Ginny Butcher — The Desire is the Gift

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For today's episode, we sat down with Ginny Butcher, a Wyoming-based artist who fell in love with the natural beauty there as well as the adorable cows roaming the pastures. She tells us about her artistic journey which has been characterized by perseverance, overcoming internal doubts, and learning to embrace her unique artistic voice. She initially struggled with the idea of being a full-time artist, experiencing burnout and uncertainty, but eventually found her stride by remembering to take time away from painting in order to re-charge. Ginny reminds us that the gift we have as artists comes from the desire to continue pursuing our passion and not necessarily from being naturally good at drawing or painting. She also tells us about her artistic process which involves careful planning, including creating thumbnails and studies before starting a final painting, and she emphasizes the importance of understanding fundamental techniques. She discusses her marketing strategy that centers around a weekly email newsletter that connects personally with subscribers which has also helped her successfully build a career over the past 20 years. Finally, Ginny tells us about an ambitious project she's currently undertaking and her upcoming shows!

Ginny's FASO site:
https://www.ginnybutcher.com/

Ginny's Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/ginny.butcher.fine.art/
https://www.facebook.com/GinnyButcherArt/

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Transcript:

Ginny Butcher: 0:00

I've kind of come to the conclusion that the gift is the desire to pursue because there's a lot of people that can do stuff, but they don't have the desire to pursue it. And not just a desire, but a desire that's strong enough to where you kind of can't not do it. It causes you to persevere and work at it despite frustration or disappointment or discouragement.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:42

Welcome to the BoldBrush show where we believe that fortune favors of bold brush. My name is Laura ankle Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Ginny Butcher, a Wyoming based artist who fell in love with the natural beauty there as well as the adorable cows roaming the pastures. She tells us about her artistic journey, which has been characterized by perseverance, overcoming internal doubts and learning to embrace her unique artistic voice. She initially struggled with the idea of being a full time artist, experiencing burnout and uncertainty, but eventually found her stride by remembering to take time away from painting in order to recharge. Ginny reminds us that the gift we have as artists comes from the desire to continue pursuing our passion and not necessarily from being naturally good at drawing or painting. She also tells us about her artistic process, which involves careful planning, including creating thumbnails and studies before starting a final painting. And she emphasizes the importance of understanding fundamental techniques. She discusses her marketing strategy that centers around a weekly email newsletter that connects personally with subscribers, which has also helped her successfully build a career over the past 20 years. Finally, Jenny tells us about an ambitious project she's currently undertaking and her upcoming shows. Welcome Jenny to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?

Ginny Butcher: 2:17

I'm fine. And thank you for having me on Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:20

Thank you for being here. I am in love with not only your gorgeous land space, but your super adorable happy cows. I think they're so precious. They're, you know, they really represent that joy that we can get from just looking at the other creatures around us that we don't remember exists, because we're so caught up on life. So it's nice to stop and look and enjoy that beautiful summer sun on the pasture with the cows. And yeah, I just, I really love it. It's very wonderful.

Ginny Butcher: 2:53

Well, thank you. I love painting them. I've sometimes wondered why, but they're just so cute.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:01

They are. Yeah, I totally understand that. Yeah. But before we talk about your gorgeous cows and your beautiful landscapes and all your awesome projects, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?

Ginny Butcher: 3:15

Well, sure, I'm Jenny Bucha, and I grew up in New Hampshire, and I moved to Wyoming when I was 25 the family I grew up in was very creative, but just in our it's just what we did. It wasn't like our work, if you know what I mean. We just were a creative family, and I wanted to be an artist when I grew up, like a lot of kids, but once I got out of school, I just never pursued it, and really didn't pursue much of anything other than hanging around and a little of this, a little of that. And when I was 25 I decided to move to Wyoming to see what it was like to live in the West. And my mom told me, because I was a little nervous about, well, what if I don't like it? And some of the best advice I ever got was from her when she said, Just give it a year. Don't make any decisions till you've been there a year, and then decide if you want to stay or not, and that was like 45 years ago. So I apparently I liked it. I actually love it out here. And when I moved here, I still did not pursue art, but I love the landscape. I love the openness out here. And I got married and had a couple of kids, and that was a rather terrible marriage, and I got divorced, and at the age of almost 40, I went to college. For the first time ever, and I was going to pursue Elementary Ed so I'd have the same schedule as my kids, but I got I had to have an art class to satisfy the degree, and when I got into the drawing one class, that was the end of the story, I was like, I can't pursue something I really don't like, which was the elementary ed program, and I had some instructors who really encouraged me to pursue art. So I did, and I didn't really pursue it full time until much later, but I had now moved back into that world of art, which I hadn't been in for very long time. Made some really good friends, one of who we're still really good friends, and she talked her neighbor into asking me out on a blind date after his wife died and we're married. We've been married for almost 30 years now. So and she and I have of all the friends that we went to school with, she and I are the only ones that have actually pursued a career in painting, and that's been huge to have that friendship and to encourage each other to keep going. Yeah, so that's kind of my background, I guess,

Laura Arango Baier: 6:41

yeah, and it's great. It's great because it's one of those things where it was so obvious as a child, right? This was your path, that this was something that was calling out to you, and the whole world just always loves to set it back and impose itself on us and say, no, no, no, you can never make money with that, or you should be practical, or you should do something else. And then, now, obviously, this is your career. You sell your work. You make a living from your work as well. And that's like, oh, so everyone was kind of lying a little bit. They didn't really know,

Ginny Butcher: 7:22

right? And I mean, everybody's different, but I was the kind of kid that, you know, if they said I couldn't do it, I was like, All right, if I can't paint pictures and sell them. I didn't want to be an art teacher. I didn't want to do commercial art. And so I did nothing. I just did something else. So part of my career and history has been growing out of that and doing a lot of inner work to gain not just confidence but belief that, Hey, it's okay for me to do this, and I can do it, and I will do it, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 8:04

yeah, yeah. And, and that brings up a really important point from that, which is that this career, specifically, or any career that's very creative, I feel that it's one of those things that it inadvertently has the power to heal us so many of the false beliefs we have. And I think in part, it's because when you learn to paint, or when you're learning to paint, because it's a continuous thing, you don't just like learn and then it's done, right? It's like forever, yeah, but it's so much about learning to see that I feel that it also kind of, you know, spreads into other aspects of our life, where suddenly the things we didn't notice about ourselves come to the surface, and it's like, whoa. I wonder why that's coming up. And, oh, that's funny. It kind of coincided with my breakthrough, where I started to notice this one aspect of painting this specific subject that I can now see more clearly. So it's such a deep lesson of seeing what we paint clearly but also ourselves. It's so interesting.

