to finally live his dream. He is now 93, and still paints every day. Deeply shaped by Van Gogh’s persistence, Sarkis believes in loving the process over the outcome, staying curious at every stage of a career, and painting freely without chasing validation or market trends. He has worked across watercolor, acrylic, oil, figurative, landscape, and abstraction — always seeking new ways to see.His advice to artists: find another source of income so financial fear doesn’t limit your creativity, paint often and on inexpensive materials, and stop waiting for anyone else’s approval to make the work that’s truly yours.

Sarkis’ FASO site:
sarkisantikajianfineart.com/

Sarkis’ PBS Oregon Art Beat Video:
https://www.pbs.org/video/oregon-art-beat-painter-sarkis-antikajian/

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Transcript:

Sarkis Antikajian: 0:00

And then I did that, and now I’m 93 years old. I still paint, and that’s my life, like I always say, it’s a way of life, you know. That’s the way it is. Somebody says, an artist said it’s like breathing, you have to, if you don’t breathe, you’ll be dead, and with me, if I didn’t paint, I’d be very unhappy. I had other interests, like sculpt sculpting.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:36

Welcome to The FASO Podcast, where we believe the Fortune favors of old brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I’m your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips, specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. On today’s episode, we sat down with Sarkis and Tocagian, born in 1933 in Amman, Jordan. Sarkis discovered French Impressionism and Van Gogh as a teenager, a spark that never left him. He immigrated to the United States at 25 spent 35 years as a pharmacist, building the financial independence to paint full time, and retired in 1994 at 62 to finally live his dream. He is now 93 and still paints to this day. Deeply shaped by Van Gogh’s persistence, Sarkis believes in loving the process over the outcome, staying curious at every stage of a career, and painting freely without chasing validation or market trends. He has worked across watercolor, acrylic, oil, figurative landscape, and abstraction always seeking new ways to see. His advice to artists is this: find another source of income, so financial fear doesn’t limit your creativity. Paint often and on inexpensive materials, and stop waiting for anyone else’s approval to make the work that’s truly yours. Welcome, Sarkis, to the FASO Podcast. How are you today?

Sarkis Antikajian: 2:03

Good, thank you for inviting me, Laura.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:07

Of course, I am so happy, and I feel so privileged to have you on the podcast, because you are truly a lifelong painter, and I feel like you have experienced so, so, so much, and your work is so absolutely beautiful, so I’m excited to be able to sit down and talk to you about your life and your paintings, but before we dive into that, do you mind telling us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Sarkis Antikajian: 2:35

Well, I was born in 1933 in Amman, Jordan, and I came to the United States in I was 25 years old, and my idea at that time was to study pharmacy, so that I’ll support myself eventually. and at some point become an artist. How did that come about? Is when I was 15 years old, discovered the French Impressionist, a French Impressionist book on and post-impressionist, and then next to it, there was a novel, Lust for Life, about Vincent Van Gogh, and I was just, just fascinated by the whole situation, and I couldn’t figure out how there’ll be such beautiful landscape, these people, you know, these artists painted, so at any rate I became a pharmacist. Eventually, I met my wife, Karen, at the University of New Mexico. And then, when we graduated, we got married, and we lived in New Mexico. We worked in New Mexico for about five years. Part of it is in Farmington, part of it in Gallup, but in Gallup I was sort of, or we both were sort of unhappy because of it wasn’t the type of subject matter that I would love to paint. It had nothing to do with all that beautiful landscape that the artist, French Impressionist, painted, so I just, we decided that somehow we’ll have to find a greener pasture, a greener state. So we found Oregon, and we moved to Oregon, and I thought I was in paradise. We got to about Eugene, around Eugene. We said, okay, somewhere here we’re going to have, I mean, spend the rest of our lives, and that’s where I’m going to become an artist or painter, and but. Then I ended up being a pharmacist for 35 years because I wanted to be independent somehow or another I want to find a way to be independent so that I could be an artist and and since that time, all through that time, I kept thinking of ways how to do it, and eventually I found ways to get independent, and I retired in 1994 I was 62 years old, early social security guy, and since then, after that I had this wonderful new world. Just I had to paint all day long. Sometimes I went crazy painting twice a day, two paintings a day, and at that time I was, we settled down, and just, you know, that that’s what I wanted to do the rest of it, and then I did that, and now I’m 93 years old, I still paint, and that’s my life, like I always say, it’s a way of life, you know, that’s the way it is. Somebody says an artist said it’s like breathing, you have to, if you don’t breathe, you’ll be dead, and with me, if I didn’t paint, I’ll be very unhappy. I had other interests, like sculpt sculpting, and, and writing. I love to write. I’m not a writer. I don’t send my whatever it is, poems. I just do it for my own enjoyment, but that is nothing, because I could take it or leave it. Painting is not that I talk about it, I think about it, I almost dream about it. See, and that’s that’s my life. Wow,

Laura Arango Baier: 7:18

it sounds like a very happy life to be able to paint,

Sarkis Antikajian: 7:23

actually, when you think about it, when I was young, I used to envision in my mind what type of painting I would be painting in my mind, and believe it or not, sometimes I think, okay, I reached that stage, that’s what I wanted to do, and that’s what I’m doing. So it’s a circle just going around the circle, and I ended with this. So how many years I have, it doesn’t matter. See, now I sketch every day just for my own enjoyment, just to be part of the painting establishment, I just, you know, I want to do something with art,

Laura Arango Baier: 8:09

yeah, yeah. And then, when you were, when you first saw the French Impressionists as a teenager, did you, did that inspire you to start drawing and painting then, or did you wait until later.

Sarkis Antikajian: 8:21

Well, when that happened, I started drawing. I, I had a pad, just with, you know, what called school, you know, just lines, just for writing, but I take that pad with a pencil, that’s all we had, pencil, and, and this pad or paper, and I’ll draw my sisters, I draw the dog we had, I draw these trees, just we had one or two bushes over there, or something, and I do that, if there were chickens, I’ll draw those, so I mean, I just went crazy, just growing, that’s all. I had no paint. We didn’t have paint, actually. I’ve never seen a painter at that time, or heard of a painter, or I’ve never seen a painting in real life, or even a print of a painting. So I was just just going with what these French impressions did, and especially Van Gogh, you know, when I saw his self-portrait, I said, “My gosh, I know this guy. You know, it just hit me like I.. I’m familiar, I know him, and reading his letters was something, something else, actually, later on, many years later, I still have his three volumes of letters, and I read towards the whole thing twice. Sometimes I tell my friends, have you read Van Gogh’s letters, the three volume, the. Act like what kind of crazy idea is this? Who cares about the Van Gogh? You see, I mean, anymore nowadays people, I mean, you would think they are insulting them to go back to, you know, as if so, but in reality it’s amazing. I’ve never seen an artist, or heard of an artist that you know almost everything about him through his letters, his successes, his tribulations, his problems that he had, everything, and that’s amazing, because you know, if you look at money, you think, my gosh, he’s he had God-given talent, and all of a sudden he did all this fascinating stuff, just like that. You see, you don’t really know, did he really become as a.. did he.. was he an amateur at one time? Was he a student? You don’t know anything about any of them, but you see the great art that they do with him, not so he was drawing for years, trying to learn how to draw, whether it’s a pencil, whether it’s this charcoal, I mean, he was just doing his atmosphere, and that’s what really inspired me, so I mean, what.. what else I could say, I guess.

Laura Arango Baier: 11:33

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s.. it’s.. it’s a really good point that we, when we see an artist’s work, especially from the past, we only see their best work. We don’t see the work that they burned or that they threw away because it wasn’t good enough. We just see them as these perfect people who made these incredible pieces. So, I think having that insight about Van Gogh is really important, because it goes to show that it takes work, and it takes time, and it takes years to reach a point where maybe you’re satisfied with your work, because I feel like no artist is fully, totally satisfied with their work,

Sarkis Antikajian: 12:13

and yeah, and most of us, at least I know I am, or everybody, maybe all others, we are insecure. We are always trying to evaluate what other people’s perception is about our art, whatever it is we do today. I mean, even if we say, “Well, we don’t care, that’s not true. Every one of us wonders, what do people think now with this Van Gogh business? Now he didn’t really care. He painted grass, just clumps of grass, not once, 345, times. Now, who would want to do that, see, and who would want to buy it? He didn’t really care. The idea is he wanted to paint that, paint the grass, and they’re wonderful. And so, what that means, his heart was in painting, and that should be the way with all of us see in art, in other words, forget about all the selling part. Yes, we want to sell. We want people to love our paintings. I mean, there’s no doubt about that. We just want somebody to give us praise of some sort, you know, tell us how good we are doing, but basically if a person is an artist, like the last thing we need to do really is worry about that, like one guy said, once you do that, you are defeating yourself. Once you start thinking, when are you going to make money, when are you going to get rich? Forget it. Or, in many cases, if you think you, what you are doing is such hot, such good stuff that’s going to last for 200 years, forget it. It’s maybe, maybe not, but almost most of the time it might not be, because there are 1000s of people doing the same thing, are artists, 1000s of people try it, and you are one of them. So, the best thing you can do, love what you are doing, I mean, love not what you’re doing, love the process. That’s where the thing, it’s not the outcome, it’s the process, and that’s what I enjoy, the process. That’s why I paint now. I don’t need to paint, really. I should sit over there, watch TV, but I paint because I love the process. Says I love I paint, I am an oil painter now, or I was for years, but what I do now is watercolor. So, why do I do that? Because it’s fascinating. You put two colors next to each other and they mix in the most, just like a miracle, colors come about, there’s no other medium does that, now most of the watercolors that I see, they’re all glazes and this and that and that, by the time they finish with that, it’s a great painting, they try to emulate other medium, see, that’s not the idea, as far as I’m concerned. If you stick with what the medium is, but all painting, I was both.. I started the watercolor, actually, then I did acrylic until I met this artist, Russian artist Sergey Bongard. How did I meet him? I saw his 19 eight four. I saw his magazine, I say magazine, I think Southwest maybe, or one of those magazines, and they had these paintings at that time. I said, my gosh, that’s the type of painting that I love, so what attracted me about them is they were they were representation paintings, but they were not super realistic paintings. You look at the apple, well, it doesn’t have beginning or end, but nevertheless it’s a delicious apple, what he painted, but it just, and that’s I said, okay, that’s what I love to do, and that really had had some kind of it inspired me to say, okay, that’s good, you could do that with anything or any other subject matter, so when I went, when I came to Oregon. Actually, the first thing I did is join art associations and art centers, and I’d go paint twice, once a week, one day a week, paint, and Fridays. On Fridays, I grew from the nude, and I did that for many, many, many years. Same place I had the key of the play of the art association. They depended on me. I’ve never missed any of it, and I did that. How did I do that? You see, the trouble is, at that time I was doing these figures, figurative work. That’s what this open studio was, figure, and we sort of chose these people, the models. What I wanted the models to be just like what they are. What do they wear? Not a costume, just what they wear. What do they wear normally? How do they have? How does their hair look like? Don’t plaster it with, you know, just make it look good. Forget it. How, if I see you in the street, how would I see you? If it’s torn jeans, go for it, if it’s oversized boots, shoes, go for it. See if you want purple hair. Why not? So this is the type of people I love to paint. Not sometimes I see these artists who are just beautiful, beautiful people, whether it’s men or women, most of them were women. I started thinking, where are these people? I can see them, I don’t see them in the grocery store, I don’t see them walking in the street. Who are they? I’m not interested in that type of painting, so I can’t wait, we were painting these people, and then there was no, you know, we didn’t have a, let’s say what’s called light on them, special, you know, effect, or this or that, we just stood about five, six guy people, men and women, and we paint, so what’s good for one, it’s not good for another, and that was that, wherever you are, and that’s it. You just do the best you can, and we have three hours, and I learned how to paint as quickly as possible. You see this painting behind me, just three hours, actually it’s two and a half hours, because the guy takes 15 minutes break twice, whatever, and that’s it. All my paintings, and actually, this is a small.. I mean, this is 24 by 30. Now, I used to paint 30 by 40, same three hours, but doing that, I was. Part of it was almost like watercolor, it was oil, except that, like watercolor splashes of paint, or loose, you know, just like watercolor, and then when it comes to areas like the face or something like that, then I get it, little bit more opaque, you know, and more and more and more until I get it done in three hours, and I never touch these paintings again. That’s it. Works, they work fine, they don’t work, it’s good enough. And I learned how to paint fast, whether it’s landscape or still life, same with the still life of all everything I painted from life, and I painted in my studio. Now, from life, the idea, as far as I’m concerned, everybody’s crazy about plein air painting, which is wonderful. Now, some of us want to be outside, regardless, like fishermen. They could fish, they could buy the fish cheaper than spending all this money and standing outside waiting to catch a fish. So, with clean air, some people do that, but the idea, I think, behind it is to learn how to see how to see nuances in color, which you really don’t see in a picture, in the photo, you have to look at it and see it, but I think personally, I think if you have experience knowing how things affect each other, one item, one thing, one tree next to another tree, different color, they sort of affect each other. Every one of them depends, the color depends on something else next to it. If you understand that, see, most of us, we don’t see that, we look at it like lectures. Okay, we see the whole thing, and that’s it. But if you, if we study it, and that’s the idea behind plein air, is to how to learn, how to do, how to see that. Now, some people, they go out, but they do what they know, it’s not what they are really experiencing, whether they are not really focusing on what what they are seeing, because every minute is different, and and they are not trying to learn from that. In my mind, I think if you learn plein air, and you learn what it means when you put one color next to another color, or let’s say one vase, red vase next to a green vase. What happens now if you understand that you could be sitting in your own studio and painting paintings that people would think you painted them out outside. It all depends what kind of experience did you have painting outdoors to do that, but nevertheless it’s wonderful to be outdoors painting at any time, assuming then you can put up with whether it’s cold or rainy or whatever, and I did that when it was freezing, when it was raining, so it was a great experience, and I still do it, and our home over here, we, I made it more like, like an oasis amidst, you know, just fields of gray of rye grass, and I had such beautiful areas to paint flowers and trees. All I planted all of the stuff just for the idea that I would paint. I don’t have to run all over the country, all over the world, actually looking for the perfect subject matter, and talking about that. It’s people say everything is paintable, yes, but how do you paint it? That’s where the point is, that we go back to Van Gogh, because the clumps of grass. How do you paint the clumps of grass? And that’s what he did. It didn’t do once, twice, five times, and that’s the idea. I think it’s looking for the perfect model or the perfect scenery. It has to have a building in there, it has to have little water, it has to have some trees. It’s a perfect thing. All you need to do, just get your oil paints and. To go ahead and paint them well. How do you paint something over and over and over? The place around our place, I mean, the landscape around our home, just around in our air, in our place. We live on a six acre property, but most of it is just close to our house, around our house, and I painted year after year, and under different conditions, climate conditions, and I was never getting bored, because I look at it differently every time. I look at part of it, not all of it. I look at sections, bits and pieces. One minute here, one minute there, I could see things I’ve never seen before. I pass by something, I say, my gosh, I really didn’t see that before. Now I see it, and I’ve been living here for, I know, I think 6870 years, or whatever, the same place, but I see things that I’ve never seen before, and I keep painting them. I paint them in different media, I paint them under different times of the day, so I mean, you could be a painter, and you don’t have to really run all over the country or all over the world, you know, to find looking for some, yeah, that’s great to really find new things, it’s wonderful, but basically all you need to do, look around you, and if you are really crazy about the process of painting, it doesn’t make a big difference what you are painting. Just get excited about doing it, and see how you could be enthusiastic about you. Get enthusiastic about doing it, if you do the same thing, like you know how to do it over and over and over and over, you are bound to get bored, and in my mind, boredom is a killer for the artist, and as long as you just keep, I keep thinking, really, what kept me going all these years, loving painting is the newness, something new, looking for something new all the time. So I am in an experimental mode all the time, I am in a learning mode all the time I’m always learning in one of these questions you had. See, in reality, you are learning all through your life as an artist. You can never say, ‘Hey, I know how to do this. Why I’m not, I shouldn’t be worried about it. I know how to do it, but in reality, that’s not true. If you are an artist, everything is new, everything is a problem to solve. It’s a solving problem, solving all the time. Every time you put a brush on the on the canvas, you change the whole thing for good or for worse, one or the other. All it takes is just one brushstroke, and one brushstroke leads to another before you know it. We repainted the painting. What was in the landscape might count up to be something else, you see, because you start from one end, you end up somewhere else. So I think it’s it’s learning process, if a person really thinks about it as a learning process, that you are a student all your life, and even now I’m a student, imagine I really cannot say I really know how to paint, I don’t, because everything is, is I’m looking for something new, something that I haven’t been doing I all my life, that I could repeat it. If I’m able to repeat it, it means it’s I’m done. That’s the point. That’s the time I need to quit. You see, because that’s the time you either get bored or you say, so what’s your use, you know, why do I, why I’m doing this, but if you are always in this learning situation and always looking at something, a new way of doing things, then there’s no end to it, you could do it forever and ever and ever, and you’re happy talking about happy. If I don’t paint, I’m unhappy. Now, if I don’t sculpt, I don’t care. If I don’t write, it doesn’t matter, bother me, because I’m not - I don’t call myself a writer, but paint. Painting, yes. If I don’t paint, unless something happens, if you know, but if I don’t paint, I’m unhappy, and that’s something I always try to avoid. I want to be satisfied in my life, and the only way I do that is painting. painting or doing something in painting or thinking or sketching, sketching, you know, you start thinking, what makes a good painting, what makes a memorable painting. It just amazes me how we look at these wonderful drawings, just fabulous, but then you see one line from, let’s say, Picasso, or somebody, he draws a dave in one line, one end to the other, it’s a line, personally I see it, I still remember it after many years. You see, why is that? What makes me remember that? See, it’s just a line from one end to the other. He just made a dave, so that’s what I think the art is. What, which painting that you look at, like I go to a museum, believe me. After I finish, I remember one painting or two paintings, that’s it. All the rest of it is gone now. Those two paintings must be what sort of luck do something for me, and I remember them year after year, after year, after year. I may not remember the museum, but I remember the paintings, so I think I’m talking too much.

Laura Arango Baier: 31:58

No, not at all. I think you’ve, you’ve made a lot of really excellent points, I think, particularly the importance of approaching any subject with curiosity, like you’re saying, like, how would I paint this, or how could I express this, kind of like how Van Gogh was painting grass and a bunch of different ways, trying to understand what he’s painting, and I think that’s, yeah, that’s a good point about the importance of not, like you said earlier, obsessing over the outcome, and just enjoying the actual process, allowing yourself to sit with all the fun little parts, and I’ve experienced when I make a painting, I get to one point and I’m bored, and I always wondered why, and I feel that what you’re mentioning, it makes a lot of sense. It’s like, oh, I’ve done this before, of course I’m bored.

