Creatively,

Clint Watson
FASOFounder & Creativity Fanatic

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Transcript:

Olya Konell 00:00

Welcome everybody to the Faso show. This is a video editorial series that we have running on our newsletter, which is hosted on Substack, The FASO Way. This is open to all artists, so if you enjoyed today’s session, share it with your friends, so they can join next time as well. Today, we have a very special guest, and I also have Angela Augusta with me. Our very special guest is Deborah Keirce. She is one of our contributing writers on the FASO Show. You’ve probably read a bunch of her articles; they’re very popular, even though she says she doesn’t feel like they are, but they really are. She’s an amazing writer, artist, speaker, just, you know, somebody who’s lived the artist life for a very long time, and we wanted to bring her on to do a talk, and I’m going to let her introduce her talk here in just a moment, but one last point I’d like to make before I hand the reins over. Is that this series is also brought to you by FASO.com. FASO is a website service for artists, so you can create your own website from start to finish, and it’s very plug and play for the artist that wants to spend a little bit more time painting and less time updating, so everything is designed for the artist. If you’d like to learn more, we’re going to share some links. If you’d like to start a free trial, just to look around without a credit card, you can just go in there and do that. And then if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask us or reach out. So without further ado, I’m going to go ahead and bring on Deborah. For everybody, say hello, and go ahead and tell us a little bit about you, and jump right in.

Debra Keirce 01:47

Thank you so much. Well, first, I’m just so honored to be here, and I was saying earlier, part of the FASO team, from day one, I’ve just loved the people that work at FASO. So I’m so honored to be here today to talk, and like, no pressure, right? Oh, yeah. You know, you just called me amazing, and now I have to live up to that, or not. Today’s topic is thoughts that are rarely said out loud. So, as she’s saying all those great things about me, I’m thinking of all the artists I know who are greater than I am on the on the continuum here of our art journey. So we are all somewhere on this journey, and I’m hoping that today the things that I say will resonate with wherever you are. So, without any further ado, this is going to be a frank discussion. I’m going to ruffle some feathers, I’m going to make some people bristle, probably about some things, but realizes coming from a place that’s my experience, my sharing, so whatever you’ve got to say, please don’t be shy, just hit us up with it. So, a segue into this, I have a biochemical engineering degree, so in 1983 the last century before they discovered the rest of the periodic table, I got a bachelor in science in engineering from the University of Michigan, chemical engineering bio option is what they called it. So here I am. No art degree. What do they call me? They call me a self-taught artist. I did not teach myself anything. I learned from people, lots and lots of people, right? So, and I’m learning from these, you guys, right now learning from these guys. So, while I’ve studied a lot, and I just finished the Ani Art curriculum, in fact, I’ve got some of my paintings back here that were my finals and practices during that curriculum, done by Anthony Whychulis, four year curriculum, I highly recommend it. Any art academies, I have no university art degree, so who am I to talk to you guys about art, right? And yet I feel like I’m very well educated, like I’m classically trained, like I’m not self-taught. For over 16 years, I’ve been doing this art thing professionally. Right, first 10 years of my career I didn’t really make any money at all. In fact, I worked as a crossing guard and as a dog walker, just to make sure that the money I was spending on supplies, I, you know, wasn’t taken from our family coffers. And then I made money, but oh my gosh, I don’t see a way to make as much money as I was making as a design engineer at Eli Lilly and Company. So, you know, no six figures are happening here. So, what am I going to do? They’re not happening soon anyway. And then I got to where I was making a decent amount of money, but now, gasp, I feel like I’m in a place where I want to do optimization of the things that are fun for me, that I really enjoy, and I don’t really want to optimize the money part anymore, you know? I mean, I feel like I can see ways that I could be very much more profitable than I am, and I’m not pursuing them. So each of these three different parts of my art career, I feel like I’ve not expected them to come about the way that they did, and probably you’re in one, or you’ve experienced one or more of them as well, and these are the things I think we never talk about, is there’s lots of different ways to do an art career, lots of things to prioritize, so my emphasis right now is having fun and having new experiences like this, so that’s where I’m at. Any, I don’t know, do you want me to stop at any like breaking points and say any questions? Anybody got any? I offend anyone at this point.

Olya Konell 05:37

No, I actually, I, I love, I love the message, and I want to let the audience know we will be having a whole Q and A session covering any and all of your questions, whether it be covering the talk or anything else. I forgot to mention that. So, as you think of your questions, drop them in the chat or put them in the Q and A box, because I’m gonna, we’re gonna feed them, we’re gonna pull them up, we’re all gonna discuss them, we’re all going to have a conversation about them together. So, do not hesitate to drop them in the chat, but go ahead, Deborah. Floor is all

Debra Keirce 06:08

okay. All right, then. Well, let me then start with the biggest thing that I’ve learned, but never shared, and this is like the things we don’t say in public, taking advice from people like me, or like anyone that you interact with, and you pay money to, in order to learn about marketing and sales, and how you should do your art stuff and your art career anymore. I research them, and personally, if they’re not happy people, I run away from them. If they’re teaching me how to sell more stuff, but they don’t have a solid sales record for selling that same stuff themselves, like if I’m there, they’re only, you know, if they’ve never sold art, but they’re telling me how to sell art, I run away. If they’re pontificating on marketing expertise and I don’t see any evidence that their own marketing has worked well for them, I run away. But here’s the thing that I wanted to share, is you can’t ever in this art world. I don’t think share who you run away from, like it’s.. I’ve learned, and it’s hard for someone who’s unfiltered, like me. Like, I had to go through and make sure that there are no swear words or trash talking in what I do every time I write something, right? So, for me, for someone like me who’s unfiltered, it’s hard to do this or understand why this is important sometimes, but you gotta be careful because we’re working in a very emotionally charged, passionate group of people. This art community is awesome, but they’re also very sensitive, and so, and they, when I say they include me, right? So be careful, because it’s going to bite you in the butt if you say who you run away for, and this includes, like, if someone comes to you with, you know, like a brush manufacturer, for instance, this happened to me, and they ask you for your opinion, and you, you think they want an honest opinion on how to improve their product, they don’t, like, just coach it and say, you know, oh, you know, I’m so hard on my brushes, and I always wear down the tips and everything, and instead of saying yours wore down just as fast as all the others, you know, say more tactful if you can, or, you know, like critiques, I always tell people I can’t tell you whether your art is good or bad, because I’m not in your head, I don’t know where you were going with this. What I can tell you is, if you put it on my easel, these are the things I would do to it. So, coach what you say and what you do, but be careful in the art world never to never to be in that position where you say something bad and it’s going to come back and bite you, because sometimes they’ll come back and I’ll hear stories about things that I said or did that, if I mean, I have no recall if I did, but I’m like, where’d that come from? You know, sometimes you’ll get it even when you’re not even asking for it, but be careful, all right. So now I’m going to be talking about all the bad stuff, right? So four biggest things that I always talk about, and some things I don’t say about them, that’s what I have next on my list here, and it’s all about the triangle. We all have limited resources. We have this triangle of cost, time, and quality, or cost, time, and skill management in the art world, is how I think of it. How are we going to make it so that this is in balance? Because if you optimize one point of that triangle just by the nature of that balance you’re going to have to sacrifice something in one or both of the other points, so I talk a lot about how do we do that and how do we evaluate things like time usage, like for me I have to keep my time allocated to work practices at a very sustainable level, and I have to balance my commitments, otherwise I’m going to wind up in a burnout situation, which I’ve never had, like these people who say they lost their creative spark. I wake up every day going, I get to come down here and do this, so I want to keep that going, and in order to do that, there have been times in my life when I don’t pursue my art and. And I personally could not raise my three kids, work a 60 hour week running project teams as a design engineer at Eli Lilly and Company, and grow my art skills all at the same time, but there are people who come to me in mentoring situations, or however they find me, and they’ll ask me, you know, why is the universe not allowing me to do it? I can’t make money, I can’t, you know, embark on my art career, and you know, maintain my relationships with family and friends. And my answer is, I couldn’t do it all at once either. And so there are whole years where all I did was just basically hobbyist art, where I was doing a commission here, there, you know, average probably over the years, one or two a month, and I mean, in the beginning, from the time I was 16 years old, I’ve been doing this. In the beginning, they were $25 commissions, so this wasn’t like a money making, even back then, venture for me. But you know, I always did something in the art world, and I honestly, this is where I start to ruffle feathers. I honestly do not have sympathy for people who complain that they can’t all do it all at once, because I don’t think that life offered me this luxury either, and I didn’t pursue my art career in earnest until 2010 when I was financially stable. My kids were all teenagers, and I could devote myself 24/7 to developing my art skills, and I chose 2010 because that’s when I got representation, so I started full time with everything, and just at that point, excuse me, said that I was going to be a full-time artist, but I sacrificed coming to the party early in 1979 when I graduated high school. I had all kinds of things going on, I even had a scholarship to an art school, blah blah blah, I was all set to go into the art world, then, and I made a change, a decision, and I feel like it was a sacrifice to go and do the engineering thing and make money first before I went into the art stuff, and I feel like it oftentimes gets downplayed that people that made decisions like this, like I know a lot of artists who are engineers or architects or whatever, and came to the party late, and you know it’s not looked upon as much of a sacrifice as people who were in poverty first and then scraped their way into the art world, but I don’t dismiss people who come to things later in life or to the art world later in life, because I feel like it was in fact sometimes I feel like I worked harder because I had to create first a very successful engineering degree or career, and then, you know, get into the art world and make that happen too. So, when people come to me complaining that they’ve been in the art business for two whole years and they’ve taken, you know, five different workshops from all different people that are all amazing, and they’re working so hard, and they’ve, you know, don’t have enough money to live on. I can’t relate to that, and I feel like it’s a hard business, and it quickly weeds those people out. So that’s something that I don’t say, but I feel very strongly oftentimes in so many situations where I get told things like, well, you’ve got a husband, so this wasn’t so hard for you, or, you know you’re older, so you’re wiser, so you know you know what you’re like. No, everybody, I think is somewhere on the journey, and we’ve all had our own struggles, and we’ve all had to work hard, and we need to just like realize that for everybody. So now, did half the people leave?

Angela Agosto 13:16

No.