Ginny Butcher: 9:12

Yeah, it's so interesting. I can't separate the two. Yeah, I could talk for hours about that, so I don't know that I should, but, yeah, understanding the process and understanding myself, and really finding the things that kept me from going forward in certain aspects. You know, they're obstacles. I have a book called The obstacle is the way which I think I've read and I don't remember, but I like the title because I. After a while, I learned to recognize those obstacles as opportunities and not barriers. And the question became, what is this obstacle? Why is it here? And what do I do about it? Which is a whole different thing, a whole different approach, from feeling like you just need to get that thing out of the way, it's, maybe it's not really something needs to be gotten out of the way, but something that needs to be climbed over or gone through or something, yeah, so that that's been a major part of my process for whether it's in painting or marketing or just life in general,

Laura Arango Baier: 10:58

yeah, it's, again, it's one of those things, and I'm happy you also mentioned marketing, but we will, of course, discuss that little later in the podcast. But yeah, it's, it's fascinating, because obviously, you know, this isn't something happens to every single artist out there. You know, there are some people who, you know, they paint something, and maybe it doesn't necessarily bring to mind some internal conflict that they've been mulling over. But I would say that maybe for a lot of us as well, we do have that, and it's also about having that introspection and that awareness of these things that come up, because oftentimes, you know, it's it's one of those things where it's such an internal almost battle. I could say it depends. Sometimes it feels like a battle, sometimes it feels like something, like a friendship. You know, it really changes. But it, yeah, it can really make or break you. But also a good painting, I feel like the hardest, the hardest paintings can sometimes be the best ones, because we look at it and be like, Ah, yes. I remember that breakthrough. And right,

Ginny Butcher: 12:11

yeah, right, yeah. I, for me, one of the most helpful things has actually been to realize how common the War of Art is for many artists, that there's this real internal struggle, especially when, maybe when you are you're alone, usually, most of us are working alone. Spend a lot of time alone, and we like it, but we can sometimes be our own worst enemies if we don't realize there is actually this internal dialog going on sometimes that we have to recognize for what it Is and realize we're not alone in experiencing that, and so in our in our aloneness of our practice, we also need the balance of fellowship with like minded people so that we realize, Oh, we're not actually alone in feeling this way. Because that's when you can just feel like you're nuts, or you don't fit with anybody, because most of the people around us really don't seem to deal with any of that, and it can make you feel like I don't know, you just kind of weird, or you don't belong or or whatever. So I have finally found a balance between savoring and making the most of my like time in the studio or time outside painting, where I am alone, but not neglecting getting together, whether it's on FaceTime or on the phone or in person, whatever way, getting together with other artists who have A similar understanding of that, because not all artists do. I mean, there's a lot of people out there with artistic talent who enjoy it but don't really pursue it, and I hung around with a lot of those people for a pretty long time, and it actually was hindering me in moving forward, because there was this sense of, you know, none of them were interested in doing any of the things I was doing and I was. Always trying to encourage them to you could sell your work on a website, you know, all sorts of things or or try this kind of thing or that thing. And so it actually had a hindering effect on me. And when I had to leave, I just had to leave that that situation, and found some, I didn't need a lot of people to just one or two, you know, who are on a similar journey and who have a passion to get better, because that's really one of the driving things for me, is I'm always wanting to get better, to learn more, to practice more, to just learn. Learn new things, learn, learn another way to do something. And that kind of keeps me going to some degree. And I like to share that stuff too, with people, with other artists,

Laura Arango Baier: 16:11

yeah, yeah, totally, yeah. That's, you know, that's a typical saying of you should surround yourself with the people you want to be like or reflect to you, you know the goals that you have, right? So I think those old friends could have benefited from being around you instead of the other way around. But that goes to show too, that, you know, there comes a point where it's like, well, I don't feel like I'm surrounded by people who are and not to say that they can't be friends, but it's easier and better to surround yourself with someone more inspiring or more supportive or more encouraging, because that can make such a big difference against such a lonely career, right?

Ginny Butcher: 16:53

And the thing to I mean, I'm it took me a very long time to realize what was happening. I mean, I've heard all of that stuff, but I didn't really realize what was happening in my own life, and that that that kind of goes back to the introspection, the the inner struggle thing and growing out of, I think it's a maturing process, really, and it takes a lifetime, and not everybody manages to be on that journey. And that was huge for me. I did not realize that everybody wasn't interested. I was like, come on, come on. I've spent a lot of my time trying to get people to come on. But yeah, not anymore,

Laura Arango Baier: 17:51

yeah. There comes a point where it's better to apply all that wonderful supportive energy to yourself. Yeah. And people who do respond, yeah, yeah. And then you mentioned something that, you know, kind of, it's so interesting how, like, I said earlier, you know, sometimes that obstacle, like you mentioned, that obstacle that is in front of you in a painting is almost like, I like to compare to, like, a prism, right? Where, like, you can move it around and it's, it's one problem, right? And you can move it around so in the painting, it looks it looks like in this direction, but then in your interpersonal relationships, it changes, and it's without realizing the same problem that's coming up, and it's holding you back in your painting and in the interpersonal world, and maybe in your, I don't know, in your relationship with yourself, right? It's, it's so fascinating, yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 18:43

yeah. It is very Yeah. It can even be things like, more, like an external problem for which is really an internal problem, because it has to do with attitude. I love living in Wyoming. It is not an art mecca of any kind. And I mean, you have the exception of Jackson Hole, but that is not like the rest of Wyoming. And so I used to, I used to feel like, Oh, if I was only in Santa Fe or Taos or somewhere like that, everything would be different. But I began to embrace the quirkiness of Wyoming, because I do love it, and it really isn't an obstacle. It's actually an opportunity for me to make the most of in my art, in my painting, which is kind of where cows come in and landscapes and finding the things that I absolutely love about it here and. Uh, developing that in my paintings, really, seeing, seeing what I have, I feel a little bit like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz, like there's no place like home, because I spend a lot of time thinking, Oh, if I could paint like, so and so, or if I just, like, you said, like, if I just use these colors or these brushes or this style of painting, then it'll all work, and I'll sell lots of paintings, and I'll Be happy, and blah, blah, blah, and it's only very, very recently, like, I hate to say it, but really in the last year that I have kind of like, Come home to my painting, the way I Paint, who I am. Stop chasing being like somebody else. And that happened because I had a show at the college that I get graduated from, which I graduated almost 30 years ago. So that was kind of fun to do this solo show there in their brand new art building. It was really, it was really quite amazing. And so all my paintings were gone from here, and they were at the show, and the walls were bare. So I dug out some of my mom's paintings that she had done, not when she was in art school, but after all of us kids left, so she hadn't painted for a long time, and they were, you know, I just had them because they were my mom's, but I did not love them, which is why they weren't out. But I put them out, and I, you know, they, I began to fall in love with them, and I could see similarities between her work and mine, not a lot of similarities, but just a few specific things, like the way she did tree branches or something. And I just went through this whole thing of, oh, I used to really not think she was a very good artist, and I really didn't like that. I my stuff looked like hers, but it does, and it's fine and it's good. That is who I am. It's like my fingerprints. And so I started just to embrace that, okay, I mean, I can always work on, you know, design and composition and color harmony and edges and brush work. I can always work on the very basic things, but I can't get away from my own touch in it, and that's a good thing. And so there's like, I, my, my, I have just felt so much more joy in painting, joy and satisfaction, a little bit of confidence and appreciation for the way my whatever my voice is, I used to, you know, that whole thing about, how did you find your voice? Well, that's how I painted a lot. Tried to be like other people, realized this is the way I paint. There it is.