Sarkis Antikajian: 32:56

Yeah, you know, I tell really people to see the thing is love artists, or you know, in the beginning, let’s say, trying to learn how to art. I tell them, just do love paintings, love many, many paintings, and do the same thing again, again. It doesn’t mean I’m not saying when I say that I’m not saying do it. Do the same thing over the same way. You could change the medium, you could change the color, you could put it under this, you could put it outside, you could put it inside. Just change the thing, but do the same one, and you do it over and over and over. You don’t have to go all the time scratching your head, figure out what I, what you’re going to paint. You see, it doesn’t matter what it is, it could be just a cup or anything, you know. It doesn’t make much difference, but you see that the thing is, many, many, unfortunately, many people who paint are worrying about how to do the perfect painting. Well, there is no such thing, and if you do that, like the guy says, you are defeating yourself. It’s not, it’s not such a, such a idea to think that you are going to have a make a masterpiece again. Forget about that. You see, you paint and see exactly what you are doing, and, and where you are going, if you keep trying to change things the way you want it. Again, there’s another thing, painting, you see, for me to be able to do something like. Something exactly doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t know if you are a technician. Yeah, love people love technicians. They love to paintings that they look like just humans. I mean, just beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Well, for me, I don’t know. I as respect these people, I admire them for their technical ability, but if it doesn’t do, if I forget about it after I leave the room, then it doesn’t do any good. It doesn’t do me any good now? Sometimes even a kid is just a child does something. It appeals to me more than a painting in the museum. Why something about it? There’s that freedom. They do it because they are doing it. They’re not worried about somebody else looking at it. They don’t care. They are just doing it because they want their love to do it, and they do it their own way. So, in other words, a painting that really a person just keeps at it, keeps at it until it comes completely beautifully polished. Well, it doesn’t appeal to me now. Maybe that’s my weakness, maybe, but it doesn’t appeal to me. I love a painting that it doesn’t make much difference. I mean, technically speaking, maybe it’s not such a good painting, maybe it has all kinds of defects. It doesn’t matter to me. How do I see the whole thing? What does it look like? Does it give the impression of the person or the thing? Does it give the essence of the thing rather than surface polished wonderful thing, that well, okay, maybe everybody likes that because they, you know, they admire the technical ability, but well, again, it just, you know, maybe that’s maybe I, maybe I do that as a watch card, because see, I painted all my life quickly, maybe I just want to justify that, maybe I’m making, making a point out of that. Well, in reality, that’s what I like to do, you see, it’s not matter of whether because it, I cannot, it would bore me if I did it, if I worked on something day in day out, I just cannot do it, but again, maybe that has to do with personality, maybe, or maybe because I wanted to paint a lot and I want to learn a lot, and that’s the only way you could learn by painting a lot, just simply sitting over there with a small brush and dabbing at the painting forever and ever and ever. I’m not so sure how you could learn from that. The idea is there’s another thing, love people, love practical students, they go buy these expensive linen, expensive stuff. Well, I tell you, if I was going to paint on something that’s going to cost me $100 I wouldn’t want to do that, because I want to paint on something that I could paint it, if I don’t like it, throw it away. See, period, that’s it. Now, if I end up doing a masterpiece, which is very unlikely, but suppose I did. Suppose by miracle, see, I did. If somebody really loves to loves it, and they think it’s valuable painting a bit. You did protect it. Latrec, I’m sure you know who Le Creek is. Well, he painted on cardboard. You think he cared? He worried about the longevity of his paintings. No, I love his work, and he just did it on cardboard. He didn’t do it on fancy material, he just did it. Most of it is just pencil, chalk, whatever it is, no, whatever he could find. So, in our , why waste, why put some kind of constraint over what you are doing? Why not just do something that it’s not precious? Now it might get to be precious for you, because maybe you could stumble on something. Hey, all my life I wanted to do this and. The a it was one brush, I managed to do it. Maybe you cannot repeat it, but that’s okay. Try it again. You see, chances are you won’t be able to. You see, there’s always something by accident, like one guy says everybody, what this guy says. Everybody does a masterpiece, you see, once in a lifetime or something like that, you know. But the idea is, how to be able to do paintings that you, that make you feel good. Maybe it doesn’t make somebody else happy, or maybe somebody else won’t appreciate it, but that doesn’t matter. It’s once you do it, you feel good about it, and you go to the next thing you want to do, or get yourself excited about doing, and, like I said, you know, boredom, if you, if you are good at it, technically speaking, and you can repeat it over and over, like I always say, you know, like making a pair of shoes. If you can make one pair of shoes, you can make 1000, but not so with painting. You cannot, even if you repeat yourself, you cannot. You try to do the same thing again, you cannot do that. See, but if you have a process of doing the same thing without trying to learn, you might end up getting bored after a while, and some people manage to do that. That’s okay. Another thing, you know, like this branding thing, I’m against, you know, everybody says, well, you need to be branded, don’t jump from one thing to another, stay with one thing, if you are portrait, just stay with that, if you are all painter, just stay with that. I am against that personally, I’m against that, the reason I say that, because one thing teaches you do something else, you just can’t learn from one to the other. Now, when I was painting watercolor, and then painting acrylics, when I took this Sergey Bongards workshop in Rexford, Idaho, for two weeks, I thought I was just wonderful, great thing that would happen to me. Well, he had about 60 students in this workshop, and I was just a beginner, and I thought, because his brochure, whatever it is, said, “Oh, you could, you could paint in any other, any medium, supposedly. Okay, so I took my watercolor, because that’s what I was painting, and he, and on my, on our lunch hour, I’ll sit over there, and, and they had, you know, his helpers had still life setups all around a barn like buildings for students to paint, so I’ll sit over there on my lunch hours, eat my sandwich, and paint watercolors, a watercolor blotch from one of these still lives setups. One day I looked around, you know. This was maybe second, third day, fourth day. I felt like somebody was standing behind me. There was nobody. Everybody went somewhere else, you see. They offered them to eat their lunch or do whatever. Lo and behold, it was, it was Sergey Bongard standing there. So he looked at it, he says, “Good. He says,”Then he looked at me. He says,”You want to become an artist? I said, “Yeah, sure. He says, “Well, tomorrow go get some oil paints, buy this kind of the size, 20 by 2416 by 20, whatever. Actually, 20 by 2424 by 30. Buy these brushes, buy this paint, and paint oil paintings for the rest of the workshop. And he says, if he’s told me, if you learn how to paint oil well, you could paint any other medium if you, if you want any other medium, but learn how to paint in oils. So that’s when I started painting in oils, and I did that for the rest of it, and I painted even his workshop, painted figures, people with all, with, although I haven’t really used oil, see, I was doing watercolors, so I mean, it was, so I mean, really, it’s just a marvel of what leads to. One thing leads to something else, and inspiration comes probably from nowhere. If I didn’t see this guy’s painting, you know, images of his paintings, this magazine, I wouldn’t have known who he is. I just happened by luck to see that now, what he did is you ask about inspiration. He inspired me, but not the way one would think. It’s not the way he didn’t teach me how to paint. His demonstrations where he painted a still life from life in he had some kind of setup, but the figures, if he painted the figure from a pencil sketch, figure pencil sketch of another artist, Russian artist, but he turned that pencil sketch into this beautiful figure, colorful, lovely, some Russian peasant of some sort. Then, for the landscape, he had his pencil drawing of some kind of a rainy something, some kind of something with pencil. It’s just a drawing. He stuck it over there on the easel, and he painted this wonderful moody landscape. So, in other words, we didn’t really learn from that. When I was giving workshops, I gave off workshops, and I’ll do a painting from beginning to end. Not only that, I left these participants to ask me anytime, stop me anytime, and I kept talking what I’m doing now with Sergey Bongard, you can’t even breathe, let alone talk, you see, you can’t ask any question, nothing until he takes a break, then he turns around, he says, okay, well, by that time you better ask an important question, not this crazy question. Otherwise, you, you get reprimanded on that. For some, you know, I mean, you better know what it is that you are going to ask, but he won’t allow anybody to, you know, ask. But nevertheless, what did he teach me? Really, he taught me what it takes to become an artist, that’s what he said, that’s what he nowadays. You just don’t become an artist without working at it, without really having that way of life that you really chose. It’s not something that you know, you say, “Okay, I’ll take it or leave it. I’ll do this and find out if somebody would like it. Somebody might not like it. It’s not that way. It’s a.. it’s a battle throughout, and you do it because you know you want to do it. You have to do it,

Laura Arango Baier: 48:22

I. that’s beautiful. If you’ve been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly webinar, The Faso Show, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories, and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you’re a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey. This is your chance to connect, learn, and spark new ideas. And whether you’re stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don’t miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next FASO show webinar is coming up on the 18th of June with our special guest, Timothy Tyler. You can find the signup link in the show notes, and that’s I love that you really emphasize how it’s so important to allow yourself to be as free as a child in that sense, right? To, oh, I just want to paint this flower, why? Because, yes, you know, there really doesn’t have to be a deeper reason, and I think when we become adults, we’re so focused on having to do things in a certain way, and oh, well, I should only do this one subject matter forever, because I know I’m good at it, even though I kind of want to paint ducks, for example, like I feel like a lot of artists put themselves in this little cage of, okay, I have to fit in here, and then they wonder why maybe they’re not happy, or they, they have like desires to paint something else, but they feel like, oh, I can’t, because my gallery maybe doesn’t like that. That’s, you know, that’s

Sarkis Antikajian: 50:01

right, that’s right. They are afraid, they’re afraid the gallery won’t like it. They’re afraid they think they are going downhill. You see, if all of a sudden they are doing something little different, they think, oh boy, this person is just, you know, he’s not making it. You see, in reality, that person may be going in, has a different trajectory, a different way, he’s trying, or he or she trying to do something different, maybe, but somebody else might think they are going downhill, that’s not true, and really, this branding thing, I think, puts a, you know, it’s you just can’t get out of it after a while, you’re stuck with it, you just can’t get out of it, because you feel like if you got out of it, failure, so you end up doing the same thing over and over and over, and maybe you can make a living that way, maybe because everybody expects the same thing, expects you know, lucky, if you are, if you play it the same way all the time. Well, maybe people expect that maybe they don’t know that all your paintings are like that. If you paint something in a gray, just all gray, gray, gray, okay? Maybe you like it. Lot of people like that. See, talking about that, though. You see, the thing is talking about color. If it wasn’t for color, I’d never be a painter. I love color. Now, personally, I think of myself about an old-fashioned person, but when it comes to color, I’m not. And, but the thing is, lot of people don’t like color, they want to have something which fits their homes, if they want to buy it. In my mind, it should be a painting, more like an accent, like a vase in the corner, completely different. Everything else is gray, and this vase is an accent, so is a painting. The painting should be, should be an accent, some something over there. You look at it, my gosh, it’s just wonderful. But if you make that gray, also like the couch, or whatever it is, then it just defeats the purpose. So, I mean, it’s just, again, I don’t really know, I don’t know what I’m talking about, it maybe is, maybe that’s not, I shouldn’t be talking like that, but I keep thinking, really, the idea is, do just go with what you are, what you want to do and forget about what other people want you to do and and that is very difficult because you see of the insecurities we have and let’s face it we want people to love us we want people to love whatever it is we’re doing, you see, the paintings we’re doing, because after all, you know, I mean, you start thinking, my gosh, you know, like sometimes people ask me, what do you do, I’m a painter, they think I’m a house painter, sudden I turned around and say, well, no, it’s art painting, you see. Oh, okay. You know, oh, it loves to sit over there. They tell me, sit out and look out the window, you know, there, and just play over there with some pencil or whatever it is. Okay, I just don’t say anything. If that’s the case, that’s alright. Do it if you want, do it if you want to have fun. Go ahead and do it. They really don’t know what a painter goes through, and it’s not a bad thing, but it’s the reason I’m saying it. Go, he goes through, or she goes through, because it’s a battle in our, it’s a learning process, you don’t, you know, there’s no way you could say, “Hey, I know how to do this, and I could repeat it as many times as I want. It’s an impossibility. Every brush stroke could really ruin the painting, could change everything. When I’m painting in like these figures, I’m all over the place. I never in one place, even in a minute, see, I’m just doing all over because I know darn well something would lead to something else. Sometimes people would tell me, why did you put this. Thing over there, you see, what did what made you do that? I really don’t know. Something just told me do it, and that’s it. That’s why I did it. You see, sometimes it ruins the whole thing, sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes makes it that’s what you want ends up the type of painting you want,

Laura Arango Baier: 55:26

yeah, but then how can someone overcome that pressure of oh, I should be painting this, how can someone just allow themselves to be free from the pressure,

Sarkis Antikajian: 55:42

you know, when I started painting for three four years, I never showed it to anybody, not even to my wife or kids, nobody. I didn’t show it to anybody, and in reality, the idea is to overcome that, I is not to, in a way, not not to look for. There are a lot of people, for example. It just amazes me. I have even friends. If you look at their painting before you know it, they give you a whole speech about the painting. Well, as far as I’m concerned, it is what it is. That’s it. This is that’s what you see. You like it good, you don’t like it good. Now, the idea is, I think, is to paint with the idea that you are not really doing a perfect painting, never, because you have to be in a sketching in an experimental mood mode all the time. If you are not in an experimental mode, you are doing what you know all the time, and if you are doing what you know, you are not going anywhere, and it doesn’t matter. Maybe that’s time, maybe people pat you on the back, you see, because once you switch anything, chances are people would look at it like yesterday, before, or a few days ago, or yesterday, actually, or some. We had, we were in a gallery, they had my paintings, one of my paintings, and on the bottom there was some, which I had some red, something red, reddish, so this person tells me, “Oh, of course, they haven’t seen that many of my paintings. That’s trouble again, if you don’t see many of somebody’s paintings, and if you see something, you think, well, this person is doing something different when reality is not so. So I can’t wait. When he saw this red star, so he says, “You know, well, that’s why did you do that? You see, well, this was in a grassy area. It’s just very grassy area, and it’s a low, low, what you call it, low land. There’s water and there’s brambles, you know, just blackberries. Well, these were blackberries at the time. At certain time, the leaves were reddish, and that’s what I saw, and that’s what I was trying to emphasize, the impression of the place, and because, see, normally they see my maybe my figure paintings and they are wonderful, how come you painted this like that? Well, because that’s what it is. See, I can’t do something else if that’s what it, that’s what I’m painting, and it just amazed me. I said, okay, you know that that’s all right, and the person is mind you, as a painter, also, you know, who said that. Well, okay, you know, but normally you don’t really take a painting start wondering, why does a person, what did the person do that, what did he put, why did he or she put this color in there, for what reason, chances are intuitively the artist did that because the feeling is to do that is to put that in there, and chances are it works, but the thing is about, about how to, how to avoid getting in this insecurity situation, I think if you, if you are, let’s say, worried about something about the painting, just leave it alone, you don’t need to even to show it to anybody or. Are if you want to show it to PC, and normally let’s say my wife, I don’t show her a painting unless I’m unhappy with it, she might look at it and she says, well, I think something bothered me about here, she doesn’t know what it is, but something’s bothering me. Okay, that’s a good thing to hear. You see, and then I start looking at it. Sure enough, I might, because she’s looking at it from different point of view, she’s not looking at it from my side of it, and chances are with brush stroke I could fix whatever it is that was bothering her, maybe, or maybe I just forget about it, but again, I think the idea is if you don’t want people to be critical, all this critique stuff, lot of people get in the critique stuff, is you know where they join group of people and they critique each other’s. I don’t really go for that, because I don’t want to critique anybody’s painting, and I don’t want anybody else to critique my painting, because really I’m doing it. I’m the one who’s doing it, good or bad, because somebody is.. I mean, it’s a subjective thing. What’s good for me might not be good for you or for somebody else. And you see, we could never see it’s not a type of business that chances are many would like it. It’s not when I say something. Well, I mean it’s not such a job where it’s a profitable job where you could do a lot of people and people would love to have it. It’s not people have to love it, people come over here to the gallery, my gallery, out of the blue, you see. I don’t know, David, they find me, maybe from my website, FASO website, maybe, or maybe from the newsletter I used to send for 15 years. I used to send newsletter, and and they come, and if they buy a painting for $3,000 Let’s say I started thinking now, why would a person do that? You see, mind you, I almost tried to talk them out of it. Sometimes I do believe it, and I tell them, I tell my God, you need a, you need a painting like you need a hole in your head. You see, just forget about it, see, I mean, they think I’m crazy, see, but, but in a way, the reason I price it like that, because galleries price it like that, so I can’t do anything else. As far as I’m concerned, that’s another thing I tell friends, never give anybody a painting unless they tell you we cannot live without it, if they say I cannot live without it, I’d love to have this, then give it to them, but don’t gift anybody a painting, give, give them a vase that way they could break it, they don’t like, and say the dog broke it, you see, and get away, but if they, if you give them a painting, they are stuck with it, and if they don’t like it, who knows what’s going to happen to it eventually, probably goodwill or sometime place, you know, and get rid of it. Don’t do that, I tell them, just, just don’t give anybody a gift, a painting, because, see, you don’t really know, they might tell you they okay, yeah, thank you, but they might hate it, and they are stuck with it, with the painting, it’s not something they could get rid of, they hide it, they cannot hide it, they have to put it on the wall, they have to put it someplace, because you are their friend. I mean, you are really causing love, anguish the other side for them. So, but love people do that, I guess. They give you know, you know, they think they’re doing somebody a favor. You see, they give paintings, you know, as a gift, you yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:04:23

that’s very wise. It’s definitely a burden on the other person if they receive something that they don’t really like, because then it’s like, oh, oh no, yeah, it’s a very, it’s very good advice. And as for, you know, removing the pressure, I think. Yeah, you’re totally not showing it to anybody is great, because I think you’re right. A lot of the, especially today with the internet and everything, I think a lot of artists are, and me included, because, of course, I’m part of this age where we have this feeling of, oh, if I make something, I have to show it to someone. Or I feel this pressure of I need, like you said, maybe it’s like the validation that, oh, you did a great job, pat on the back, or oh, this isn’t so good, and then I feel bad, right? So I think, yeah, removing that pressure of being observed, I think

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:05:18

that’s unfortunately this Facebook and places like that, if you put your painting, chances are somebody might remark, which is not a good remark. Let’s say, and if you have thick skin, or whatever, you just don’t have that, then you’re unhappy hearing something like that, so I don’t know that such a good thing, you know, to do that. I like the newsletter I used to send for 15 years. I quit doing that just about a year ago, I think, or maybe months ago. I would put paintings in it that I have done that month. Let’s say I sent the newsletter on the first of each month, but I’ll put in it images of the paintings that I did the month before, and I will talk about paintings, I’ll talk about art. It wasn’t a selling point. I wasn’t trying to sell anybody anything, but nevertheless, I did sell people from that, you see. But in reality, the purpose of its purpose wasn’t a selling point. It was to show them what it is and show them why I did that, and, and why I’m doing this, and write about art in general, maybe just put my ideas about this or that, but again, in, you know, just stay in the same area, you see, not just go completely different subject, completely crazy, and I had really good response. For I had sent it for about, I know, 300 over 300 people, and I had really good response. But then, at the time, at this time, about, I don’t know, six, seven months, eight months ago, I said, “That’s it, you see enough of that, because you know you have to worry about it, you have to think about it, you have to. So I quit doing that. It was great, I mean, for 15 years, every month, every month I sent one of those newsletters. I know FASO sends recommends maybe just few, just for sale, sell, selling, you see, number two or three paintings, these are for sale, and prices, and whatever it is, but that’s not, wasn’t the purpose of mine, it was more like, I don’t know, that the blog, I don’t even know what a blog is, it was something like that, but it had my painting images of my paintings in it, and people, I guess, appreciated, and some of them were surprised that I would quit. They were unhappy that I quit, but I had to, you know,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:20

so

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:08:20

I don’t know, really. Dealing, the idea is it’s a lonely type of a profession. If you call it profession, you do it because you want to do it, you see, not because, not for the purpose of having praise from anybody, because if that was, that’s the case, you have, you’ll be neurotic by the end, you finish, by the end of your life, you’ve had it, you see, it just doesn’t work out like that, you do it because you just want to do it, and you can’t do without doing it, and that’s what makes you happy, and that’s the case, because you know if you are lucky, you’ll make money out of it, some money, which is great, you get, you know, and I, I get out of the blue, people buy my paintings, they come over here to the studio, which is this, which is a mistake to do that, but nevertheless they do. You know why? Because they have too many choices, and that’s about the worst thing you could do, is have too many choices. I want this, no, I want that, no, I want this, I want that. They turned around, you know, and finally they decide on something you see, but it’s in a way, it’s they get so confused in the museums, that’s why they put one painting and they don’t put another painting right next to it, they put it four or five feet away from it, you see, so that you won’t get, you know. Sidetracked, you know, just looking at both of them, same time, you just look at one at a time, but it’s good. I, I, the studio over here, I have all these paintings, I have my wife made books just for us, I mean, for sure, not to sell, and these books have all these paintings numbered, everything else. So, in other words, if you look, people come and look through these books. If they want to see one, we pull it out for them. There are some paintings on the wall, which they could see, but those are maybe figurative words talking about figures, hardly anybody buys figure paintings. I have many of them. The only people who bought my paintings are other artists, believe it or not, not not the public. Why would a person put a figure, you know, like some somebody like that. People would ask him,”Who’s this relative? Who’s that? Why are you having this painting? You see, when it comes to figure, unless it’s a commission, and I don’t take any commissions, but but people don’t want to have figures on their walls, somebody they don’t know doesn’t make much difference, even if they love the painting, they don’t do that, because everybody’s going to ask them, Who is this person, and, and that’s about the worst thing to explain to them. Well, that’s it’s a painting, you know. So, I mean, but I, I love to do portraits, if you call that portrait. I love to do that. It’s the most, you know, why? Because you could never repeat yourself. These, like this guy over here, I painted him maybe 20 times. Every time is different, every time it’s different, and I, I somehow or not, with all the stuff, I managed to have fairly good likeness, not perfect likeness, because I’m not a portrait painter, I don’t claim to be, and I would never want to. You know, you talk about Sargent Sargent’s paintings, believe it or not, all these commissions. If I’m right, I read about him that he hated doing that, but that’s what gave him money. You know what he enjoyed doing painting his friends sketch like painting both colors, and that’s what he enjoyed. All these fabulous ladies, you know, huge. You see them in, in, in museums. He hated doing that, you know. If you look at it, I think that’s what I read someplace, and that’s what what he didn’t like, that he didn’t enjoy that, he enjoyed the sketches he did of his friends, old paintings, and I, and those I love. Otherwise, I mean, these, yeah, okay, that’s great, they’re wonderful, but for me, they don’t mean anything, like one person, I guess, told this bong guard, the guy I’m talking about, this Russian guy. Oh, she told him, “You made my ring small over here. He told her,”Well, why didn’t you tell me that? I would really make it as big or as, as whatever it is, as you want, you know. Just tell me what you want, and we’ll do it. I mean, people, people love their, you know, to have their painting, their figure, their face painted, but, but these, like I said, these people I really love to paint are the people who you see in the streets the way they are, and I tell them, just come the way you are every day, don’t come all dressed up with fixed hair and all this stuff, don’t do that, you just come the way you usually, because that’s what I love to do with it. Just pick these people, and that’s the most enjoyable thing to do, is paint these people just the way they are, and because if it was something somebody very beautiful, and this and that, I don’t think I could improve on that. I could, I don’t know how I could paint, paint it like that, because most of them are so polished, you know. Technically speaking, they’re wonderful. Now, mind you, I appreciate what they do. I, you know, they’re just wonderful. Technically speaking, they’re just wonderful. These artists, I mean, they do fabulous stuff. It, but this painting, as far as I’m concerned, bores me. It’s boring. Okay, I see it. Okay, just a few minutes later, I forget about it. Yeah, the idea is, how to get these paintings that stay with you. You could always remember them, and that’s the trick, I think. If a person manages to do that, which some of sometime you can, sometimes you can’t, most of the time you can’t.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:15:36

Yeah, and I guess the only way to maybe achieve that is by painting a lot.