Debra Keirce 13:17

Okay, then we’ll move on to number two, focusing on maximizing enjoyment, and for me this is so important for sustainability, because in order for me to be able to do this day after day after day after day, and I’m like crazy, um, OCD, sort of probably, even though it’s never been diagnosed, committed to this, I, I work 12 hours a day, seven days a week, I don’t know what day it is, most of the time doing my art thing, because I love it, and it’s what I’m passionate about. But in order for that to happen, I feel like I need to focus on, you know, greater fulfillment and decide what activities I want to do that bring me happiness anymore. I mean, some income streams are more consistent and more lucrative than others, but I’m maximizing the happiness in them. And what do I mean by that. Well, from my observation, the most certain and lucrative ways to make money as an artist are going to be your teaching and commissions, and for me, teaching, you know, you make more money with online workshops, you just do, and I praise the people who that works for, I personally don’t enjoy them. I don’t like having, do, and I’ve, I’ve tested, piloted this several times, but I don’t like people watching what I’m doing here on the screen. For one thing, I use my hands a lot, don’t I? But I don’t like them watching what I’m doing, and then I, in all honesty, can’t see, maybe it’s my old eyeballs or whatever, but I can’t see very well what they’re doing, and so I can’t customize, you know, what my advice, or what I want, would like them to try to do on their canvas, you know, from where I am on the other side of the screen, so I much prefer the in-person workshops where I can do that. But the most profitable way to do in-person workshops, and I did this for gosh, several years, I don’t know how many, five, six years, or something like that, where I had people coming into my home, and so I had weekly mentees, people that I would mentor here, I had my own workshops here, and then I hosted workshops for other artists here, many of whom are sponsored by FASO, it was wonderful. I got to know these people very well, got to know the students and everything, and people came in, and it was great until it wasn’t. I got to a place where I started calling them home invasions instead of workshops, and I’m like, let’s get ready for the next home invasion, and I’m thinking that can’t be good, and what it is when people come four or five, six times to your home. It’s wonderful, because you know, you get more and more friendly, but then when you go downstairs and your husband’s like, “Where’s the half and half? or you’re realizing that your art supplies are disappearing faster than usual, that kind of thing. It’s like, you want to, you want to be friendly, but for me, it kind of, it tests your boundaries, you know. And then Covid hit, and when Covid hit, I was like, we’re such a litigious society. I didn’t want the liability anymore, so I just stopped doing it. So now I teach at museums around the country several times each year, and it’s much less profitable. I’m paying for my own flights and stuff, and rental cars and things, and they take a cut. But I thoroughly enjoy those experiences, and I love going to new cities, and it’s fun to see my students year after year citing the things they’ve done that, you know, in between our sessions that have improved. So, for me, that works, even though I’m not maximizing the profit part of it. And another one is commissions. I’ve done commissions, like I said, you know, ever since I was a teenager, and I’ve explored along the way all different ways to optimize that part of the business, and I found that the most successful commission-based art careers are focused on one subject, and I did this for a while. I did, for a while, I did pet portraits, and for a while, I did portraits, for a while, I did post-humans, you know, working with funeral homes, portraits of loved ones, for a while, I did, you know, the wedding portraits, new houses with realtors, etc. and the thing is, is I didn’t - I wasn’t happy committing to just one subject and one style, and so for me, I didn’t want to do that. So now I do a few word of mouth source commissions, like eight to 12 each year. Usually, I never post them unless people ask me to, and I’m happy with that. I’m trying to build that up a little bit, so I’m doing a few things to, you know, make that a bigger part of my business, because it does make me so happy, because why I feel like I’m connecting with people on a more intimate level. There’s one that I just finished with a person who lost a loved one who passed, and so I’m actually part of their grieving process, or my painting is, and another person who was having a celebration, and I get to my painting is now part of that celebration, and so these are the ways that I kind of get my dopamine hips, hits is when my art goes out there and writes its own stories, and so nothing to do with maximizing profit in either of these, even though I know what I would need to do in order to make that happen, so that’s my number two, number three, embracing your legacy, and this is something that you know, maybe I’m not the only one, but I, until like five years ago, I didn’t even care about a legacy, I didn’t even think about a legacy, I didn’t even know I needed one or had one, or whatever, and I couldn’t have planned it, but if I died right in this moment, like just keeled over, you guys, I’ll be calling 911 and you know where I live, so nobody would come, and you listen to me die. What are they going to talk about? Well, they’re going to talk about the US, and you can ask AI if you don’t believe me, they’re going to talk about the US Coast Guard art program. I have 17 works right now in the government collection, and I’m the winner of the best in show George Gray Award for 2022 So, my body would be here, and they’d see the big plaque over there saying so, so that that would be my legacy. Also, the Boston Langham Hotel, they have eight of my 40 inch portraits in their fine dining room that they wanted them done in John Singleton Copley style compositions of Federal Reserve Bank presidents who worked in the building before it was a hotel, and so I’ve done narrative pieces on each of portraits on each of them, and then also I’ve got three original miniature paintings in their bar area. Both of these are in my wheelhouse. I’m so excited about them because the dining staff, they’ll talk to when people ask, you know, what’s with what’s with this dude, you know, that I’m meeting next to here, and they’ll, they’ll, they know the stories, and so my art is being talked about in this five-star luxury hotel, like, who knew, and both of these were not planned, they were surprise opportunities that the door opened and I walked through it, and it happened, but I feel like with the legacy now I’m thinking I lucked out because I got a good 1am. I okay with it? Like, I have to go back and think, okay, what am I going to do to not mess it up now in the future, right? Which is totally possible, but right now I’m focused on a Trump lawyer series of oil paint. And charcoal drawings, and I’m working to create only what I consider art award-worthy art pieces, and I mean, you might look at them and not think they’re worth any award, or whatever, but it doesn’t matter, it’s in my brain, they’re award-worthy, they’re the best that I can produce, and you know, for me, they’re themes of nostalgia and happy memories, like I no longer care if I’m perceived as corny or old-fashioned, like if I am, I am, that’s who I am, and I don’t feel the need to be trendy, like I’m not painting the banana with duct tape, I never did one of those, but you know, and I don’t want to be remembered, I really want to avoid the rabbit hole of being remembered for any of my political affiliations or opinions or anything that like that, especially living so close to DC, don’t want anything to do with that. So, for me, I want people to remember me, and to think, you know, all my interactions with Deborah. I walked away feeling so enriched, like that would make me happy. If they say, you know, she was a really skilled artist, and her work makes me smile when I see it. I won’t go back and haunt those people, I want my tombstone. If anyone makes a tombstone for me, I want it to read, ‘You’re welcome. Right, so this is this is what I’m going for. And it’s funny to me, because at the start of my career, I wasn’t even thinking about legacy, but now I am. So, but I got.. again, I’m not going to.. that’s not something I’m going to talk about in public, although I just did number four was I, you know, establishing non-negotiable practices. So, for me, these are the essential routines that you do, no matter where you are in your art journey. So, they’re like the overarching things, and mine are going to be different than yours, but for me it’s the skill development, you know, like I said, I just finished one curriculum, and I, you know, if I ever am in a place where I don’t feel like the next painting that I’m doing is going to be better than the one that just came off my easel, then just take my brushes away, because that’s what I like to do, so skill development, and then networking, including volunteerism, group organization, peer engagement, both online and in person, like there’s so many ways you can network, and I find I’m always thinking about it. And just a quick little side story, my husband is a comic nerd, comic book nerd, him and his friends, so he went with a friend a couple weeks ago, and they went down to Texas, flew Texas, and then they drove all the way up through all the states, all the way up to Maine, and then back down to Virginia, where we are. And when he got home, we got married in 84 however many years that is, you figured out. But I know this guy pretty well. So when we got home, I’m looking at him like, whoo, this is like, I want a pony kind of a moment, you know, so I just sort of casually mentioned, I’m like, oh, you have such stamina, you did all that driving, that must have been her off, yeah, you know, it’s too bad I don’t have that kind of stamina, because I’d really like to go to the American Artist Professional League opening, the Vision show up at the Carriage Barn Factory in Connecticut, but it’s six hours away, and four hours is my limit, and so, of course, he’s like, so he actually drove me up there the six hours, and then I went and did the opening, and he and networked with everybody, and you know, got to meet all these people who I think are amazing, who I’ve been interacting with online for years, and now I got to meet them in person, and got to see the show, and just had a great time, and he slept in the car, and then he didn’t even want to get a hotel. We just, he drove me right back, you know, here six hours that same day. So I’m like, yes, and now not everybody has a partner that can do that for them. I get it, but like any opportunity you see, if you can get that pony, go ahead, and you know, it could happen, because that, to me, that’s what networking is about, is just, you know, things that you like, yeah, that, that could happen, you know, in some out of the box kind of a way, and that’s the way I’ve been approaching it. Here’s the thing, though, that nobody talks about, like, recognize that you’re going to, if you do your, these non-negotiable things, whatever they are for you, you and you consistently do them. You’re going to develop marketable skills at some point, because you just are. You can’t not, I don’t think. And then acknowledge that at some point you’re going to be very skilled, but you will not be a superstar. And you might see the writing on the wall where you are never going to be a superstar, and some of us, I feel like I’m often I feel like I’m in that place right where I still have to do these non-negotiables, because you got to do them in order to be playing the game, and yet you know you can’t waste energy, and this is the crossroads people come to, I think you can’t waste energy on envy, like you’re you have to value personal growth over competition, and so I see it all the time where people get to that place and they get so frustrated because they’re working so hard and they’re so skilled and they’re doing everything right, you know? It must be someone else’s fault because they’re not getting this stardom or whatever they want and going viral. Yeah, and you know that’s where the reality, like, just of the universe, you know, comes at you, and I wind up finding that, and this is again, I’m gonna bristle some more of you people, like, you know, get ready for your feathers to be ruffled again. I have no respect for people who come to me, you know, with envy, rather I want to surround myself with people who are collaborators, so if you’re watching this and you’re one of my friends watching this, then obviously we probably talked about this before. You know, you’re a collaborative type of a person and not someone who is looking to compete with me. I also don’t want to be around people who envy what I achieve, because I am looking at all these people who have done so much more than I have, and I’m not, you know, begrudging them or being envious of them, or trying to figure out why did they get it and I didn’t get it, because that serves no purpose. So, I don’t want to be around people that play the victim, meaning their reasons that they don’t have what they want are due to external circumstances. I want to be around people that are in that situation, talking about what they can do to change things a little bit, and to move their needles forward, and you know the world doesn’t deliver accolades proportional to skills or to effort. So, when we come with complaints and we don’t come with solutions, I don’t feel like we’re adding anything positive at all to it. So, for me, I don’t care, and this is the bristling part, and I mean this out of a place of sincerity, but I don’t care how old you are, like I’m old, I’m going to be on Medicare next year, you know, I don’t care how handicapped you are, we all have handicaps and things that we’re dealing with, you know, you haven’t seen my medical records, that would make you probably cringe, you, you don’t know how you know how many people have been in situations where they were not financially stable. I didn’t grow up rich, so you have to be creative and find a solution. If you have a thought, my belief is that you can move with that thought, you can move your art career if you want to forward a nanometer, and then the next day or the next hour you move it forward another nanometer, another nanometer, and soon you get a millimeter. You might not get the yardstick, but you get the millimeter, you know. So that’s kind of where I am on all of that. And some people I think come from really crappy circumstances and still do really well. Artists that I know that have had this happen, Michael Jackson kinds of, you know, people, and you wonder if maybe they’re not doing so great because they’ve had to overcome those circumstances, and they’ve looked at them as, you know, challenges instead of, you know, something that’s going to bring them down. It’s like, how do I get through this? So, I feel like none of us have excuses. We all have incredible access to more knowledge, better supplies, more resources, and you know, more tools than Rembrandt or Leonardo da Vinci ever had, and we have longer life expectancies. So, life takes no prisoners, but all of us are living in luxury compared to those Golden Age masters that we all admire, or at least I do. That’s kind of how I’m thinking on that. So, there, take that, and then I have three checkups that I perform regularly that I think maybe you want to think about doing too. The first one, tenacity and confidence in your artistic path. Do you have it? Like, it’s so important, I think, to have persistence through challenges. Last person standing wins. Do you guys watch like Alone and Naked and Afraid and Survivor, those kinds of shows? I love that The Last Man Standing is going to be the one that’s most persistent, is going to be the winner. Oftentimes we get long and impressive resumes, most of us do, and eventually nobody cares, like even people ask me for them, when you apply for things, they’ll oftentimes come back to me and ask me a question. I’m like, it’s right in bold, right in the first paragraph of my resume, but okay, here’s the answer again. So I don’t even think when they ask for them, they look at them anymore, but I think you should look at your resume regularly, like you should notice all your accomplishments if you’re one of the last men standing people, and you’re tenacious, and you’re a serious artist. I did the math one time, and I think you’re one in like a whole football stadium full of people, one in maybe 100,000 artists who do this, what we do. And I think that if you’re tenacious, you absolutely should take pride in your persistence and in your accomplishments, and just because external validations are not obvious doesn’t mean they’re absent. So we all get heard more than we know. Like, I don’t know, probably anybody that’s on the chat right now, you know, you’re in places and you’re being judged for good or for bad by people out there that you’ve never even met. The majority of our followers are lurkers, and the way that the social algorithms work, a lot of times I’ll be commenting and liking and following on people for years, and then realize, oh, I’m not even an official follower, because they just give you what it is that they think you like, and you know they’re usually right. Yeah, so thinking about all that, give yourself a little pat on the back and check out, you know, all the good things that you’ve done lately. Be grateful. If you don’t mind, I’m gonna take a quick break here. Okay. The second check that I regularly do is a soul check, and what do I mean by that? I mean aligning my artistic plan with my core values, and I’m starting to articulate this one more and more lately. I think that whatever brings pride and growth into your life, it comes from this alignment, and what do I mean by that? Well, if your plan aligns with your deepest self, you can see what audience you’re attracting by doing it, and you have to work at attracting a core audience. I think through authenticity, and I know that the FASO marketing talks a lot about this too, but it’s like the build it and they’ll come. The people who love what you do, they’re going to follow, find you. So people follow you for lots of different reasons, but let’s just say you have a fancy, and I’ve had this happen to me, probably a few of you have as well, or you’ve had like more amazing things happen, but you get into a place like a fancy magazine feature, or some kind of a, you win a best in show, or you’re someplace up on a pedestal, and your followers, there’ll be a peak, and then they’ll promptly fall away, fall, fall away from you, and the ones who don’t relate to you, or they outgrow you, or they relate more to that magazine than they do to you, or you know, in some cases they only wanted something from you, and then they got it, or they didn’t get it, so then they’ll, their engagement will dwindle, and this is what we mean when we talk about how the number of followers means little. It’s all about the quality of your followers, and the same goes for sales and price points. So, wherever your price points are, you get dismissed by those who don’t value your art and artists at different price points from where you are. So, like, if you’re out there putting out the most beautiful $50 painted rocks in the world, you’re not going to be featured someplace that values someone who’s doing $100,000 western, you know, whatever, 10 foot paintings, right? So, in truth, they’re the marketers, they’re going for the buck, so they’re going for whatever they think that their people are interested in, and most of us, or a lot of us, like the person who does the $50 rocks, they do the best $50 rocks there are. I was in London, and I saw this guy painting little one inch bubblegum scenes on the London Bridge turns out he’s world famous. He’s been all kinds of talk shows.

Angela Agosto 32:47

Wow,

Debra Keirce 32:48

who knew, right? He’s the best bubblegum painter ever. So, most of us are successful, and we have longer resumes than the artists that are featured, and depending on who you, how you define your success and who you’re marketing to, you could be more successful than them too. So, you can’t align your goals with whoever it is that you’re seeing that’s being raised up in this marketing space that you want to be in, or it just doesn’t work. And I think that’s pretty important. Feel like I’m going to start to lose my voice here. If you’re putting yourself in front of your potential audience, they’re going to assemble however you do that, and you can do it through social media, through teaching, through attending learning events. You can do it through giving and attending art attacks, art talks, art attacks, is what I said, that you can do it through art exhibitions that you’re part of, or have organized, or even ones that you know nothing about, or you can do it through volunteering at art events and societies, and once you do these things and network what you do, then your people will assemble. Now, here’s the thing, you guys, is I hate, I abhor, I despise, like I just do not like doing two of the things that I just listed, and then I listed six of them, two of them I tolerate doing, and two of them I actually do look forward to getting up and doing every day, and those are the things that are fun for me, but the truth of it is I’m going to go to my grave, never letting you know which are which, because we have to do all of them, so even though I talk about, oh, I’m only going to do the things that make me happy. Oh, yeah, well, you know, there’s some things you got to do that don’t make you so happy too, because, and it served no purpose to complain, as I said. So, we’re not going to do that, but if you do those things, eventually you’re going to connect with people, and it may be a small group or it may be a large group, it may lead to opportunities, or it may not. Galleries may offer you representation, or crickets. It may grow your followers and subscribers, or it may not. You may increase your sales, or it may not. So, another truth, on most days I wake up, and I’m not at all happy with the results. It’s like when you want to lose 10 pounds in the. And you’re eating all the whole foods, and, and the scale is not budging, and you’re like, what the heck, right? But you can’t dwell on those failures, you have to look at them as growth opportunities, and so that brings me to my third check, which is the nuances and the tweaks, like, what do you need to do in order to achieve more specific goals, and you know, how are we going to grow our art career, given that this, these are our circumstances. So that’s everything that I had to say. And in conclusion, I mean, this is how I’ve crafted my enjoyable and sustainable experience. And I will never, ever, ever willingly retire. Now, if anyone wants to test this, you can give me a billion dollars. I will definitely buy a jet and have that at my, you know, beck and call, and I’ll have a 24/7 driver who can take me to Connecticut whenever I want, you know, have some other bells and whistles, but I’m going to be getting up and doing my art career just like I do now, I believe. But this doesn’t mean that it’s all rainbows and unicorns, right? My life has its ups and downs and stuff. I got a crown that just fell out that I have to go to the dentist and get the temporary crown thing put back in. I mean, we’re all dealing with stuff, but all of what I’ve shared today is just that. It’s not advice. I don’t have a marketing degree, I don’t have an art degree, I don’t have a sales degree. I, it’s not a formula for success, it’s just sharing my observations and experiences. Take what you think works for you, ignore the rest, and know that you’re every bit as capable and as resourced as the artist that’s sitting next to you. In my belief, don’t try to achieve anyone else’s goals, like set your own goals and your own, you know, things you want to get done, and work toward them. And I want to say, good luck, and thanks for being on this insanely difficult but fulfilling journey with me. Find more at Debk art.com and check out the monthly FASO articles I write for FASO and Substack. Hope this finds you and helps you to live your best art life too. And also, can you guys share this link, and comment, and like, and let us all know your experiences, because we’re mine. Maybe some of them missed the mark. You truly might say something that someone needs to hear, and it’s like just what they want to want to know about today. So go forth and inspire. How did I do that?

Angela Agosto 37:16

Yeah, you did amazing. That was amazing advice, and I feel like everybody can walk away with something today. From

Olya Konell 37:22

I personally have to say, I felt like you spoke to me in something, because I’ve been beating myself up about, you know, at one point I was all I did was art, but then I got burnt out, and then I like that part of your talk, like that spoke to me in such a way, and I still consider myself an artist, like there’s my corner right here, nobody can see it, but I have two windows, like perfect lighting, and I can rotate my lights, and I still doodle, but I haven’t shared anything, and I’m going through this season because I’m helping my husband with stuff, because he has a business that actually pays the bills, so it’s kind of like I felt that you were speaking to me, and not just took this pressure that I was putting on myself for stuff. I’m like, oh, okay, this is this is just that, like, because you can’t, you really can’t do all the things.

Debra Keirce 38:12

Oftentimes, I think, like, the things we hear and see, and not make us feel like we should, or like we have to, or we should, we’re supposed to. Yeah,

Olya Konell 38:20

are we like you were talking about you, we look at other people’s idea of success, and we think that that’s what success means, and we’ve never stopped to ask ourselves, and actually I’m reminded, so in we have this activity in our marketing calendar that I think everybody could do once, it’s like a your true self audit, you spend a whole month asking yourself different questions, because there’s.. I’ve done some of that through my life. I grew up being raised by parents who instilled certain values and ideas, and most of them were wonderful, but some of them were cultural, some of them were not positive, you know, some of.. you know, you’re you, you learn a lot from how people handle things, how they handle stress, etc. You learn what success is to them, so you think that’s what you have to do to be admired by your parents. You know all of that, and there’s comes a time, I think, in every person’s life, not just an artist, where we have to sit down and shed that and actually ask ourselves, is this true or is this just an opinion?

Angela Agosto 39:24

Yeah,

Olya Konell 39:25

you know, and we have to go through that audit because sometimes we’re aiming for things that we realize that we don’t actually even want, you know,

Debra Keirce 39:34

and for some people that opens the floodgates. It’s like, oh, when you stop and think and you come to your conclusions, it’s like, wow, I’ve been preventing myself, like I’ve been getting in my own way all these years, and didn’t do

Speaker 1 39:46

right,

Angela Agosto 39:46

and I like what you said earlier, because it’s like, is this true for me? Does this, what worked for my family, my friend, or my, you know, who, my mentor, whoever you’re, you know, comparing yourself to, does that work for me? I think that is a really good. And kind of like a check to do, like you said, Deborah, you should do like a soul check, because I think I mean we’ve talked about this before in other webinars, that if you’re painting, or even if you’re, you know, a writing, or you know, musician, or whatever you may be, whatever creative, if you’re doing what really sits well with you, with your soul. It’s going to come out in your work. You’re going to want to go do the stuff that may seem a little hard, like going to workshops and doing all this, where it seems work. You’re going to want to do that, because you’re going to want to improve and get out what you’re actually, what’s in your head, what you, what’s in your soul that you want to paint. And I think that’s going to find an audience, because people are going to connect with that, there’s somebody out, is going to connect with your work.