Laura Arango Baier: 24:01

So, yes, yeah, oh man, you just mentioned a bunch of things in there that just, who, wow. That is very profound, you know, because you mentioned how you know, your perspective of the place that you're at right now, right? Like Wyoming at first, maybe it's like, oh man, I wish I was somewhere else, right? But it's so interesting, and I relate to that completely, because I'm also a traveler, and I'm also, you know, looking out at the next place that maybe I want to, you know, be at, or, oh, there's this. It's always looking outward, right? And there's a bit of an aspect in there that you mentioned that's very much like putting that happiness and satisfaction in in the future, right? We're like, Oh, when I have this, I'll be happy, right? Or even putting that responsibility of the happiness outside of yourself, not realizing that it is from within that you find that happiness, perspective, like how you said, you know, like, it's that perspective. Suddenly I realized, no. If I look around like, wow, this is actually such a beautiful place. And if you really look at the I don't know, the way that the trees change their leaves here, or how the snow falls, and the angle of the sun and the specific place, there's a lot to fall in love with, right? It's about, you know, yeah. And so much of that is also like, what? And I feel like a lot of us, especially when trying to find our own voice, may experience that what I'm about to mention, which is, there's something that we're trying to escape, yes and Yeah. And it's so fascinating when you think about it that way, because what you just mentioned about like, Well, maybe if I was well, maybe if I was over there, or, Oh, I'm trying to paint like other people, it's like, Why? Why are you running away from yourself in a way, right? Like, yes, it's fine to want to learn from from other expressions that people might have for their work. But that kind of like refusal to accept yourself is, you know, by seeking out the other is so interesting, because there's that energy of escape, like, run away, run away, right, which is so fast, yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 26:10

right, and, yeah, that's a really good I never really thought about it as an escape so much, but I think you're right, and in some respects, that that was kind of always my solution to any situation I didn't like so well I'm out of here,

Laura Arango Baier: 26:31

same here. So yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 26:33

that makes total sense, that that's what I was doing when I was chasing being like some painting like someone else and and I had this crazy notion that when I did, I would have arrived. You know, no such thing though. It's, I will not ever arrive. It's, and I don't really want to anymore, because I love the journey. I love the process. I love being challenged and trying to be better or learn something new. It's so much more enjoyable taking that thought of then I will have arrived out of it. It's, it's kind of replaced with, well, let's see what will happen if I do this. That's sort of the the thing about painting those statues in Cheyenne is, oh, I don't know. Let's see what will happen.

Laura Arango Baier: 27:41

Yeah, yeah. The, as they say, the, and it's really interesting, because it's one of those things that makes kind of no sense when you first hear it, but then as you live life, you're like, Ah, I get it, which is the destination, is the journey? Right? Yeah, there's right.

Ginny Butcher: 27:55

It just takes so long to learn it, though it's crazy. So all that stuff is true, but I don't know, takes a long time to learn that it's true. At least it has taken a long time for me.

Laura Arango Baier: 28:09

Yeah, sometimes, and sometimes we think we learn it right, right? And then we revisit it and we're like, Oh, I get it again in a deeper way, right? I feel like a lot of life is also just revisiting all of these, these things that we think, oh, yeah, I get it. I get it in painting too, right? We might be like, Oh, I get the fundamentals. Yeah, those are easy. And then suddenly you realize, wait a minute, I need to revisit the fundamentals.

Ginny Butcher: 28:36

Yeah, I feel it's all always about the fundamentals that that's kind of what I've gotten. The point I've gotten to is it's it's just a repetition of the same things that we learned early on, and you don't really progress past those. And if you think that you're going to progress past those you're probably heading for trouble, because they never stop being the foundation of whatever you're painting. And that takes, for me, that kind of also takes the pressure off. I used to hear a lot, and I'm sure other people have about being original, which I haven't heard so much about it lately, but oh my goodness, I used to feel like, well, I'm trying to be original, but I don't know how to be original. And and at some point I thought, well, that's foolish. None of us are original the way, at least the way I was thinking of it, everything kinda has been done before, and we're going on the shoulders of the people before us. And we don't have to be original. We just have to be you. Ourselves and and, you know, just keep practicing the fundamentals. And it just, that's just the way it works. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 30:14

yeah, totally. And what you just said reminded me of a quote I really, really love by Alan Watts, or he had this really interesting way of he was trying to explain the self, trying to get to know the self, kind of like, how that, oh, I am trying to be original, right? Which is, it's a little bit similar in that it's like the tip of your finger trying to touch itself, right, right? Like, I'm just trying to touch the tip of my finger with my own finger, not the other, of course. So it's one of those things that you just can't, you can't go. You can't, you just can't, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, that's how it is. And I'm really happy that the whole originality thing is kind of died down, because I feel like that was very much a kind of, like a philosophy that was started, you know, by the modern artist movement, where we had Jackson Pollock and we had all of these artists trying these new ways of expressing what we would consider new right, which there's a lot that goes into that, but if it's already been done, it's like, oh, you can't do that anymore, because that's where you put on. It's like, who's deciding? Yeah, exactly, you can't do anything then, because there's nothing new under the sun, right? As they say, so it, I love that you mentioned that it takes the pressure off, because it should. There's, there should never be any pressure, because your paintings will always be yours, right? I'll see a Ginny butcher and be like, That's a Ginny butcher, even if it's the same exact landscape that someone else painted. I can throw it apart because it's like, your handwriting. It's right, not something you can instinctively decide, like, oh, I decided to paint like this. No, it just, it happened. Yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 32:00