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:15:40

That’s just about it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:15:43

Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask you if you have any final advice for someone who wants to pursue becoming an artist as a profession.

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:15:57

That is a tricky situation. The reason I say that I think they should have some confident income other than painting, unless they inherit something some people do, we see, or they have their parents support them, or somebody supports them, because if you don’t have another income, you are, you have, you are in a bind, you worry about what you’re doing, you worry about the waste, you worry every time you buy a tube of paint, it costs you $30 ends up in the trash, and you know whatever it is you’re doing for nothing, and that should not be your worry. You should have some kind of an income, so that you’ll be able to experiment. If you do not experiment, you are not in the student mode as a student all your life. I personally don’t think you should be an artist, you see. If you think it’s something, well, okay, in 10 years I’ll be an artist. Believe it or not, I didn’t even call myself an artist for many, many years. Never did I call myself painter because I didn’t really know what artist means, really. What is it? It sounds like a like something I don’t even understand. Artist, what is that? And calling myself an artist, it wasn’t something I was able to do or to say, so I mean the idea is have something, some kind of income, and paint a lot, and don’t paint on if you can’t afford it, paint on something in a paint on canvas, cheaper canvas. There’s all kinds of canvas. Don’t worry about it, because if you make it by chance, miracle, a masterpiece, somebody is bound to maybe mount it on a board. Then you have a wonderful. it doesn’t need to be linen, it would last as long as the board lasts, but if your paintings are not good, they’re gonna go in the trash eventually, sooner or later. I mean, lot of people, believe it or not, buy paintings, then their kids don’t like the painting, they might end up in, you know, somewhere else. Who knows where? Because they don’t like the painting, they change their mind. They like something else, maybe pop art, or some.. I don’t know what you see. So, but they inherited these paintings, and they don’t know how to get rid of them, you know, maybe they give him goodwill, they sell them, who knows what they do with them, so that’s that’s the point, is that if you want to be an artist, the idea is paint a lot and open with open mind, and don’t worry what medium are doing. Pick and choose what you like, but which medium fits you? Now, certain, maybe certain kind, maybe oil painting, maybe doesn’t, doesn’t work for you, for the artist. Okay, just go for it, but try it, try something different. If you don’t get bored, boredom, like I say, is your enemy, and just keep at it, and sooner or later you do it now. Someday, maybe, just like me, I ended up as a pharmacist. I don’t say I was, I did very well as a pharmacist, money, because I have never been out of a job, never, but people thought my heart was in pharmacy, and it wasn’t. See, because I was dependent, I did a good job with it, but in my heart I was, I want to be a painter, I want to be an art, I want to be a painter, so I stuck with it for so many years until I decided just that’s it, I’m done with it. I went to the person I worked for. I said, that’s it. This is my last day, buddy. He said, see that I’m done. I’m an artist now. I’m a painter, and that was the end of it. I was never happier, because I could do it without any worries. Where am I going? How am I going? Am I selling what I’m doing over here, wasting my money with my family? You know, I mean, really, look at your family, they start looking at you. What the heck are you doing? You see now, thankfully, my family support the idea of me being a painter, but some might not. You see, some say, well, gosh, here we are. We can’t find money for this, for that, for that, and you’re just wasting all this money. So then chances are you cannot experiment. You’re afraid to waste, you’re afraid to throw anything in the trash can. Somebody will see it, your relative would see, your wife would see it, your husband would see it. You don’t want that. You say, “What the heck are you doing if you don’t know what to do? Why are you doing it? Why is it in the trash can? They don’t know that it’s something you have to go through. It’s your life you have to go through that, you cannot make something perfect. It will never happen. It can never happen. It might be, get to be to your liking. Yes, to your liking. For a while, chances are you just move on into something else, and something else would be to your liking. So, I mean, that’s, that’s, I mean, to give advice to an artist, I think. I don’t know, unless they have some sort of money, you know? I mean, sort of somebody gave them some money or something, but otherwise, I think, find some way, somehow, to have another income just to support your business, your whatever it is you’re doing. It’s craziness. I keep calling it, it’s crazy. You know, sometimes I wonder whether we are really normal people, this, you know, these artists, I mean, you start thinking now, who is in the right mind will stand in front of a canvas day in, day out, or paper, or something like that. Why, for what reason? Not people are not standing in line to buy it. You don’t know that we will ever sell it. You don’t. I have so many paintings over here in my studio. I mean, love figurative work. Now, how could I sell those? And I don’t care. I really don’t. I don’t care what happens to them. It doesn’t matter to me, they are done, you know. People admire them, but they wouldn’t buy them, because I said, “Who would want to have a figure, somebody’s portrait on a wall? You don’t know who he is, and chances are the paintings I do are not polished so well that somebody would admire my, you know, dexterity, or somebody we call it, you know, I mean, hey, it’s a painting, it has blemishes, it has this, it has that, and I like that, I personally like that, and I stopped there. I could next day mess around with it, and, and get it looking nicer and more finished, but, but I don’t. It is what it is. That’s it, because if I do change it, it changes the whole thing. Personally, I think, how to get the person’s personality, you know? You know, you have to just tell somehow another, you have to manage to get the person’s actually in prayer. Question, you know, I think in one of your questions, how would, about you know, about painting that you would like? I think, what would you like to see in your painting, or something like that? I forgot what was I would love, if I were at all possible, to have an impression of something rather than a rendering of something, if I’m able to, that’s why I personally admire some of these caricature guys, people who do caricature, and I tried it over the years, off and on, I was never able to do it. They are talented people. They are. That’s what they can do. Something I could never do. And believe it, if I could take that, if I’m able to borrow some of that and put it in my painting, I’ll be the happiest person. But I can’t, you see. Yes, I do love exaggeration. Some people don’t like that. I exaggerate in color and form to a certain extent, because I love to do that. I love to push it a little bit, simply because something appeals to me on the person, like I said, it’s not, it’s not a person who wants me to really love them. They just sit there because they need the money, they are most likely their students or something or another. They love it, so most of them enjoy, they look at it, they love it. Believe now, some of them bought my painting, you know, some of these people, they’re all and on time to also, you know, just pay a little bit at a time. I guess they just like that, because it is what they are. That’s what they are, you see. It’s not something which made them completely different, lovely, something lovely, and that it’s not. It’s a personality, that’s what they are. They just block what I did. If you have tattoos, put the tattoos in it. If there’s something, turn up trousers or whatever it is, or shirt that’s what it is, or something doesn’t match something else. Okay, that’s good, that’s what they are, and they love it, you know. I enjoy what they do, you know, the freedom some of these young people nowadays, freedom, they, they have. I appreciate that, because I could never do that, you know, because they just, they come sometimes. I will sit in a restaurant, you know, and we see these students come by, teenagers, my class, no two people are alike, none of them, every one of us different, hairstyle this and that, and bad depends, and I know what set-letting, or at least they are free to do whatever it is they want to do, all the power to them, so

Laura Arango Baier: 1:28:05

beautiful. Yes, yeah. Oh, man. Oh, being an artist is a tough, tough thing, huh?

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:28:16

But it’s a wonderful thing. I mean, I wouldn’t want to be anything else truthfully. If you asked me, what would you, if you had come back in mother life, I would want to be a parent, or I wouldn’t want to be anything else. There’s nothing I would want, would have wanted to be, or crave to be, or let’s say aspire to be. It’s just that’s what it is, that’s what I want to be. I don’t know, some people, maybe it’s a crazy idea, maybe it’s a crazy way of thinking about it, but I honestly think I wouldn’t have chosen anything else if I come in a different life. Let’s say a different person, I would would want to be the same to the same, maybe in a different way, but still be a painter, because there’s nothing like it, and the change you change with it, and you have to change, actually you have to move on all the time, change, because if you don’t, again you’ll be bored,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:29:38

very well said, beautiful. And then I wanted to ask you, if someone wants to see your paintings, where can they see them?

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:29:49

It’s for one thing, I have the only gallery gallery I have now is the rental sales gallery of the poor. Lund Art Museum, that’s where I have my paintings, but then I have my studio, I mean my gallery over here, and people ask me, we would love to come at an all right, all you need to do is call me, we can a day and they do come, they come and they buy something, sometimes even they are painters, they say would love to come, but I’m sure come by and they come and look, they got upstairs is where I paint, if I’m painting indoors, see, I have my easels and stuff, and paint, and all that stuff. So, they want to see what kind of brushes I use, what kind of paint I use, and it’s never the same. Sometimes I have some paint, I don’t even know why I got them, you know. They are sitting there, brand new, doesn’t use them, but so my, and then from my website, people see my website, and then they want to see if any of these paintings are available, maybe, or they want to come, that would lead them to my gallery, to my studio. Another thing, my book, they see my book, the coffee table book, and and they see the, they say, yeah, I would like to have that some epics painting, or that, if it’s available, they get it, and the other thing, otherwise the newsletter that I sent, that was good, and what else I might have my paintings here and there, but mostly this is it, you know, really, I didn’t have them in other galleries, I had I had retro, I believe, or not, as retrospectives, and those were great, because a lot of people, you know, so on all the stuff that I did, because I do drawing, I do all kinds of things, believe it or not, within last few years, I even did abstracts and I believe really, like one guy said, under every painting there’s an abstraction, which is true. I learned that after a while, and abstract, I really never was interested in it when I was painting years back, I was more opinionated in a way, but within the last few years, I started thinking, you know, really, there’s something to it. It’s the same requirement, you need a reasonable color harmony, you need a reasonable design, you know. Shapes certain shapes go together, so it’s not that easy. It’s much easier to sit over there and paint from something you see rather than from a blank piece of paper or canvas and show me what you can do and come out with some kind of an abstraction, abstract painting that appeals to you, and again, even that, believe it or not, it’s your personality shows through, even in that, even if you’re a representational painter, your personality would show in abstract if you did it, but you don’t do one, you do many, see, a lot of people jump from one thing to another to another, they do one. If you want to emulate somebody, do many, do 100. Then you decide what part of it you want to use, because mind you, we all learn from somebody else, whether we like it or not. Looking at somebody else’s painting, you might gain something without knowing it, you know. Subconsciously, you’ll gain something from it. You see, that would help you in your painting. We all learn from somebody else. There’s nobody you know, just completely. You’re not in a, in a cocoon, whatever it is, you know. You’re not just completely isolated from everything else. You are impressed by something, either somebody, somebody’s painting some something, something you know changes you every time you look at something, you’ll change and. You know, like abstract paintings, I mean, I do. Better than that, I started even selling them these abstracts. I mean, I can believe it, you know? I mean, I say, okay, you know, but it’s not something, mind you, I’m not an abstract painter. Now, my paintings are called them representational painting, but not necessarily realistic. That’s the way I call my paintings representational, but not necessarily realistic. But with abstraction, it’s different, and I don’t think it’s easy to do. People think,”Oh my god, the monkey would do it. Well, that’s not true. Try it. A lot of people, they say they see what I did. They say, ‘Oh, you know what? We tried it. Oh my god, I give up. You say I’m not going to do it again. Yeah, sure, because not easy. You have a blank piece of, they have canvas blank, and you have to make something, and you have to have some design, something that you, you like. How do you do that? Brushstroke at a time, at a time, change, change, change, change, until you got it. See, you don’t even know how you end up with this. You end up with this because something told you that’s it. This is what you got quit, because if you do some more, you’re changing it again. You’re starting back from beginning. So, I mean, it’s not, it’s not easy, and it’s wonderful to try. I personally recommend it for anybody to give it a try. See, just, just for the heck of it, you know, do something small or something. I do these big, actually 36 by 36 you know, abstraction. I have a bunch of them, and this is what I’m saying. If you want to try something else, do many, don’t do one, do many, because you do one, it’s not going to do any good. Even if you succeed, it’s not going to do any good if you do 2345, then you can decide, can I use some of this in my own painting, or forget about it, that’s it. Dave, it chances are you might gain something from it, you know, and that you could use, even if you’re represents your patron, you could, you get again something from it. So, I mean, it doesn’t hurt to try something else. It’s not going to tear up your, you see, that’s again branding, you know. Well, okay, don’t show it to anybody. If you don’t show it to anybody, that’s fine. If you are in galleries and you’re afraid, because who’s to say, you know, gallery, then manage, or whatever, you don’t know what they like, you know, they really don’t, you really don’t know, you’re lucky if the manager, owner, or manager loves your paintings. I did have some like that, and they sold a lot of my work, simply because they loved them. They bought paintings from me, so they loved what I did. Now, how do you find somebody like that? You know, but if you are lucky, you can get somebody like that. Otherwise, most of these managers, they want to, they want to see what people like, and if they like it, you are good. If they don’t like it, you’re out. See, they tell you,”Well, your type of art is not working here, you know.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:38:41

Yeah, yeah, those are all very, very good points, and once again, I love that you emphasize the importance of always learning and always being curious and always experimenting, because it goes to show that no matter how old you are and how long your career has been, you’re always always learning,

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:39:03

you have to be young, you have to stay young, and I stay young. I don’t know, I, you know, you really have to be in a young, young, you have to have young feelings, see that you could really, and I still believe it or not, I still love, like to learn, I like to learn, if I can, you know, but sometimes you can, sometimes you can, sometimes you can’t even talk.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:39:34

Oh man, yeah. Well, thank you so much, Sarkis, for all your incredible advice and wisdom, I think I really needed to hear this as well, because I need to let myself be free and stop showing stuff to people if I don’t want to. Well, thank you so much again for being a guest on the show.

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:39:57

Thank you very much for for. The invite, and doing this, I don’t know, I’m.. I haven’t.. I haven’t done this, actually. I don’t know, maybe twice with the art beat, I guess. I did that, which was different, actually. Art beat.. well, I appreciate it. I wish you all the luck as a painter.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:40:23

Thank you so

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:40:24

much.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:40:26

Oh, thank you. You too.

Sarkis Antikajian: 1:40:28

Thanks.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:40:30

Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube, this helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.

Art is a bridge that helps guide souls back to themselves. That is why your art is important.

Let me illustrate with a short story: When Dante, of The Divine Comedy fame, was nine years old, he first encountered his Muse in a girl named Beatrice Portinari. During his lifetime, they exchanged only the smallest courtesies. And yet that one glimpse of beauty awakened something in him that shaped everything he became.

Out of that moment came poems, devotion, longing, wonder — and eventually The Divine Comedy, one of the greatest works of art humanity has ever created. For Dante, Beatrice was more than a girl. She became Beauty made visible. She became the doorway through which the invisible entered his life. She became the Muse through which he learned Beauty is instruction for the soul.

Beatrice became Dante’s bridge to Divine Beauty.

Here’s why that is important: There is an old legend from World War II that, as the German army retreated from Florence, they destroyed the bridges over the Arno River one by one — until only the Ponte Vecchio remained. According to the legend, the German officer ordered to destroy it refused, saying, “This is the bridge where Dante met Beatrice. I cannot possibly destroy it.”

Historically, the story is probably not quite true. But Florence still tells the story anyway. And that matters.

It matters because myth, through Art, carries a deeper truth than facts alone can hold.

And that truth is this:

Art protects what force would otherwise erase.

Art is the language of the soul. Art transmits love through form. Art carries something invisible inside the artist and gives it visible form so another human being can feel it too.

Art itself is the bridge the soul can cross to Divine Beauty.

And today, that bridge is under threat — not from bombs, but from distraction, noise, commodification, ugliness, algorithms, and a culture that increasingly treats beauty as optional and creativity as “content.”

That is why your art matters. And it is why your artist website matters.

Your website is not merely a portfolio. It is not merely a sales tool. It is not just a place to upload images.

Your website is part of the bridge between your studio, your vision and the people your work is meant to reach.

It is a place where someone can slow down, look carefully, understand who you are, follow your work, inquire, collect, and return.

Your website, and the systems we build at FASO to support it, clearly tell the world something important:

“This is the work I am here to make. And this is the work only I can make.”

That is where the bridge toward liberation begins. That is how we protect what force would erase.

If that is how you view your art, please join us. This is about more than just where you host your website. In a world of growing AI, this is about joining with others who wish to protect the ecosystem of human artists. It’s about working with people who view the importance of human art the same way you do. It’s about saving the bridge.

Start with FASO for Free

Once The Kardia opens, and The Sovereign Artist Within is discovered, we begin to be inspired to create something that reflects the beauty of the universe all around us.

The Sovereign Artist may be understood as analogous to The Force from Star Wars and The Way from the Tao Te Ching. It is the Creator. It is God for those that believe in a god. It is, as Robert Frost poetically expressed, “the Secret that sits in the center and knows.”

We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.

—Robert Frost, The Secret Sits

Children don’t think about any of this “God” mumbo-jumbo, but, nonetheless, this sovereign life-giving light smiles upon them and, as we can easily observe, children simply live in the world that is, and, through their imaginations, transform it into the world that could be. That too, is the artist’s job.

The Sovereign Artist, you see, is not about belief, it’s a kind of felt music; a resonant inner knowing.

Receive the world in your arms.

If you receive the world,

the Tao will never leave you

and you will be like a little child.

—Lao Tse

Those words were written by Lao Tse in the Tao Te Ching over 2,500 years ago. The Chinese honorific suffix, “Tse” means something like “master” while simultaneously also meaning “child.”

That points to a truth: to be a true master, you must be “born again” into a second childhood.

In some ways, the surrender you must make to tap into the power of The Sovereign Artist is the hardest thing you’ll ever do; for you must let go of your ego and “die” if you wish to “bear much fruit.”

But in other ways, it’s the simplest thing in the world to come home to yourself.

When The Sovereign Artist sits upon the throne of your psyche, you recover a child’s playful joy—but now joined to a master’s skill. And the combination of the two is what turns you into an instrument of The Divine.

The journey starts by remembering the child inside. How poetic that the Chinese language expresses this idea in a single word: Tse.

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PS — One of the reasons I built FASO is because I believe art is important, artists are important, and the work you’re called to create deserves to be taken seriously. We are all sharing “miracles of existence” through our art.

Yes, at FASO, we build professional artist websites. Yes, we talk about marketing. Yes, we give artists tools to present their work, tell their stories, reach collectors, and sell more art.

But that is the how.

The why is that we love art, and we want to push back against a world that too often treats art like content and artists like algorithms. The modern world denigrates Beauty in preference of profit and efficiency. At FASO, we hold Beauty sacred.

So we don’t just host artist websites. We promote artists. We feature their work. We try, in our own small way, to help more art find the people who need it. And that informs everything we do and build.

If that resonates with you, we’d be honored to have you join us.

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PPS — If you’re not ready to look at FASO, you can support our mission by simply clicking the heart icon at the top or bottom of this article. That helps us reach more artists and art lovers and helps us spread Beauty to a world that is desperate for it.

—Clint

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What does it actually mean to make it as an artist? We’re not talking about the bubblegum advice you find on Instagram. We’re talking about the real work of being an artist; the day-in, day-out marathon; the changing goals artists experience as their careers progress. In this episode we wade out into the weeds of making it in the visual art business.

We’ve had the privilege of sitting down with some of the most seasoned working artists we know, and when we ask them about success, the answers always surprise us. So for this episode, we’ve pulled together some of the most honest, hard-won perspectives from past guests. These veterans share what success actually requires, what it costs, and what it turns into over time.

Episodes Mentioned:

100 Kevin MacPherson

101 Joseph Gyurcsak

105 SC Mummert

130 Scott Ruthven

140 Donald Yatomi

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Transcript:

Donald Yatomi: 0:00

What is success to you?

Scott Ruthven: 0:02

You set a goal for yourself, and the goal might be lofty, right? You want to be a self-supporting professional artist,

SC Mummert: 0:07

you know that all takes a level of ambition and drive to go ahead and see that through, and you’ve got to have that work ethic to make that, you know, to make that function, and that directly to me that directly correlates into, you know, how much success you experience on some level.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:25

Welcome to The FASO Podcast, where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I’m your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips, specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. What does it actually mean to make it as an artist? Not the Instagram version, the real version, the one that looks different at 25 than it looks at 50, the one that shifts quietly under your feet while you’re busy just trying to keep painting. I’ve had the privilege of sitting down with some of the most seasoned working artists I know, and when I ask them about success, the answers always surprise me. So today I’ve pulled together some of the most honest, hard-won perspectives from past guests on what success actually requires, what it costs and what it turns into over time. We often start our careers chasing milestones, the magazine feature, the gallery acceptance, the moment someone finally says you’ve made it. But what happens after that moment arrives?