Olya Konell 40:43

Yeah, Tim here says, Thank you. I love your focus on enjoying your art career more than making it big, in quotes. Very reinforcing for me, it is a very satisfying retirement activity, not my path to fame. And in law, I can’t read today, and fortune, you know, signed Tim. No, I agree, because at the end of the day, whether we are super famous, and I’ve been on this topic a lot, because I’ve lost people in my life within a short period of time, friends, family, it’s like this is a talk that you don’t really, it’s not something you always think about until you have to think about, but we’re all going to die, and whether you’re super famous, you’re going to die, or you’re, or you’re not super famous, you’re going to die, and so your, your, your thoughts on legacy, and like, you know, how are we going to be remembered by the community? How are we going to be remembered by our family and friends, and what truly matters at the end, because, like, what a sad life it is to live, that you are aiming for something that truly brought you no joy along the way. You know, you do have to balance. You know, life isn’t perfect. We have to do things we don’t love. We have to pay bills. We have to wash the toilet, squid clean the toilet. Like, there’s things we have to do. You know, sometimes I hate.. you know, I have to wash my hair. I’m like, I hate washing.. you know, just whatever it is about life that you just is like a chore. I have chickens, I love them, but I have to clean the chicken coop once in a while. One

Debra Keirce 42:08

of my dear, dearest friends, I wasn’t going to bring her up, but she would love that I am. She’s probably watching me. Her name is Lori Silvagi, and she just passed away from stomach cancer, and she lives in, lived in the Knoxville area. She just passed away last Monday, and so, but I had some conversations with her beforehand, and she literally taught me how to.. I don’t think I can do it necessarily, but how to die gracefully. In that one of the last things she said to me was, you know, my one biggest regret, besides, you know, her husband and family having to go through the grieving process, and all said, my one biggest regret, Deb, is that you know we just got to a place where we are doing so well and so happy in our art, and we have the skills to do what we want to do, and now I don’t get to make any more, you know, I don’t get to put any more out there, and I, yeah, and I teared up too, and but I’ve thought about it so many times since that conversation, and I’m like, you know, that is like, doesn’t everybody want to go out with that regret? You know,

Olya Konell 43:14

I wish I could have made, yeah, yeah, you know, and there’s a lot of

Angela Agosto 43:18

people,

Olya Konell 43:19

yeah, there’s a quote that’s like the richest as artists we should feel. I reflect on this sometimes, like the fact that we picked up the brush to begin with, the pack or the pencil or the clay, or whatever it is that we’re working in, the fact that we even did it. Think of all the people that have that, that had that creative, you know, part of them that they never did anything with, and that dies with them when they die, and then there’s like this quote where the cemetery is the richest place in the whole universe, because it’s all the ideas that were, you know, inventions that were never built, stories that were never written, songs that were never saw, you know, all of the things that we have in us, and like the artist that picks up the brush, whether it be for a long period of their life or a short period of their life, or sporadically, like it doesn’t matter, like you didn’t take that to the grave, like what a beautiful thing, you know,

Angela Agosto 44:12

right? And it’s like you took that first step, so you are better today than you were yesterday when you hadn’t even started, and then tomorrow, if you keep going, then you’re even better than the day before, and just with that, like people who are just starting out, they’re like, oh, you know, I’m, I’m older, I, you know, there’s quite a few artists who say I started later, that’s okay, I mean, I’m kind of doing the same thing now, because I did take a break and I did other stuff, you know, to raise kids and all that, but I knew it as a kid, and I didn’t, like, we, you mentioned something, you touched on it a little bit earlier, Deborah, where, like, you know, my family, you did too, as well. It was like, no, don’t do art, that is not going to pay the bills. And so I gave it up, and then I would just kind of do it as a little hobby, you know, kind of when I needed to decompress. So then I realized, okay, that’s my decompress, that that’s where my happy place, and I’m still kind of doing that. And now I’m in the art world, so I get to, I do love little. At art and doing all that, and then you know, I take the time, I get inspired every day by seeing the art. We’re like, oh, you know, maybe I need to go this weekend, and

Olya Konell 45:07

yeah,

Angela Agosto 45:07

do that. So I think just start somewhere, even if it’s a hobby at first, and then you make it a career, or if it just stays a hobby, that’s okay, you’re still doing something you love.

Olya Konell 45:18

Yeah, I, and then Chris says successful when when preparedness meets opportunities. Being successful in any field means a job well done in a timely manner. Patience, execution, and I’m reading - I’m not reading well today. Methodical work are essential, but also it is necessary to take personal joy in what you do. Yeah, very so

Debra Keirce 45:41

right, and the patience part of it, I think, is what our culture, current culture, is really taking away, because I don’t think my kids grew up with as much patience as we had to have. I don’t think I had as much patience as my grandmother having used ring or washing machine, you know, like we just don’t.

Angela Agosto 45:58

Yeah,

Debra Keirce 45:59

be even different, even more different. Where we’re going to, I think, be even less patient, you know?

Angela Agosto 46:04

Yeah, the more stuff is at our fingertips. I want to.. I hate to say it, but the lazier we get, because we feel like we don’t have to actually.. oh, I’ll just see it here. And then you kind of get consumed, and it’s like you didn’t even do it, because you were too busy watching. I know one of our writers.. I can’t remember if it was.. oh, if it was Eugene. I’m trying to think of one of our writers. He wrote about this gentleman that he used to see in an elevator, and he worked there. And then, you know, he’d always greet him, always say hello, and it was like a daily thing. And then he said one day he didn’t, and he was in a corner on his phone, and he said, oh, you know, hi. And then he’s like, oh, sorry, you know, my kids just got me on on YouTube, or I think it was TikTok or something. He goes, and I’m learning how to do this because I really want to do, and it was a creative.. I can’t remember what it was at the moment, but and so he saw him at that for months and months and months, like he said he never did it because he every time I’d see him, he was on his phone watching and watching. He goes, and I realized I don’t think he’s ever going to do it, you know? Like, I tried talking to him, and he wasn’t the same cheerful person, just always on his phone. I was like, wow, that, and that made me realize, you know, what, that’s true. Sometimes I’ll go on Pinterest or somewhere, and I, I keep doing, I keep doing, and then I’m like, oh, you know, it’s been two months, and I haven’t actually put it to practice yet. Let me take a break.

Debra Keirce 47:16

Even artwork, like, if you put more than six seconds on a video, you know, the algorithms say, well, probably won’t get very many views, you know, and you would think that art would be something that you’d want to, like, spend your time looking at, but apparently the ones where it flashes quickly make people more engaged, so

Olya Konell 47:36

yeah, and you know, I think it’s, I think it’s just, it’s called the attention economy is the marketing term used, so that is what businesses are paying for. They’re paying for ad spots, they’re paying for somebody to mention their company name on a, on a video, because it’s, you know, that’s to get to get someone’s attention is the most valuable thing, because they say within the first three seconds that’s your opportunity, that’s how short our attention spans. Yes, when it comes to social media, I do think it’s different in different environments, obviously. So, if you go someplace in person, you’re walking, you’re more likely to slow down at a fair, at an event, and I actually wanted to comment on that specifically to the to all the different things that you do, where you listed learning events through giving and attending art talks, through our exhibitions, like volunteering events, societies, going places for everybody listening, and anybody listening to the recording, the value of actually going to support others and attend and view the amount of exposure that gives you, like, you know, it’s such, you’re giving because you’re contributing your time, you’re showing up, you’re supporting whatever it is, but at the same time, the I think we sometimes forget that marketing is the simple act of meeting other humans and telling them that we are an artist, that’s it. For artists, that is simply it. Like for other businesses, it’s going to be different because they’re selling products and services, right? For artists, it’s the art is just important as the artist, so whether it’s social media, you know, and you can, you know, we have artists that come on, and some swear by Instagram, and some hate Instagram, and some like this, and some only do sell at shows, and the thing that I always like to remind people of is, like, we are all unique individuals with different skills, so if you’re really good at something, put more energy into that, do a little bit of everything else, but that becomes your thing, you know. And you still go to do this and that, and it’s there’s not like one. It’s that’s at the end of the day, it’s just, did you go out and meet people in person or online? Did you shake some hands? Did you interact somehow? That’s the real. Yellow, it is, and

Debra Keirce 50:01

that’s like that guy I was talking about. His name’s Ben Wilson, the London Bridge artist guy. Yeah, you know, he’s out there in person, and he’s not interacting with anybody, but he’s there physically. I think that played into his becoming popular, his going viral.

Angela Agosto 50:16

Yeah, I’m sure. I know we had a few artists. There was two that come to mind. Warren Chang said he went to a friend’s art reception, like an opening, and that’s how he was discovered, you know. He, I think, by a gallery, and then he said he found somebody who became a collector later as well, just by going to that one event that wasn’t even for him, but it’s, you know, kind of interacting, sort of talking to people, and then we also had Steve Atkins, who said that he volunteered to do a poster for the rodeo that they have in Prescott, Arizona, and since it’s been a few years now that he actually designs the poster for the big event, they sell his prints there, he gets to actually keep it in commission, I think, and sell the painting itself, so it’s kind of become a commission, but it’s, it’s for him now every year, so he gets a lot of exposure because he gets to sit there and meet people with his paintings and do like a little demo or something, and then I know, like, for Shanna, she said that, or Shayna, she said that for her DMing, interacting on social media, so we just had two that I mentioned in person going to events, and then we had somebody who does it online, I mean, I’m sure she does in person as well, but she said for her that’s where she communicates with people, and I know I’ve got two other people who said that Facebook, whenever they go on Facebook and post something and just kind of talk a little bit about it, their painting always sells. So I feel like, you know, there’s two options. If you don’t have access, maybe you live in a small town, you don’t have art fairs, or you know, art events, then do the online thing more. If you get a chance, like Deborah, you had said, you know, you found six to take you, maybe you, you have some friends online in the art world, and they’re going to travel somewhere, and maybe you just need to get to where they’re at, and then you all travel together, like that can be something else you can do to kind of do the in person.

Debra Keirce 52:00

The number one artist on TikTok, Devon Rodriguez. He’s the guy who does all the portraits of people in the subway in New York, and all that. Yeah, he actually.. he actually.. it’s a funny story, but I was with another friend of mine, Juan Ramirez, and we were at the portrait gallery in DC, and we were looking at an exhibition, and he was down there, Davon was looking at a port at something that a friend had done, which was a sculpture of Devon on that was on the wall in the portrait gallery, and so it was kind of cool. The guard let him go behind the thing and take a picture, but afterwards I invited them back to my house, and so it was Devon and Mon, who Mon Habib, Devon Rodriguez, and Juan, so I had Mon Juan and Devon in my, and they, and so Devon and Juan were painting and drawing Man, and we were talking about things, and I had no idea who Devon was, because he wasn’t famous back then, he was living in Brooklyn and talking about how he’d like to get out of the hood, and you know, stuff, you know, the going on in his life, and again came really rough circumstances and stuff, and and so we were having this conversation about things, and then it was like the next year, one year, two years later, I’m seeing him on TikTok, I’m like, what the heck, so I’m DMing him, going, what happened? I guess all your dreams came true, you know. He’s like, yeah, that was so cool, but he was, I mean, literally it happened that fast, where it went viral, and it was just, he was all lined up, because he was talking about how he didn’t have the money to go to RISD, which was his dream, and I’m looking at what he’s drawing, going, I don’t think you need RISD, you know, and and so it was, it was that quickly that opportunity, but it was years and years, I don’t know how many, that he had been doing the stuff on the subway, and, like you said, it was in person, and he’s interacting with people, and I don’t know exactly how he got the TikTok talk gig, how that all happened for him, but it’s like when you line yourself up in those places where you’re around people, you’re just setting yourself up for those eventual successes, and

Angela Agosto 54:07

you

Debra Keirce 54:08

still have to be patient. I mean, he went through a lot in order to get to where he is now, but it’s really cool to see this, you know, Rags to Rich’s story actually happen. And then he bought his grandmother a house, and they’re living in, you know,

Angela Agosto 54:19

part of New

Debra Keirce 54:20

York now, and all it’s like, wow,

Olya Konell 54:22

that’s amazing. So I followed him from the, that probably that first year, like I, because I do have a TikTok, it’s more for, you know, I’ll just go look at stuff, and I remember him popping up, and I remember his first, like, video going, like, I actually followed him from the beginning, and I just thought it was so cool, but I had no idea that you know you met him a year prior, and what an amazing story like that would be, that that would be an amazing, yeah, that is an amazing story, and it’s a reminder to all of us that we all have that that story of the beat of the bee of the before and. What you were talking about, like peaking sometimes as artists, we some artists might peak early in life, some might peak later. There is no formula, there is no perfect shoe for success. And then I had a thought, and I wanted to share this with everybody. One of the things you talked about was, like, it, you know, being envious is not productive, or being, you know, all of those frustrations, being frustrated about this, your circumstances, because you have, you, you know, you, you have a hard life, or you can’t do this, or you have that. There’s an interesting, you know, all of that. I would lump into the category of stress, stressful things, right? You know that we go through in life, whether it be challenges or whatever. There’s there’s a fascinating article, like on a brain, you know, like brain research studies. Stress is only harmful to you if you believe it is. So they studied this, they had, they did the groups of people, they.. this is a.. this is a measured fact that that stress is only harmful if you believe it is. If you believe that it makes you stronger. So, they had three groups of people: people that believe that stress makes them stronger, or stressful situations, or hard challenges in life. People that had literally practically no stress in their life lived a very stress-free life, and people that believe that stress was bad for their health or bad for whatever, the people that believe that stress made them stronger lived longer than those that had no stress at all, that reported no stress at all, and those that obviously believed that it was bad for them. It obviously, they had the shortest lifespans, etc. So that tells you how powerful our brain is when it comes to what happens physiologically to our bodies. It is the same for everything else that we do in life. So, if challenge, if you believe challenges will make you stronger and will help you succeed, there’s a part of your brain called the Reticular Activating System, and that is literally your built-in subconscious algorithm that connects your conscious mind with your subconscious mind, and it sits kind of right at the base of your brainstem, and so what it does is, if that’s what you believe, your subconscious interpretations, what you notice, all of that, you know, it doesn’t have a reasoning mechanism. It literally takes input data, like, I, you know, I, I’m always late, you will always be late, I, you know, so you know that thing about never speaking negatively about yourself, you know, all the woo, so there’s actually a scientific wired way that our brain works, so if you believe that you know all these challenges I’m going through, these financial struggles, like they will, I will break through someday, I’m going to find an opportunity that reticular activating system will notice the opportunity, kind of like hearing your name called out in a loud room full of lots of voices, that’s literally what it does, you know, and so it’s just fascinating to me, like that, you know, sometimes we are our at worst enemy because we put up those barriers that prevent ourselves, you know, from getting to that place,

Debra Keirce 58:20

and what you’re saying, oh yeah, I think the value in this is once you know this, you can’t, on you can’t not see that, so like, have you ever been in those situations, I have, where you join a sketch group or you join a critique group or something, and you, and you can see the people that are just dragging everybody down into those negative rabbit holes, and you get out of them, the people that get out of them, you can, you can watch, and you see those are the ones who are successful, or at least happy in their art careers, and then the people in those rabbit holes, you know, they continue to be there for years, or the group disbands, so yeah, I’ve seen what you, what you’re exactly what you’re talking about, like play out, and I think that once you’re aware of it, you, it’s very obvious when you, from the minute you walk into a group, you kind of get that vibe, and you know, right?

Olya Konell 59:08

You just know exactly, and you’re not, and I heard this somewhere, like, if you’re in, if you’re in a group or in a place or something, you’re not a tree, just

Angela Agosto 59:20

move, yeah, that’s that’s true, and I know for myself, and even like I’ve been trying to instill that in my kids,

Olya Konell 59:25

yeah,

Angela Agosto 59:26

when the stuff, or you know, like a deadline or stress, I’m actually at my best, like my creative, whether it’s cooking or drawing, or you know, a project I have to do, I’m sharper, and it comes out even better because I had that little stress, it kind of becomes like a little bit of a good adrenaline for me, yeah, motivates me to do it, and sometimes when I’m stuck, I’m like, maybe I need somebody to stress me out, because I’m not going, and I know we had one artist, she was telling me that she had a, she kind of felt like she had gotten blocked, but it’s because she gets so stressful when she would commit. Something, and then time was ticking, and maybe she had committed to certain paintings for an exhibition, and then she would get stuck, because she would kind of let that become sort of like a bad mind game for herself, and she’s like, “I’m blocking, so she’s like, “I’m never doing those again. Like, okay, I think you’ll know your limits. Yeah.

