Grace DeVito — It Takes Time & Discipline

Learn the magic of marketing with us here at BoldBrush!
https://www.boldbrushshow.com/

Get over 50% off your first year on your artist website with FASO:
https://www.FASO.com/podcast/

Join our next BoldBrush Live!
https://register.boldbrush.com/live-guest

---

In this episode, we sat down with Grace DeVito, fine artist who shares her remarkable artistic journey from illustration to becoming a renowned portrait painter, revealing the dedication and passion required to master one's craft. Her transition from working in commercial art to creating deeply personal and meaningful portraits demonstrates the power of perseverance and continuous learning in an artist's career. Grace's approach to portraiture goes far beyond mere representation, capturing the essence and spirit of her subjects with a nuanced understanding that transforms each painting into a timeless piece of art. Her insights into the commission process illuminate the intricate dance between artistic vision and client collaboration, showing how a true artist can navigate the delicate balance of personal expression and professional commitment. With wisdom gained from decades of experience, Grace offers aspiring artists invaluable advice about the importance of dedicated practice, developing a unique artistic voice, and understanding that true mastery comes from thousands of hours of intentional work. Her story is a testament to the enduring value of traditional art in a digital age, proving that human connection, craftsmanship, and emotional depth can never be replaced by technology. Finally, Grace announces her upcoming workshops at the Scottsdale Artists' School, the Franciscan Life Process Center, and at the Kinstler Studio in Connecticut.

Grace's FASO site:
https://www.gracedevito.com/

Grace's Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/gmdevito/
https://www.facebook.com/grace.devito.98

---

Transcript:

Grace DeVito: 0:00

Practice, do a lot of practice. The whole 10,000 hour thing really is true. It's definitely people have start out with different levels of ability and talent, but that'll only get you so far. You really do have to put in the hours. And I would even say good hours, like if you practice a bad habit, you're only ingraining it. So, you know, we kind of have to learn to do good practice.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:32

Welcome to the BoldBrush show where we believe that fortune favors a bold rush. My name is Laura Engle Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. In this episode, we sat down with Grace DeVito, a fine artist who shares her remarkable artistic journey from illustration to becoming a renowned portrait painter, revealing the dedication and passion required to master one's craft, her transition from working in commercial art to creating deeply personal and meaningful portraits demonstrates the power of perseverance and continuous learning in an artist's career. Grace's approach to portraiture goes far beyond mere representation, capturing the essence and spirit of her subjects with a nuanced understanding that transforms each painting into a timeless piece of art. Her insights into the commission process illuminate the intricate dance between artistic vision and client collaboration, showing how a true artist can navigate the delicate balance of personal expression and professional commitment with wisdom gained from decades of experience. Grace offers aspiring artists invaluable advice about the importance of dedicated practice, developing a unique artistic voice, and understanding that true mastery comes from 1000s of hours of intentional work. Her story is a testament to the enduring value of traditional art in a digital age, proving that human connection, craftsmanship and emotional depth can never be replaced by technology. Finally, Grace announces her upcoming workshops at the Scottsdale artist school, the Franciscan life Process Center, and at the Kinsler studio in Connecticut. Welcome grace to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?

Grace DeVito: 2:18

Okay, great. I'm doing well. You are too.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:22

Yes, I am, and I'm so excited to have you, because I love your portraits, and I love the way that you just capture the person that's seated in a way that's it feels very almost regal and in a much more beautiful way than just, oh yeah, here's the person. It goes beyond that in your work, and I really love that.

Grace DeVito: 2:44

No. Thank you. Thank you. Of course, of

Laura Arango Baier: 2:46

course. But before we dive into all of your gorgeous process and your interesting use of color, paint, etc, because I'm always curious to know about technique, I would like for you to tell us a bit more about who you are and what you

Grace DeVito: 3:03

do. Well, I'm Grace denito. I have been a professional artist for a long time. I started my career as an illustrator back in the late 80s I went to, I graduated from the School of Visual Arts in New York. I didn't really, at the time, I didn't really think there was a way to make a living as an artist, you know, a fine artist. So illustration seemed the, you know, the right path. I originally thought, Oh, I'll do graphic design. But then in school, kind of discovered painting, and really like that a lot more and but it really wasn't painting. The kind of painting that I'm doing now is much more stylized. It was the school at that time. There really wasn't a lot of Atelier programs around and I certainly didn't really know about them as pre internet. I think maybe there was the one out in Minnesota. Name escapes me now, but he was a student of Ives camel, and I think Jacob Collins was just learning himself, or maybe just starting as an atelier, but So I graduated, had to put together a portfolio, but I really had no real skills, and it was very difficult. You know? I. Had an idea of what I wanted to do, but I just didn't have the I the capability to do it. And that started a long process of trying to find it, you know, through books or, you know, finding other artists. And it took a long time to do so, but, but in the meantime, I was working in the illustration field, doing book covers, advertising packaging, illustrations for packaging, you know, things like that, to keep to make a living. But also just I felt, in a way, like it was I was getting paid to learn to paint so but it wasn't until I met a painter who was doing portraits full time Laurel stern Bach, and she was teaching like a one, once a day, I'm sorry, once a week, painting class. And so I started studying with her. And I had young children at the time, so I was only really able to do you know, one day a week, and I did that for a few years, but that was really my introduction to painting in the traditional painting style. So and I built a portfolio of portraits under her tutelage, and then and mentorship. And then started, you know, looking for work, doing portraits just kind of locally at first, and then I was able to get representation with some of the portrait brokers, and then then I phased out doing illustration work, and just started doing portrait work commissions. And I did that for a couple of years, but needed more than just commission, so then I started doing still life work, and, you know, whatever I thought felt like, well, that's my my time, you know, and painting, but it also wound up being Things that I could sell as well. So, and that's kind of how I wound up here, but I would say, primarily, I'm doing portraits most of the time, maybe like 75% of the time.