Kevin Macpherson: 1:35

I guess having a vision, like as I said earlier, when I wanted to be an illustrator, I wanted to be the best, and I never had my parents never pushed me to do anything, you know. I didn’t have that thing. Sometimes when people, maybe their parents were a lawyer, and they want them to be a lawyer, they, you know, kind of fight that, you know, they don’t do what they want to do, so I had my own path, and I think I’ve always made my own choices, whether they were good or bad, and not tried to necessarily follow someone else’s method of success, again, maybe that’s a stupid thing, because there’s great people that we can learn from, and you know, skip over some things. I some people I remember a very fine artist when we were starting out. He really stressed he wanted to get into the Southwest art magazine or something, and he finally did. He thinks, okay, now I’ve made it, but you every time you get into a magazine, and I’ve been in hundreds and written my books, and you know they’re all little stepping stones, so I don’t think there’s one thing that’s going to make you all of a sudden be the star, and you know we’ve all, you know, I always, I remember like getting articles, the up and coming artists, you know, like, you know, when we’re young, all of a sudden, now 40 years are passed, you know, now we’re the old guys, you know, like that old guy, he’s still alive, they say,”Oh, Kevin’s still alive, you know, it seems like it goes in a blink of an eye, in a way, and you know, so again, finding your path, that you enjoy the process, I think, is important to it. The struggles, I guess, I’ve always accepted the struggles. One of the hardest things for me that I have dealt with was always extremely shy, you know. I didn’t, you know, I couldn’t go in front of people in school, you know, I, I got out of even oral book reports. My teacher knew I couldn’t do it without passing out, so she let me illustrate my book reports, and I think that was her name was mrs. Penny, so I love her to this day, that she helped me, you know, one more stepping stone of doing my art, and when I became a fine artist and was asked to teach, I literally had to go to a hypnotist for eight weeks just to get the courage to get in front of the people the first time, and and I would just have sweat attacks, and into this day when I still do keynote speaking for the Portrait Society, or the Plein Air Convention, or wherever it might be. I just was in Ireland a couple of weeks ago, and did that at the Art in the Open. I still have anxiety about that. So, overcoming that for me as part of my career, as getting out in front of people and sharing teaching, which is very rewarding to me, and I really see that’s one of the best things I think the art has given me the opportunity to share that knowledge through my books and my workshops, but overcoming that fear that I had my whole life is one of the. Biggest struggles, but it’s important that I force myself to do it, so I can add that much more part to my art life.

Laura Arango Baier: 5:08

Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I can imagine how it’s fascinating, because as artists, it’s a very solitary career, it’s a very in your studio or away from people in your own little world type of career, but it’s, it’s amazing to think that it’s actually quite a social career, especially if you want to, you know, sell your work or have some success, right? You have to put yourself out there, so it’s, it’s very important, like you said, to overcome that. Wow, that’s amazing.

Joseph Gyurcsak: 5:42

Yeah. yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 5:44

so actually now that we’re on the topic of success, right, because obviously success has different meanings for everyone, but in terms of your career, what do you find has been the greatest key to your success?

Kevin Macpherson: 6:02

I think just continuing to do it, you know, to continue to strive to improve, and, and that word, improving, or, you know, is tricky. It’s more like an evolution, I think. You know, there’s things I painted 30 years ago I couldn’t do today, and maybe some of those are my finest paintings, you know, like never know when you’re going to get that great one, so you know moving forward every day and continuing, you might get that great one. There’s. I was just in Ireland, as I mentioned, and I went back to a location that was near one of my best paintings I ever done. It was called Celtic Brilliance. That painting I did it, and the day before I painted that painting on location, I had eight weeks of painting in Ireland that I was just doing some miserable stuff. At least mentally, I got really depressed, and I never got that. For I don’t know why, but I was.. I had one of my worst painting days right before my best painting day. So we never really know when that’s going to happen, when. when all of a sudden something clicks, something works, and as I said, the evolution, as I continue to do new subjects or try different things, I evolve, and so sometimes my evolution, you know, my collectors sometimes say, “Oh, your work is changing, and I know what they mean by that. They mean I don’t like it anymore, you know. I prefer what you were doing before, and so.. and that that happens. So, again, you have to, you know, trust yourself that you’re moving in a place that might get you somewhere. So, sometimes we go down a path that you get worse for a while, right before something new happens.

Laura Arango Baier: 8:09

Kevin’s point about stepping stones is one I keep coming back to. Success isn’t a destination that you arrive at, it’s something you keep redefining as you move, but staying in motion, especially when things aren’t working requires something beyond talent, it requires structure. Joseph Gurksack came up as a professional illustrator before transitioning to fine art, and that background gave him something a lot of studio artists don’t have: business discipline. He had a lot to say about what consistency, community, and honest feedback actually do for a career,

Joseph Gyurcsak: 8:41

you have to have an organized business artist, or well, let’s, let’s phrase it this way, professional graphic artist, or professional illustrator, at least in my time of coming up, you really had to be quite the business person, very organized, and you had several different hats at the time, you had, you know, your part where you had your skill, and you could do whatever you needed to do as far as being called to the job, but you also had to be able to communicate well with the different companies that you were working with, and you also had to understand your own accounting. You also have to understand how to be organized in your, in your studio, and deliver a job on time, and get have good rep record keeping, be your own photographer, and you know, at the end of the day, if you take, if you look at the total job description of any of these, and this certainly applies to fine artists too, but I like to say. There is an abundance of illustrators that became fine artists and became very successful painters in the fine art world, because they had the discipline in their illustration career, so that illustration career discipline really helped me in the studio, when I come into work, my studio is usually very organized, and I know exactly where I’m going and what I’m trying to do to get accomplished for that work, because I have galleries that need, you know, want the next painting or this, that so it having a structure and having a plan always in the beginning, not as much now, because I’ve accomplished many, many of my goals and been very blessed that way, but in the very beginning I was doing various self-help tapes and things like Tony Robbins and all this stuff, and trying to find structure to my career and trying to find, you know, the steps that needed to be done. One year, the five year, 10 year, what does that look like? Where do you want to be? You have to know where you’re going to get there, so you have to have steps, and even though if you write out these steps, you might not accomplish them exactly the way it goes, but at least you have some sort of direction, and you will see if you journal your steps and your path, you will see that you most likely you will accomplish a lot of things on that list, you’ll be able to tick them off and say I’m on to the next thing and check it off. So, yeah, I’m all about that. That really, when I was struggling as a transition from an illustrator to a fine artist, I was really struggling for order and direction, and I didn’t know how that would happen to become a fine artist. I didn’t even know what that meant. I was getting in really good galleries right off the bat, and I had no idea how good they were, and I blew some of those relationships. So, I learned really early on, whoa, this was a bad thing, and I can’t get back in that gallery now, so yeah, no, you, you learn along the way, you have to have failure, you have to have failure, so you just gotta own up to where your weaknesses are, and then you have to work on them, because you’re going to have really good strengths, and then you’re going to have areas where you really have to focus on, hey, this is a deficit. Hey, I might be a really great painter, but I’m really disorganized, and I can’t deliver these paintings in time. What’s going on here? How can I do this better? So you always have to ask the question, how can I do this better? And if you get into a rhythm and a full blow, and you start to see, you know, hey, this worked. I’m having success. I’m getting into shows. I’m, you know, again selling the paintings, you know. You stay in that mode, and you slowly work in that, and you improve and extend yourself a little bit more. There was another turning point was in the early 90s. Artist magazine had John Howard Sandin, keys to success. He was a portrait pair. He’s now passed away, but he had 17 steps. I know if I’m saying this now, people are going to ask you for it, so I’ll send

Donald Yatomi: 13:42

you a copy

Joseph Gyurcsak: 13:42

of it, but yeah, I followed those 17 steps. It’s not something you could do in a week, a month, a year. It’s going to take many years to do the 17 steps if you really do them right, but that I credit with giving me the power, the direction, the organization to become what you term as a professional, right? Because you know at some point you’re going to like, if I can liken it to, I tell my kids, I, you show up to a demo and everything changes. Well, and you planned on doing something a certain way, and you had to lecture a certain way, and this and that, and you were going to do this painting. It was pre-planned, and now you have hundreds of people watching you do this painting, and everything is wrong. Everything changes. Well, being a professional is having the ability to move when you need to, and change when you need to, and be seamless, and that that’s not something you can.. oh, I got to train to be prepared, that happens over time through our unfortunate failures, you know, and people don’t like to hear that, but you have to learn through. To the things that you did in the past. Oh boy, man, I really failed there. I’ve got to do better than that. So I have found that to be, you know, like so many other people have said, you know, the win when you’re winning, there’s nothing to learn from that. That’s just a lot of fun. It’s the end point of something, but there’s nothing to learn from that. It’s just the glory, right? But when, when you’re going through stuff and you have to continually make adjustments, that’s when you’re really growing. It’s a couple things, I think. Being.. I wrote down some things. being inflexible is really bad, you know, if something is, you can work on something, and you can be determined to push it through, and you can give something that respectful time to develop it, but if you keep running into a wall and there’s absolutely no breakout, you really have to have some self reflection and look back, doesn’t mean that you have to change everything, but there may be some adjustments you have to do to make your idea or your journey or whatever it is, work better, so being inflexible is not always a good thing. You can be stubborn and say I’m holding on to this, this is what I’m going to do in this night, that’s great to a certain point, but I think you have to be able to take criticism, and you have to be able to sometimes allow yourself to hear other people’s opinion, and you have to reflect on that once you hear it, because it may be a difference maker. There may be, say, if you’re in your own little mode for a long time and you haven’t reached out to anyone, it’s probably a good idea to join a group or be part of something that’s bigger than you, so that you can get feedback and the relationships that you develop as an artist over time are pretty invaluable. I have so many artists that I can reach out to, and they reach out to me just for a quick conversation to hear how they’re doing, what we’re doing, what’s happening, what are you struggling with, that type of thing is really, we’re just trying to get rid of this email here. Yeah, those kind of things be consistent. Being consistent is probably the biggest downer that I see with the young artists that aren’t being successful. The reason why they’re not being successful is they’re probably having a consistency issue. So, if you had some success with something like I said earlier, maintain that, do that over again. Don’t start a new foundation somewhere else. I mean, it’s all in these success books and tapes, and whatever you want to, I mean, you hear these things over and over, but there is true that has it’s valid, you, if you find something that’s working, stay with it, do more of it, you know, and do it to the highest degree, and don’t compromise on the level of product that you’re going to put out there, it has to be your very best every time, and then the next one should be better than that one, so you’re always trying to up your game, and also, like John Howard Sanders said, hit your self to a star for a time, be with someone else that has already made it, and that you’re really loving their career. You don’t have to copy them, but you have to see how what’s making their thing tick so well, and how are they doing it, and if you can get in a situation where you can get a into a mentor program as a young artist. It’s really valuable to get that, that personal time, one on one with a, with an experienced artist, and get that feedback, what they really need to hear, what you, what you really need to hear. As far as, hey, you’re over here now, but you’ve got to do these things to get over there, and what’s your goal? Okay, again, where are you going, and what are the steps that you’re going to need to get there? We have to figure that out and break that down, figure out what you know, what are your weaknesses, where do. Have to work on those things, you know, that type of stuff. That mentality will get you there. And being disciplined, like I said, going in the studio, doing, having a certain time and a certain place to work. I remember we didn’t move too far from our other house, it’s just a block away, made the big move. My wife, my wife, God bless her, Lisa. She, when I was starting out as an illustrator, she’s like, yeah. And I was teaching in this back room, and then we started having children. She’s like, you can’t do this in here, and they’re like, well, where am I going to do it? She’s like, no, you have to have a separate studio in the yard or something. I said, well, how’s that going to happen? We can’t do that. Yes, we can start looking at buildings and figure out what we’re going to build there. So I’m like, really, and she’s like, yeah, you need it. So I built, we had this barn built in the backyard, and that was my studio, and you’d walk down there, and the students could go down there, and I could do my work down there, and I could do my teaching, and it was, it was a valuable thing. You have to have a set workplace with limited distraction. It’s very, very good for you to have a place that you can go to, and, like I said before, that’s well organized, so that when you’re ready to work, you know, look, the reality is, when you’re a young artist, unless you’re really successful right off the bat, you’re going to have to have other jobs. That was my journey, I had really rough spots, and I had all these other jobs and things, and the main thing that kept me on course was teaching to other artists, so that I could always have my head in the game, and the second other thing that I always prided myself on was keeping the studio in an organized fashion, ready to go. Everything was ready to work when the inspiration happened, because if you’re going to have to clean up for four hours before you do a painting, it ain’t going to happen. So, and if you have a limited amount of time, I have over the years, over my journey, have sometimes very limited time to paint, so when I come in, it’s I’m a nighttime painter. A lot of times I do a painting and I’m ready to go. I turn the light on, I can work, I’m organized. That kind of stuff will give you success, especially if you’re on the journey. You start selling your paintings and enter shows, you have to be part of programs, find out where you, where your home is, where you feel most invited with whatever artist group, because there’s going to be groups that you may, maybe never can get in, but there might be other artist groups that you’ll be really accepted in some society on the I’m in the Oil Painters of America as a signature member, and I’m a signature member of the American Society Impressionist Society. So I have gained the level of signature level, and that takes a while to do that, but I’m part of those groups. I know all the artists in those groups, they know me. It’s a great relationship. It’s nice to have that support around you as you’re growing as an artist, and also it kicks your butt a little bit when you go to a show and you see some amazing pains, you’re like, “Damn, you know, I gotta my game a little bit more here, you know, because I remember the first time I got in Oil Painters America, I went there and I was like, okay, this is why I couldn’t get in for like eight years, because I smelled the paintings and they were like, wow, they kick ass, so okay, it’s a wake-up call. Okay, this is at another level. So, and same thing with the American Precious. I love those guys, and you go to the show, and you’re like, God, all right. I love my painting, but look at that thing, you know? Like, it’s good to do that. It sharpens you, you know? Does that make sense? All that stuff, right?

Laura Arango Baier: 24:24

Yeah, definitely. Because I understand, you know, we, a lot of us become artists because we’re very independent, we’re very introverted, we’re very sometimes shy, and we almost exist in a bit of a vacuum, right? We don’t really have a community, we stay in our studio, we paint all day, so I, it is a great, great thing, like you’re saying, to go out, meet other artists, and feel a little bit challenged every so often in, in your ways, because they’re also growth might stagnate, you know, it might be very hard to continue that growth if you’re still doing the same thing over and over without. Maybe shifting that vision by saying the

Joseph Gyurcsak: 25:04

feedback,

Laura Arango Baier: 25:05

yes, yes, that is so key, yes, and actually that goes seamlessly into my next question, which is, What do you find has been the key to your success,

Joseph Gyurcsak: 25:22

I am. I’ve been always a competitive person. I don’t want to say I was a full jock kind of person, but I was in sports, I was in football, I was in track, I was a captain of the track team. I think those early on things were good for me, because I had struggled. I didn’t really learn, and this may be sound shocking to you, but I didn’t really learn to read or write till I was in my 30s. So, the key to my success is perseverance and determination, sheer determination. I’ll, well, first of all, you asked me early on my journey. I, you don’t choose to be an artist, you don’t wake up one day and say you’re going to be an artist. I, at least, I don’t look at that way. Yeah, people can want to become a painter and everything, but it for me in the soul, I mean, really, when you get down to it, I don’t, it’s a calling, it’s a calling, because there’s no way that you can stay with something for 50 years, I’ve been painting for 50 years, there’s no way you could stay into for something with all the ups and downs that you would be able to come out on the other side in a better way if you weren’t fully committed to it, you know, and it was a passion, and it’s one thing to have a passion that’s good and that’s important, but you also have to have a burning desire, and you have to have, you know, that determination to follow through, and, like I said, I have changed God so many times over the years. There was a time where I was a Trump Lloyd type painter in the beginning, and I knew that that wasn’t my calling. I felt it, it wasn’t me, I could render like so many other artists, and I loved that stuff, but it wasn’t me. So I had to keep going on the journey and find out where I really lived, and it all has to do with that perseverance, that determination, staying focused, and never giving up. The hardest times, when you’re about to give up, I could tell you from my 50 year journey as a painter, when I was just about ready to throw the talent, something great would happen, because I had the fishing line out there for multiple things, and then as I got the bad news about, oh, you’re not accepted in this show, you didn’t do this, you didn’t sell this, and then one good thing would happen and pull me along again, so you know, in order to, to, you know, keep going, you definitely have to get, like I said, the feedback, you have to get your peer, you know, feedback is really important, because when you, when you are involved with other things beyond your studio, those things help lift you up and give you more confidence. So, I know artists are going to lack confidence when they’re, when they’re failing and they’re struggling. It’s important to say you have to just keep working through it, and, and I remember one time there’s so many turning points in my life, if you think about 50 years, but I was really down and having a really hard time and pretty depressed, and my wife said to me, Why are you doing this? And I said, she said, You used to do this because you loved it, and now I don’t see that in you, and my God, those words were so penetrating, because I thought, oh my God, she’s right. Originally I did this because I loved it, not because of all these other things, whether it worked out or not. And every time I come in the studio now, I think about I’m doing this, and I’m blessed because I can do this thing and I can do it well and I appreciate just the the ability to do it, I think when you’re in order to have success, if I could wrap that up in something. And share that with the artists, is that you, you have to, you have to be completely free, your mind has to be clear, and that’s the point where you’re in the zone, and you’re creating something incredible that sometimes after you finish the creation, you don’t even know how you arrived there, and then that work or that art I have found when I share that, that speaks to the volume of people out there, and there’s something undeniable about you painting some truth with your own vision, with your own heart, and if it comes out extraordinary, there’s something that can’t be denied about that. I have entered paintings that I was like, you know, this is this is this painting is like something to me, it’s like, and other people feel it, whether it wins an award or not, but I get you get feedback, especially on social media now, but when you put it out there and people are giving you feedback, it’s not, oh, I just need that feedback to survive, but it’s important because you have a certain, you put a part of you out there, and when you put that part of you out there, and it’s sincere, and it’s real, and it’s part of you. People are definitely going to recognize that, and I could say, you know, there is no term for being original or finding your style. Just paint where your gut and be free in your mind, and do your work, and the rest of it will will all fall into place, as if you just keep working at it, you know. Yeah, there are skill levels that need to be addressed, and all this stuff, if you want to reach a certain representational painting, or whatever, whatever painting, it doesn’t have to be anything like I’m doing, or like any other artists do, but you’ll find your zone if you’re really digging down deep and you’re following that path, and then you start sharing that path. I think a lot of artists I had students over the years that they were coming for a long time, they wouldn’t enter their paintings and anything, and I’m like, no, you have to put that out there, you have to put that out there, you’ve been in this journey, and you know, now you start need to share, so just Saturday mornings with, I’m not traveling, I have a Saturday morning class here, and I’ve been doing that forever, you know, it’s my way giving back. So, two of my students, three of my students were telling me about awards that they recently won, and they were so excited about it. Now, I’ve been working with these artists for a couple years, and I’m like, yes, that’s what, not the awards, so much, but the fact that they put their work out there and let people see it. You can’t really just live in that bubble and do the work, do the work. I know other artists that have never taken their work out, and I’m like, this is fabulous, you need to enter this or that, and they won’t do it, but you know that’s their loss. I mean, I feel like when you create a painting, it’s got to go out into the world. My wish is that yes, it’s going out to the world, it’s going to find that. I just had a call from my gallery yesterday, one of my pains, the woman said she has to have the painting, she has, if she doesn’t, she’ll be sad. My God, what better compliment for success do you need to hear than that? Like, the person is actually emotionally attached to it before they even bought

Scott Ruthven: 33:55

it. Like,

Joseph Gyurcsak: 33:55

that’s it. You made the connection. You only have to make a connection to one person at a time, when you’re selling their paintings, too,

Laura Arango Baier: 34:04

that idea of feedback as a lifeline, not just ego validation, but real directional information came up again and again, and so did the question of what’s actually driving you when you walk into the studio. If you’ve been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly webinar, The FASO Show, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories, and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you’re a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn, and spark new ideas. And whether you’re stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don’t miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next FASO show webinar is coming up on the 18th of July with our special guest, Timothy Tyler. You can find the signup link in the show notes. At Boldbrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, be. Because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity, and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles, and a free monthly art contest, open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that, to sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that’s B O L D B R U S H show.com The FASO Show is sponsored by FASO. Now, more than ever, it’s crucial to have a website when you’re an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, FASO.com, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that’s basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e-commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won’t get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step guides on what you should be doing today, right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So, if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, FASO.com, that’s FASO.com. SC Mummert has built a career that runs almost entirely on intentionality, he spent six weeks away from the brush just to understand the marketing, and what he discovered changed how he thought about creating altogether.