I, I earlier on, like, oh, I don't know, probably 15 years ago, I I was not understanding any of this stuff that I have said, and I did a stint of selling on eBay. Oh, is it okay to talk about this now? Okay, of course. And I had read an article by Jack White in professional artist magazine, and he had done an experiment where he made up a character, painted and sold them on eBay at auction, just to prove that you could make a living selling paintings on eBay. And he had a like, you know, he just outlined exactly what he did. And I'm like, I'm going to do that. I am going to do that. So I did everything that he said, and I had my studio all organized. I had my my like, I had a shelf with each day's painting on it, and I had a selling and mailing and everything. I just had it very organized, which worked really well. And I did it for a year and a half. So that was over 200 paintings that I they were small, but it was over 200 paintings that I painted and sold, and I woke up one day after about a year and a half, literally woke up and said, I can't paint. Who am I kidding? Who am I fooling? I can't paint? And I didn't, it's like, I'm done. Never again. I can't do this. I don't know why I thought I could do this. And so I decided to start a menu planning business, which I wholeheartedly launched into. And the reason I wanted to start that was because when I was painting, one of my problems was always, oh, man, what are we going to have for supper? So I thought, well, that would have been handy, and it was kind of before all the meal service things that we have now. And so I spent three months researching meals, making meals, photographing meals, developing a pantry list and and a shopping list and a beautiful website in a subscription plan, and all of this stuff. And I had so much fun, and I sold about five subscriptions, and woke up one morning and said, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I gotta paint. But I did not know anything about burnout, and that's what had happened. I had no you know, I was just putting out, putting out. Putting out that year and a half, and I just had nothing left, and I didn't know that that was something that could happen to artists or other creative people, or anybody really, depending on what the situation is then. And I picked up a book by Carol Marine, which happened to be about that very thing, and because it had happened to her, although she didn't start a menu planning business, but there was some good advice about avoiding that, and I over. Since then, I have gotten to the point when I can steal that kind of starting to happen, and if I feel it starting to happen, I just know, Stop, just stop, go do some other stuff. And usually it's for a few days. It's, I mean, I don't have to leave town, but I just leave, just leave it. Just leave it. Go do some other things, cook, I don't know, just do whatever. Just don't do the art, really. I gotta get filled back up. I can look at art someone else's, you know, and but I just have to get filled back up. And instead of pushing through, because I always push through before and never, I gotta do this. I gotta do this. I I just have to do it. And so that was, that was a good lesson. A really good lesson.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:43

I'm so happy you brought it up too, because it's one of those things that I think in today, today's world, we live in such a fast pace environment, right? I feel like, you know, 100 years ago, maybe 200 years ago, it was, you know, we weren't exposed to this constant stream of services and products and sales and all these things. And the artists of before, of course, they didn't have to fill their time and energy with being bombarded with all of these useless in my in my opinion, useless things that you know, although that we can argue against that. But the point is, they weren't being bothered with ads and, oh no, I gotta go to the store and buy this because it's on sale. Or, you know, all of these things that have filled up our lives today, and it's no wonder we get burned out because we're trying to follow this pace that doesn't feel very organic, where we're just giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, and it's like, I can't take a break, because if I, if I take a break, then I will, you know, fall out of the stream, or I'll just like, you know, lose something. And it's right, it's absolutely no sense. I've also, I can relate to your burnout very much, because it's one of those things where you start getting frustrated, and it's like, why am I frustrated? Why isn't this working? And then it just feels like you start beating yourself up, but really, your brain is just tired, and like you said, you need to fill your cup again because it is empty. Yes, yeah, yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 38:21

yeah, get a walk, go have a nice meal, take a nap, read a book, give yourself permission to not be doing something productive. So called productive, you know, it's, it's like many vacations and and you can tell when you've done it enough and you have energy again to to create, because creativity is, in some ways it's exhilarating and in other ways it's exhausting. I have no idea how many decisions we're making while we're working, but it is continual. It's probably millions. I don't know, just like you, I don't even know who could time them. Everything we're doing is some kind of decision totally the whole time it you can't be thinking about other things when you're painting. You know you can wash the dishes and think about anything you're not I love to wash the dishes, actually, for that reason. But painting, I can't usually paint for more than two hours at a time without taking a break. I used to work at a sign shop. I could work at the sign shop all day long, because it was a whole different even though it seems creative and it had a creative aspect. A lot of it was simply, once you had your design, you just followed the design. There was, you know, you. Aren't making more decisions, and you could think about anything, and painting, and I'm sure other, you know, sculpting, or whatever is similar you you're just you're it's like your whole being is going into what you're doing. And that's people I know, people who don't paint. Every once in a while, I'll tell them I'm exhausted and they're and I know they're thinking you were just like in your studio playing for two hours. How could you be tired? Oh, my goodness, yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 40:43

yeah, exactly. It's so true, and it's one of the reasons why I'm pretty sure the book that you read as well, you know, recommends having other hobbies or other tasks that you do that fill your cup in a different way. And now that you mentioned it, that probably explains why one of my hobbies is actually knitting, because you just buy the pattern. It's like, I like this color. Very simple decision there, and you just follow the recipe, yes, right? That someone else has already, yeah, tossed and toiled and worked through for maybe months, maybe years, to make work, right? And then, voila, you have created something, and I can knit and not think, right? I can knit and listen to a podcast or listen to an audio book or just listen to music, and that gives my brain a little break, and then suddenly, after a few days of knitting, it's like, Okay, I'm ready to do the other thing now, yeah, because I got that break and I got that time to step away from this, this thing that I felt like I was struggling with. And then once you're back at, I don't know if this has happened to you, you're back at it, and suddenly you're like, it wasn't that bad. The problem was not even that bad. I mean, mountain out of a molehill, yes, yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 41:57

yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm usually discouraged with that, whatever I'm working on, and I have also learned to sort of delay judgment, or whatever you want to call it, like just don't even, just don't even think about it. Wait a few days and then, oh, that's not so bad as I thought it was. I don't know why I was upset, but one of the things that I've learned to do in the last couple of years was I took an online workshop with Scott Christensen, and I have known and been told for years to do thumbnails, and you know all that, and I was always in too much of a hurry to do them. I just want to get to the painting. And ruined so many paintings by doing that. But he actually got me, convinced me to do the thumbnails and enjoy them. So now I it's like, I don't do thumbnails and then go right to the painting I might do a whole day or half a day, and and this is, this is fun and not exhausting, of doing different thumbnails from one reference, where I always start basically doing what I see in the reference, and I just use value markers, and I just use, like, three values, period, I don't have a lot and big shapes. And after I do the first basically copying, essentially what's in the reference, and they're tiny, you know, then I, then I start the oh, well, what if I make this hill over here? What if I move this tree over there? What if I make this tree big? What if I try this and that is fun and relaxing and also productive, but not the same way that the painting is, because this also has no pressure. This is like, hey, what if this, how about I make it a really horizontal format, or a vertical or a square, you know, just exploring different ideas. And then after that. I mean, I usually don't even look at them right away, but when I want to make a painting, I might go through some thumbnails I've done, and the one that I it just really jumps out at me, then I'll do a couple, and maybe more than a couple, but usually just a couple tiny gouache studies with The same shapes and values that the thumbnail has and and so you know the color, I'll use these colors for this one, and then I'll use these colors for that one, so I can compare color. And they're so small and so simple that I can do them pretty quickly. They don't have to be. Be detailed. They're just an idea, just a color, color scheme, or whatever you want to call it. And then from there, I take the one that I like the most and make it a little bit bigger and gouache. And if I still really am liking it, I might go a little bigger, say, maybe nine by 12 in oil, where I start to develop the the different areas, the shapes, because they have to have variety within them. And the bigger you get, the more that's necessary. So this process, by the time I do a bigger painting, which my biggest paintings are maybe 24 by 30, and I don't do a lot of those. Do a lot of 16 by 20 or 18 by 24 but by the time I get to that point, if I still really love that scene, I have worked out most of the major problems. And so when I'm painting large, even though I still have a ton of decisions to make, those really basic, fundamental ones that make or break a painting have been made, and I can trust what I've developed so far that I cannot tell you how many, 18 by 24, or 16 by 20s I have in the past. Before I started doing that just ruined it, because I had no plan. I just had a lot of enthusiasm and some knowledge, but really hadn't even considered what, what kind of problems I was going to run into. Design wise, mainly, it's usually for me, design wise, I did not work that out in the beginning, and so that that that has also contributed to all of it being a much more enjoyable and a lot less burnout, because I can do the fun little things without the pressure before it's in. It's that whole thing I'm sure you've heard of. You know, musicians practicing, practicing, practicing for one performance and then practicing for another. You know, in why we think that we don't need to practice that stuff before the painting, the painting? I don't know, but for some reason we we just think we should be able to sit down or stand up and knock it out without practice. Yeah, so that's my landscape painting process. Cows is not so much because there's it's usually for the cows. It's usually just a face. Now, if they're in a scene, that's a whole different thing. I have to I have to work out the the design and composition and everything.