Debra Keirce 1:00:17

Do you watch those? What I was talking about, the Naked and afraid and alone shows. Do you ever watch any of those?

Olya Konell 1:00:22

Yes, I have.

Angela Agosto 1:00:23

I’ve never

Debra Keirce 1:00:24

seen.

Olya Konell 1:00:24

I have. I don’t ever tune in for a whole season, because, but I will watch like all randomly. I want to watch this episode, not watch

Debra Keirce 1:00:34

it. I’m fascinated in those about how the mind, your mindset can overcome things that, like, I couldn’t even fathom experiencing the bug bites, and you know, the heat, all that stuff, the thorns, all the stuff they have to do. How you can just put your brain in a place. And here’s the thing, is I feel like, as artists, we have this superpower we don’t talk about very much, and probably only it sounds like you’re very aware of this brain stuff, but there’s the theta brain, the waves that happen, and when you go into your zone of painting or drawing, or whatever you’re doing to create, you are in that theta zone, and I know for myself that this is why I have to cut myself off at four hours of driving, is I go into these theta zone places much more easily now that I’ve been arting for so long, and so when I’m driving along, if I’m thinking about an art project or whatever, I’ll forget I’m the one behind the wheel, and I’ll be like, you know, somebody stopped the car. Oh, wait, I’m driving, you know, I mean, dangerous if I’m not focused, so I got to pay attention to that. But yeah, I feel like that’s one of our superpowers as artists, is to go into that place where we can have that mindset that we need to overcome those things.

Olya Konell 1:01:44

Yeah, absolutely. And for me, music is a huge thing. I’ll turn something on, and that kind of sets the.. because, yes, time just.. it’s almost like you’re in a time warp, and time ceases to exist, and you’re like, yeah, I. Angela, something you mentioned, and I wanted to throw this out. So, I heard this quote - it, I don’t remember from who, and I wish I could give credit, but it said that creativity is basically problem solving, or somebody said it, or something. But I heard it somewhere, I really liked it, because at the end of the day, like, everything, it’s like your creativity is probably, how am I going to capture this? You’re probably, you know, how am I? You know, you’re how am I going to say this? How am I going to portray this? Or if creativity in the workspace is something as simple as, like, I only have one hour and I need to get this done, so how can I go from A to Z the fastest? You know, oh, I’ll just do this, I’ll just do that. You’re done, because I am the same way. I will intend, I’ll actually give myself a faux deadlines, you know, and I’ll have an alarm going off, like I have one hour left, or whatever. I will intentionally do that for myself, because that literally lights a little bit of that creative fire, and I’m like, oh wait, if I layer this, if I even in painting, I’m like, okay, I have to get this commission done, if I do it this way. If I under paint in acrylic and over paint in oil, I’ll have a thinner oil layer. I can still use, you know what I mean, like, but I can get it to dry fast enough to ship by this date, or whatever.

Angela Agosto 1:03:14

Yeah, yeah.

Olya Konell 1:03:18

Oren says self-doubt, it’s is a huge motivator to do your best work.

Angela Agosto 1:03:22

Yes,

Olya Konell 1:03:23

yeah.

Debra Keirce 1:03:24

Orin’s amazing. It’s Orin Laloy, I bet he’s a friend of mine, and he’s an amazing artist. He’s he’s someone who you probably want to have on a webinar someday.

Olya Konell 1:03:34

Oh, we’ll have to check

Angela Agosto 1:03:35

him out,

Olya Konell 1:03:36

Oren

Debra Keirce 1:03:38

Laloya, L O L O I. Sounds like a song, doesn’t it? When you,

Olya Konell 1:03:43

yes, and Vivi was asking, what was the name of the art program you said you went to,

Debra Keirce 1:03:48

Any Art Academies, and it’s you can do it remotely, which is how I did it, because I’m not local to any of the schools, but it’s really quite amazing. It’s Ani was the curriculum was written by Anthony Whychulis, who I can.. I’m proud to call a friend, but he’s probably one of the, if not the best trompe l’oeil artists in the country today, and he teamed up with a couple of other people who created these five, I think they have five now, schools in different places, his in New Jersey, or excuse me, in Pennsylvania, and then I’m going to get them wrong, so you can just go to the website and look, but they’re like Thailand and Sri Lanka and different places, right, and they’re what they are is people that want to be students at the Aynte Art Academies can apply to do so, and if you get accepted, and I think it’s like 15 or 20 in each location, then you are accepted. There’s no tuition, there’s no supply. You don’t pay for supplies. Everything is provided for you. And what they are is these places that are in these different countries, they’re in third world type situations, but right next to a very exclusive. Of resort, you know, the kind that you pay 1000s of dollars a week to get like all of your needs met and have a wonderful time, and so they’ve created an economy between the resorts and the schools, so that people will have, they’ll have an art show, and people will have sales, and I mean, there, you know, if a painting is purchased at one of the prices, like we would have in the United States, which they’re, you can look at them, they’re totally worth it, that can, like, buy someone a house over there, you know, so it’s a really neat humanitarian and philanthropic, and, but you know, wonderful industry that they have going on

Speaker 2 1:05:37

here,

Debra Keirce 1:05:37

but they also have the language of drawing and the language of painting, both of which are available in DVDs, which is how I did them, and, and you print, you get a bunch of stuff printed out in a big binder, and then you can go ahead and you can follow the curriculum. What I did was, because I’m friends with a lot of the people in the curriculum, I went and I talked to the instructors and different people, and you can connect with people, and you can either do it in a paid way, or you can do it, you know, in just a off-the-cuff way, or whatever, get their opinion on whether your assignments, you know, whether you’ve passed or whatever, but also now with AI, you can go on to AI, and you can say, hey, does this piece that I just completed, here’s my, my an image of it does this meet the exercise, the criteria for the exercises for the language of drawing on the academy’s program, or whatever, and compare, and basically use AI to give you, because they’ve got this thing called Smarter Marks, Smarter, and then M A R X that Anthony runs, it’s a website with all kinds of information, including the criteria and everything that is required to do these assignments for the Ani Art Academies, and so the AI will access that and be able to, you know, like basically be an online grader, not as good as being there in person, not as good as going, paying someone to be an instructor, and, and you know, follow you on every assignment, but anyway, that’s more probably than this person wanted to know. But

Olya Konell 1:07:06

no, this

Angela Agosto 1:07:07

I think it’s good. I actually posted the name, I got it from your, from your site, and I did post earlier your resume, so they could see what you were talking about.

Olya Konell 1:07:14

Yeah,

Debra Keirce 1:07:14

okay. Thank you.

Olya Konell 1:07:15

There’s, you know, and and there’s lots of different.. I think it’s amazing that there’s lots of different options for people, depending on where they are geographically on the globe, or where they are in life, and you know, time, and sometimes on online is easier. Like, I’ve.. I’m also, I guess, a self-taught artist, you know, and I know that I need to.. I do need to.. I’m in that place where I do.. I’m ready for some feedback, and I want to learn from some people in person, and I want to do that, but it is, you know, I, it’s, it’s amazing how much you can learn on online, the amount of hours I would watch for free on YouTube, like I found artists whose art I admired, and they put out videos, and I would just sit there and watch them paint, and then pause, and, like, okay, you know, and it’s amazing how much you can learn by observation, especially.

Debra Keirce 1:08:06

And I have not done it, but doesn’t FASO have that option where you can create tutorials or whatever on YouTube, and then put them on your website and sell them?

Angela Agosto 1:08:16

Yes, yes, you sure can. We do have, you know, where you can post your videos and sell them. Some of some artists give them for free on there, and then they link to where, oh, here’s the portions,

Speaker 1 1:08:25

you know,

Angela Agosto 1:08:26

ones, yeah, and

Debra Keirce 1:08:26

I don’t, I mean, I want to tell you guys how to do your business, but you know what would be cool is if you had a tab on the website where you could like access all the artists that have their videos available, you know, then maybe we

Angela Agosto 1:08:38

actually do, we do have a section, it’s in the control panel, which we’re updating now, going to be called the dashboard, but under videos you can see all the free ones that anybody’s posted to share for free, and then we used to obviously sell some courses as well, so for those who bought some in the past, you can also see purchase videos, and then, of course, your own that you’re going to have on your site, but yeah, we do have it. It’s a little buried. It is going to be a little bit. It’s going to actually be on the top bar, only there’s going to be like three or four on the new UI that’s coming, the new interface that’s coming soon. And it’s going to also, I know we had complaints, people like, it’s so small and it’s, it’s black and you can’t really see it. We took all that into consideration. So feedback, we are. It’s always welcome. So, yes, Deborah, thank you. And it is going to be now more highlighted, since you, you know, obviously you didn’t know it was there, and there’s people who don’t know it’s there either.

Olya Konell 1:09:29

Yeah, for artists that you were talking about lucrative ways of making money, you know, for example, teaching is one of those, and there’s different ways of teaching. There’s online, there’s in person for the artist that maybe goes into, okay, I want to teach, but I just want to record a video and make it affordable, so people can get it, and that way there’s a slow trickle. Something that I have seen for anyone listening, if you want to kind of see it done really well, Matthew White is a watercolor painter, and he has a very. Big YouTube channel, and so he’ll put out. He’s very generous, and he puts out videos for free, but if you want to, like, in all of his videos, you can get a free something if you sign up for his newsletter, and that’s where he has all of the full on courses. Like, he’s developed these video courses, people, like, there’s my, you know, people can get critiques, they can, you know, so if you have the, if, if, if you are up for that, like it’s a certain type of brain that likes to organize information that way, and can put it all together. If you’re an artist that you’re like, huh, my brain likes that, I want to do that, go look at his, look at how he does it, maybe go sign up, see what you get, you know, and you can mimic, you know, and do your own thing for your own art. If you’re into that teaching space, and it’s did

Angela Agosto 1:10:51

a whole session with us too,

Angela Agosto 1:10:53

for

Speaker 1 1:10:53

those

Olya Konell 1:10:54

about it.

Angela Agosto 1:10:54

Yeah, for FASO members, you can go to the marketing center video library, and you can see, because it was a whole session we did on that right, where he explained how he monetized YouTube by just first offering for free, and I remember it was really small, the number, and then within like a year he

Olya Konell 1:11:10

took off,

Angela Agosto 1:11:11

yeah, a

Olya Konell 1:11:11

consistency, and it was that’s what he said, so your, your mention of consistency, I think we underestimate the power of doing small things over a long period of time. Sometimes

Debra Keirce 1:11:23

we do, we do,

Olya Konell 1:11:25

yeah. And that patience, and oh gosh, what is it? It’s like think about the little water drip always fall, and it can carve a rock, you know, a single water. So we, and the same thing for weight loss, like, oh, I want it yesterday, you know, or I want it done tomorrow, like anything, whether it be a health goal, or

Speaker 1 1:11:46

yeah,

Olya Konell 1:11:46

you know,

Angela Agosto 1:11:47

hey, yeah,

Olya Konell 1:11:48

yeah, but I really appreciate, I really appreciate the direct messages, and I think that it needs to be said, and I felt like sometimes, you know, there’s spaces in rooms where we wouldn’t go, and, like you said, blurt that out, because that’s not the audience didn’t come for that, but in this space, in this room, for this episode, this is why people are coming, because they want to hear those things, and I think that we need, we need those rooms, we need those spaces, because we can’t be coddled too much, you know. Otherwise, it’s going to set us up for failure.

Debra Keirce 1:12:30

And my hope, truly, is that people, you know, go forth and inspire, like I said, in that, you know, they’ll hear these things, and then maybe have discussions in other groups, or wherever they’re interacting with artists, and you know, maybe not be so shy to just go, “Hey, you know, what do you think about this or that? Because I can talk about these things in person, but when you write them things down, like I’m very careful in those FASO Way articles, I try to be careful, because whatever you say can be interpreted depending on the intonation in so many different ways, so you don’t ever want to offend anybody, but you know there’s there’s value in having these frank discussions, because we’re all going through it and we’re all feeling it.

Olya Konell 1:13:09

Yeah, and you’re right, be there’s no, no amount of emojis that you

Angela Agosto 1:13:14

can put

Olya Konell 1:13:15

behind certain sentences to make sure they land right, because they, those things are meant to be said with the voice and tone and facial expressions, and I think that’s what makes it hard. Some, sometimes, is like when you can’t see the other people’s faces, you’re like, am I going too far? Am I, you know, yeah.

Debra Keirce 1:13:34

And, and if you’re not good at reading the room, you could be like, I talked a lot about people who play the victim, and it’s not. I don’t, I think it’s culturally encouraged. I don’t think it’s necessarily their fault, but I feel like those people don’t even know what they’re doing, and everybody around them, you can just see people’s like body language cringing or whatever when they’re talking, and you feel for them, and yet you can’t reach out and say to them, stop, this is what you’re doing, and so maybe if they heard something like this, you know, or a conversation that’s third party that doesn’t involve them, that wait a minute, maybe would click and go do that

Angela Agosto 1:14:08

for sure. I know how many times I’ve told somebody something, especially my kids, and then a few years later it’s like, oh, this teacher, this professor told me this, and then sometimes I get the, I know you told me that, I’m like, I don’t even care, as long as you finally got it. I don’t, don’t need credit, I don’t need to. I said, I’m just happy you finally heard it. And usually I feel like coming from an outside source, you’re probably going to listen than somebody close to you. Tell me, and I think it’s great that you put the notes together and shared it with everybody, because seeing that, and then you know, reading that, and then actually seeing you talk about each one, and addressing, I think, really gave us a lot of context on what your message was for each, so

Olya Konell 1:14:48

yeah,

Debra Keirce 1:14:49

text is important in these frank discussions. I’m

Olya Konell 1:14:53

really excited for this to actually go out, so if anybody you know is watching the recording, thank. You for joining us, please. If you’re watching the recording, getting, you know, share your experiences. If you have things that maybe you don’t say out loud, but you can, you know, feel comfortable putting it into a comment, feel free to go ahead and drop them in the comments as well. We love the discussions we get on some of these, you know, articles or posts or emails that go out, we get a lot of good thoughts and interactions and feedback.

Debra Keirce 1:15:27

We make a rule: no judgment, like whatever goes in the comments stays in the comments. This

Olya Konell 1:15:31

is, this is a

Debra Keirce 1:15:33

people feel safe. Yeah,

Olya Konell 1:15:35

this is this is a safe zone. Absolutely. So, and we’re just going to assume that there’s like a bunch of positive emojis behind, like we’re going to assume that everything is coming from a place of genuine pure heart. Yeah, so

Debra Keirce 1:15:53

I don’t think Angela could be anything but pure hearted if she..

Angela Agosto 1:15:56

I always tell people I’m going to never assume that you’re going to.. you’re being mean, so if you want to be direct, I said, “You better just tell me, because I’m just gonna assume that you, that you’re coming from a good place.

Olya Konell 1:16:07

Yeah, I like, I like living life that way as well. But I.. oh, one last question from.. we’ll grab it, Toby. Our non-confungal. oh,

Angela Agosto 1:16:21

probably NFTs,

Olya Konell 1:16:22

yeah, NF, NFTs worth investing in as an artist, or are they a fad? So, what are your thoughts? I know what my thoughts are, but Deborah, what do you think?