SC Mummert: 36:49

I’m just going to say it, because I think it’s fair. You know, your own work ethic, your own self-discipline will have a tremendous impact on your own success. I feel, you know there’s not going to be anybody to wake up and force you to go down to the studio and do this, you know, and ideally you don’t need that anyway, but still it’s not there, and so you have to have a level of drive, you know, to go ahead and I would say achieve to achieve any success, as I mean, I’m an entrepreneur, I would say that any, any artist that’s out trying to do will say what I do. You have to be, you’ve got all these different hats you’ve got to put on, you know, where you’ve got your shipping hat, you’ve got your, you know, maybe your marketing hat, you’ve got all these different things that you got to do as an entrepreneur, and so forth. And so, you know, that all takes a level of ambition and drive to go ahead and see that through, and you’ve got to have that work ethic to make that, you know, to make that function, and that directly to me, that directly correlates into, you know, how much success you experience on some level. I think there’s, there’s that that interactive thing that, you know, my dad used to say, the harder you work, the luckier you got, you know. And I think that that’s there’s some truth to that, you know. If you have that, if you roll your sleeves up and you apply yourself because you love what you do, you know, when that happens, then it’s remarkable what can unfold, you know. And again, I’ve experienced that. I’ve been very privileged to be allowed to do what I love for a living, you know. Grateful that is, that should probably be everybody’s question that we need to ask ourselves. What happened to me? So, what happened to me? About, I’ll make it up here, because it’s, it’s, it’s almost like I can’t tell what a year is anymore, because a year goes by for me, it feels like about 90 days or something, it’s just, it’s pretty odd, but so I’ll just say, like, four years ago, maybe five years ago, I became disgusted with my own lack of understanding about marketing, and so I went ahead and put the brushes down for, I think, like six weeks, which is quite a spell. And then began to just read everything I could and try to immerse myself into this and really get a better understanding on marketing, and which helped. All that was beneficial. Then I went ahead and found a couple of coaches. I, in fact, I’m still working with a guy out of Australia, and there’s another guy out of.. I was, I was getting coached by two guys, whenever out of Australia, the other guy out of Atlanta, Georgia, and I’d have these weekly coaching sessions, you know, when they were helping me with marketing, and. and that transformed me also, because there’s it’s very comprehensive, actually, in what happens when you begin to understand and get a better grip and dig into marketing, it actually helps you in the creation of your art. You wouldn’t think it would necessarily, but what it begins to do, it helps you start to. It a grip on your audience that you’re creating the art for, and so, for example, like we’ll just use Nashville, that maybe that’s the Center for Country Western Music, we’ll say those guys know exactly what their audience is, you know, I, and when they craft a song for their audience, and they, they’re making a song that they enjoy that they love making, but they also understand what their listeners and what their audience, what will appeal to them, and so it’s a win-win. And so, what happens once you begin to understand marketing and maybe building an avatar for the kind of person you’re in fact trying to create your product for, and so forth, and I’m not saying make something that you don’t like, that’s not my point, but the very, the very best thing that can happen is that you find something that you enjoy making and you find out it’s also happens to be something that the audience is seeking, and so when you, when you, when you have that convergence like that, which is happening in my own life, frankly, right now, so when that, when that happens, then you have the best of best of everything, because it’s all synergistic, you know, and so, but that a lot of that understanding with with marketing and so forth continues to affect almost everything that I do right now, including concepts for paintings, and so forth, and you know that creative element, that’s it’s a little mysterious, even to me, you know that. How you can kind of put all this together, and, and go to sleep, and wake up in the morning, you’ve got an idea that maybe you didn’t have when you went to sleep, and maybe you’re subconscious and worked on that, whatever, I don’t know, but the bottom line is that something pops out, but this marketing element actually influences that as well, you know, whatever you, whatever pops out of you, you know, and then that again affects what you end up producing, and so as far as marketing, so what happens is this is this is interesting because marketing will always take time. Marketing will take time. Now, the marketing, the time could be you, besides some easels at a park with your work, and you’re talking, you’re interacting with people that may walk by in the park, and you’re maybe you’re talking to them about, you know, them buying your art, that’s taking time, took time to set the easels up to drive there, set your art up, and so forth, time, so there’s all that investment of time, so that same little micro example of is can be applied to almost everything, you, there’s always time spent to end up being a success in art via via some marketing vehicle, and that vehicle can be the thing in the park. It can also be a gallery. The gallery is simply a vehicle to market your art. A show can be a vehicle to market your art, and so on and so forth. So, as long as we understand the vehicle and the price we’re going to pay, whether it’s time or a percentage that you give away of money rather than your time to stand there, you know, so forth. It’s all picking a vehicle, and what’s going to be the most successful fit for you. Maybe it’s time on Facebook, you know, maybe it’s, you know, however that’s done. Maybe a social media like I’m saying, you know, it’s just finding the vehicle that fits your own pre-elections, and you know what you feel is going to be your time spent best with your, you know, your personality, and that’s all that’s all marketing. And in my particular instance, I work hand in glove with the galleries that I’m in, and we, it’s pretty remarkable, because it takes a very special gallery to work with me. I’ll just, I’ll just say that, and that’s that’s no criticism against anybody else. It’s, it’s just what I, what we have. Part of the reason why I have, I would say I would assign my success to is that I have galleries that I can take and give concepts to, and they will spend the time to take these concepts, and maybe I’ll give them maybe eight concepts. I’ll pick the number eight, and I’ll say, well, here these are concepts that I’ve come up with. What do you think about that? And what they’ll do is they’ll actually take their high net or ultra high net worth clientele that they have this relationship with that I don’t have that they’ve gone ahead and fostered and poured themselves into, but they’ll take the initiative to go ahead and run those concepts past their clientele, and then the clientele will say, well, I think these, I don’t like it, because I like them all, but that doesn’t mean that the clients will, the people with the money, and so they’ll go ahead and say, well, here I, these, and maybe they’ll pick three or four out of the eight that are winners, and so then I’ll go ahead and produce the three or 4p Paintings will say, and I know you’ll be shocked to hear they’re selling before they’re off the easel. In many cases, because they’re virtually pre-sold. In fact, I had - there’s a national show here in the West Coast that wanted me in the show, and a guy got a hold of me on behalf of the guy running the show, and he said,”Well, here we just want a painting, he’s mummer. He says,”I don’t care what it is, we just want one of your paintings in the show. And I said, “Well, gosh, that’s flattering. I said,”I don’t have anything. And he said, “Come on, every artist has got paintings hanging around their studio. I said, “Dude. I said, “I don’t. I said, “Come on over. He was a local guy that called me, and he said, “No. I said, “His name was Mark. I said, Mark, come over to the studio, you find a painting you can put in the show. I said, I’m wiped out. The only painting I have is on the easel. Now that’s a.. any.. he said, really? I said, Mark, yes, you know. And I said, if it wasn’t that way, something’s wrong, you know? Because, because I want.. I want that’s the level of success that I hope for, you know. And so, in the good news is that I’m very blessed that that’s been happening that way, and but I’m trying to give you kind of a glimpse behind the scenes of the mechanics that, so there’s this marketing stuff that’s affecting the way that I create the concepts, and I get feedback from my galleries as well, they’ll tell me, well, they don’t like this, and this is why they didn’t like it, but they’d like this, and this is why they like that, and so forth. So I’m getting all this live feedback, and I feel that all success is based on a all progress. I’ll just say it this way, all progress is based on a on a feedback loop, on an accurate feedback loop. So if you saw, I couldn’t even walk to my car if I did, if I close my eyes, which are my feedback loop, if I, if, if I try to walk to my car, maybe my hands become my feedback loop, or a stick, you know, and I can try to find my way to my car, but it’s all based on feedback, and that’s critical to an artist, because what happens if we don’t have feedback, if we, and that could be that could be feedback from someone standing at at their easels in the park, and people are, and they’re talking, then they’re interacting, and they’ll say, well, gee, you know, I, I like this landscape here, but I don’t like the dog you painted here, and, well, why not, you know? And then you can start to get this feedback, so that’s all that will all benefit you, and maybe sometimes we don’t like hearing that, but I think it’s all beneficial. I think even the bad stuff will help us, you know. We can go.. well, I don’t think I’m going to do that again. We can, we can learn, but it’s all based on this, on this feedback. And my galleries are very, very efficient and very good at doing it with me. And not every gallery is prepared to do that. There was a gallery I was up in Carmel, California, which is an amazing small town. Have you been there? So

Laura Arango Baier: 47:51

good things,

SC Mummert: 47:52

it’s amazing, and it’s just as high net worth. We’ll just say very charming town that has.. last time I was up there. They had 82 galleries in this little small area, so just mind blowing. And so I poked my head in. I was actually asking marketing questions to one of the sales guys in this large gallery up there, and they said, “Well, here, just.. and so he introduced me to the owner, and I said, ‘Listen, I’m an artist, I don’t want to take your time, you know, if you’re busy, please, you know, I’ll let you go. Oh, no, no. And so they wanted to talk to me. And so then, well, what, you’re an artist, look, let me see your art. And so the easiest thing these days is to whip your phone out, you know, and you can show somebody a picture of your art. Well, the next thing I know, they’ve got the other owner in, and they’ve got me back in a room, and they want to carry my art, you know, and which I mean, wow, that’s very flattering. I appreciate that. And so we’re talking about percentages and all that stuff, you know. Okay. Well, we’ll see. Well, as it turned out, the reason why I bring that up, as it turned out, they were not prepared. They said what they said. They said,”Listen, you make 10 paintings, and then we’ll pick six out of the 10 that we like, and we’ll take the six, and I thought, well, if I do 10 paintings, I want all 10 to sell, I don’t want to just have four back in my studio, right, and so, and I said, well, you know, I need, okay, because every region and market is different, so Carmel will have a different market than Santa Fe, New Mexico, and Santa Fe, New Mexico will have a different market than downtown New York City, you know, so forth, and so you ideally you’re creating just like the Nashville with the country was, you know, you’re creating product that’s going to be a success in that market, and they weren’t willing to spend the time to give me the feedback to be a success, I felt, you know, in their market, and I understand that I’m not here to criticize that. It’s just that I, I’m looking for a gallery, and actually, in fact, I’m fortunate to work with galleries that will invest that time, and it’s been very successful for both of us. Franklin,

Laura Arango Baier: 50:01

that convergence he describes making what you love and discovering it’s also what your audience needs, that’s the thing every artist is chasing, whether they name it or not. But getting there takes showing up consistently over years in the practical, unglamorous ways. Scott Ruthven is one of those artists who brings a genuinely unusual lens to all of this. He came to painting after a long career in business, and it shows in the best possible way.

Scott Ruthven: 50:27

I was thinking about this last night, so I’ll start off with just bookkeeping and accounting, which seems kind of left field here, right? But it is one of those things. If you’re going to be selling your work, then you need to have those skills. It doesn’t have to be hard, but what’s really hard is if you wait all year and you try to remember what happened. That’s crazy, but you know there’s a lot of tax advantages. Everything as an artist, you know, if you’re going to paint, all your materials, all your time, your travel expenses are all tax deductible, so if you’re going to claim the income and pay taxes on that, you should look for and record and keep track of your deductions as well, but it can be a lot, so but I do think about that as a business. This is my business here, and I try to keep up with that. I do keep up with it on a daily basis. It’s part of my workflow, so bookkeeping is, you know, what I would say, accounting scares people away, but it’s bookkeeping, recording your mileage, recording your sales, that kind of thing. So that came really natural to me, but so beyond that kind of, you know, mired down in the weeds bookkeeping stuff, you know, I became comfortable speaking to large audiences, being accountable to goals, and my communication clarity, and communication promptness, you know, having a product like we said that looks good, it looks good from the back, it’s got certificate of authenticity, it’s got the little things that people care about as a product, right? The frames clean, it doesn’t have little smudges of fingerprints. I can’t tell you how many times I go into galleries and you see a frame full of fingerprints and dust, and you know the artist has just reused that thing over and over again, or somebody has. You know, my business career taught me that, you know, those details matter, and you know another example is if you’re you’re in a show or you’re not even going to a gallery, but you’re in a show and you’ve got to ship work, follow the instructions, be prompt replying to emails, the coordinator, whoever’s putting that work in to mount that show really appreciates that, and when you’re somebody you want them to say, “Gosh, you were a pleasure to work with. When you can do that, Who I have so many examples where my name was top of mind with somebody because of a good experience, right? And then when an opportunity came up, my name was in the top of their top of their mind, and so I got another opportunity, because they thought of me, you know. So it’s those details we got to produce good work, but that’s kind of the given. It’s all the other things, which can be a mountain of work. Honestly, it is running a business. You got to think about it as a business, try to be profitable, try to build on whatever you’re building, so you’ve got a network, you’ve got collector base, you’ve got social media following, all of these things you’re saying yes to opportunities, lot of times we don’t, I want to say no to an opportunity, I don’t really.. there was a movie a few years ago, probably too long ago, but I think it was called Yes Man, and he couldn’t say no to something, and it changed his life, that’s kind of, you know, the nutshell.. I couldn’t remember all the details, but to a point, you shouldn’t just say yes to everything and you’re chasing your tail, wasting all your time, but there are a lot of great opportunities that come up, and they might be scary because they push you out of your comfort zone, but you have to say yes, because you never know where they’re going to lead, who you’re going to meet. I meet fascinating people when I travel to these shows, or I plan air paint. Sometimes I pinch myself. I think, how do I.. some of the people I know and have met, and the experiences that I’ve gotten to do, I never would have if I weren’t like a TV personality or a rock star or something. I think, wow, this is amazing life. So, it can be a great life as an artist. Get out there, be uncomfortable, be professional, and you know, set, and then let’s talk about goals for a minute. Goal setting is another thing I learned from business, and I think can be a struggle for artists. There’s a great book that I recommend by Gary Keller, and it’s called The One Thing, and this book, The Essence of It, I read it two or three times when. You know, basically every year for a few years when I first found it, because I thought it was a great reminder, and it’s about, you know, how you, you set a goal for yourself, and the goal might be lofty, right? You want to be a self-supporting professional artist. Well, that’s hard to undertake at one thing, and it seems daunting, and maybe you procrastinate because you don’t know where to start, and so the whole concept of the one thing, which you should read, because there’s probably a lot more to it than I remember, but my key takeaway that changed my life in business, and this was years before doing art full time, but you know, you take that thing, you have your goal, you got to know where you’re going first of all, but then every day when you get up if you think about your goal, and you think, well, what’s one one thing I could do today? The smallest little thing, it doesn’t matter, what’s that one thing I could do today to move me in that direction. And that should be one of your top priorities, and you should do that before you get sucked into the rest of your day. You have alignment where you want to go, and then you’ve got just one little thing, and you think I could do that one thing today. Maybe it’s like I haven’t sent a newsletter. I’ve never sent a newsletter. It intimidates me. Well, what’s the one thing I could do today? I go into my Faso website and look at that newsletter link in there, and see what it takes, and just open that today. Maybe that’s your one thing. So, now you got past that scary thing. Well, tomorrow is all right. You know what? Maybe I’ll just write down an outline of what a monthly email or newsletter would be, and what you.. you know what happens is success builds on success. You say, I already moved forward a little bit, I can do this, and pretty soon you know we way underestimate what we overestimate what we can do in the short term, and then we weigh underestimate what we can achieve in a long period of time, or in a long distance of time, and you know it’s just I see that over and over in myself, if I move forward a little bit at a time on a regular basis toward a goal that I’m really sure of, and this is really, you know, trying to review your goals every day, do they align with where you are, who you want to be, where you want to be, and then thinking about that one thing, and you know, some days that one thing turns into five things, but you look back over a year and you know you’re amazed. I do a YouTube video or a YouTube channel, and I was looking at that. I pulled it up here. I have 78 videos on there now. If I, at the beginning of that thought. Okay, I need to start a YouTube and film 78 videos. I would be completely overwhelmed and never start. I can’t even really believe that I’ve done 78 videos, which you know isn’t a whole lot. There’s people with hundreds and hundreds, right? But for me, I look at that and I can barely even remember doing all of that work. It just seems like, how did it grow, but it was just doing one at a time, a little bit at a time, whatever I had the energy for, and you know, then back over time, that’s something that’s built on itself. People have subscribed, it gets more views, I’m reaching more people, I sell more art, I sell art from that kind of thing. So that’s a great book, and definitely one of the skills that I got from business is goal setting and holding myself accountable to achieving results over a period of time, so setting the timeframe for yourself and going after it as small in chunks as you need to for your your work and life situation

Laura Arango Baier: 58:42

through the one small thing today. I love that, because it makes the overwhelming feel possible. But all of these definitions of success - discipline, structure, marketing, community - they all still assume you know what you’re building toward, and that’s actually the harder question. Donald Yatomi came from the corporate video game world, which means he has a very particular perspective on what it costs to trade freedom for security and what it means to finally stop.

Donald Yatomi: 59:06

I mean, at the end of the day, it’s like you’re gonna, you’re gonna flourish, and you know, flourish. When I use the word flourish, it doesn’t always equate to money. It’s like, what, what is success to you, right? What, it’s man, when I was like, when I was working in the corporate world, doing video games, man, they pay you a lot of money, but you’re, you’re not really happy, you know what I mean, because you’re in this corporate structure, there’s so many rules and policies, and then it’s a collaboration decision in regards to art, so you got the whole world deciding what your art is supposed to look like in video games, right? So, and that’s your typical corporate structure, anyways, and you’re sitting. Sitting on the computer from Monday through Friday for eight to 10 hours, and you’re stuck, you know what I mean. And you know, for people that like to travel or take vacations, you have to go through all these steps to get permission to be allowed to go, and you know, it took me a long time to realize that, man, it’s like that’s you’re giving up your freedom for money, so it’s like, where do you put success? So that’s why I told you that I love that last webinar with with John Master, or Don

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:40

John, yeah,

Donald Yatomi: 1:00:41

he was able to articulate, I gotta watch it again, but he, he was able to articulate what was success to him, right? So it’s a balance between income, freedom, and doing what you love to do, right? So that’s you just got to put where, where your importance are

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:01

income, freedom, and doing what you love- three things that seem simple until you try to hold all of them at once. What strikes me about every one of these conversations is that success doesn’t get easier to define the longer you’re in it. If anything, it gets more personal, more specific, more yours. The goal posts move, and maybe that’s not a failure of ambition. Maybe that’s just what growth feels like. Thanks for listening. If something from today’s episode landed with you, I’d love to hear it. Reach out, leave a review, or share this with an artist in your life who’s in the middle of figuring it out. That’s what this community is for.

We have another post today by Eugene Terekhin, the man and the mind behind the publication Philosophy of Language.

Eugene is a regular contributing writer to The FASO Way.

This article will be locked in two days for paying members only.

Feature Article:

Einstein's Secret: Stop Thinking to Think Anew

Information is not knowledge. The only source of knowledge is experience. You need experience to gain wisdom.” – Albert Einstein.

I have always found this quote fascinating. One of the brightest minds of the 20^th century claims that knowledge is not information.

For Einstein, knowledge doesn’t come by thinking:

“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.”

Einstein was famous for his deep, solitary contemplation. He often spent hours, even days, immersed in thought, walking, scribbling in notebooks, or just staring out the window.

He once said: “I think and think for months, for years. Ninety-nine times, the conclusion is false. The hundredth time I am right.”

This hundredth time, however, wasn’t the result of thinking but of “swimming in silence.”

Einstein was a genius not because of how well he thought or solved mathematical problems, but because he realized that thinking itself might be a problem. He said:

“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.”

In other words, we must die to our familiar way of thinking in order to think differently. When we think the way we have always thought, we keep creating the same set of problems.

And those problems are unsolvable from the same level of consciousness that gave rise to them.

Einstein realized that true knowledge is not so much a matter of solving mathematical problems as of renouncing a particular type of consciousness.

What type of consciousness?

The one that thinks of knowledge as something we gain by collecting data points. Einstein found that truth comes to him when he ceases thinking.

In other words, truth is not something we reach out and grab – it is something that comes to us.

It is not something we seize but something that seizes us.

Truth comes – strikes us – as a revelation of Wonder. No wonder Einstein himself said:

“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is.”

He saw everything as a miracle.

He understood that if you reduce knowledge to information, you will want to collect as much data as possible. You will equate knowing with seizing data.

But this is exactly the type of consciousness that creates problems. We must realize that truth cannot be seized – it comes of its own accord. It reveals itself to a certain type of consciousness.

It reveals itself to a consciousness that humbly sees everything as a miracle. Such a consciousness is patient. It can wait for years until something suddenly becomes clear and lucid.

As Søren Kierkeggardt said:

“You cannot have the truth in such a way that you catch it, but only in such a way that it catches you.”

When we become too greedy for information, we betray true knowledge. It becomes unreachable.

Truth is revealed only to those who humble themselves before the vast miracle of existence. Truth yields itself to this type of consciousness.

To know, we must yield ourselves to experience.

And in experience, we become truly wise.

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PS — This is part of the mystery of Art—we must learn, as artists, to humble ourselves before the “vast miracle of existence” and there, we find Truth revealed, and that informs the “messages” that we encode on canvas, in writing, or in song that we then transmit to others.

One of the reasons I built FASO is because I believe art is important, artists are important, and the work you’re called to create deserves to be taken seriously. We are all sharing “miracles of existence” through our art.

Yes, at FASO, we build professional artist websites. Yes, we talk about marketing. Yes, we give artists tools to present their work, tell their stories, reach collectors, and sell more art.

But that is the how.

The why is that we love art, and we want to push back against a world that too often treats art like content and artists like algorithms. The modern world denigrates Beauty in preference of profit and efficiency. At FASO, we hold Beauty sacred.

So we don’t just host artist websites. We promote artists. We feature their work. We try, in our own small way, to help more art find the people who need it. And that informs everything we do and build.

If that resonates with you, we’d be honored to have you join us.

Get Started with FASO for Free

PPS — If you’re not ready to look at FASO, you can support our mission by simply clicking the heart icon at the top or bottom of this article. That helps us reach more artists and art lovers and helps us spread Beauty to a world that is desperate for it.
—Clint

Learn the magic of marketing with us here at FASO!
https://www.boldbrushshow.com/

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https://register.faso.com/live-guest

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For today’s episode, we sat down with Todd Williams, a Nebraska-born impressionistic oil painter who discovered his calling as a child, went on to study at the Kansas City Art Institute, worked a decade as an illustrator for Hallmark, and has since spent about 25 years as a full-time fine artist represented by major galleries. His work is driven by a desire to evoke emotion at both a distance and up close, with paint quality, broken color, and expressive brushwork often carrying as much weight as the subject itself. Technically, he emphasizes the “science” of painting—values, composition, clean value planes, and his value–color–mixture approach—as the left-brain foundation that lets him later enter a childlike, intuitive “spirit of painting” mode. A major milestone was his Legacy Nebraska Collection, a five-year project tied to Nebraska’s sesquicentennial that deepened his connection to place, history, and Native American subjects, and led naturally into his current series of bold, expressive Native American portraits and Western work. His advice to artists centers on perseverance, choosing strong and simple subjects to set yourself up for success, learning from both failures and wins, and accepting the ongoing tension between painting what sells and painting what most moves you. Over time, his definition of success has shifted from financial hunger and high output toward health, spiritual grounding, contentment, and relationships—treating the studio as a sacred space and the artistic journey itself as the true destination. Finally, Todd tells us about his upcoming activities, including teaching workshops with the Indiana Heritage Arts group in Nashville, Indiana and at the Merrick County Museum in his hometown of Central City, Nebraska, participating in ongoing and future Western-themed exhibitions (such as at the Museum of Western Art in Kerrville and Settlers West Gallery in Tucson), and contributing to the traveling “Painting the Arkansas Parks” exhibition organized through the Heart of America Artists for 2026–2027.