Laura Arango Baier: 48:11

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Ginny Butcher: 51:41

I don't think you get mad at yourself. I mean, you're not at all probably realizing, Oh, this is going to take me a while to figure out how to do this. And, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 51:52

yeah, yeah. And I don't think there's, I mean, sure, maybe there are artists out there who can just, you know, pull a canvas and do it all and it works out. But in part, I think there are two aspects of why it works out for them that are really important to mention, which is probably experience, like a lot of experience, oh yeah, also sometimes, which is, in my opinion, the most rare, which is natural talent, which I don't, I don't I don't personally believe in talent for that reason. I think it's actually extremely rare. And when someone calls someone talented, I'm like, they're just extremely hard working and, I mean, are still worth admiring, but that is a lot of work and energy and just a whole lifetime of all of these things that have come in in order to even produce a painting like this, right, right? So it is important to highlight that, yeah, it's okay to plan and to enjoy the process. Yeah, it is enjoyable. You're supposed to kind of enjoy it a little bit. Yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 52:54

I hope so we'd be really kind of weird if we didn't enjoy it. The other thing, you know, people talk about it being a gift, and I've kind of come to the conclusion that the gift is the desire to pursue because there's a lot of people that can do stuff, but they don't have the desire to pursue it. Um, and I, if anything comes from inside, like I didn't create it, or or come up with it, it's that desire to pursue, that's, that's my kind of take on it, is, that's the gift. I don't even know about the talent part, you know, because, I mean, I had that desire as a child, I spent hours drawing. Nobody told me to draw. It's just what I did because I loved it, and it's just always been in there. I and if I had never done it again, well nobody would know, you know, I mean, so the desire I feel, like that desire compels me like I can like that burnout, you know, I thought I was never going to do it again, but once I recovered, I had to paint, you know. So I think the gift, if there's a gift, is the desire to pursue and not just a desire, but a desire that's strong enough to where you kind of can't not do it. It causes you to persevere and work at it. But despite frustration or disappointment or discouragement, it's, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 55:15

it's, it's so funny, because the way that you describe it, you know, there's a couple couple things that come up there, right, which is one I have actually interviewed artists who they themselves, would say I had no talent for this when I was a kid, right? Worst drawings ever. Like, if you looked at my drawings, you would think, Wow, this kid would never make it as an artist. But of course, right, that perseverance and that desire will always outdo anyone who's naturally talented but doesn't put in the work, right, because they're not interested in it, right? Or maybe it's like, oh, well, it's whatever, whatever. That's fine. That's their path. And what matters in the end is, like you said, that perseverance and the fact that the, you know, a couple things in there, like the, oh, I'm going to stop painting for a bit because I'm burnt out. I feel like in part, and I don't know if you've struggled with this as well, but there's this, this creeping doubt that I think many of us might share, which is, we just wake up one morning like you did, and just say, maybe I'm not an artist. Maybe this is just maybe I'm just crazy, and this isn't something I should be doing at all. And I feel like that's that inner doubt. I don't know if it's that seed of doubt that's been placed on us by the people around us, right? Or a fear that we have of like, oh, maybe we're not actually that good. We're not good enough for this. I should just give up, right? Which, sure we've all struggled with, but then suddenly, like you said, we're back on and we're like, giving up. Why would I do

Ginny Butcher: 56:50

that? Why would I do that? And one thing that I have had, and I don't know, I I've never really heard anybody else say this, but I'm sure there are people that have felt this way. Is I thought of myself as an artist from the youngest I can't remember whenever I was old enough to think about that. And I think, you know, looking back, I think it was something I unconsciously understood it had something to do with the way I saw things like I can remember not always noticing the light falling on something always. I can tell the time of year by the way the light falls. I mean obviously other ways too. But there are certain times a year that the light looks a certain way, and I can remember noticing that when I was really little, and so I kind of in a in a way which maybe contradicts what I said earlier, but felt like I was always an artist, whether I was doing it or not, except for that one day when I woke up and said, I can't do this. But I can remember thinking even when I was in the depths of despair in horrible situations, and feeling like I had nothing going for me at all. I remember thinking, well, at least I'm an artist. I wasn't doing art, but I had that sense of identity, which is really weird to me because I didn't do any of it for so long. But, and I've heard, you know, most of my artist friends talk more about the doubts of whether or not they're an artist, but I don't know it was just an internal thing for me so and I and it goes back to seeing things a certain way. And maybe a musician has that even like they hear more than the rest of us here. I don't, I don't know, but we definitely see things talent. Forget about the talent. We see things that other people don't see. And it's you know, especially when you're young and you don't know that other people don't see it. It's just normal, like seeing the way the light falls across a window sill and the the colors and the light and the colors in the shadow, and did you? Did you just notice it? And that's part of our job, I think, as artists, is to show that to other people, because they don't really see it the way we see it, not just the way we interpret it, but they literally do not see it. When my husband looks at the mountain that's 20 miles away, it's gray, or maybe it's green because it has green trees on it. But to me. It's varying shades of blue depending on the atmosphere. And it's obviously blue. It's obviously soft blue or you know, but it is not to him. But when I paint a picture and he sees that, he sees it, you know. And there's so much beauty around us. We were made for beauty. I think beauty calls us to more than what we see, more than what we experience, beyond ourselves, and part of our job is to help people feel that and see it. Yeah, I don't. So anyways, I always thought of an artist.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:47

No, that's great. That's great. I wish I, I mean, I feel like, deep down, a lot of us do have that identity where it's like, yeah, of course I am. But I think sometimes it's a little bit of like, that productivity trap where it's like, yes, yeah,

Ginny Butcher: 1:01:03

and it's different than the artist who's doing art. It's very different

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:11

exactly, you know,

Ginny Butcher: 1:01:14

yeah, it took me a long time to realize, Oh, if you're actually, like, going to be called an artist, or be considered an artist or be an artist, you have to do something to

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:24

do exactly. It's like, I, if I feel like I haven't painted or I haven't produced, and it's like, am I am? Oh yeah, you know, it's almost like I one of the things I've mentioned to myself, just to remind myself, it's like, well, if someone studied to be a doctor and they have their degree, they don't stop being a doctor just because they're maybe not practicing, they're still a doctor, the knowledge, they the wherewithal, the everything, the work that's been put in. So it's good to remember that,

Ginny Butcher: 1:01:55

yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:57

but yeah. And then I actually, I really want to ask you, what do you find to be one of the most valuable traits that an artist can have?