Debra Keirce 1:16:32

I have no thoughts. I am literally so focused on what I’m doing right now. I don’t even do prints, I don’t do videos, I don’t do prints, I don’t do anything but original fine art that I’m selling to people in different venues, so to me the NFT is it’s not tangible, and I want to back to my engineering days, I went into chemical engineering because I mean I know gasses, you can’t see them, but most things is flowing, water flowing through pipes, and you can touch them, it’s tangible, I didn’t even like electricity because it scared me, because it was something you couldn’t see, so I feel like in the engineering world, NFTs are like electrical engineers, I don’t, you don’t want to get too close to them, they can shock you, you know, so I think that it can be good, and certainly all of us need our power, right, but on the other hand, I don’t know enough to, I know enough just to be dangerous, so I think it’s like any other, the people, the artists who I know, who have, and I won’t say their names, because I don’t know that they want to be publicly called out like that as people that are experts in it, but the ones that have gotten into it, and I’ve just, I’m just an observer, they’ve spent a lot of time learning the whole thing, and I mean it’s like anything else, they’ve had to devote, I mean, they pulled away from creating original art and were only doing AI-generated art and creating NFTs, and that was how they got their level of success in that area, and I just wasn’t willing to do that, so I didn’t,

Olya Konell 1:17:55

yeah, yeah, I think that’s a very, I love your analogy that if you aren’t careful, you can get electrocuted, because yes, you can. If you’re not careful, you can get scammed really, really, really bad. And you have to learn a lot, just like you would to become an electrical engineer. Like, you have to understand how everything works to be able to play that game, and it takes a lot of time. You don’t, you don’t just get a certificate, like certificate, like of completion, like you actually have to go to school to work to be an electrician, like you, you, there’s, it’s, it’s even as a trade, it’s not one that you can just get your foot in the door and, like, you know, and work your way up into, like, this is it, this is one of those things, so that’s what I would say is, if you have the time, and you have your brain can wrap around the ideas of, and you have the will, you know, determination and willpower, and you’re gonna, you’re gonna invest into it. It might work for you, like you, she was saying, but

Angela Agosto 1:18:56

it’s a lot of research.

Olya Konell 1:18:57

If you’re looking for an easy way to make money, that is not it.

Angela Agosto 1:19:00

It is not. There’s always things changing with the currencies, and that we had somebody on for, and she said that she spent a lot of time, like I mean a good year doing research. And then we just had somebody ask about that, like, it, what do I do if I’m getting, you know, asked for NFTs? I think Clint commented, and he said, if you don’t do it, you’re not familiar, and then just say sorry. No, I don’t do this. Don’t you know? Here are my paintings. Here’s my actual, you know, actual work that you could purchase, but don’t even try to get for somebody new with promises, because most of the time is you’re going to get scammed, or you’re even if you’re, if it’s real, maybe you’re not going to get the full money or the full worth of it, because you didn’t know much about

Olya Konell 1:19:42

it. Yeah,

Debra Keirce 1:19:43

I’ve been told time and again that those people who send all those emails saying, I love your art, is it available in NFTs? They’ve told me time and again people who I consider experts that nobody in the NFT world is going to email an artist and say, can I have an NFT of your work? So,

Olya Konell 1:19:59

yes. They are only going to go to places where they’re already being sold, and Toby, to answer your question, selling them, that’s exactly what we’re talking about. Selling NFTs is not an easy, simple thing to do. There’s a lot you have to learn to get started, to do it right, to actually be able to sell them. So, if you’re willing to jump into it and learn, and you know, if you don’t do the learning, you will probably end up getting the short, well, you will get the short end of the stick, possibly get scammed, you know, and you’re going to spend, you know, you’re, you’re not going to get the reward that you’re looking for, as far as making money, so

Angela Agosto 1:20:38

if

Olya Konell 1:20:38

you’re going to sell them, is it worth investing only if you want to invest time, money, and you know, I think time is the biggest one, and mental bandwidth, because it’s, it’s not something that you just go on, upload a picture, and there you go, you know,

Angela Agosto 1:20:58

yeah, and I was gonna,

Olya Konell 1:21:00

yeah,

Angela Agosto 1:21:00

say that, even though we had the person on there, and we pretty much, the whole conversation between her and Clint was about NFTs, and she had another, another artist who was doing it as well. It was a few years ago, so probably the information is a little outdated with, because I know that they’ve changed stuff with Bitcoin and all that other

Olya Konell 1:21:17

stuff. For a while there, I was hearing stuff about it. I was seeing it on X, you know, or formerly known as Twitter, whatever. But, like, I.. but now I don’t see anything

Angela Agosto 1:21:28

about them

Olya Konell 1:21:29

at all. So I think of it like as Pokémon cards, you know, they’re things come and go. Maybe I don’t know.

Debra Keirce 1:21:37

My son-in-law collects Pokémon cards. They’re still pretty big, pretty expensive,

Olya Konell 1:21:41

tangible.

Debra Keirce 1:21:44

Yeah, they’re tangible, but, but the are there even NFT galleries? I’ve never seen one. Are there like online places you can go to see NFT art?

Olya Konell 1:21:52

Yeah, there’s sites

Angela Agosto 1:21:54

that haven’t heard of any recently.

Olya Konell 1:21:56

Well, the sites that people use to sell their NFTs through that turn them into a non-fungible token, kind of a thing, like I.. I don’t.. I don’t know which ones are the most popular ones at this moment, but for a while, when it first started out, it was like the hot thing, but you don’t even hear about it anymore, and I follow people in finances, you know, you know, etc. so

Debra Keirce 1:22:22

there was

Angela Agosto 1:22:23

some pop-up ones that were coming here into town, but it’s been a few, because we were always getting notified. It’s been a few years since we, since we’ve even heard about it. So, I don’t know if that’s that big anymore, but yeah, they were like those digital traveling galleries.

Olya Konell 1:22:34

Yeah, and as far as if it’s a viable option, kind of what this whole, this whole talk started out from it’s like it’s a, there’s lots of ways that artists can make money. It’s a viable option if it’s something that you do and it’s something that you are willing to do, and that’s, you know, it’s there in the art space. I mean, there’s lots of different things that could be viable, like it’s a hard question to answer, because only you can answer that for yourself, but the best thing to do is to go learn about what it is, because no one can tell you, no one can answer that, because you do have to have a certain level of technical skill, you do have to, you know, as far as like being able to do things on a computer, we’ve had people ask that don’t even know how to use social media, and now they’re going to be challenging themselves to push more buttons. I’m just being direct here. I’m like, is this? Are you sure you, you know, if you really want to tackle this and you’re struggling using a computer, start with using the computer first, or your smartphone, and then work your way up to getting involved in more complicated tech stuff, does that make sense? But some people, they naturally gravitate towards that, they’re really good with all of the tech stuff, they’re like, yeah, this isn’t my thing, I, you know, and they’ll jump into it. So, is it viable? Only you can answer that question. No, the

Debra Keirce 1:23:56

websites that people would go if they wanted to learn about this. Do you know? Oh, yeah.

Olya Konell 1:24:02

Yeah, there. You know, I would probably just go. My, I’ve graduated from YouTube University, so in Google. So, if I have a question, I go in and I just type the question into YouTube, and then somebody smarter than me has guaranteed made some videos about it, and then I picked the ones that have had the most views that are within the last 12 months, and that’s usually what I..

Debra Keirce 1:24:26

that’s how our son learned how to do car repairs, and now he changes my brakes. I love it.

Olya Konell 1:24:32

Yeah,

Angela Agosto 1:24:33

yep, that’s what my husband does, our IRAC now. We save 1000s there, but you know what? I just looked at that artist just to see if they’re still doing it, and I see she doesn’t have anything on it on her site anymore, and she even took down the videos that she shared before, so

Olya Konell 1:24:46

yeah,

Angela Agosto 1:24:47

and she had taken a lot of time and studied it, and you know, was really big into it, and I did just,

Olya Konell 1:24:53

yeah, yeah, so yeah, if anybody emails you about it, ignore if it’s something that you. Personally, I want to get into, you know, learn about it first before you decide if it’s viable. So cool

Debra Keirce 1:25:06

that we have all these new options to explore, though.

Olya Konell 1:25:08

That is very cool. Exactly. Yeah, I think that’s amazing. The opportunities have never been better. The competition has never been better, but tenacity, consistency, last one standing always wins, and, and I remember my husband told me that before I started. He was like, you know, are you going to be a doer or a donor? The donors are going to, you know, it was from, it was from a movie, it was no pain, or I don’t remember what movie it was, but it was some comedy, and he’s like, a year for a year, he kept asking me, you can be a doer or a donor, because I kept having excuses for different things, and then finally, like, it led up to me quitting my nine to five and diving full into what I was, you know, going to do. So it’s like, yeah, it’s..

Angela Agosto 1:25:58

I have a quote that I always tell my kids, since they were younger. It’s Walt Disney. I’m a big Walt Disney fan from Lompess when he used to do his cartoon and sketches. He’s quote “Keep moving forward, opening new doors and doing new things, because we’re curious and curiosity keeps us leading down new paths.” I tell my girls, I said, you always just have to keep learning, keep moving forward, you know. And it’s okay to look back if you’re going to learn from it. Otherwise, just, you know, forward forward is the way to go.

Olya Konell 1:26:22

I love that.

Debra Keirce 1:26:24

Look, how positive you all are. I love this conversation, like nobody’s brought up anything. That was what I was nervous about, is you know, the negative stuff can sometimes overwhelm the conversations, and not in this case. So, that’s

Olya Konell 1:26:34

no, no, I, yeah, no, nope, yeah. I’m on a health journey, by the way, so that’s only positive for me. That’s,

Angela Agosto 1:26:44

I’ve always been an optimist, and I kind of still, still, still am like that.

Olya Konell 1:26:49

Yeah, there, yeah, it’s there’s a brain psychologist. I watched a podcast, and he says he always asks himself before he goes to bed not what he’s grateful for, but one thing that went well, and that could be as simple as my coffee was really good this morning, it could be something you know, or it could be lots of things that that that went well, and it’s interesting because if we do that consistently over time, we wire our brains, and the reason why I’m so, I’m no expert in brain things, I’m just curious, like Angela, you know, curiosity and curiosity, like you just Google answers to things, and you like, oh, that’s a fun fact,

Angela Agosto 1:27:31

yeah. When I’m watching stuff, I’m like, what does this mean? How did they do that? I’ll go and Google it.

Debra Keirce 1:27:38

Curiosity can be good, I agree, but it also killed the cat, and I’m very cat-like at

Angela Agosto 1:27:43

That was in my head. I’m like, don’t say that one, but yeah, I love this. This one, you know, just because I think it.. I have a Walt Disney quote book, and he said failure is what always made him move forward, and that’s why he became.. he said, if I would have stopped with when he lost Oswald, you know, with he lost the copyrights to his own character. He said, then I never would have had any of this, like movies, and, and at the time, just Disneyland and stuff. It was because he fell and got back up, and he said, that’s if I’m not failing, then I’m not doing,

Olya Konell 1:28:15

you’re not moving forward. I love that. You’re not growing. Yeah, and

Debra Keirce 1:28:19

I feel like it’s so important to share all this stuff, which is why I love these webinars and these forums and everything. It, my kids were laughing at me. A tragic thing that happened, we’re noticing on YouTube yesterday they had this thing where a woman pulled into a parking space and got out of her car in New York, and she fell into a man hole was open and died, and so they were looking at it on the camera coverage, or whatever, and apparently a large truck had gone over that manhole, and it dislodged the manhole 12 minutes before she parked her car, and then just got out. It was probably dark, I don’t know, and you know, just stepped into the hole, and I’m like, this is me, I would step into the hole and be gone, like this is this is exactly this mr. Magoo stuff. This is what I do in life, right? And so my kids, my, you know, my kids were like, well, now you know, look before you step when you get out of your car, and you better believe it every time now. I, because they shared that, I’m like, thank you, thank you.

Angela Agosto 1:29:22

Now I will be looking for the help manhole, because you share that. Now I’m going to, because if anything’s gonna go wrong, it always happens to me. Oh my gosh, I didn’t know they’re like you. How did you not know that you’ve been accident-prone your whole life? I’m like, what. So yeah, I’m like extra careful now, but and now I’m gonna watch where I stop.

Olya Konell 1:29:40

Yeah,

Debra Keirce 1:29:41

that legit just happened in New York City yesterday,

Olya Konell 1:29:45

you know. And going back to the reticular activating system, I’m going to counter that with this last thing. So, why I went down this is, I used to be, what’s what’s what’s that Murphy’s Law, like if it could happen, it will, it will happen, or whatever. Where I used to say that about myself all the time, and I was the most accident-prone person my entire.. it started with me just being clumsy, being told I was accident prone. I took that in, and that became a part of my personality and identity, and I was.. I was just that. And what’s crazy is, I don’t remember where, but I decided to test a theory, and I started saying I’m a ninja. I will catch things before they fall. I will, you know, and I started like, like, no, I’m going to, because I did catch something once, like it fell, and I caught it before it hit the ground, and I didn’t even think about it. I’m like, no, no, no, I’m going to be a ninja from now on. The irony that I, I, I became a freakin ninja, and now my husband, like, he’s like, ‘Do you do that with a knife? I’m like, ‘No, I step back if I drop a knife, I don’t try to catch it. Yeah, but you know, all being accident prone, and this and that, it.. I stopped being that. So, there’s something to that. There is something powerful,

Debra Keirce 1:31:03

Angela. We are ninjas,

Angela Agosto 1:31:06

Yes, and they didn’t tell me that until I was older. I wasn’t just till a few years ago that my family, my husband and I was like, ‘What? I didn’t know that.’ So yeah, I’m now.. I do make it a point to improve things, and I’m more careful.

Olya Konell 1:31:19

yeah, it really is, because the subconscious part of our brain acts before we’ve had a time to process, like it, like we’re just stepping out of the way, or if there’s a manhole, you’ll just kind of jump over, and you know, you’ll anyways, we’ve gone down some tangents, you guys. Thank you so much for holding on, I just, Gail says, “Thank you. This was very enlightening. Great discussion today from Karen. Thank you all so much. And Oren says, “A great friend of mine, who is a pianist, told me a secret to success was that eventually everyone else quit, and he didn’t. I love that. Yeah, thank you so much. I’ve learned a lot, says Monica. I have to go, so I’ll share any, any feedback anyone wants to share with Debra. Go ahead and just throw it in the chat, right? Right now, I’ll give you guys just a few more seconds as we wave our goodbyes. Feel free to reply to your webinar emails and let me know if you have any thoughts, and I’ll pass them on, and feel free to engage with the article when it goes out, and Deborah, thank you so much. Yeah,

Angela Agosto 1:32:23

Yeah, thank you Debra. On our next session will be with TimothyTyler, and then also for our FASO member webinars, it’ll be June 4th.

Olya Konell 1:32:33

yeah, that’s for just for FASO members,

Olya Konell 1:32:35

Thank you, thank you, and I hope you have a wonderful, creative rest of your day.

Angela Agosto 1:32:40

Thank you, Debra. Bye, bye.

Debra Keirce 1:32:42

Thank you, guys.

Olya Konell 1:32:43

Oh, where’s my end button? Oh, sorry.

Angela Agosto 1:32:46

The little red person walking out the door, it says leave

Olya Konell 1:32:49

end and okay,

Angela Agosto 1:32:50

red door, on the right bottom corner

Olya Konell 1:32:52

Bye.

Creatively,

Clint Watson

FASOFounder & Creativity Fanatic

PS - This email may be too long for some email programs. We suggest you watch/read it on the web by clicking the button below. Here are some Helpful Links & Resources from the webinar. We’re also sharing Shana Levenson’s special FASO affiliate link, join FASO today for just $99 for your first year of membership, click here.

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Read or Watch on the Web

Transcript:

Olya Konell 00:00

Welcome everybody to The FASO Show. You made it through. You survived. Normally, we have a much larger attendance, and I’m sure it has to do with the fact that we switch things up. So there’s always a little bit of like, hey, you know, email went to spam. So thank you for coming. We will be sending the recording out next week FASO customers get it in their the Marketing Center, in their dashboard. Or you can be subscribed to the sub stack newsletter The FASO Way, and you can get it there too. Or you can go visit that site and just click on it and watch it. So if you have to leave early, that’s where you will find it. And today, we have a very special guest. Can’t talk Shana Levinson, we had some technical issues, and so if at any point in time her video drops, we’re just gonna hang out and wait for her to pop back. Yeah, I like she mentioned, the power went out. So she is improvising and using her cell phone through her computer to get logged in. So a quick little bit I like to do about FASO. FASO, we are a website company. We we have artists. Can build a website through FASO, kind of like a Squarespace or Wix, but it’s specific to artists, and I’m going to be dropping some links in the chat if you’re curious about FASO, we’re actually sharing shayna’s affiliate links. So through Shana, you can get FASO for a year for $99, use her special link - https://l.faso.com/104 you can also do a 30 day free trial, and you can just go to FASO.com and learn a little bit more if you’re curious. But let’s get let’s get started. So welcome, Shana. Thank you for Thank you.