Todd’s FASO site:
toddwilliamsfineart.com/

Todd’s Social Media:
instagram.com/toddwilliamsfineart/

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Transcript:

Todd Williams: 0:00

Set yourself up for success, you know, and because a lot of times what we do is we choose maybe not the right reference to use, or we choose not the right subject, and you know, you need to keep things a little bit more simple in the beginning, so you can kind of build confidence in that, and so again, getting back to the four value planes, if you’re doing landscape painting, those are really important, just to keep those very simple, you know, within the values and those value planes, and then everything else will kind of fall into place.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:37

Welcome to The FASO Podcast, where we believe that Fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I’m your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips, specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights for today’s episode. We sat down with Todd Williams, a Nebraska-born impressionistic oil painter, who discovered his calling as a child, went on to study at the Kansas City Art Institute, worked a decade as an illustrator for Hallmark, and has since spent about 25 years as a full-time fine artist represented by major galleries. His work is driven by a desire to evoke emotion at both a distance and up close, with paint quality, broken color, and expressive brushwork often carrying as much weight as the subject itself. Technically, he emphasizes the science of painting values, composition, clean value planes, and his value color mixture approach as the left brain foundation that lets him later enter a childlike, intuitive spirit of painting mode, a major milestone was his legacy Nebraska collection, a five-year project tied to Nebraska’s sesquicentennial that deepened his connection to place, history, and Native American subjects, and led naturally into his current series of bold, expressive Native American portraits and Western work. His advice to artists centers on perseverance, choosing strong and simple subjects to set yourself up for success, learning from both failures and wins, and accepting the ongoing tension between painting what sells and painting what most moves you over time. His definition of success has shifted from financial hunger and high output toward health, spiritual grounding, contentment, and relationships, treating the studio as a sacred space and the artistic journey itself as the true destination. Finally, Todd tells us about his upcoming activities, including teaching workshops with the Indiana Heritage Arts Group in Nashville, Indiana, and at the Merritt County Museum in his hometown of Central City, Nebraska, participating in ongoing and future Western-themed exhibitions, such as the Museum of Western Art in Kerrville and Settlers West Gallery in Tucson, and contributing to the Traveling Painting the Arkansas Parks exhibition, organized through the Heart of America artists for 2026 through 2027 Welcome, Todd, to The FASO Podcast. How are you today?

Todd Williams: 2:53

Good, thank you, Laura.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:55

I’m excited to have you, because I saw your work, and I really thought I need to pick his brain about how he thinks through these gorgeous broken colors, and just the way that you navigate the canvas with your brush strokes is just.. it is so beautiful to look at, and I can’t get tired of just looking around your canvases, just seeing where all the colors end up, and how it creates such beautiful portraits and landscapes. So, I’m really happy to have you, and pick your brain about

Todd Williams: 3:28

it. Thank you. That’s so kind. Yeah, for me, I’ve always had, like, this dream of really wanting my work to evoke an emotion, really, to the viewer, and to be exciting on multiple levels, and so the actual paint itself to me was really exciting, and sometimes that in my mind, as I’m creating, becomes even more important than the subject is just the paint itself, and so you know, from a distance, you want your word to really read well, right? You want people to go, “Wow, I want to get up closer to that and see it, but then when they get up close and maybe even go in really close to see the details, I want them to be excited about the paint quality, and so for me that’s just.. I don’t know, something. As, as I began my journey as an artist, I wanted to try and evoke that type of an emotion to the viewer.

Laura Arango Baier: 4:39

Yeah, yeah, and I think it definitely shows through. There’s a very, like, it feels like you really care about what you’re painting, but also you don’t want to lose the expressiveness of the paint, and I can definitely see it. I really love how you treat your subject matter. It feels, yeah, it feels very delicate, but also expressive. It’s very. State,

Todd Williams: 5:01

thank you. Yeah, there is sensitivity to it, and of course, all the artists will tell you it’s really, you know, it’s about the values, and you have to get those right first, and then after you really accomplish that, what I would call the science of that, because there really is a science of painting, then you can get into more of your right brain and the creative side, and kind of let those, like, childlike enthusiasm to me is, is kind of the best way to describe it, is like you just kind of let, let the spirit kind of flow out of that, and let the work have a voice of its own, you know.

Laura Arango Baier: 5:45

Yeah, I agree, and I think that’s one of the hardest parts of pursuing, you know, an artistic career as well, is how to allow yourself to do that. Right, I feel like a lot of people hold themselves back from that state, because maybe they think, oh, it’s so silly, it’s childish, or, or maybe they’re afraid of being vulnerable, but yeah, yeah, actually, before we dive into that aspect, because I think we can totally dive into that more, I actually want to ask you, when you began to follow the path of the artist,

Todd Williams: 6:25

so you know, I got my BFA at the Artist In Kansas City, and then I ended up getting an internship with Hallmark Cards my senior year, and so that last semester it was really the first time, really, you know, at an early age I actually had some money, I was like, and so for an artist, you know, when you, when you have the dream, become an artist, and for me that dream started really early, and we can kind of get into that later, but I knew that it’s not about getting rich, you know, it’s not, it’s not the occupation that necessarily even your parents want you to become, because I remember some stories I can tell you here a bit later about my dad and sitting down with my art professor from high school, and you know, it’s like, what, you know, he wants to be an artist, and so anyway, it all worked out well, and I am very thankful for that, but it’s tough, so when I, after I, upon graduating, and had some experience at Hallmark. I kind of sent my book out and ended up getting hired from Dayspring Cards, and then I worked for them for 10 years, and they, while I was working for them, they actually became a subsidiary of Hallmark, so I ended up working for Hallmark again, and under that umbrella. So it was really fun. It was great for me to grow. It was a great time to really find my own voice, and kind of, you know, just who, what I wanted to say and speak through my paintings, because I really didn’t know. And as an artist for Hallmark and Dayspring, I kind of had to be a jack of all trades, right? I had a, you know, like, say there was a sentiment editorial written for Mother’s Day, and they would go, ‘Hey, we want you to do a painting of a woman in the garden, you know, you know, tending to her flowers, and we want you to paint it in like a Monet impressionistic style, so that would be the, you know, the direction they gave me, so that was great. I enjoyed that, but then again, it just wasn’t me exactly. And so, after 10 years with them, working full time, which was a huge blessing, I was able to step away from that and pursue fine art, and so I’ve been painting full time now for almost 25 years. At one point in my career, I had seven galleries coast to coast, all the way from Seattle, Washington to Martha’s Vineyard, so it was, it was, you know, a lot of work, but I was just really prolific. I worked really hard providing all those galleries with work, and you know, if the piece doesn’t sell there, you send it somewhere else, and voila, it somehow sells. So, sometimes there’s no rhyme or reason to that, but so yeah, after almost 25 years it’s been great. I mean, I’ve had a lot of financial success, you know, some years are always better than others, but you know. It’s I didn’t, you know, getting back to the main point was I didn’t become an artist because of the money, I became an artist because I really felt like God had given me a gift and I needed to use that to my fullest potential, so

Laura Arango Baier: 10:18

yeah, yeah, and you certainly have, and consider you had seven galleries, that’s a lot, that’s a lot of work. Oh my gosh, insane. But yeah, and actually I do want to go back into the voice aspect, and that aspect that we were just talking about, you know, that childlike sort of flow approach to painting, because I find that it’s very natural for an artistic voice to progress as the years go on. So, in your career, how has your artistic voice revealed itself as you’ve painted more and more, and how have you maybe found yourself allowing yourself to also step into that vulnerable childlike, I guess, identity while you paint?

Todd Williams: 11:15

Yeah, so kind of getting back to, you know, really like the science of painting, and some of those foundational truths, as I learned more in studying art, you know, with with other great professional artists through the years, because really, you know, when I was at the Art Institute, you know, they teach you composition, they teach you color theory, but they don’t really teach you necessarily some of the aspects that goes into, like, say, mixing paint, like, how do I actually mix that correct value and that correct color, and so as I began to learn more throughout my career and began to teach myself, I kind of broke it down into, you know, these different truths or disciplines. I had the privilege of studying with some great artists, like Obama, and CW Monday, Dan Gearhart. So, you know, you kind of get all this information, and then you kind of becomes a part of you, and then you kind of add your own little spin to it, but you know really that those aspects, or that language to creativity, and specifically painting is really the same sometimes Sometimes the words that we use are a little bit different, but there’s really not anything new under the sun, right? But it’s just really taking that information and letting it really become a revelation within yourself. And I remember being in my studio, painting, and then all of a sudden the light bulb comes on after you know miles and miles of canvas, oh, that’s what Avannis meant, or that’s what you know CW meant when he said that, and so then those things are instilled within you, they become a part of you, and then once you have that, it’s almost like you know Pablo Picasso, what he had spoken, you have to learn the rules before you can break them, and so once you have that left brain knowledge, then it helps, then what you said, that childlike, the right brain, then, or really the spirit of painting, just let, let that flow, and so even with mixing, like when I teach part of the things I teach is called the VCM, it’s the value color mixture, and so within a certain value plane, say like a sky or something, we’ll actually look for that correct value color mixture, and then we’ll bend it, you know, warmer on one side and cooler on the other, but it’s really the same value, and so within that you still have that clean value playing, you know, like Edgar Payne talks about the four value planes, so for me that’s where when I solve all the issues ahead of time it then allows me to then flow out and be more creative, more spontaneous, get into the paint more, get into the paint manipulation, because I’ve solved all the other issues and there’s so much to think about, right? When you’re actually in it, and it’s tough. It’s not easy. I remember Avantis Berberian saying one time to us, as I was in one of his workshops, he said, if you wanted to do something easy, you should have become a brain surgeon, I. Yeah, because the amount of focus that we need as artists, and sometimes it’s very isolated to a specific amount of time, it’s almost like brain surgery, you know, maybe it’s only for a few hours, but you have to be just so in tune to that process, you know, in that zone, you know, into that right brain, and so to me, if I can solve all the other issues ahead of time, it helps me not get out of that zone. If that makes sense,

Laura Arango Baier: 15:35

yeah, yeah, it’s a delicate balance, yeah, because sometimes you can. I don’t know if this has happened to you. It probably has, because it’s, you know, it’s very common, but like, you might start painting, and then you start overthinking, and you start overthinking. Oh, but this, this might not be right, but what about over here? But then there are other moments where it’s almost like it’s too quiet in your brain, and it’s just also not really going anywhere, so it’s like a like that sweet spot of like, okay, this is the knowledge base that I have, like you said, you have to have that knowledge base, and then okay, How do I temper my thoughts so that they’re not overwhelming and controlling the flow, but yeah, I think also it’s just sometimes it just some paintings just don’t work. I don’t know if that also happens to you, or it’s like it’s.. I’ve tried, it’s just not working. Do you ever feel that way?

Todd Williams: 16:32

Yeah, absolutely. And those are the times too, I can feel when I just get mentally and sometimes physically tired, and I now you know, at this stage of my career, I have gained the wisdom to go, you know, what it’s time to step away, you know, maybe for that whole day and come back fresh the next day, because part of the thing, too, as the author of your painting, you know, you’re you’re creating something, and you’re so attached to it, and I have to somehow be detached from it to see it again with fresh eyes, because you’ll fall in love with, like, one area of the painting, but if that area is not correct, if those values and shapes are not correct, then the rest of the painting is now fractured, right? So it really becomes problematic if you continue in that, say that day, or whatever, that you’re working, and so it’s, it’s challenging, you know. Every time that I go to paint again, I think all of us artists struggle with, oh my gosh, you know, is this going to turn out, and there is that a little bit of seed of doubt, but you have to just push through, right? And then once you push through, the confidence comes, and then you know you kind of get into that zone, right, into the spirit of painting. This is what I like to call it. So there is something kind of magical about it, and I think a lot of the success successful artists will tell you that sometimes the paintings will just paint themselves, like, like I’ll go back and I’ll look at some of my favorite paintings, and the ones that I like the most, that are most dear to my heart, you know, other artists will also connect with that piece, but then I noticed that the public, or those art collectors, those are the pieces that they just kind of pass by, and you know, and I’m like, oh my gosh, they, you know, and those, those pieces, though, I think become this like little gems, you know, and I look at them, and then I’ll have other artists, like recently I had a show at the Western Art Museum in Kerrville, Texas, and there was two pieces I had in the show, and thankfully they both sold, but one of them sold the opening night, and then the other one sold, you know, a week later, and there was one piece all the artists loved. They didn’t even mention the other one, right? And then all the public that came and spoke to me, they all loved the other painting, and I can share those images with you later. What’s called Ken Spirits, and the other one was called Dream Raven. They were both part of my kind of Native American series that I’m doing right now, but it was just a really interesting, you know, thing to reflect on because. Of you know, how the two minds think differently, you know, as us artists, we see things differently than someone who’s not an artist, right? So, anyway,

Laura Arango Baier: 20:16

yeah, that, you know, what, that is so true. I’ve had that happen to me too, where, like, I might make a painting, and, like, wow, this is actually kind of nice, and maybe my artist friends also agree, but then it doesn’t get any attention from non-artists, and I find that that’s also very true with musicians, where a musician’s favorite music is not necessarily a song that the public likes, or they might be like that’s okay, but it just, it’s, but then the musician obviously hears it and thinks, oh my gosh, the chord progressions here, and how they did this movement, and how they did that, you know, it’s yeah, we have a, I guess, as artists, we have like that attunement to the particulars of how something is composed, and like, ah, it’s yeah, it’s hard for an untrained eye, I guess, to catch that, yeah,

Todd Williams: 21:11

yeah, and some of those paintings too, I look back on, and I’m like, I don’t, I don’t even know how I painted it, like, how, how did I do that, and because there is a process that I go through and how I teach also is where you build up like that shape, right, you find and define that edge per se and then you destroy it and then you build it back up, and so it’s kind of a juxtaposition, where, and like James Turner, you know, and let’s see, I’m trying to think, anyway, we’ll come back to that, but it’s kind of like, you know, that openness, right, the kind of the abstractness that you find in some certain areas of a painting, and sometimes as artists we’re like, oh my gosh, how did he do that, and a lot of times that is just a process of like trying things, and then you don’t like it, and you scrape it out, and then you put something else down, and then you smear it around, or whatever, and then the next thing you know, you’re like, “Whoa, I like that, and so you leave it, and how, how, like years later, when you go back and look at that piece, I just don’t, you know, how did I come up with that? I don’t know, but I really love it, so it is part of that, you know, process. So,

Laura Arango Baier: 22:46

yeah, yeah, it’s a funny, happy accidents, and they’re really hard to replicate, for sure. But I wanted to ask you, do you mind elaborating a bit on the spirit of painting?

Todd Williams: 23:00

Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, my faith is important to me, and so when I step into the studio and begin that process, to me that’s a form of worship, you know, and so it’s, you know, there’s something about the very active painting, not always the end product, but just the journey to it, the actual process of creating that I believe is his healing, it has power, and it has the ability, you know, for, for us, just as human beings, you know, to help us be better balanced, really, you know, as human beings, and so sometimes my wife will tell me, man, you’re just so cranky, you need to get back in the studio, you know, and because you know you, you have to wear so many hats as an artist, and you’re doing all this, you’re, you know, doing all that, and you know, and so it’s just, and you forget, oh yeah, I should be in the studio painting, also, and sometimes that gets neglected, and so you know, my wife’s really good at, you know, what you need to get back in there, just, you know, paint, you know, and get alone to yourself, and then when I get into those moments, too, you know, where it’s just yourself, because you know painting is really an isolated, you know, situation, and that’s really good, and you know, sometimes too, you know, just going outdoors and painting in plein air, there’s something about that that I just feel more in tune to my own spirit, but then also the spirit of God, and just. Helps me be more grounded and kind of come back to that balance that I need desperately, and you know, in the world in which we are right now, there’s just so much negativity all the time that it becomes, you know, you have to just shut that off, right, and you have to kind of escape into your own world, and so that happens when, when you get into that painting, and you enter into that zone, and that right brain, to me, that’s when it really is about the spirit. So,

Laura Arango Baier: 25:41

yeah, yeah, I totally relate to that, because there’s a, you know, there’s so many aspects of painting that is very, it’s almost ritualistic, right, where you take your brushes, you take your paints, and it’s usually the same sort of steps, and it, I find that I also move towards my work a lot more differently when I treat it as more of a sacred space, and just, oh yeah, this is my easel, because it just makes it more special. It makes it gives it more of like a feeling of a spiritual feeling. So I totally relate with that, and it is, there’s.. it feels easier to get into that zone when you do treat the space in that sense as well, at least from my experience. So, I totally, totally agree with, with that. And it’s such a safe.. it’s a safe place, it’s sanctuary as well for artists, since we’re such sensitive people. It’s like, okay, no, I need to hide away for a bit, and you know, untangle all the knots in my head for minutes in my safe space, and then I’ll go back to society, you know.

Todd Williams: 26:51

Yeah, and it takes a while to kind of get into that, right? When you first enter into your studio and you start painting, and so you want to preserve that, you want to make sure nothing interferes with that, and so that’s why again it’s important to kind of try and solve all those issues, you know, more of the left brain thinking, get that out of the way, and so when you get in there, all you can just stay in that right brain the whole time, you know, and and then when you step out, you know, maybe that’s a good time to take a break, to you know, step away, go outside, go for a walk, you know, whatever it may be. I know a lot of times after I finish my paintings, it’s so important to see, like we were talking about, because of the author, you’re so connected to it to see it in a different aspect, right? You know, so you know, as artists, we’ll turn them upside down, we’ll get it through a mirror, we’ll get other people’s opinions, you know, people that we trust. I pop them in a frame, I’ll put them up on the wall, and so when I come in and have breakfast in the morning, and I’ve started on a new piece. I can kind of continue to look at the piece, I can squint at it, I can really just try and analyze it, you know, again with fresh eyes. Now I’ve stepped away from that specific painting, and I’ve moved on, but now I can see it later, you know, maybe it’s a week or two later before I have to send it out, so you know it’s always good. It’s hard for, for all of us artists, I think, you know, because we tend to kind of like procrastinate a little bit, that the deadline comes. Oh no, I got the show coming up, and you know, my painting is still wet,

Laura Arango Baier: 28:44

yeah. Yes, it’s so interesting. I feel like a lot of artists, we procrastinate, but it’s because we know how important it is, so we feel the pressure of, oh man, it’s got to be good, it’s got to be good. But then it turns out all right, you know? I don’t know, you just end up really, really tired, and then you have to recover for a few days, and that sucks, but yeah, yeah. And actually, I wanted to ask you, is there a question that you’re currently chasing in your work? Is there something that you’ve been recently searching for on your canvases?

Todd Williams: 29:20

Well, you know, I think a lot of artists, if they’re honest, they would probably tell you, you know, that there’s, there’s, there’s this, what would be the term, the correct, there’s this battle sometimes to me of like painting something that that I really am excited about, and then also painting something that will sell, and I noticed, and it wasn’t. Always this way, but here recently, like, so, so back in the day, let’s just say, hypothetically, okay, you know, back in the 90s, right, when I first really started painting, you know, as an illustrator, and then went professional in the early 2000s and I remember just talking to other artists and stuff like that. If you did a great painting, I mean, it was just like boom, boom, boom. I mean, you just selling paintings all over the place, and now it’s not so much about a great painting, it’s actually doing something that connects with the viewer, and so now the subject becomes just as important as the painting itself. Obviously, you know, as artists, you know one of my number one things is design, and I, if I, if I’m not happy with my composition or design, there’s no reason in painting it right, and whereas before I just like plop down and paint whatever’s in front of me, and really don’t give any concern to that, but now I really take my time to really make sure that that design is as powerful as possible, you know, based on the subject, you’re a little bit limited, but anyway, that’s to me always a challenge, you know, even at this stage of my career, and so I’ll have ideas, and then I’ll kind of live with them for a while, and then I’ll kind of tweak them a little bit, and you know, bend them here or there, and so there is that little bit of balance between my artistic, creative endeavors, and then also I need to make a living, and you know, paint something that will connect with people, so some artists will say, well, that’s just smart business, and then other artists will say, well, you’re selling out, so you know it’s there, is that challenge, and so for me, I still deal with that, I guess. When you ask that question, that’s kind of what kind of popped into my mind, so

Laura Arango Baier: 32:21

if you’ve been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly webinar, The FASO Show, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories, and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you’re a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn, and spark new ideas, and whether you’re stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don’t miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next FASO show webinar is coming up on the 21st of May with our special guest, Deborah Keirce. You can find the sign-up link in the show notes at BoldBrush. We inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. Boldbrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity, and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles, and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that Fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that’s B O L D B R U S H show.com The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now more than ever, it’s crucial to have a website when you’re an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, FASO.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that’s basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e-commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won’t get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step guides on what you should be doing today, right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So, if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, FASO.com forward slash podcast, that’s FASO.com forward slash podcast. It’s, you know, it’s fair, because I think that’s the, you know, the two wolves that we all have inside of us as artists, is the wolf that’s like, I just want to paint what I love, and that’s it, and even if it’s crazy, no one gets it, and then the other wolf that’s like, yeah, but like, we gotta sell stuff, because we need money, so we can’t really paint that really wacky thing that you’ve got on. Mind, unless you have some money already saved up, so you can do that, so it’s, yeah, it’s a bit of a balance, and I think that’s something we all have to deal with as artists, unless we’re unbelievably wealthy and not concerned with selling paintings at all, but we’re not, for the most part,

Todd Williams: 35:19

yeah, you know, you know, just to step back a little bit, you know, it really is a blessing, you know, to be able to say, hey, I can provide for myself and my family by creating artwork, and that alone is a blessing, right? I mean, so I’m thankful, I’m grateful for that. I really truly am. And so we, as artists, we just have to continue to have that thankful heart, you know? No matter what stage we’re at, and the key is always is perseverance, really. It’s not giving up, right, and so for the artists that are watching, you know, today this is that’s really the key. It’s it’s not anything other than just the miles and miles of canvas, the the success and the failures, and all those combine into knowledge, and so one of the things I teach when you approach a new painting is knowledge versus observation. You bring all that knowledge that you have, you know, all those failures, all those successes into your next piece, so that gives you that leg up on the next composition, on the next piece, and so you have to use that to your, your, you know, to your best ability to again solve all the issues, make it easy on yourself. A lot of times, too, when, when I teach workshops, I just got done teaching a workshop in Fredericksburg, and with the DK Fredericksburg art group there, and just a wonderful group of artists, and it’s, but the struggle is always a lot of times the same, as you know, set yourself up for success, you know, and because a lot of times what we do is we choose maybe not the right reference to use, or we choose not the right subject, and you know you need to keep things a little bit more simple in the beginning, so you can kind of build confidence in that, and so again, getting back to the four value planes, if you’re doing landscape painting, those are really important, just to keep those very simple, you know, within the values and those value plans, and then everything else will kind of fall into place, but anyway, this kind of ramble there for a second.