Ginny Butcher: 1:02:09

Well, I think perseverance, I and and curiosity, I don't know the two of them. Maybe perseverance even more than curiosity, although they're really both important, but for me, the perseverance is something I had to learn. I was really, you know, I went to a small school. So in school, I did art, I I stood out. I could have had a full ride scholarship to an art school. I had a lot of recognition and sort of recognition, and it was pretty good in that, in that little place, and it was easy for me, so when I started pursuing it so much later, I the hard thing for me was learning that it's hard work, actually, so that required perseverance, because it had always been easy, but I didn't really do anything before with it. I just made pictures. You know? I wasn't trying to sell it. I wasn't I love to give my stuff away. I loved to just, yeah, it was fun to give it away, but you can't do that if you're going to pursue it as a career, so perseverance and which will carry you through the issues, whatever issues come up, because they come up, a lot of them,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:57

inevitably. Yes, it's one of those careers that's organic, you know, yeah, it's like growing an apple tree, you know, you just have to water it and fertilize it, and sometimes maybe it'll get sick, so you got to trim it. Or, yeah, it's, it's an organic thing. Maybe one get apples because it didn't get pollinated enough, and that's okay. You just have to deal with that in a different way, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. And then for you, what was it like? Because obviously, I mean, finally, got to this point where you're like, I want to make a career out of this. I really love it. What was that like for you when you made that jump into becoming an artist full time,

Ginny Butcher: 1:04:45

I it happened after I married my husband, and he that this gave me a lot more stability, because I was a single mom before that and working a few. Jobs. And it was my kids were young, and it was, I mean, I just couldn't even really do it. But I had, I had been back into art because of college. So when I married my husband, the stability helped me be able to pursue it more, and I didn't. I've never been a person who intended to have a career. I mean, I'd like, I wanted to be an artist, but I didn't think of that as a career. It's a lifestyle for me, you know. And I so it was kind of, it wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to be a full time artist, and this is my career. It was more we had, we owned a business, and I did it some at the business, and I did it, I guess, part time, and then we sold the business, and then then I did it more and started selling more. And then in 2015 my husband got hurt. He got bucked off a horse and tore his shoulder apart, and so we lost our income for like, nine months. And I remember thinking, all right, this is it. It's now or never, and I am going to give it everything I've got, because I don't want to go be a greeter at Walmart. But, you know, I mean, that's like, that's my alternative. And so I just jumped in. I was very determined. And way more successful than I thought I would be, so part of, part of my journey. And I don't know if you'd call it an obstacle, but I'm kind of like, I'm a little laid back, and money's never been a huge motivator for me, unless it was like, Oh man, I need some money and then I will do whatever I need to do, sort of, I mean, I still don't want to go get a job, job, but so it was the pressure of losing our income that really motivated me to get more serious, because it was necessary. And I would say that's really when my main full time artist journey started. So that was like 10 years ago, and I that's when I really started paying attention to my website and emails and painting more. And it was after the eBay stuff. So I had kind of learned about burnout and stuff, and it was fun. I enjoyed the challenge of seeing what I could do. The only problem was I had a really great year, but when the next year came and he was back to work, so the pressure was off as far as our main income, but the pressure was on because I felt like, oh, man, I gotta do better this year than I did last year. And that that's a that's a whole other for me. That's a whole other thing that I have to disregard. Sort of like, yes, I want to do better, but I got caught up in the I'm failing if I'm not, you know, making these sales this year. And you mentioned something earlier about some years you get apples, some years you don't so, yeah, it's, it's, um, and at some point, I think it was in 2020, I had a show at the art museum in town, and I was looking back, because I gave a talk, and I was looking back, I thought, Okay, I've been doing this for 20 years, I have a career. Ah, I didn't realize I was building a career. But yes, this, that's what it is, and it's organic. You You just don't know from year to year, but you persevere and you keep trying new things, and find your people to to encourage and and support you and keep going.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:53

And like you said, you know, it's that desire, that desire that is the that little seed, instead of. That perseverance. You know, I can't stop myself from wanting it, so might as well give it a shot and keep going. And, oh, just a little longer, just a little longer. And then suddenly, oh, it's been 20 years. Wow, yes, yes. That's exactly

Ginny Butcher: 1:10:15

how it was. I was like, Oh, well, yeah, maybe I got 20 more years in me. Let's see.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:10:23

Yeah, exactly. And it's great that you realize that you shouldn't pressure yourself, you know, year after year to do more and more and more and more, right? Because, you know, yeah, maybe the that apple tree gets bigger. Just to continue with the metaphor, the apple tree could get bigger, but it it has certain needs in order to be able to get more apples, or, you know, if you can't really control a drought, right, right? And that also affects the product, which, you know, that's one of those external factors in the career of an artist. So like, oh, maybe this year, I don't know, in the area where I live, or in the area where my gallery is, there was a huge fire, and a lot of people lost a lot of money, and therefore, collectors can't really afford any paintings this year because it's just been so tough, but maybe next year they'll, you know, be back on their feet, and then they'll be able to afford more. So there's a lot of external, you know, extenuating factors that come into play. But as always, you know, success and inspiration need to find you working and yes, just gotta keep going. Yeah, the wine quite a little bit, but you just keep going anyway, right? Yeah, you can cry while you paint. Yeah, um, and then I wanted to ask you, because earlier you mentioned how your you know, internal perceptions and how they've changed and how they also affect your marketing. I really want to hear more about how your marketing tactics have, may have been, may have been affected by your internal growth as well.