Shana Levenson 01:44

Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah.

Olya Konell 01:47

I thank you for our survey.

Shana Levenson 01:50

Thank you. Yeah, I know I just opened up my windows, which actually anybody that studied with me or knows has heard me talk, I actually keep my windows closed. They’re blackout shades, because my studio has daylight corrected light bulbs, so the light is consistent at all time. So I’m, I’m grateful to actually have these large windows for today, so that there’s light for you guys to be able to see me while Yeah, is out

Olya Konell 02:14

here absolutely and interesting that you say that totally not even the list of anchor questions that I had, but I hate, I love, I have a love, hate relationship with paintings that you’ve been working on for like, we’re working on something over a long duration of time, and if you’re using daylight, you come in the next morning and you’re like, No, that’s not right, because you painted it last night. And so that’s awesome that you have that controlled environment to be able to do that, which clearly is noticeable, because when I look at your hands and, like, when you do your veins, you know, and those little tendons and details, I’m like, dang, that is, like, consistently accurate, because that’s what always would mess me up, as skin tones, as time, as the as the lighting changes in the studio space.

Shana Levenson 02:59

So, yeah, I don’t know why people like to fight the light. I get the romance of it and the history of it, but for me, I just want consistency. Because if I’m in a pain at six in the morning, I want the light to be the same as if I’m painting at like, six o’clock at night. So it just stays the same.

Olya Konell 03:13

I love that. Do you have a recommendation for what bulbs that you use

Shana Levenson 03:16

or is, yeah, there I, you know, I the I need to look up the name of it, the T 90s, or we hadn’t. We might have had to get a different type. But they are, like, they’re basically warehouse, those lights up here, yeah, you can see, like, right here, yeah. So I have six of them, and the light that the light is just like, the perfect temperature for the paintings. They don’t provide, they don’t give any glare when I’m working, which is always tough with like Windows, you know, because I’m going to be working today in the dark, and so I’m gonna have to figure out how to not get glare on my painting while I’m painting today

Olya Konell 03:53

in the studio. Oh, my God, ideal. Yeah, yeah, no, that is a really good tip. And I guess I’m going to dive into my first question that I had for you. And just a quick heads up to everybody, this is a Q A session, so I want y’all to ask your burning questions. Feel free to drop them into the Q amp a box. You can also share them in the chat. This webinar isn’t you know, in on any specific topic, it is to connect you with Shayna, to learn from her, to figure out her teaching style, and see if you know this is somebody that you know you want to take a workshop with, or maybe you want to read her newsletter, or follow her on social media or whatever, to kind of learn from her. Because artists, we have a long history of learning from those that came before us. I mean, that’s how artists learn, and whether they go to professional Academy, or or or or not, they continue learning. You know, when they get out and they and artists just, that’s just what we do. So this is just our way of doing that in 2026

Shana Levenson 04:57

yeah, I hope I’m always learning. I’m, you know, pushing myself, because. Is, you can never learn too much, and you can always change things up. It’s always fun to find, like, new paint colors, new styles, yeah,

Olya Konell 05:07

new ways of doing something, or Yeah, being absolutely I love that. So we didn’t do an official introduction, but I would love for you just to share a little bit about who you are and what you do, and we’ll do,

Shana Levenson 05:20

yeah, I’m Shana Levinson. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico with my husband, David Casson, and my two teenagers. Actually, one of my teenagers just left. He’s 16. He’s in boarding school now in New Jersey, but I have my 17 year old, my 17 year old girl here, and two dogs and two cats. So we have a full house here. I’m originally from Austin, Texas. My undergrad is from the University of Texas in fashion design. I originally wanted to work for Donna Karan or Alexander McQueen. I just loved elegant styles and different textures, which I started. If you follow my work, you could see that I love fabric and jewelry and all that kind of stuff within my paintings. Eventually, though I did eventually, once we moved to Albuquerque, me and my ex husband, I started once my son was one years old, I started taking classes at the Academy of Art in San Francisco over correspondence. Previous to that, all of my art was self taught. So when I found this program, I was like, This is so perfect, because I could be at home with my kids, and I can learn online. And the program that they have was really in depth. The teachers were interactive. We were filming ourselves. It was just they were really great and teaching us how to work at, you know, at a distance, and so that really guided me into my direction of portraiture and realism. And learning online was actually a huge guide for me when covid hit, because then I started teaching online, and everything I learned from the Academy of Art and how they taught online really helped how I taught online during covid, so that was really helpful. In the midst of me getting my degree, my master’s, I got divorced, and then started teaching little kids art classes. Finished my master’s, and then gradually started teaching teenagers, and then eventually adults, and got picked up in my first gallery in 2018 in Santa Fe and started slowly selling my work and increasing my prices and realizing the value of social media, because you really can have the ability to connect with a broader audience that can’t see your work necessarily in person, but want to collect your work. So found a really incredible collector base through social media. And yeah, I’m able to travel with my husband and teach workshops all over and paint full time. And as you all know, it’s not an easy job, because you never know when your next sale is going to come or but the that little bit of hustle and that little bit of fear, I guess, is what pushes me to work that much harder. So yeah,

Olya Konell 08:09

I love that. I heard something saying urgency is a great motivator, and I agree urgency is a great motivator, indeed, yeah, yeah. And I love your story, because it’s like, every single day we talk to artists that are like, they’re at the point where you were, when you were, you know, before you got your first gallery, right? They’re at that point. Maybe they’re teaching something, maybe they’re doing something. Maybe they’re getting some orders here and there for commissions. Maybe, you know, they sold something at a fair here and there. So so many of you guys that are listening are at that point. And one thing I need to make a point of that’s not age specific, like the art path is not linear, and you’ll see artists that peak early in life. And, you know, wait, peak early in life, you’ll see artists that peak later in life. So doesn’t matter how old you are, because I follow some amazing older artists. If there’s any older artists in our audience that just exploded overnight, you know, in their 70s, in their 80s, because they’re still doing it, because they have not given up. So, you know, I really want to drive that point home.

Shana Levenson 09:20

So because, Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah, I teach so many students of all age ranges, of people who’ve, like, spent their time raising children and then later in life, eventually, finally, get back into creating art again. And so it’s never too late, you know, we’re all in a different place in our path. Because I always think that I started later, even though I was always drawing and painting my Well, not really painting, drawing mostly my whole life, and then teaching myself how to paint in the beginning, I just felt like I kind of came into the art world in an unconventional way, not necessarily the academic path that a lot of well known artists come through. So I just want to be that kind of voice for people. I apologize for my dog. I want to be the voice for people who maybe get their get become an artist in a unique way.

Olya Konell 10:09

Absolutely, yeah, because there isn’t the especially in today’s world with technology and the ability to learn online, close my door. Oh, that’s

Shana Levenson 10:21

sorry, guys, muscle the dogs, dogs,

Olya Konell 10:26

and do you still teach on online, or more of your in more in

Shana Levenson 10:30

person now, but I mentor, I have meant mentees all over the world, Australia, wow. Some people I did for years, and you know, I have a couple of mentees that were that are now showing in major galleries and selling their work, and it just really kind of neat to see them thriving from me just pushing them in direction. You know, it’s that one little thing that you can tell somebody like, Hey, you just do this or this or this, and then they can go off on their own. So I love being able to encourage, and it’s mostly women that I mentor, but encourage people to find their path, you know what I mean, and keep pushing them forward. So, yeah, I mentor, I do a few online workshops. Maybe I think the last one I did was a hand painting online demo, and that’s a recorded one that I have on my Big Cartel page. But other than that, I just love connecting and teaching in person.

Olya Konell 11:28

Okay, and so your Big Cartel page, if I was to find it, I’m just it

Shana Levenson 11:33

would be recorded. If you go to print, you can go to Prince, you know, on there,

Olya Konell 11:41

it will be in Yeah,

Shana Levenson 11:43

you can go on there, yeah, okay, workshops, workshops. See teaching, or see original workshop at the very bottom. Go to the bottom.

Olya Konell 11:57

I just can’t see Perfect, okay, yeah, I wanted to grab that and share it.

Shana Levenson 12:02

So, yeah, so you can see, like, all the bottom ones I’ve recorded. So, like, that’s really a lot balloons, how to paint dark skin, how to draw. So all those are previously recorded that I did during covid. So those are awesome people that purchase those. They’ll get they’ll get three different or they’ll get a couple YouTube links, and they get to see the whole demo, and keep the demo, and they get the reference as well.

Olya Konell 12:26

And you have, and going back to what you were saying about loving, loving fabrics, that is such like, it’s all over, like, texture and fabric, I could just tell you’re drawn to that, you know. Plus you have an amazing, beautiful sense of fashion yourself. You’re always like, so put together in such a beautiful, unique way. But definitely in your work, like it’s, it’s just amazing how you do lace I, I can’t, that’s

Shana Levenson 12:53

the one, yeah, that’s the one fabric workshop I’ve taught, which next weekend I’m traveling to Monterey, Mexico to teach a lace painting workshop. Oh, wow.

Olya Konell 13:01

That’s That’s cool, yeah, yeah.

Shana Levenson 13:03

And that class is filled up, so I’m excited to I’ve never been to Monterey. I’ve heard it’s beautiful. In October, I taught a lace painting workshop in Mexico City. So yeah, I’m excited to go to Mexico in a

Olya Konell 13:15

different place. So yeah. And if anybody wants to see more of shana’s work. If you go to her website, you can click on collections, and I’m just going to share that link again. You can also check out her Instagram for kind of like, what she’s working on in the studio, which, like you said, you have a lot of stuff that still needs to pop up on your side,

Shana Levenson 13:35

but yeah, yeah, I know I need to update my FASO. So, yeah, no.

Olya Konell 13:40

Um, so So this, everything we’re talking about right now, is your office actually on the topic of my second anchor question, which was your, you know, your offerings. So we’ve shared those links. And then as far as like, is there anything special and exciting this year that maybe you wanted to highlight that we can point folks to. I mean, the Urbina

Shana Levenson 14:04

workshop, and you know, is our Mo it’s been the most fun workshop. But I love all the workshops we teach and all the ones I’m offering very actually, which I think is really neat, because David and I are teaching together in the Ozarks at our friend Chelsea Nicole Contemporary Gallery. She’s hosting a workshop there, and we taught there last year, and she just puts together such a great workshop. But that workshop is painting from the photo workshop. And I think something that’s really valuable is teaching artists how to take good photo reference, what to look for, what are the pitfalls of working from a photo, and how to create realistic paintings. And so that workshop specifically, we bring all of our camera lighting equipment. Chelsea has a great printer. We talk about how to print and do a little bit of light Photoshop talk. And everyone paints a self portrait, which I think is a really important thing to learn, just to be able to see yourself in a really. Beautiful way, and tell a story with painting the self portrait. And then Urbino is really unique, because we are also are working from a photo, but Dave and I are providing the reference, and we Urbino is the birthplace of Raphael, and so we go and do tours and have a lot of great food, great wine, but we are doing workshops. The painting is inspired by like Raphael pose, so we’re going to use models that are, you know, have the that feel of like a Raphael painting, yeah. And we go through that whole process of painting from a photo reference. Also talk about the pitfalls from that. So we provide all of that. And the one perk about taking mine and mine David’s workshops is that Vasari, the paint company, they sponsor all of our workshops so that they provide all of the paint for us. Wow. So students never have to travel with paint for any of our workshops, and they get to try out all the bisari paint because we have an extensive paint list, because we aren’t a limited palette type of couple, especially me, I love like, the more paint the merrier. You know, I love playing with paint, so I don’t expect the students to have all the paint, but I think it’s neat for them to be able to try out the bisari paint and choose what really suits them to add into their collection of paints. So, yeah, so you just have to show up with your palette and your panel, and then and paint brushes, obviously, and then we bring all the paint. But Urbino is really neat because everything’s inclusive. So you paid a fee, and it includes your place of stay and all the food. And so they put together such a unique experience, because we go and do really neat tours, like half the day, and then paint half the day. And then some days, we paint all day, and then we just go and have pizza at a vineyard. So I can’t, I can’t express enough how unique the experience is, because it’s also not really super touristy, so it feels more authentic, as opposed to we used to teach in Rome, which was so busy and so compact, and we kind of felt exhausted by the end of the day every day, and then this is just more invigorating. And we stay in the same place, so we get to really know each other and the same the hotels. That was really, yeah, it’s a lot of fun, so I’m excited for that one.

Olya Konell 17:24

Yeah, it sounds absolutely amazing. And honestly, that is such a good

Shana Levenson 17:29

deal, yeah? And the neat thing, yeah? And the neat thing about this workshop also, is that they people can bring their partners or sisters or kids, and they probably teenagers, because probably be harder with smaller kids, but they have excursions for the people that aren’t painting. So for those that like to travel with their spouses, they the spouses have something to do all day while we’re painting, and then we come together again for like, lunch or dinner or whatever. So that’s I think, something that I think is really unique about this workshop is that it provides you to travel with a partner that is not you know. And I know that I have a student who’s in Australia, and she’s coming with her best friend and her mom. So her best friend and her mom aren’t going to be taking the class, but she’s taking the class. So we still have some spots left in that, in that workshop, and it’s going to be really a fun experience.

Olya Konell 18:21

Yeah, it absolutely looks like it, and I, I love the thought of it is true your environment and who you’re around, and the people that natively live there and work there, that slower pace, that energy, it totally kind of rubs off on you, and it allows you to have that more authentic Italian kind of experience. So nice. Yeah, I’ve

Shana Levenson 18:41

never eaten so much cheese in my life.

Olya Konell 18:43

And you probably like, what they say about Europe is, you come back, you’re like, I walked. I mean, I lost weight. I ate so much bread, yes,

Shana Levenson 18:52

butter, and we just walked everywhere. The food’s so natural. I mean, it’s fantastic. And Piero, who puts the workshop together, he is so lovely. And he he’s like, our group, he’s like, I’ve never served so much wine to a group of people, because last year, the people that took our workshop, they loved Italian wine. So it was just, like, a really fun experience. And you don’t have to be a drinker, but it just makes it, you

Olya Konell 19:17

know, yeah, but, well, yeah, the fun, the fun, I think fact that I’ve learned about European wines in general is most here in the US, they have to be labeled organic and this and that, yeah, there it’s like, by default, they that’s just how things are. So people feel better, so you could, yeah,

Shana Levenson 19:32

no, it’s fun. It’s a fun experience.

Olya Konell 19:35

That’s I’m looking forward to that. And I shared, and I shared the link with everybody. We will also include all of the links that we are sharing in the with the video when it comes out, so if you miss something, you will have it. Yeah. And the

Shana Levenson 19:48

one thing I want to like express about our workshops is our workshops are for all level. I think that people get intimidated because the style seems super advanced, but the way we’re communicating about how we mix color. Is very all level type. So we want to encourage, I mean, I’ve had students who’ve never painted an oil, who’ve only drawn or just new to it, and so we want it to be inviting for all levels.

Olya Konell 20:14

Yeah, I love that. And both of you are so talented you have when it comes to portraits. David did a whole series of the Holocaust survivors, survivors, yeah, and he is just, it’s just amazing. He is so good at capturing emotion and those stories. So this is definitely an amazing opportunity to kind of learn from two of the best. So I told my husband, I was like, You have no idea who I get to talk to today, and I’m like, it’s gonna be fun. So yeah, do you? And there’s a the other

Shana Levenson 20:48

workshop I just wanted to talk about is the one I’m doing in December, hand painting. So I’ve taught hand painting before, but this one, it’s in Albuquerque. It’s where I where I live, not it’s not gonna be in my house, but it’s at a studio space. It’s an art supply store, and underneath they have a studio space. It’s called artisan, and I’m teaching hand painting, but this is the first workshop I’ve taught where people are painting their own hands, because I taught hand painting before, and I’ve provided the reference. But here I’m going to talk to everybody about how to take good photo reference with hands, because I think hands can be really challenging to photograph when painting, and how to express emotion with painting hands and all the pitfalls of bad photo reference of hands. And then everyone will be painting their own hands. They can have one hand or both hands, or hold an object or whatever. You know, if they want to just focus on learning how to paint hands, they can just do the simple hand pose. Or if they feel like they’re a little bit more advanced and they want to tell a story by holding like an object, like in a family heirloom, or something that’s important to them, or even, you know, whatever the case may be, it’s going to be the first time I’ve taught this kind of workshop, which I’m really excited for, because I think hands are just as expressive as facial features. Yes, more. Yeah, yeah. Because you can’t hide your age on your hands. You know what I’m saying, your hands are going to age. Can’t Botox your hands, so they will. And I feel like, as your, I think your hands just it’s funny, because I just painted, I painted my daughter a couple years ago, and her hands were down, but I was like, oh my god, she has my hands. And I think that’s a really beautiful thing to get a sense of.