Laura Arango Baier: 37:56

Oh no, but it’s, it’s actually very relevant to my next question, which is perfect, which is actually, when was the turning point for you, where you realized you could make a living as an artist?

Todd Williams: 38:10

Okay, so I want to just share a little story with you, real quick. I ended up doing this entire series in my home state, Nebraska, called the Legacy Nebraska Collection, and this is this is one of the collector set books that I did, and you know we put this together, and so you know it has a really nice pearl encasement, and we had printed 1000 of those and they ended up all selling out, and so I ended up doing a second edition a few years ago, and then we kind of did a different cover on the book for that, but I mean that was really one of the highlights in my career, but what was kind of funny was my wife wrote the editorial bio for that in the introduction of the book, and we went back to my third grade teacher and interviewed her, because it was really back then my mom had got me this set of colored pencils, and I was kind of just taking them, and I had a poster of a tiger on my wall, and I was like, “wow, and so I sat down, and I had this large piece of cardboard, and I did this drawing of a tiger, and colored it in, you know, with all its stripes and stuff, and as I was doing it, and I was laying on the floor, my mom came by, and she’s like, “Wow, you should take that in the show and tell, that’s really good. And I’m like, “What, really? And so the next day was Friday, and I don’t know if you remember, we used to have show and tell on Fridays, and so I brought that in and showed it to my class and showed it to my teacher. It and they just went on and on about it and raved about it and I remember walking home that day and I was carrying this large piece of cardboard and it was like as big as me really and with the Nebraska wind and on the plains I mean I was like whoa then started like coming away from me and but I just remember walking home that day, and I was like, man, I, I really want to be an artist when I grow up, you know, and I almost like, in my heart, I was just like praying to God, and I was like, God, I would, I just would love to be an artist when I grow up, and so when we were doing this bio for the book, we reached out to my third grade teacher, mrs. Hauserman, and she said, “Todd, I remember that day, and you know, of course, this is whatever decades later, right? And she’s like, “I remember, and I looked, there was a.. I think it was a second or third floor was where, where we met, and, and I only lived a few blocks from there, and so I would walk, you know, back and forth to school, and she looked out the window, and she saw me walking home, and she said that she also prayed for me that day, and I was just like, what, and I just like, there was something that you know surpassed, you know, what we can see, right? And that just really touched me. And so, to me, that was that was really the point, and it’s really weird to say, you know, went all the way back to the third grade, but then that was instilled in me. Then later, when I was in high school, my art teacher there, David Jorgensen, he sat down with my parents, and he was like, you know, I was a senior in high school, parent-teacher’s conference, and he was like, I really think Todd should go on and study art, he really has a gift, and my mom was like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting, and my dad’s like, what really, and so he goes, yeah, he repeats himself again. My dad’s like,”What really? And so, anyway, I went on to study at the Central Community College in Columbus, Nebraska. They kind of baby stepped it a little bit, you know, right. And then I transferred to the Art Institute in Kansas City, and I, as I mentioned earlier, I then got my BFA and did an internship with Hallmark Cards, and then right out of graduating I ended up getting a full-time position with Day Spring Cards, and then we moved to Siloam Springs, Arkansas, me and my family, my daughter was a year and a half at the time, and so it was just such a, you know, great transition, you know, for me as an artist, and then after working for them for 10 years, I stepped away to pursue really my own voice, right, to really be professional fine artists, and but before I stepped away completely, and with the mentorship and influence from CW Mandi, he was helping me and looking at my work, and he said,”Todd, I really feel like you’re ready, and so it’s actually 1999 when I approached the Legacy Gallery in Scottsdale, I had won a scholarship to study at the Scottsdale Artist School, and while I was there, I mean, there’s just like a mecca of galleries, I thought, you know, here’s my chance to maybe get into a gallery, and not only did I get into Legacy Gallery, but I ended up getting into the Meyer Gallery in Santa Fe through my connections there, because they, at that time, they had a gallery in Scottsdale, so that really was really.. I remember we went back to the hotel, and my wife and I, and our daughter, and I gave them the good news that I actually got to, you know, top galleries in the United States, you know, here in one fell swoop, and we’re jumping up on the bed, you know, hey, holding hands, jumping up on the bed, and celebrating, and it was just, you know, a beautiful time, and so that to me was really, again, just a great stepping stone, because once, once I got into those two galleries, I continued to work full time. I went to my wife, I went to my family, and I said, you know, I really need to dedicate some time separate from 41 Working 40 hours a week, and so they allowed me every Saturday to get into the studio to produce paintings, you know, for those galleries, right. So once that started to really flow, I started to be able to provide for the galleries. I felt more confident than in stepping away, which was basically three years later. I mean, I love my job at Dayspring. It was so, so great, and I love all the people there, and so it was hard for me to step away, but once I did, that very first year I doubled my income. So, I mean, it’s just, you know, anyway, I feel like that that was a turning point, and then the second turning point was really in 2011 you know, we kind of went through the recession of 2007 2008 you know, there’s a little bit of hangover, and so a lot, some of my galleries were kind of slow, and you know, we weren’t selling a whole lot, and so I was going home to Nebraska for my mom’s birthday, which was in May, and this was 2011 and I had already done a series of paintings and had some solo exhibitions with my series from Vienna and Prague. This painting right here is the St. Charles Bridge from Prague, and then I ended up doing another because I was so successful, that was at the Meyer Gallery in Santa Fe. I did another series from Italy, and then I was like, okay, I love doing these series of paintings. How about I actually end up doing a series from my home state of Nebraska? And so that’s when this idea came to me in 2011 to kind of go into the different counties of Nebraska, and I started in my hometown of Central City, Nebraska, which was Mary County, and then I started with some of the surrounding counties in doing those, and I sat down with Michael Smith, he was the executive director of the State Historical Society of Nebraska, and this was 2012 and I was sharing him with my idea, my vision of doing this series of paintings, so he, he goes, Well, when do you expect to have all these paintings done? And I said, well, I’m going to give myself five years, so 2017 Well, that’s when he was like, oh my gosh, well, you know what 2017 is? And I said, no. He said, well, that’s Nebraska Sesquicentennial, and so I was like, okay, Susque, what, what’s that term, and ended up just everything kind of fell into place, he put me in charge, or in contact with the Nebraska 150 Commission, because that was Nebraska’s 100/50 statehood anniversary, and then later I was able to meet with the governor and the First Lady, and they were just like, we love what you’re doing, we want this to be a part of our celebration for Nebraska Sesquicentennial, and just everything kind of started to fall into place, and so they really selected me then to be the exclusive artist to represent the state of Nebraska, and that took five years of my life, and so in 2012 I went to all those galleries. At that time, I did have seven galleries that represented me nationally, and I had to say to them, I said, I have this unbelievable chance, this, you know, opportunity, you know, for myself as an artist, and just because of my love for my home state of Nebraska to do this, and they were all very much in favor of that, and he encouraged me and said yes, you know, we support you in this, go for it. And so, for me, as we traveled throughout the state, excuse me, Nebraska PBS station ended up doing a 60 minute documentary, also, and so they would travel around with us, and as we would go into the different counties, you know, meet with each county historical society, we’d also meet with some of the local historians, and so what I was trying to do was gather information to find out really. What would be the one thing if you had to just pick one thing to identify with that county within the state, and so that was hard at times, and, and very interesting, the whole business side of that, the sponsors, the logistics of that exhibition, because it ended up being 123 works of art. Well, what do I do with all those paintings? And then it was going to be a statewide traveling exhibition in 2017 you know, during the Susque Centennial celebration. So there was a lot of logistics things there. There’s things on the business side that you know we, I can probably talk about for hours about how that came about. But anyway,

Laura Arango Baier: 50:53

that sounds very stressful,

Todd Williams: 50:56

though. That’s a lot.

Laura Arango Baier: 50:57

Oh my gosh, yeah. Because it’s like it’s a beautiful idea, and it’s amazing also because it’s something I’ve been thinking about in the last few weeks, which is how there’s this thing that happens through an artist, an artist’s career, where, like, at the very beginning, you know, we reach out and find opportunities, but then there comes a point where we start making our own opportunities that makes sense, kind of like how you did, you’re like, oh, well, I should just paint my home state, because I mean, my paintings over there did great, so I want to, you know, do something for my home state, and then, bam, you get all of these, it’s like, it’s like opening Pandora’s box, except, of course, it has much better things in there, but it’s yeah, you just, you had your own, you know, you made your own opportunity by accident, and it really just comes from like that hit with inspiration, and then you just go for it, you just ask the right people about it, you start investigating, and suddenly you get a lot of people on board, and I think that’s a huge testament to the importance of following that instinct and following that inspiration, and just make your own opportunities, because, like, they’re not going to fall on your lap willy nilly, you know. We all hope, we all wish, but that doesn’t always happen like that.

Todd Williams: 52:13

Yes, that’s that’s really a good point. I’m glad you brought that up, because to me it was kind of a god thing, because I didn’t really plan for all that, right? I just kind of wanted, just from my own heart and passion. I just had always thought, wow, you know, I’ve done these series in Europe, but I would love to do a series in my home state, and then when that’s once that started, it kind of ended up into something even greater than I had originally purchased, and now, or it really thought of, but for me that really has then moved into, in a very natural way, my next series, because when I was in my home state of Nebraska, and learning some of the history, and going into the counties, I learned a lot more about the Native Americans. Right, I learned a lot more about their story, and how important it was to not only the state of Nebraska, but a lot of states, you know, within the United States of America. And so I just love that. I love some of the history, I loved learning more about it, and so that kind of wanted me to dive into it even more. And part of the Legacy of Nebraska series, I did do several Native American pieces to represent some of those counties, and so it’s really became a natural evolution to now do this next series, as which I’ve been currently working on since then, and so I wanted to kind of do just, you know, faces, you know, and I, I’ve always loved portraits, I love faces, but I never really tackled that very much, I always did. You know, in the beginning, you know, they, a lot of this, you know, if you go any type of any academic, you know, school, or you know, go over into Europe, you know, and and join in on some of those academic art schools or workshops, or whatever. They always tell you to start with the still life first, right? You’re dealing with one light, one light source, you know? You got your highlights, mid tones, you got your shadows, so it’s very simple, right? You know, keep everything as simple as possible. Then, as you can successfully accomplish that subject, you move to the landscape. Once you kind of then get that honed in, then you kind of move to the figure or portraits, right? And so, for me, I’ve always wanted. It to do more figurative work. I’ve always wanted to do more portrait work, and so that’s kind of what that led into with my current series within more of the Western genre, and specifically some of the Native American subject matter.

Laura Arango Baier: 55:19

Awesome. Yeah, and that’s.. I feel like painting is.. I like to say it’s a gift that keeps on giving, where there are endless things to learn, just endless.. you think you.. if you think you’ve learned it all, you.. you’re wrong, because the more you.. you’ve.. you paint, the more you realize there’s so much more to know, and it’s a lifetime or more of learning, and it’s.. it can be very daunting, but I think that’s great. I love those portraits, the ones with the red background, or the.. it’s.. they’re so.. yeah.. or the blue background. It’s very beautiful, because there’s a starkness to them and an expressiveness at the same time, or they’re very. like their presence, you know,

Todd Williams: 56:03

yes, and it, you know, to me too, as an artist, you want to do something that stands out a little bit, you, you want to be unique, but it’s hard to be unique when everything’s already been done, right? So you know, but you kind of keep trying, you know? You just, you have to just keep trying, and I know the most successful artists, like a lot of galleries that you know, directors and people I used to work with, gallery owners and things like that, they would say, you know, Todd, you just, you should just do one thing and just stick to that one thing and just do that one thing well, that way you can be known for that one thing, and I said, well, and it’s probably because of my illustration background, you know, too, it’s just painting multiple different things, and having to be like I said, a jack of all trades. I had a, I had a paint in acrylic, watercolor, Karen Doss crayons, you know, pastels. I mean, you know, we did silk painting, we did etchings, I mean, we did everything, you know, just whatever you can think about for two dimensional artwork, you know. I’ve done it, and you know, maybe I was kind of good at that, but I wasn’t great. And so, yeah, there is, there is that, there is that truth. If you just paint the same thing over and over and over and over again, you’re going to get really have a lot of knowledge for that subject, but it’s really, then I, that’s why I like to do things in a series, you know, like I’ll do a series, and then once I feel like that series has kind of reached its, you know, moment in time, then I’ll kind of move on to something else, and maybe it’s a slight, slight tweak here and there, but, but I do notice that I do notice that within the commercial realm that the most successful artists will pretty much paint the same painting over and over again, but they just change the composition, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the same subject matter, I guess, is what I’m trying to say, and not that there’s anything wrong with that, you know, because there is the business side of things, but for me, I do want to challenge myself, especially at those times where I’m feeling kind of blase about things, like, okay, well, what am I going to do next, I really want to challenge myself to try, and you know, not necessarily reinvent myself, but just create something that maybe that I don’t see out there right now. So,

Laura Arango Baier: 58:54

yeah, yeah, and I like, we mentioned earlier, it’s those two wolves, there’s the one that’s like, I want to try all of these new paintings and new things, and then the the other wolf, it’s like, well, but galleries want you to create a product that they can rely on, because they’re a business, and you’re like, yeah, I know, I totally understand that, I think that’s what we all kind of have to face at some point, because we’re not, we’re not stagnant creatures, right? We’re not gonna, I mean, sure, maybe someone out there is blessed enough to really want to paint the exact same thing forever, but I, I highly doubt that, because I feel like, as humans, you know, you evolve, we change, we age, we experience new things. It’s impossible to always paint the same thing forever, just because of that, you know. We’re always going to evolve, we’re always going to change, and therefore our work is naturally going to do the same as well. So, I think it’s, it’s a little bit funny, because the. Salaries, and you know, buyers, they want something that’s exact, something that’s always going to be the same, something that’s always reliable, and, like, yes, we can rely that this artist always paints these trees really well with the sunset, but then, of course, that artist might be like a little bit tired of the trees with the sunset, because I feel like I’ve already, you know, done it a lot of times, so yeah, I think that’s one of those hard parts of like trying to step outside of that gallery’s comfort zone and have that conversation with them about, well, I want to explore this direction a bit, and coming to, you know, some sort of compromise about it as well,

Todd Williams: 1:00:43

and I think if, if you know, if I’m, if I’m honest, and if you talk to other professional artists and they’re honest, they’ll tell you that we go through seasons right within our career, and sometimes it is important to build those relationships and kind of paint what they want, right, and so you obviously need to make money, you need to be successful, you need to provide for yourself, and you know, provide for your family, and and so there there are those decisions that you know during that season of life that it’s it’s important that you probably, you know, choose those wisely, but then later, you know, you’ll go through other seasons and stuff like that, where you know there’s more important things than money, you know, and what are we going to do, like, like, I, I’m by far not rich or anything, but I make a good living, you know. I’m able to provide for my family, you know. I have a good home. How much money do I really need to be happy? And what, what is more important, you know? And so there’s for, for me, it’s the difference between striving and being led, and so I always just kind of really want to not strive in what I’m doing, but be led in what I’m doing, you know, and again, that just comes from, you know really seeking right, you know what, what seeking wisdom for really what what is the proper direction for your career, and each person is going to be in a different season, and so it’s always good to you know make those decisions and have that wisdom accordingly to what season you’re in.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:46

Yeah, yeah, and I love that, because that segues perfectly into my next question, which is, How has your definition of success evolved as your career has progressed?

Todd Williams: 1:03:00

Yeah, that’s, you know, answered that, I guess, in some ways is, you know, as you know, again, I’ve been paying out professionally now on my own for 25 years, I guess you could say, even those 10 years was still, I was still a professional artist, even though I was working for a company, you know, like Hallmark and Dayspring, but yeah, it really.. when I did that Legacy Nebraska series, to that entire collection of work, I loved it. I mean, it was so great. I mean, I started it, you know, when I was in my 40s, and then when I ended it, I was 50, and I was like, what happened to my 40s? But you know, I love painting so much, you know, and I like, I was telling you about the seven galleries, and I would get into the studio and my wife would come in and hey, you gotta eat, you need to eat supper. Oh yeah, I guess I should eat. Okay, and then she’d go, you know, it’s like midnight, I’m going to bed, you should probably come to bed. I’m like, well, I’m just going to paint for a couple more hours, and then the next thing I know, the sun’s coming up, I mean, this, this would literally happen to me, and I’m like, wow, but you know, you just get into it, I have, you know, just have so much, so much passion, and so much love for it, the time just flies by, and I don’t feel tired all the time, but now I’ve done that kind of caught up with me a little bit, and I had some shoulder issues, actually in both shoulders, and and so I had to start listening to my body a little bit more, and so now I’ll paint, and then maybe the next. Day, I won’t paint, I’ll kind of give my body a little bit of break, you know, not that I have to, but I’m just trying to be smart about it. And I avoided surgery, I didn’t have to have surgery, like I talked to some of my other peers and stuff, and they’ve had, excuse me, shoulder surgeries, and you know, other things have happened, you know, throughout their career and stuff like that, and I’ve always been careful. I don’t like to take medication, I like to be really natural, and you know, everything I take or what I put in my body, and so just to me now at this point my career, my health is really important to me, and so my art is still really important, but I have to listen and have wisdom about that, and then also then when it comes to the finances, you know, we’re at a point now where you know we’re more secure in our finances, I guess you could use the term I’m not as hungry as I was when I was younger, and that hunger can be great, that can help you know feed you and your success, but yeah, so that has changed for me, and I don’t produce as many paintings, you know, every year like I used to, but that’s okay, you know, I’m okay with that, and I’m very selective now on what I choose to do, like the different shows I’m in, the different galleries I’m in, you know, all those things, there’s so many opportunities for artists out there, which is great. I think there’s no better time to be alive and be an artist than now, because there’s more people that have knowledge of the arts, there’s more art appreciation, there’s so many great things that are going for us right now as artists, and there might be a multitude of more artists out there, you know, producing and wanting to become artists, but that’s great, I embrace that, there’s enough room for all of us to be successful, there really is, so it shouldn’t be a competition, but for me, like, I have more contentment in my heart to just live in the moment, and I think in one of our earlier discussions, my, my daughter Jessica has been able to help me, and it’s taken a while, but to set, sit back, relax, you know, and enjoy the moment that we have, because I think sometimes I’ve always been this person that I’m always doing this, so I can then attain that later, and I miss out on this, the moment that I have right now, and when I did the Legacy Nebraska collection, that did help me, though. It helped me, you know, when I stepped away from the galleries, and I began to just kind of travel throughout my home state. I did really enjoy that process, and it’s really about those relationships that I built as I look back now. I think those relationships were more important to me than even the work that was accomplished, and so I always, you know, if I have an opportunity, I always like to tell people that art, when you’re actually painting, it’s all about relationships, because you have to relate that one value next to the other value, you know, your darkest dark, your lightest light, that edge, you know how sharp or hard is that edge compared to this soft or even lost edge, here, you know, how what’s the highest chroma in your painting, and where should you place that, and then being selective on that, you know, because if you have so much chroma everywhere, it’s kind of chaos, right? And so something needs to kind of play the lead, you know, I want my paintings to be poetic and have that great power and centrality of focus within it, and so you have to use much reserve, but for me that came really from just, you know, stepping back, you know, and really analyzing things, you know, thinking more and painting less, and try and live in the moment and enjoy the moment, because before you know it, you know it’s gone, and so, but where I wanted to go with the relationships was there. Are only really two things that have eternal value in my mind, is our relationship with God and our relationship with each other. Most relationships will continue and have eternal value, and the things, these other things, you know, they are what they are, but just enjoy the process, you know, enjoy life now, where it’s at, and that, that would be the best advice I could give, you know, any, any artist listening today, it’s just enjoy where you’re at, and, and it’ll come, you know, keep working hard, keep persevering, don’t give up because you’ve been given that gift for a reason, so keep going, you got this, you know,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:10:54

bravo. Yes, yes, I like to say that the journey is the destination, yeah, because it, it really, like, you know, when you start living in a moment, like you’re saying, it really makes you.. I don’t know, it feels like you relish it more. There’s, there’s more feeling in it, and sometimes, you know, you can look at a painting you did and look at a certain spot and be like, I remember exactly how I felt when I painted that spot, or what I was listening to, or, you know, or the conversation I had with So and So at that moment, and you start, you know, kind of embedding your work with your memories and the moments that you felt at that time, which is really beautiful too.