Ginny Butcher: 1:11:54

Yeah, so when I first started, it was 2000 or 2000 2001 I don't know. It was a few months before 911 and I had great success. I was using pastels, and I had great success. And then 911 happened, and everything went kind of crazy, and I hadn't been in the business long enough to realize really any of how things were affected by stuff like that, and but that the galleries began to close, and so that kind of led me into considering online stuff, even though it was kind of new ish, and I, I can't remember when I first built a website, but it was with Faso, and it's been a while. I'm it's been at least 15 years, I think a little longer than that, I think I'm not sure. I've tried to find out, but I couldn't figure it out. But I really liked that, and I I read their articles about marketing and particularly email. So email has always been one of my main avenues, and pretty successful. And you know, then we kind of moved into social media stuff somewhere along the lines. But I think I did the eBay before that. I decided eBay was not for me. No, just not my thing. But, and I know artists, a lot of artists sell on social media, I have rarely sold anything on there, although I do, you know, post things, and I've, I've kind of worked in and out of, you know, the whole how many times you post, what do you post, and all of that stuff. And I think a lot of us me for sure I could just do without it as far as my personal makeup, but I do it because it seems like you should do it, and I just do it in a limited way, and I don't put too many, I don't put, like, a lot of hope in making sales through that, because still, my newsletter has been my best, either newsletter or in person or galleries. So I put a lot of focus in my newsletter, especially during COVID. Had some of my best years during COVID Because of my newsletter and because people couldn't get out and I and I did things with sales and and fun things that I. Had a great response too, and in my newsletter, I've tried to approach it in a very friendly, kind of personal way, because that was some of the advice from Faso. And, you know, just making connections with people and lately, the last year or so, I've kind of shifting my focus a little bit, not away from my newsletter or my website, but I'm ready, almost ready, mentally, to approach galleries again, so we'll see how that goes, and part of that has to do with being more confident in the quality of my paintings, and I have upped the quality of my presentation and framing and just materials and things like that, I feel like, okay, I'm, I can do this now. I've, I'm good enough. I've learned enough. I I can do this because for a long time, I didn't want to approach galleries after they started closing down. I did a couple. I did not realize. I had no understanding of the value of gallery wall space in the sense of their, you know, I knew they got their commission, but I didn't realize, well, they're gonna, they're gonna prefer to sell a $5,000 painting, over$500 painting, especially if they take up similar wall space. It's just, you know, that's just as like a very basic makes sense, but it took me a long time to understand that. So I still am doing my newsletter, my website, and will be looking for some galleries this year, maybe at the end of the year, kind of making preparations for that, and also, you know, giving myself some pep talks. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:17:13

it's again. It's that vulnerability, feeling of like, oh, I can get rejected, and that hurts. But oftentimes that has little to do with with the work itself. Oftentimes it's or the quality of the work, I should say, as well. Sometimes it's just, well, the gallery doesn't isn't taking anyone new right now or right well, your work doesn't quite fit in with the type of work we sell. So that's why it's also important to look at the work that the gallery already sells and see how your work might fit in, and then the price range like you mentioned. So, yeah, totally. And actually, I did want to ask you too, how have you collected emails for your newsletter? Have people just found you randomly online, or have you also, you know, met people and then they sign up?

Ginny Butcher: 1:17:59

A lot. In the beginning, I just signed up everybody I knew. Of course, I asked them, so that was my family and a couple of friends, which I've heard people say, Oh, but I only have my family and my friends. And I always say, Well, do it. If nothing else, you can practice sending emails, sending newsletters, writing newsletters, and they're not going to reject you, or you don't have to feel too worried about about it. If that's you're just sending it to your family and your friends. So that's what I started with. So my 10 people, and then I just would have an email sign up sheet. Back in those days, if I was at a if I went to it, you know how to show if, depending on the situation, sometimes when I was really feeling outgoing, if i i always had business cards with me, so I would hand those out if the if it came up. Um, I'm trying to, I have, like, 250 people. I seem to average 250 people. You know, some, some leave, some join. And I don't really know where they all came from, but I do know some have come through the art alerts and daily art stream when I remember to make my paintings public. So I've gotten some that way and just kind of all over. I don't think there's really been a one main stream, except possibly me asking people if they would like, like, if I if I sell a painting at a show, and I know who bought it, because I don't always know who bought it, because they don't always. Tell you, but if I do, I try to get a hold of that person and ask them if they would like to receive my email, you know, I thank them for buying it, and would they like to get my email? And boy, a lot of my people have been on there since a long time, 10 years or more, and they write back to me, you know, which is fun, not all the time, but sometimes, and I do studio sales. So I think I got some people when I would post that I was going to have a studio sale. If I posted on Facebook or something like that, and say, you know, sign up for my email so you can get in on it. And I have changed where to where, when my studio sales are only for my email people. And that's one of the perks of getting my email, yeah? So does that answer the question?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:21:06

Yes, it does, yeah, because it's one of those things that like, it feels almost like mysterious. It's like, oh, I have, I have an email newsletter, and I have people on there, just like, where did they come from? You know, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's good to know, yeah, I'll go through

Ginny Butcher: 1:21:22

the list sometimes just looking. And it's funny, because most of the time I only, when I think about it, I can think of maybe five people, but when I go through the list, I'm like, Oh yeah, so and so, oh yeah. Wonder how they're doing. Yeah, it's uh, some people never reply, but pretty often, you know, here and there,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:21:46

I get Yeah, and then, of course, you can see the open rate as well on the on the website, which is really nice, too. And oftentimes art newsletters, artist newsletters tend to have a really good open rate compared to other newsletters, because, of course, the people who sign up actually care, and they do read and they are curious,

Ginny Butcher: 1:22:05

yeah, and I would like to say I usually do it once a month, you know, like, consistently, once a month. And a year and a half or so ago, I started doing it once a week, and it seemed a little overwhelming at first, and I was kind of afraid, like, Oh, I'm, you know, bombarding people with it, but it's so much easier to do once a week than once a month. And the reason is, I try to make each one only about one thing instead of a whole bunch of things, so it's not a newspaper, it's just a little letter or note, so it's not real wordy, usually, and it'll have one or two paintings, or maybe it'll be a, you know about a plein air trip, and have some pictures of me painting, or the process or something. And they always try to write it like I'm writing to one friend. Yeah, yeah, nobody has stopped subscribing because I sent it once a week, and it's much easier to write about one thing once a week than to get you know, a month or sometimes longer for some people, has gone by, and you're either trying to write about everything or trying to pick out what one thing should I write about. And most of us actually have a lot going on and a short email once a week with some pictures and a friendly, hey, what's going on? You know, people like it and it. I can, I can actually do like, four or five drafts at a time if I, if I know what's coming up. And so if I take a day, you know, a morning, and I'll do four or five drafts, and then I'll go back and, you know, finish the one that's the most immediate one, and then it's just so much easier. I know it sounds overwhelming, but it's much easier,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:24:20

yeah, and it's one of those things that it, it does work, you know, it does lead to more sales than you would expect. So it is worth, you know, trying a few different ways, kind of like how you will. I used to do it once a month, and then I tried once a week, and then that worked better for me. Because, you know, what matters is that it happens at all, right? And that you can put it in your schedule, because it's yeah, for some people, it's like, oh, I don't really like writing, right? Even though I know that it actually works really well. You know, if someone forgoes newsletters completely, then of course, they have to make up those sales in other ways. Or try to find other streams of income, because, you know, everyone has their own path and their own, you know, priorities. But I think personally, the email newsletter for sure is, it's one of those things. It's very invaluable. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, totally. And then do you have any anything that you wish you had known earlier in your career as an artist?