Olya Konell 22:23

So, yeah, and there’s definitely we don’t realize. I mean, I just had this realization while you were talking about expressing emotion, we don’t realize what our hands do sometimes when we are experiencing various emotions, you know, we’re because people will tend to do things with their hands. They’ll they’ll clasp them when they’re nervous. When you’re at the dentist and they’re drilling, you tense them up. You know, there’s all this stuff that you do. And so it’s interesting. And, you know, we get so much attention is put on the facial expressions. And hands are hard. They can be challenging, because when funky position you have to, you know, I’m like, okay, don’t paint the hand. Paint the dark spot.

Shana Levenson 23:08

Yeah, no. And I want to make it more approachable. I want people to feel comfortable, you know, fresh color. And so we will go over the anatomy, because I think understanding the anatomy of the hands is really important to understand painting hands.

Olya Konell 23:20

Yeah, and just out of curiosity, what’s your because you have such a beautiful way of capturing, like, the veins. You know, I have veiny hands, so I’m always, you know, yeah, how would I even do that? Do you is that? Do you do, like an underpainting with,

Shana Levenson 23:36

I do the of the vein, yeah, the vein? No. So I do like, a really intense color of the vein, like this turquoise light that I love from Sennelier, or like a blue and then I kind of glaze into it, so that way I can kind of soften it back. So it’s almost like building up, yeah, because

Olya Konell 23:53

that’s because it’s so hard if you’re layering that on top, or building it towards the top. But that makes complete sense, because then you can, kind of, like you said, you know, crazy, yeah, you weave the

Shana Levenson 24:02

color on top of it, Yeah, beautiful.

Olya Konell 24:05

I love that so. And then, you know, I want to talk a little bit about marketing and getting yourself out there. So early on, you said that you started, you know, you did teaching, and then you got into your first gallery. How did you get into your first gallery? Do you have any advice for an artist that was like, I Yeah.

Shana Levenson 24:27

I mean, one thing I want to say, first and foremost, is that you’re being in the gallery is different. It’s not like it used to be. I don’t think it’s the end all be all. I don’t think your success relies on being in a gallery. I think the nice thing about being in a gallery is that people can people can come and see your work in a space. But I want to make sure that artists advocate for themselves, because galleries can take advantage of artists, and you need to make sure that you feel like you’re being respected. You want to be in a space that you feel like your voice is being heard. So because you. A gallery would be lucky to have your art. I I feel like you can show your work online. You can be your own advocate. You can push your work yourself, but you a gallery should be feeling very fortunate to have your work, because we’re the ones spending all the hours in the studio. You know what I mean? They’re basically paying the rent for you to hang your wall, you’re painting on their wall, but if they’re not going to push your work and they’re not going to advocate for you, then you know, you want to make sure you’re advocating for yourself. So that’s first and foremost. But yeah, so getting into my first gallery, I lived near Santa Fe, and so David and I just decided we were going to spend a weekend in Santa Fe and just check out galleries. And I passed out a couple cards to galleries, just saying, you know him, an artist. I wasn’t even asking to be represented by them. I just was passing out my my card. And one of the galleries got back to me is like, Hey, I’d love to come to your studio and and see some New York. And so he came, he picked up a couple pieces, sold a couple of pieces right away. And then I started showing with them fairly for a few years. And then we and this is what I’m saying about speaking up for yourself, because I was I pushed my work a lot online, through social media, and they’re kind of an old school gallery. They don’t do a lot of advertising. They don’t push your work very much. And so I found myself bringing them all the collectors. There was a point when, like, I was probably bringing them 90% of the collectors, and people were buying the work online. They weren’t even finding the work in the gallery, and I was giving the gallery 50% of the sale. And there was a point when I was like, this is no longer a fair relationship. And so I went and met with them and said, I want to get 60% of these sales. If I’m going to bring you the collectors, I want to have 60% and they said no. And so I left the gallery, and I just felt like it wasn’t really respectful that if I was going to bring them so many art sales, that they weren’t going to provide any incentive for me. And I think that that was something that was like, I learned a lesson from because I’ve still been able to maintain my sales just as equally, if not more, so through social media. And I still show, and, you know, I show in New York, I show in a gallery in New York, a few pieces I just got picked up in a new a brand, brand new gallery in Seattle. So I’m like, riding in on the very beginning and hoping this gallery is successful. I really loved the guy’s personality and the openness I could have with him. My only complaint is shipping artwork. Oh, my God, that’s the thing, another thing you have to take note of, because shipping artwork can be really expensive, and so that’s something you have to take into consideration when getting into a gallery, but I think that you want to make sure, like, when you you have a like minded personality with the gallery owner, because I think that’s a really important that are gonna be like family. You want to feel like you’re supporting one another.

Olya Konell 27:53

So hypothetically, you know, if that gallery has said, You know what, that’s fair, we want to support you, let’s adjust that percentage. You probably would have stayed with them for sure, yeah, yeah. So I and then they

Shana Levenson 28:04

started trying to tell me what to paint, and then I was like, we’re done.

Olya Konell 28:09

Now you’re like, the controlling, you know, person in a relationship, like, yeah, no, that is such good insight. And for artists that are getting started, also a thought that popped in. I almost feel like that first gallery was a valuable lesson, but also a stepping stone into learning what you you know, what you don’t want. So that way

Shana Levenson 28:32

you were able. I showed them for a long time. I probably showed with them for about five years, and we had a great relationship at the beginning, but then I was like, I really needed to stand up for myself. And so, you know, I did nice. I kept maintaining my art sales, because majority of the paintings that I was selling through them was through, you know, Instagram.

Olya Konell 28:53

Yeah, there’s a I have noticed, I can’t think of the names at the top of my head. There’s a couple artists that I’ll see on Instagram their gallery will make the video, like a really nice reel or really nice post, they’ll post and they’ll collab with them. So I am seeing some galleries realize the value of social media, and they’re helping artists do that, versus the other way, versus the other way around, totally. And in this case, it was this amazing older artist. I’m like, she’s just adorable. She’s just the cutest thing in the world. And she’s painting this massive painting, you know, like, oh my gosh, I love that. And yeah, so there are, it’s just like, it’s like, dating or, like, a friendship or relationship, sure,

Shana Levenson 29:35

yeah, yeah. No, that my friend, the student the workshop, Dave and I are gonna teach in the Ozarks. So Chelsea Nicole also has a gallery. Well, it is her gallery, Chelsea Nicole contemporary, and they are very great at like, you know, she hired somebody just for social media, yeah, because it’s just pushing the work and making people see it. So they make really great reels on each individual artist. They make sure they’re you. Know, really showing, showcasing who they’re, who they’re showing. And so I have a few pieces with her, and I love it, because I just feel like they’re really working. You know, she’s a newer gallery. She’s probably been open for about a year and a half, two years, and I and she’s really working hard at pushing the artists. And she’s an artist herself. And so I think it’s really great that she’s like, advocating for other people.

Olya Konell 30:22

I love that. And one of the things that we always tell artists is there’s multiple ways of achieving getting your work out there. Because some people might only want to go the gallery route, and they’ll put all their energy into that and bypass maybe they’ll have some they might have a social media account, but that might not be their thing. And I’ve seen a lot of artists be very successful with getting their work out there, online, on their own, you know. So I do feel like it’s like a matter of finding what you know. You know yourself better than anybody, so put your energy into what you do best. But for those artists that are curious or want to do more of their own marketing online, getting themselves out there, the number one complaint that I often hear is I don’t you know people are timid or scared or shy, or they don’t know they’re they don’t think they’re good at making a video. What advice or insight, or because I feel like you’re the queen of pep talks. What advice?

Shana Levenson 31:28

Yeah, I would say, like, I would say, first of all, you don’t have to show yourself. Like, I know people are shy at like, having themselves being filmed, or whatever. You don’t have to be. You are the face of your art, but like, you want your art to be what’s seen, you know? So I would say, first, make sure what you’re posting. The quality of the image looks good because you it’s the first image people are say it’s someone who’s never seen your art before, and they see your Instagram and it’s a bad photo, and that’s like the first reaction they’re going to have towards what you’re posting, you want to make sure what you’re posting really represents the work. So first and foremost, post high quality stuff. Make sure that you edit it correctly, or even if it’s with the iPhone, make sure it’s just a good photo. Don’t just throw something on there. But I would say start off slowly, because I actually one of my mentees. She’s mentoring with me specifically because she hates posting, and she has a hard time posting. She she posts once a month, and I was like, You’re not going to get your work seen if you’re only posting once a month. So we worked on her posting once a week, and because she really just didn’t want to, she felt like it was bragging. But it’s not like, what you’re doing, this is your career. This is like, imagine somebody else is talking about your work. So write it as if you wanted to hear how somebody else was going to talk about your work, you know. Draw them in a little bit post close ups, you know. So plan it out if need be, and make sure you’re like, it could be simple. It could just be like, Hey, look at this little moment, you know, I’m spending. And because I don’t, I don’t do like, I’m not a I don’t like to spend a lot of time creating videos. I’m not like, I just, I’m gonna post something quickly, because I’ve literally worked, you know, eight hours, and I’m not gonna spend two of those hours filming something, you know, because that’s not the work is what means everything this is like for these videos, either when I was teaching online, I record. So I will do that. I will spend time. I’m actually after this painting. I’m going to be doing, working on this Tondo of one of a smoke and mask part of that series, yeah, and I’m going to be, yeah, I’m doing a Tondo of something similar, and then in different pose, and I’m going to film the entire painting process, because I am doing a podcast in July, and they want to have a because I’m an ambassador for artifacts, okay, which is the panel company, and so they want to see me working on their on their medium, so it would on their substrate, since I use them as my substrate, which is the substrate is like, what I paint on, which is aluminum panel, which I have, yeah, don’t be

Olya Konell 34:10

shy, yeah. And I’ve noticed you have just a combination. Sometimes it’s a photo, sometimes it’s you painting, and you’ve what I love that I want to point out. Guys, don’t be afraid to post the same painting in different angles multiple times, like, because some person might might see this, and they’re drawn into this particular image because of that angle, because the attention is being drawn to the hand, you know, or Yeah, so don’t be shy.

Shana Levenson 34:37

And I have a really great story that has to do with even posting just close up. So probably in 2017 I think I started painting lace in 2017 and maybe it was 2016 something around there I started painting lace, and I did a post of just the crop. The full figure. And it got such a reaction that it made me think I should do an entire series of just cropped in on the figure lace. And that’s how my entire series of my little 11 by 14 cropped references, or cropped paintings of lace dresses, came to fruition in 2018 I think I started doing it 2019 and I just started painting, I mean, and those were incredibly successful, because I was like, oh, people are having this reaction to this image. Even though the whole painting is larger, it shows the full figure. And, you know, my audience is telling me, Oh, my God, I love this cropped image. What a cool thing. And I thought, hey, you know what I’m gonna I’m gonna jump on that. I mean,

Shana Levenson 35:58

old references. I just started messing around with all the crops, and from that, I created an entire series of new work with different angles of lace, and that’s what I use for like my lace painting workshops, because we’re purely focusing on the skin underneath lace and the fabric on top. And so utilize your audience. So if you post something, a cropped image of a painting, and you’re like, Oh my God. People love this kind of cropped section or something. Maybe play with that push that you know you just never know what your audience is telling you that they want more of. So trust in that. Also, speaking of like selling online, make sure if someone reaches out to you about buying something, flag their Instagram message, so that way you can find them again and reach back out to them. Always reach out to people

Olya Konell 36:44

I love. Okay, I’d like to talk about that.

Shana Levenson 36:49

Yeah, my mom’s a best business woman. She always told me, you know, the only way you know, obviously, you don’t want to be annoying. But like, if someone collects something, they’ll always be a repeat collector that at least, most, a majority of the time. But make sure you’re reaching out, because people aren’t going to come to you. They do reach out and ask you about a painting. Hey, keep contacting them. Send in work that you have, because, you know, I would say probably 70% of the time when I keep sending work out to people on Instagram that have reached out to me, I sell a piece, which is a huge percentage.

Olya Konell 37:19

Yeah, and a lot of people don’t even respond to the comments about their paintings. Like, oh my gosh, I love this. I’m upset. Or somebody will like, I’ve seen so many artists posts, and there’s people in the comments, and it’s what an amazing opportunity is. Like, Hey, I just sent you a few more photos. Or, like, hey, check your DMS. Like, I you know so.

Shana Levenson 37:41

Or when you post, let them know, let people know it’s available. Yes, you know, say, hey, this piece is available. Message for inquiries. You know what I mean? I also offer for me, I also for payment plans for people, which makes it more doable if they want to collect a piece that’s a little bit out of their price range, but they really want it, you know,

Olya Konell 38:05

do you have an in?

Shana Levenson 38:06

I don’t. I just haven’t been mommy, okay, yeah, I’m I send them a contract, like we have a contract all that kind of stuff. But they just have them Venmo me, then, that way I have do the contract, and then I have like, an invoice that I send. So I always have an invoice you want to make sure you have, like, proof that you sold, sold the work to them, so that way you have that for, you know, tax reasons, which is

Olya Konell 38:26

enough fun stuff. And then do you just sorry, this is fascinating because I was curious. I’m curious how people have done this, because people have asked about payment plans. Do you ship the painting after they’ve paid off the after? Yeah, okay,

Shana Levenson 38:39

yeah, depending on the paintings, depending on where they’re located, and depending on the size of the painting. Like, if it’s a small painting, I’ll take care of shipping and packaging for larger pieces. And if they’re further away, they pay for shipping and packaging

Olya Konell 38:53

and packaging, and then you can quote it based on where they’re at. And you know, maybe they have a preferred ship, or they want to use, or whatever. So that’s good

Shana Levenson 39:01

to know, but I also have a really good shipper, so I’ll have them just contact my shipper so they can. I’m not like, I knock the middle man out and I’m like, okay, here you, they’ll contact you and they’ll tell you, like, that way they can choose how they want it to be shipped.

Olya Konell 39:14

Yeah, absolutely. But that’s such a great idea. So if you’re an artist and you’re afraid to raise your prices, but maybe you know your prices are already in a good place, but you’re like, I need to raise them because it’s time and you’re afraid of losing potential sales. Have that option of available now, do you tell people, is that something you have on your website? Or do you do that in the interactions you have? No, I tell them in interactions, yeah, interactions, okay, yeah. I love it

Shana Levenson 39:40

immediately too, because I was, yeah, I’ll say, to say, hey, you know, thanks for note. I just say, Hey, thanks for reaching out. This is the cost. I also take payment plans, if that, if that makes it easier, so I immediately put it up front, like that’s offensive. Maybe they can pay it fully, you know, note. But if.

Olya Konell 40:00

Them. So sorry, we’re we’re having a little bit of static, not static, but like occasional lag for the first time. So bear with us. So I just want to make sure that I heard that correctly. So right off the bat, you tell them that it is available. Here’s the price. And by the way, I do have like, you know, and I artists, if you are uncomfortable with having those financial conversations. So many people are and so many successful artists all say the same thing. You go straight to closing the sale. Hey, can I wrap that up for you? Or here’s the price. You know, these are my payment options, including payment plans. I think if artists practice in front of a mirror, maybe they’ll be better at having that conversation. At least you get to type

Shana Levenson 40:41

it up. You’re not saying it up. You’re not saying

Olya Konell 40:42

it to them in person. That’s true. Yeah, at least you can type it which makes it so much easier when it so one of the things you talked about is you, you guys do teach people how to properly photograph things, because I think taking pictures of things for an artist is so important in 2026 even if you’re not taking pictures to paint your own references, but to be able to to share pictures in your newsletter on your social media accounts. Do you guys have any workshops where recorded ones, where you go into that, or are you planning on doing that again, where you can kind of we did

Shana Levenson 41:17

during covid on my website, on the Big Cartel website, I have a how to take photo reference. So we, we go through, we send a PDF that we put together of, yeah, all the different types of cameras, all the different types of lighting, and how to Yep, and how to take good photo reference for artists.