Todd Williams: 1:11:35

Yeah, that’s so true. I remember some of my trips, like, as you were talking, or reminded me of when I took a trip to Martha’s Vineyard, and I had a gallery there, and I was painting, and like when I got back home, and I had those plein air paintings, like those were just so precious to me, because each one held a memory, and so I ended up doing like just larger studio paintings based on my plain error studies, so I could keep those, like, and I still have those, you know, for my own personal collection, and CW Monday told me one time, too, like, even with, you know, you see my some of my European collection behind me, this is part of that, some of those solo exhibitions that I had at the Meyer Gallery, and I was just like, he was just like, you know, after all those series of pieces that you do, hold back a couple paintings, you know, keep some for yourself, you know, because that’s your maybe that’s your retirement, you know, maybe that’s a painting later, you know, right now it’ll sell for 10,020 years from now it’ll sell for 50,000 you know, you know that’s our hope, but yeah, I like to hang on to some of my paintings for my personal collection, because they do mean so much to me, and you’re right, it’s attachment to that moment in time,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:59

yeah, that’s that’s very smart, and also very, yeah, that’s I should start doing that too. Just start keeping some of my better pieces, and once I have like a good breadth of them,

Todd Williams: 1:13:13

don’t have to sell them all.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:15

Yeah, that is, that’s a good point. I think, of course, at first, when you’re early career, it’s harder to have that, just because I feel like when you’re starting out, it’s a lot harder to get like really, really, really good paintings, of course, and then as you start building that up, then it gets easier, but yeah, yeah, and then speaking also of exhibitions and shows and workshops, do you have any shows, anything coming up that you’d like to tell us about?

Todd Williams: 1:13:43

Oh, yeah. Well, I actually will be teaching with the Indiana Heritage Arts Group in Nashville, Indiana, and that’s part of the Brown County Art Gallery, also, and they’re celebrating their anniversary, and I was really honored, because I don’t know if you know much about the Brown County Art Group, but they had basically a colonization that was taking place there at the turn of the century, and you should, should Google that, Brown County artists, and similar to what was going on in Taos, right, you know, a lot of people are familiar with the Taos artist colonization in the early 1900s but the same thing was going on in this little town of Nashville, Indiana, which they call Brown County, and anyway, they asked me to come and teach a workshop there to their members, and so I’ll be doing that here later on this month, in May, and then I’ll be going back to my home state of Nebraska to Central City and teaching a workshop there in with the. Barrett County Museum, and last year was the first year that I did that, and they weren’t actually officially open, but they’re actually open now. It’s a brand new facility that they were able to get funding for, and so for me to go back to my hometown, you know, it’s just really great, and you know, my mom and dad still live there. My wife’s mom still lives there. You know, we have siblings that live there, and so that workshop is going to be june 29 30th, and july 1. It’s a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, kind of leading up to the Fourth of July weekend, so all that information is on my website, Todd Williams Fine art.com You can kind of go under the info. There’ll be like a workshop section specifically for that. As far as shows go, you know, I don’t really have.. we just got done with the Western Art Museum with the Roundup, which is an annual show that I do every year, and then I’ll be doing a four-person show with them in 2028 and that’ll be in September of 2028 and so that’s, you know, some pieces that I’m working on now, and kind of setting aside the Settlers West Gallery kind of represents me, I’ve been a part of their miniature show, and last year I was part of their, their fall show that they do, and that’s in Tucson, Arizona, and the other thing is I am the executive director of a nonprofit art group here in Northwest Arkansas, and we, about three years ago we started a process where we went into some of the state and national parks, and we held plain air events, and so at those plain air events we would give out cash awards, you know, we’d have prizes, merchandise awards, they would paint for, you know, two or three days, and then we’d have like an exhibition, and then award ceremony. So we did that at seven different locations throughout the state of Arkansas. And then this year, in 2026 in January, that body of work, it’s a 50 works of art with 25 artists, it has their plein air painting. They selected one of the plein air paintings from one of the parks, and then as a study, and then they also then a did a studio painting based on that smaller plein air study. So it’s kind of like a fill to finish exhibition where viewers can come in and see that process of the artists that kind of go through, and then that’ll be traveling throughout the entire state of Arkansas for 2026 and 2027 So this is kind of the book that we put together. Also, it’s a celebration of nature and art, painting the art itself parks and Governor Huckabee Sanders, she wrote a really nice two-paragraph quote for us for the exhibition, and then Shay Lewis, who’s the executive director of the parks department and the secretary, he also wrote the forward for a book, and we kind of used some of those quotes, you know, in the exhibition, and we have that show opening up, and it’s called Arts on Main, it’s a museum in Van Buren, Arkansas, and we have an opening reception on that on may 15, but you could go to that website if you’re interested, it’s Heart of America artist.com and that’s plural artist.com so Heart of America, so

Laura Arango Baier: 1:19:14

yeah,

Todd Williams: 1:19:14

a lot of stuff going on, so it keeps me busy,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:19:17

yeah, yeah, and I’ll include all of the links in the show notes as well, so if anyone’s interested, they can just go to the show notes and find the links there. But yeah, thank you so much, Todd, for the conversation and for the inspiration. And yeah, it’s.. it’s.. I have a lot of notes now.

Todd Williams: 1:19:38

Thank you, Laura. I appreciate it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:19:40

Of course, thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.

Some artists wait for the right school, the right mentor, the right gallery, or the right moment.

Tanner Steed started with what he had.

When formal atelier training was not available, he studied the curriculums of the schools he admired, bought the books and casts, copied masterworks, practiced from life, and built his own path one disciplined step at a time.

In our conversation with Tanner Steed on the FASO Podcast, he shared how persistence, self-directed training, community, and a commitment to mastery helped him become a full-time artist.

We felt that pulling out these lessons in a more organized, and shorter, format would be useful to our subscribers. So, our team worked with ChatGPT to get these organized this newsletter and then edited and enhanced the result. Please let us know in the comments if you like or dislike such a use of AI.

Here are ten lessons from Tanner’s story:

1. You do not need permission to begin

Tanner did not wait for perfect circumstances. He asked: What can I do from where I am?

That question is powerful. You may not have the ideal teacher, school, studio, or community yet. But you can still draw. You can still paint. You can still study. And, you can still improve.

The artist’s path begins when you start walking.

2. Treat art like a skill

Tanner studied human development and education before becoming a full-time painter.

That background taught him that art develops like other skills: through repetition, feedback, practice, and time.

Talent may give an artist a beginning. But practice gives an artist a future.

3. Build your own atelier

Tanner wanted classical training, but life circumstances made formal study difficult. So he built his own version.

He studied atelier methods, copied masterworks, practiced from casts, worked from life, and used every resource he could find.

Artists may not always get the exact training path they want. But they can still take responsibility for their education.

4. Let fear point you toward growth

When Tanner first saw Daniel Sprick’s work, he said it terrified him.

Not because it was dark or frightening, but because it revealed a level of mastery he could not yet understand.

Instead of turning away, Tanner moved toward it.

Sometimes the work that intimidates you is showing you the next mountain you need to climb.

5. Be persistent enough to be remembered

Tanner reached out to Daniel Sprick. He did not get a response.

So, he kept working. And he reached out again.

Eventually, Sprick invited him to his studio. That meeting became a mentorship, then a friendship, and eventually a place inside a real artistic community.

The lesson is simple: respectful persistence matters and hard work opens doors.

6. Paint from your life

Tanner emphasized painting from lived experience. He paints places he has traveled, things he has seen, and subjects that have actually entered his life. But he does not simply copy them. He heightens them. He tries to cast them into mystery.

An artist is not a camera. An artist reveals a relationship with the world.

This is what Clint means when he says, “A painter shows me what he painted but an artist shows me why.”

7. Start over and over again

One of Tanner’s best practical tips is to practice starts.

The beginning of a painting matters. Composition, value design, light and dark shapes, and the first arrangement often determine whether a painting has strength.

If the beginning is weak, rendering may not save it.

So Tanner starts again and again, exploring different compositions and different possibilities before becoming too attached.

A strong painting often begins as a strong design. This applies to many art forms. Writers also often tear up beginnings and start again. A great work of art often starts by finding the better story to tell.

8. Do not chase the ideal collector too early

When asked about finding an ideal collector, Tanner gave a refreshing answer: Just paint what you love.

If you love flowers, paint flowers. If you love landscapes, paint landscapes. If you love mushrooms, paint mushrooms.

There is room in the world for sincere work.

Collectors are not only buying subject matter. They are buying conviction.

9. Begin with the people who already support you

Tanner’s first collectors were family, friends, family friends, and early supporters. He hosted small shows in homes, invited people into the experience, and built relationships from there.

There is no shame in starting close to home. A collector base often begins with the people who already want to see you succeed.

Word of mouth is your greatest marketing, and a reputation is built one human interaction at a time.

10. Build more than one leg under the table

Tanner sells through galleries, direct collector relationships, his website, teaching, workshops, studio events, and educational content. That matters.

A sustainable art career is rarely built on one gallery, one platform, one show, or one lucky break.

It is built through several connected paths that support the artist over time.

The deeper lesson: become the last one standing

Near the end of the interview, Tanner said something that will shock most artists:

He believes it is actually easy to make it as an artist if you are willing to put in the work and truly believe it is possible.

The harder goal is mastery. The harder goal is becoming good enough to stand in conversation with the artists you most admire. This is the deepest goal. Mastery before marketing. Or more correctly, mastery is the best marketing.

You must cultivate, above all, the desire to make something worthy. Clint discussed this in his article The Heart of an Amateur.

Tanner’s story is a reminder that the artist who succeeds is not always the one with the most access, the best school, or the perfect opportunity. Often, it is simply the artist who keeps going.

The one who studies. The one who starts again. The one who reaches out. The one who paints what he loves. The one who refuses to wait for permission.

The one who decides to become the last one standing.

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PS — OUR SPRING SALE ENDS MONDAY JUNE 15th.

We know setting up or switching websites is a pain. But, in this day and age, you need your own home base.

And you need it to be with a company who cares about human artists. A company with actual artists who support you and with whom you can talk. A company that actually promotes their artists, as you can see that we do in this very newsletter. Frankly, that company is us, FASO. We stand up For Artful Souls Online.

A great website, contrary to what big tech says, is more important than ever.

So to make it easier for you, we’ve put together a special spring deal where you’ll get your first year on our platform for only $150. That’s a 52% savings off the normal price of $312/year. Think of it as us paying you $162 to move your website to a place that actually promotes human creativity. Just sign up for a trial account by clicking the button below and be sure to activate your account within the first 15 days of your trial.

Please take this opportunity to move away from platforms that use your hard work as “content” to serve hostile algorithms while they callously steal your artwork to train their AI systems. We are here, ready and waiting to help you regain your sovereignty. Please join us and thousands of other sovereign artists in this movement.

Get Started with FASO for Free

Our use of AI in this article: Some of you may bristle at our use of AI for this, so we’d like to explain: Our beef with AI is primarily when it is used in a way that reduces opportunities for artists. Our goal, in the places we do utilize AI, is to use it in a way that supports human artists.

For example, at FASO, we do not train AI on your artwork for the purposes of using it to generate alternative images. We do use AI to protect your artwork from scrapers (including other AI bots) and to detect and block spam. And we are exploring the use of AI in ways that send more art lovers and collectors to our customers.

As always, The FASO Way is an open forum, so we’d love to know what your opinion of such AI use is in the comments. And, please, as we always request, all comments must be dignified and respectful of us and of your fellow artist colleagues who may have differing points of view. We are in this together, so discussion, and even debate, is important. But hateful or threatening comments will be blocked.

One of the best things about our recent conversation on The FASO Show with Debra Keirce was that she said out loud what many artists quietly suspect:

There is no single right way to build an art career. There is only the art career that fits the actual artist who has to live it.

That matters, because many artists are quietly tormenting themselves by chasing someone else’s definition of success. One artist wants gallery representation. Another wants direct sales. Another wants to teach. Another wants museum recognition. Another simply wants art to remain a joyful part of retirement.

Those are not the same goals.

So why would they require the same marketing plan?

This episode was so good, our team asked ChatGPT to pull out the most important points. We felt that pulling out these nine lessons in a more organized, and shorter, format would be useful to our subscribers. Our team worked with ChatGPT to get these points organized in the clearest format that we could. And then we went through and edited them for presentation and clarity.

Some of you may bristle at our use of AI for this, so we’d like to explain: Our beef with AI is primarily when it is used in a way that reduces opportunities for artists. Our goal, in the places we do utilize AI, is to use it in a way that supports human artists.

For example, at FASO, we do not train AI on your artwork for the purposes of using it to generate alternative images. We do use AI to protect your artwork from scrapers (including other AI bots). And we will use AI in ways that send more art lovers and collectors to our customers.

As always, The FASO Way is an open forum, so we’d love to know what your opinion of such AI use is in the comments. And, please, as we always request, all comments must be dignified and respectful of us and of your fellow artist colleagues who may have differing points of view. We are in this together, so discussion, and even debate, is important. But hateful or threatening comments will be blocked.

Here are ten truths from Debra’s conversation that every artist should consider:

1. Don’t take advice from people whose lives you don’t want

Before Debra takes advice from someone, she looks at the life their advice appears to have produced. Are they happy? Have they sold the kind of work they are teaching others to sell? Has their own marketing worked? Do they seem grounded?

The art world is full of advice. Some of it is useful. Some of it is wrong for you. Some of it is sold by people who are better at selling advice than selling art.

A sovereign artist does not reject help. But a sovereign artist discerns which voices deserve authority.

2. Your art career is a triangle

Debra described the artist’s life as a triangle of time, money, and quality.

And, unfortunately, you usually cannot maximize all three at once.

If you optimize for money, you may sacrifice time, freedom, or joy. If you optimize for quality, you may sacrifice short-term income. If you optimize for time, you may knowingly leave money on the table. This is simply facing reality.

With this in mind, the question is not simply, “What is the best way to market art?”

The better question is, “What is the best way for me to market my art in this season of my life?”

3. You cannot do everything at once

Debra did not begin her full-time art career immediately. She built an engineering career, raised children, stabilized her life, and came to art professionally later. You might say she optimized for money, first. Clint discusses this concept in his forthcoming book, The Sovereign Artist in the section on the importance of independence. You can’t be sovereign if you’re always desperate for work to sell.

Unfortunately, many artists feel guilty because they cannot do everything at once. They cannot raise children, pay bills, build skills, create a body of work, market consistently, attend every event, and post every day.

But sometimes the season you are in simply does not allow that. And that does not mean you are not an artist. It means you are living a human life.

Be graceful with yourself and remember that a small flame can be tended, even when it cannot yet become a bonfire.

4. The best marketing plan is one you can sustain

Debra knows there are ways she could make more money. She could teach more online. She could structure commissions more aggressively. She could narrow her work into one highly marketable lane.

But, and this is important, she has learned what she enjoys and what she does not.

That is wisdom, not laziness.

If you hate social media, then a plan that depends entirely on social media will probably fail. If you love teaching, then hosting workshops and demonstrations may be natural. If you love people, then in-person events may be your strength. If you love writing, then make email your marketing lynchpin.

The best marketing strategy is not the sprint that looks impressive for three weeks, it is the marathon you are still running three years from now.

5. Commissions are not just transactions

Debra spoke beautifully about the commissions she still accepts. She does not do a huge number of them. But the ones she does take often connect to grief, memory, celebration, or love.

Artists who do commissions should not merely say, “I accept commissions.” That diminishes what art is—sending love through form.

A better message is: “I help people preserve something they love.”

A portrait, a home, a pet, a landscape, a wedding, a family memory, a loved one who has passed — these things are not merely subjects. They are personal myths that make the story of one’s life sing.

That should change how artists talk about commissions on their websites.

6. Your legacy may already be showing itself

Debra said she did not think much about legacy earlier in her career. But looking back, she can see patterns: the Coast Guard collection, the Langham Hotel portraits, narrative realism, nostalgia, skill, memory, and works that make people smile.

That is often how legacy works.

It is not always invented in advance. Sometimes it is discovered by looking honestly at what has already emerged.

What themes keep returning in your work? What do people come to you for? What opportunities keep opening? What would you be proud to be remembered for?

You don’t make up your brand; your reputation, you discover it.

7. Define your non-negotiables

Debra returns again and again to skill development, networking, volunteerism, peer engagement, and showing up.

Every artist needs some version of this.

You don’t need a giant productivity system or a 47-step marketing plan. You just need a few non-negotiable practices that keep the career moving.

Keep making new work. Keep improving your skill. Keep your website current. Keep sharing. Keep building relationships. Keep following up. Keep putting yourself in rooms where art is being discussed, shown, taught, or collected.

An art career usually moves a nanometer at a time.

A conversation here. A newsletter there. A show where you gain three new collectors. A collector note that touches your heart. A website update with work you are proud of. A new painting that takes your vision to the next level.

Drip. Drip. Drip. A constant drip of water cuts through stone.

8. You may become excellent and still not become famous

Debra named a hard truth: you may become very skilled and still never become a superstar. The world does not distribute attention in proportion to skill. It does not distribute fame in proportion to effort. But that is only devastating if fame is the goal.

What is popular is not the same as what is good. In fact, they are often inversely proportional. True artists pursue the good. Sometimes they get popular.

For most artists, a better goal is resonance: to make work true enough, skillful enough, and visible enough that the right people; the people who care, can find it.

9. Envy is wasted motion

Debra was blunt about envy, victimhood, and artist circles that spiral into complaint. And she is right.

Envy does not make better work. It does not build better relationships. It does not help collectors find you. It does not improve your website, strengthen your skills, or deepen your vision.

It only burns energy that should have been used for growth.

The right artist community asks, “What can I do next?”

The wrong one keeps asking, “Why did they get what I deserved?”

10. Your real audience is gathered over time

A magazine feature, an award, or a viral post may create a spike in followers. But many of those people will fall away. They were interested in the event, not necessarily the artist. Your real audience is the group that remains.

They are the people who open the emails, visit the website, and come back to the booth. They ask about the new series. They remember a painting they saw three years ago. And, eventually, they become collectors, students, patrons, or friends. Clint likes to share an anecdote that one of his best collectors took over three years of follow ups to make the first purchase.

Your follower count is not your collectors. Your collectors are those who enter into a relationship with you.

And this is why artists need a home base: a website, an email list, a collector list, a body of work, a story, and a way for people to return. (We just happen to have what we consider the best home base for you at FASO. There are details at the end of this article if you’re looking for a great deal on a website).

The deeper lesson

Marketing, for the artist, is not the act of becoming more marketable. It is the act of making the true work findable by the people it was meant to reach.

Yes, the practical work matters, so keep your website, build the list, tell the story, attend the events, follow up, share the work, improve your craft, and please, please, make it easy for people to inquire, buy, commission, or learn more.

But underneath all of that is the real work: Know who you are. Know what you are building. Know what you are willing to sacrifice. And know what you are not willing to sacrifice.

No one else can build your art career for you.

And once you know what kind of art life you are trying to live, marketing becomes much clearer.

And clarity is where true sovereignty begins. So, as the inscription over the Oracle of Delphi implored: Know Thyself.

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PS — We know setting up or switching websites is a pain. But, in this day and age, you need your own home base.

And you need it to be with a company who cares about human artists. A company with actual artists who support you and with whom you can talk. A company that actually promotes their artists, as you can see that we do in this very newsletter. Frankly, that company is us, FASO. We stand up For Artful Souls Online.

A great website, contrary to what big tech says, is more important than ever.

So to make it easier for you, we’ve put together a special spring deal where you’ll get your first year on our platform for only $150. That’s a 52% savings off the normal price of $312/year. Think of it as us paying you $162 to move your website to a place that actually promotes human creativity. Just sign up for a trial account by clicking the button below and be sure to activate your account within the first 15 days of your trial.

Please take this opportunity to move away from platforms that use your hard work as “content” to serve hostile algorithms while they callously steal your artwork to train their AI systems. We are here, ready and waiting to help you regain your sovereignty. Please join us and thousands of other sovereign artists in this movement.

Get Started with FASO for Free

We do not use AI images with our writing. We prefer to feature and provide more exposure for human artists. If you know of a great piece of art we should consider, please leave a comment with a link to it. All featured images are properly attributed with backlinks to the artist’s website. You can help support human artists and push back against AI by liking or restacking this piece by clicking the “Like” icon ❤️, by clicking the “Restack” icon 🔁 (or by leaving a comment).