Ginny Butcher: 1:25:30

Yeah, I have a lot of things. But I, for me, I think the thing that, like I really wish I had realized, is the hard work the painting. I mean the painting part is hard, but it's easier than the marketing. So I wish either I had gotten help sooner with marketing, or really understood that the business part is like, sometimes more than half of the whole thing, depending on how you're doing the business. You know, if you're if you're doing all you're selling yourself, that's for sure, going to be more than half of your time, and if you're going through galleries, I'm only, I'm pretty sure that would be a little less time, but it still requires some time. So I I wish I had realized how much work the business end is, and how worth it is learning some solid business practices. I started book. I just have a little bookkeeping. I think it's like a bi week, bi weekly bookkeeping thing where I record all my expenses, all my sales, from week to week, so that at the end of the year, it's on one page. I know it's and it's so much simpler than QuickBooks, something like that, and it costs, like, 20 bucks,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:27:11

and it's, it's interesting too, that you brought up something that kind of reminds me of something I've been thinking about a lot, which is how oftentimes it isn't the thing that's difficult, right? It's the the way we go about doing it, yeah, yeah. So if it's easier for you to, yeah, man, I like in putting it in QuickBooks directly, then do that. But if it's easier for you to just jot it down on a paper, put the dates, put the receipt there, and just like, leave it there, yeah, yeah, then that works for you, right? That's it

Ginny Butcher: 1:27:44

keeps those receipts in one spot, yeah, envelopes for every month, my monthly receipts go in the envelope for that month, just in case, and when I try to write in my book every week, like Mondays or something. Yeah, exactly.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:28:03

Having, yeah, having a system is what really makes a huge difference. Because I, I don't know how many times I've avoided doing a task, and it turns out it's a five minute task, and the way that I thought I should be doing it was harder than how I could have done it, right, right, right, yeah, yeah. And then, do you have any final advice for someone who wants to become a full time artist?

Ginny Butcher: 1:28:32

Yeah, I would say, Find a mentor or a group who also is doing that, just find some people who can help you along the way, where you can brainstorm together, network, just support, encourage each other and yeah, find the health that you need to do it and the support you need to do it and do it as as you're able. I mean, it's so different depending on your age and where you are at in life. I mean, if I was starting out, and of course, knew what I knew now, I would just do it when I didn't, you know, because I didn't have any big expenses. I wasn't married, I didn't have kids, I had a dog. I, you know, my expenses were minimal. I was very mobile, and it's Yeah, yeah, do it, but find, find some some people to come alongside you in it is, I think big, Yep,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:29:52

totally Yeah, and don't be afraid to ask for help. Exactly, yeah. I think we try to go about it alone, because it's like, no, the. This is, this is all me. It's a lonely thing. But it's like, does it have to be though, does it because I'm sure there are people out there who care enough about you. Oh, yeah, we'll be more than happy to help.

Ginny Butcher: 1:30:11

I think there are a lot of artists who have been doing this. If they if a younger artist who wanted to do it and was serious asked for help, I mean, most of the ones I know would be Yeah, of course, I'll help you. Most older people who've learned some things are more than willing to share with any younger people who actually want to hear it?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:30:45

Yeah, totally, totally. I think we underestimate that human empathy for, you know, like, if especially artists who have been doing it for so long, they've been through the exact same thing every step, usually, and you know how we were talking about earlier, also like, oh yeah, maybe if I buy those brushes and those paints, I'll paint exactly like, so and so. And we've all done that. We've all done that part

Ginny Butcher: 1:31:13

of the growing up Exactly,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:16

yeah. I mean, maybe somewhere out there, someone hasn't done that, but we've all, we've all thought it at least was like, Oh man, I want to know what brush is. So and so is the same, because maybe that's how I'll be able to paint with like, just like them, but user error, right? And then it's like, oh no, yeah. And then I wanted to ask you also, do you have any upcoming shows or exhibitions, and I want to hear more about these sculptures in Cheyenne. Okay, well,

Ginny Butcher: 1:31:48

I am included in the, I think it's the 26th annual juried exhibition for the American impressionist society this summer in Hamilton, Montana, and I'll be going there to participate in some of the events that they're doing. And I was explaining earlier about this bronze project in Cheyenne Wyoming. So Cheyenne is the capital of Wyoming, and that's where the Capitol Building is. And about, I don't know, seven to 10 years ago, Harvey deselmes, who owns the gallery that I'm in there, started this capital Ave bronze project, and the goal was to have a bronze statue on every corner of Capitol Ave from downtown, at the depot going up to the Capitol building. And that was about 30 statues, which they have far surpassed that there are now 76 and it's a really cool project. It is every every statue is connected in some way to Wyoming or Cheyenne history, whether it's a family that homesteaded there or whatever. And there are multiple donors who have bought and donated the statues, and they're in various sizes. So I got the idea last December to paint the statues, I mean, go down there and paint them on the street corners, where wherever they are. And I talked to Harvey about it. He thought was a great idea. So I just started in April, because we don't really have good weather in the winter to be doing that. And so I did three on the spotters of the two statues, and one of a crowd that was at a dedication for one of the statues. And they are eight by 10s, so they're just plein air pieces, and I go down and try, mostly to capture the statue and just hint at the background, and finish them in the studio, and then bring them back to Cheyenne. My goal is to do 20 to 24 this summer. I go down there once a month, so I don't know if I'll be able to get that many, but I allow myself about an hour just to try to get the gesture and the gist of the statue and the gist of the other surroundings before I go on to the next one, because the light changes and it's very it's very challenging. Some of those statues are very intricate, yeah, and bronze has, I mean, it's different colors, and then you have the light shining on it, so obviously that's different. Different color where the lights hitting, and then you have the reflection also, and the, yeah, it's, it's, it's going to be a challenge, and I figure it'll take about four years. So my goal is to paint them all before I

Laura Arango Baier: 1:35:19

die. Great goal. That's a great goal. And, and, yeah, it's a wonderful challenge to put on yourself as well. And it ties in a little bit to what we were talking about earlier, where, you know, you can see the beauty of a place where you are right, which is you're sharing your appreciation, also by no painting these statues that are about the history of Wyoming, and just, you know, giving back in a way, because you're documenting them, right? Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. And then, if someone wants to keep up with this project of yours and they want to sign up to your newsletter, where can they go?

Ginny Butcher: 1:35:52

Oh, my website is www Jenny butcher.com, and you can sign up for my newsletter there, and they can follow me on Facebook, which is Ginny butcher art, and then on Instagram, it's Ginny dot, butcher dot, fine dot art on there, and I think that's it. I have work at the sounds fine art in Cheyenne and at rich Haynes gallery in Park City, Utah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:36:23

Awesome. Great. Well. Thank you so much, Ginny, for this wonderful mind expanding conversation. It's been Thank you, Laura, yeah, of course,

Ginny Butcher: 1:36:34

I really enjoyed it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:36:36

Me too. Yeah.