Olya Konell 41:37

And do you sell a recording of this at all? Yes, you do, yeah, okay, that’s actually really good. So it’s $75 for and

Shana Levenson 41:44

you get to keep the video, and you get a PDF of

Olya Konell 41:49

everything we spoke about, everything so helpful, because I

Shana Levenson 41:52

feel Scott Jones. Scott Jones is on here. I just saw there’s a comment I agree with Shannon galleries and advocating for yourself. My ears perked up on Seattle. I will be watching. She’s an amazing entrepreneur. Oh, thanks, Scott. I know Scott. He’s a sweetheart. I just saw him at portrait society.

Olya Konell 42:09

That’s awesome. Yeah, no, I Yeah. I’ll have to keep it on that, because I’m only three hours away from Seattle, Washington area. So I know, yeah. So I have

Shana Levenson 42:19

a solo show, actually, for August 2027 Okay, at the gallery, it’s called Lost in composition, and it’s right on the waterfront. So yeah, and I just sent my newest smoke piece, that big smoke one. I just sent that

Olya Konell 42:35

out there. So, oh, so they have that

Shana Levenson 42:37

I’m excited to be in the new space.

Olya Konell 42:38

Yeah, I’ll have to send you the reel I made. I found a piece of music that has a breath sound in it, and I overlay, yeah, oh, cool with that painting and like, different I was like, oh, anyway, so we didn’t get a chance to use it, but I can’t wait to hear it. I’m gonna send it to you. Because I was like, Oh, this speaks to me. Somebody asks in the Q and A, so if you have questions, throw them in the Q A, what shipper do you use? And you said you have a shipper. So how does that work?

Shana Levenson 43:07

So there’s a company here called Peli, and they package and ship out artwork. Okay, so I will, if I don’t have boxes here, I’ll take it, and then if the like, so sometimes like, he’ll send through UPS or FedEx. So he’s just a company that sends, you know, via either. But if, like, somebody wants it to be much cheaper, I’ll do USPS, so I’ll have him package it so it’s at least packaged well, and then send it USPS. But what I love about them also is, like I just sent, in March, I sent eight paintings to Seattle, and so they built something to make it a little bit more like they they figured out a way, you know what I mean, to make it a little bit more affordable to send all those pieces because they varied in size. Wow. So it’s good to have, yeah, and there’s also, like, they also have companies that you can hire to drive paintings. So, like, when I do my solo show, I’ll probably hire a person to pick up and drive the paintings, which I think is probably way cheaper than shipping it. Yeah, so different couriers that can take your work, but yeah, you have to really think about that. Like when you’re applying to, like a juried exhibition, and say Best of Show is $400 that you win $400 for Best of Show, and it costs you $250 to ship your artwork out there. And best getting Best of Show, obviously, the odds are, are. You never know, because, yeah, but you really have to consider how much it costs to ship your work. But also people get to see your work too. So there’s, like, two sides to it, so you have to think of the cost of shipping it, and just to make sure that you’re not, like, pricing yourself out, you’re not losing more money, yeah, spending more than you’re making.

Olya Konell 44:58

Yeah, and also. Not only do you get the benefit, but if you gain any kind of certification, even if you don’t get Best of Show, but if there’s anything else that you could possibly get, you get to put that on your, you know, CV, yeah. It’s yeah. It’s almost like, it’s like a pin, you know how in the military, in the army, they have, like, the it is, yeah, artists, that is almost the equivalent

Shana Levenson 45:19

of the, I remember my first show, I entered winning Best of Show, and it was like, it was a game changer for me, because I was like, oh, people really like when I’m painting it as a 2014 I sent a huge piece to this little place in Colorado, and not only did I win Best of Show, but then I found these collectors that ended up buying it. So this is, you know, 2014 it was a 60 by 40 inch painting. I sold it for $3,000 okay, now, a 60 by 40 inch painting is about $35,000 so Wow, just that trajectory, you know, it’s been 12 years, yeah. But completely, you know, you you learn, you better keep pushing yourself. So you’ll, it takes a little bit, you know, but

Olya Konell 46:11

you’ll get there, yeah. And then, you know, for artists that can get to where you are now, the beautiful thing is, all those years of hustling, barely making any money, like, it’s a hard grind. Guy, like, we all know that it’s hard, it’s a hustle. You get excited about whatever you could, you know, like, oh my gosh, I sold this probably under, undersold it cost wise, but someday it will start kind of balancing those lows out, you know, little by little. So like, all those cheap art sales, this is why artists are able to charge more. It’s because the amount of time, the amount of years that we spend charging less, you know, eventually it kind of comes back. So when people are painting for a painting, they’re not just painting for that one painting, they they’re painting for the years that the artist has invested. So don’t be afraid to adjust your prices if

Shana Levenson 46:58

you need to, absolutely, but you also want to make sure you’re not just like relying, yeah, only because that’s an impossible life to the mean very few artists, which there are artists that do so that do very well. But there’s also teaching print sales. You have to figure out other avenues of making an income, just so that way, you know it. It all comes together. But yeah,

Olya Konell 47:23

and print sales allow people to get work at a much more affordable cost

Shana Levenson 47:29

point, which, yes, and I have prints as well, and I just came out with a new print release on Monday, and it’s one of my the first smoke and gas mask piece. So if you go to prints,

Olya Konell 47:41

yeah, print, oh, yeah, oh, there it is. Yep, that’s the one, yeah. I love that painting. I I mean, are really great for people, yeah? Such a great idea. So it, you know, and do you use a print service, or do you go get your prints made and then you’re able to sign them? And you I can see that says, Yeah, I have a print,

Shana Levenson 47:59

and I have a print place here called a good sign, and I send them the image. They print it on great paper, and I hand sign a number, because I only do limited edition prints. And I actually, and this is, this is a weird work of mine. Not all artists do this. I only sell prints of paintings that have sold. I never make prints of pieces that haven’t that sold. So that way it makes it valuable. Yeah, yeah. But another thing I want to say about to artists is that so if any of you are teachers or do anything where you’re teaching, people, think of the materials that you’re using and reach out to those companies and see if maybe they will sponsor you or send you free material. So that way they I think the one reason that I’m able to get, I get a lot of my paint for free and my brushes for free is because I teach, and it’s because I get students to buy those products. So that’s something that’s really important, is to make sure that you’re you’re figuring out the business side of it with the materials you’re using, and if you do teach, or if you’re building up a big social media presence, trying to figure out how to make it more accessible, to get companies to send you some free material.

Olya Konell 49:15

Yeah, and most companies, I don’t know, I like to look as as as of late, because I’m I’ve noticed that if you go to their websites, they’ll have a little thing, either at the very bottom with those tiny little links, or up in their menu, it’ll say, become an affiliate. So if you see that, click that thing, fill out that form and see if you’re eligible, or click the Contact Us button, because that would be the easiest way to get a hold of somebody within their it never hurts to ask.

Shana Levenson 49:44

Never. The worst they can do is say no, the worst that will happen, exactly.

Olya Konell 49:50

But that’s that’s the for businesses. In case you guys didn’t, didn’t notice, or didn’t know, the number one way that businesses can market their product. In 2026 isn’t by making commercials. It literally is working with existing people that are using their products. So you know, most of the time, they are excited that somebody is reaching out to them. And if you’re the right fit and you have the right audience, and especially if you’re teaching, that’s like a slam dunk. So I love that advice. There’s so and because I don’t want to take you over your time, but I also want to get this last question, and then if anybody else has any quick Q and A’s, drop them into the chat or into the Q A box, last words of advice, like, if there was only one thing that someone could take away from this conversation, what would you want them to leave with,

Shana Levenson 50:45

gosh, don’t I guess, any mistakes you make in within your paintings, turn those into lessons, as opposed to feeling down about them. So if you feel like you’re not progressing in a painting, use that as a lesson to keep pushing yourself, you know. So say like you feel like, Oh, I’m so bad at painting arms or hands. Don’t shy away from them. Use that to motivate yourself to keep getting better at it until it becomes a strength. And then, you know, keep doing that to make another thing that you feel like you’re not good at, keep pushing yourself.

Olya Konell 51:21

So that would be that’s so good, and that’s so true for everything. So if you’re like, Oh, I suck at posting a social media, do it till you feel till you’re better? Because nobody just born good at

Shana Levenson 51:33

a thing. Well, I have another one also, yeah, I do have another one. Another one is, Who cares how the size of your studio space. If you have a spot on the kitchen table, you have a place to create art. The size of the studio does not matter. If you don’t have your own personal studio space, who cares? You know, my husband’s studio is twice the size of mine. Honestly, I don’t care, because as long as I have my own little space. You know, when I first got divorced, I used to work in this, like, small little area in my kitchen in my condo that I had at the time. And so you don’t need to have a massive space to create artwork. You can have anything like you have a little corner. You could have a table the kitchen just create work. And whether you have three hours or 20 minutes, do something creative every

Olya Konell 52:20

single day. Oh, that’s such good. That’s a good reminder for me. I needed that, because I’m always like, Oh, I don’t have that much time today. But do I have 20 minutes? Yes, I do have 20 minutes. And you never

Shana Levenson 52:30

know, you might have, like, added this fantastic color, like, Oh, my God, I just turned the corner on this piece that I’m struggling with in just 20 minutes, or you’ll be hit with,

Olya Konell 52:39

like, a lightning bolt of inspiration for something that does, you know, require more time, but something bigger. I Scott Jones says, I know artists who won’t paint hands or feet. Take her advice. Take shana’s Hand workshop and force yourself to tackle what you find challenging. Create new things all the time. I love that. Thank you, Scott for sharing. Do you I and because I know I mentioned in the beginning, I would love to see what you’re working on. Are you able to just, oh yeah, is it Yes?

Shana Levenson 53:07

Let me, let me turn this. You can see if there’s any glare, just because of the window, because my massive window. So this is my cat area. Hold on, Cat Cafe. Oh, there. There you go. There you go cafe. And then on my wall is my Hughes easel. I love this, this thing, so for a second,

Olya Konell 53:27

because there’s like, a little bit of a There we go. There we go. The camera, like got stuck, and

Shana Levenson 53:32

goes back and forth. It goes up and up and down. So I can’t move it because I’m holding my computer, but I’m working on a massive mylar balloon painting that says, fuck yeah, yeah.

Olya Konell 53:44

I love that.

Shana Levenson 53:44

It’s like, anyway, yeah, no, those are, like, for the glare. It’s like, not, okay, yeah. And then, so, yeah, I’m finishing up the you today, and then working on a couple of the flowers. But you can see, like, the flowers trying to get my camera. The flowers are really big. And there’s my references on the wall. You can see I also have artwork of people that I love. So I have an alley Cavanaugh painting I bought a portrait a few years ago. And then Michelle Dunaway. And then this is a quote I love to say, you can’t see it. It says, I will sell a painting today. I always put it out in the universe. It’ll happen. It’s true, yeah. And then this right here, is my magnet wall. Oh, fun. The magnet wall paintings have magnets like attached to the back, so they could just have them up there drawing,

Olya Konell 54:32

I What? Wow, that’s, yeah, rad. That is so clever. Okay, curious how you did that. So the wall is metal, or the wall is also a magnet,

Shana Levenson 54:42

or the magnet, no, so we put a magnet board, like, it’s like a thin, like metal, and, yeah, my art, the guy that, like built our studios, he like glued them to the wall, basically. And. Then on the back of my paintings, I have like, just,

Olya Konell 55:05

wow, that’s

Shana Levenson 55:06

so cool. So that way they can just go up there, yeah, that’s great. And then down here is a painting I just finished with my friend Doriel. Oh, yeah, and that’s actually a workshop I’ll be teaching too in 2027 she and I are teaching a workshop together in January, for those that have taken a workshop with me and Doriel, my friend Doriel can he’s an incredible figurative artist, also hers is, like, really surrealistic and fun and bright. So we love teaching together. We haven’t taught together in a year. I don’t have that on my site yet. I gotta get that on my site soon.

Olya Konell 55:40

Yeah. So I’ve just shared shayna’s workshop link again, but also, right before that, I shared just in general, and we will include all of this when we send the recording out. I love that little tour. Honestly. That was like one of

Shana Levenson 55:55

my this thing right here is the best thing too, because it has all of my paints. If you guys, if I opened it up, you’d be so jealous of all the paints. I mean, we have the best paint collection.

Olya Konell 56:06

You should do a tour. I have you ever done, like, on on social, like, Hey guys, I give you a tour of my amazing paint collection, because I will watch I haven’t in

Shana Levenson 56:15

a while. I did it a long time ago. Yeah, I need to. I need to definitely go through all the paints.

Olya Konell 56:20

Yeah, yeah, because that would be so fun. It’s like, looking at somebody’s makeup collection, or like, going into my sister’s closet, or, yeah, that same it’s that same feeling, yeah, yeah. What do you got there? I love that. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for bringing us in in such an intimate and recovery says, Great info today. Yeah, i i For anybody that I know there’s gonna be, people are like, Oh my gosh, we missed it. The recording will be out. I’m so excited. We’ll have the transcript, we’ll have all the links, and what a beautiful insight into, like, your creative mind a little bit, and your energy and your space. Like, what an honor. So thank you,

Shana Levenson 57:01

yeah, of course, thanks for having

Olya Konell 57:03

me appreciate it and everybody else. Have a wonderful and creative rest of your day. Thank you all for attending.

Shana Levenson 57:09

Thanks for joining, guys.

Olya Konell 57:11

Thank you so much. Bye, bye.

It’s Olya, your FASO Show (formerly BoldBrush Live!) host and I’m thrilled to introduce a special featured guest for next week’s webinar. This is a topic you won’t want to miss. Debra Keirce will be presenting a talk to help artists navigate their Art Career and sharing “Thoughts Artists Rarely Say Out Loud”. She will also be answering your art and marketing questions.

Next FASO Show Guest:

Featuring: ​Debra Keirce

Topics: Art Career - Thoughts Artists Rarely Say Out Loud

When: Thursday, May 21, 2026

Time: 12 PM ET | 9 AM PT | 10 AM MT | 11 AM CT

Join via Zoom - here is your ​Zoom link​.

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Who is Debra Keirce?

Debra Keirce is a celebrated Northern Virginia artist, contemporary realist painter, and draughtsman whose work is defined by a meticulous, hyper-realistic style. Creating oil paintings and charcoal drawings, Keirce creates visual stories. Her work is not merely about meticulous rendering. It is about creating a visual story that leads the viewer into an intimate narrative.

Debra’s recognizable style often involves incorporating paintings or drawings of handwritten text and fragile ephemera, such as vintage valentines, dried plants, or archival notes, that appear to defy the canvas plane, drawing the viewer into an intimate, narrative world. She pays homage to the 17th-century masters of illusion and the European miniature artists. Her art uses this technical mastery to evoke a powerful feeling or memory in the viewer.

Keirce’s technical mastery is rooted in her background as a biochemical design engineer. This foundation of precision is evident in her tight rendering, whether working on pieces forty inches tall or palm-sized true miniature works. Her career milestones include being a US Coast Guard Artist and recipient of the 2022 USCG George Gray Award, a commission of eleven original paintings for the five-star Boston Langham Hotel, and an artist residency aboard the U.S. National Security Cutter Stone.

Here is a short clip from Debra’s prior FASO Podcast interview:
Breaking the Mold: The Secret Ingredient for Artists - Debra Keirce

Check out Debra’s ​workshops​​, follow her on ​Instagram​ ​and discover more on her ​website​.

Looking forward to having you join us!

Best wishes,

Olya Konell and the FASO Team
FASO Show Webinar Host
FASO Marketing Team

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