Laura Arango Baier: 7:57

Oh yeah. And you know, you definitely, I feel like you were attempting to find the path right of learning how to paint in a time when it was, quite frankly, a challenge to come across that. Because, of course, in the past, it's been, you know, like, especially, even today, modern colleges, I feel like they don't quite teach you to paint. It's more like, okay, just do it and figure it out as you go, which kudos to you for doing that, because that's that's amazing. And then also with illustration, I think illustration is, it's definitely one of the only things, in my opinion, that has somehow retained a little bit of that attempt at teaching or learning how to paint, which I think was a wise choice, but yeah, you know that's it's so fascinating to you know, have gone from illustration and gone back into fine art, knowing that that's actually what you love. What was it like for you when you know you decided to get into painting. Did you find that you had maybe these transferable skills that were useful from illustration, or did you feel like you had to start almost from scratch?

Grace DeVito: 9:11

Um, they it's kind of a little bit of both. I had some skill. I could I could move paint around. But I was using more, like really tiny brushes. The work that I was doing was, it was kind of more very stylized, if you think of like the artist Brueghel, and at the time, in illustration, some of the popular illustrators were brought brawls, or Robert giusti, Marvin Madison, and this, you know, the paintings weren't really large. So, you know, it was using small brush. Although I had been working in oil paint for a while, so So I had that on the one hand, but on the other hand, my drawing skills were really bad. So because, as so many you know illustrator did, there was, you know, you had time constraints. So you a lot of people would use a projector, you know. And of course, it was pretty Internet, and so we weren't getting images off the internet or anything like that. You either had to take the photos yourself, set up, you know, there was a studio that did photography for illustrators with models, right? Or like book covers and things like that. Or you went to the New York Public Library to their picture collection. Or there was a picture collection in a local library. I lived near a town that had a lot of illustrators. You know, they moved there in the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. So then I had to, kind of learn, I had to learn a whole different way of thinking about painting, and that's where, you know, the study with Laurel came in, and her background, I knew a little bit about Frank Riley and his teachings at the Art Students League, and she had studied with a student who had studied directly with Riley. So it was kind of that that training. So, and that worked really well for, like, learning how to paint and, you know, but it, I mean, it certainly takes a lot of time, a lot of time and to learn that way. So, yeah, so I would say I had to, kind of, in a way, start over,

Laura Arango Baier: 12:07

gotcha, yeah, yeah. And it's, I mean, I can only imagine to being, you know, somehow finding out about these, you know, other people who were teaching these classes, and then slowly, kind of like, being like, being like, oh and then this person, and then oh, and then maybe this other person. Whereas today, of course, with the internet, that's so much easier. But I think you mentioned last time to me that you actually started with pastels, right? And then you Well, I created over into oil paint.

Grace DeVito: 12:37

Sort of, I had never worked with pastel. When I was in SBA, I was using acrylic and a particular way, it was almost like cross hatching. And then while I was there, I learned how to use oil paint, but I I I had never used pastel, and not really, like very fond of that kind of the chalky feeling in my on my hands, but the I had, the way that I found Laurel, was I had signed up for a pastel class with another well known artist, and that was her medium. And I thought, well, at the very least, I'll get better at drawing. And then when I was at the class, there was a faculty show, and that's where I saw Laurel's work in oil painting. I was like, oh, that's that's really where I need me. So my time with pastel was really, really limited,

Laura Arango Baier: 13:49

yeah, yeah, even though it's also a really wonderful medium. But there's just the the classic oil paint just, there's something in there too, that's I would I mean, personally, I love oil paint. So there's nothing more. I don't know. There's just something juicy about it. I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense, but there's something just so delicious, like, especially when I looked at your your still lives of like cotton, right? Just those beautiful, wispy sort of edges and texture that you get with with with oil paint, that, of course, pastel can recreate texture, but it's very different from, like, physical texture that you can build with oil paint, which, of course, pastel is still beautiful. I'm not hating on pastel, just, you know, a preference, of course. And actually, that brings me to a question, which is, you know, how do you balance your time between making your commission portrait work and the personal work that you like to make, like your still lives or other wonderful paintings.

Grace DeVito: 14:54

Well, kind of what, how I started that was I would do. Through a commission, and then I felt like I needed a break from the Commission. I needed to do just something for me to have some fun and play around. Not that the commissions were bad in any way, but it really I had, I have constraints, and I have to, you know, raise a client and all that. So the doing still lives was kind of the easiest thing. I could just set something up and and paint and, you know, have fun. And I found that that was where I learned the most, because I could, I was free to do, you know, whatever I wanted, so and then I wound up, kind of building up a bunch of paintings, still like paintings, and a gallerist, Susan Powell, saw my work. And you know, wanted to represent me with the still eyes. And then it became more, you know, I have to produce with the still life, more. And then that becomes the thing you know, like, I know, you start to think, Well, okay, I gotta do something that'll, you know, be good, and maybe, you know, hopefully sell. And then that kind of gets in your head. So then I have to take a farther step back and be like, No, what I'm going to do is not for anybody but me. And so it now. So now I have, like, three, you know, I'll say pods of work, you know, the the commission work, the work for galleries, and then just the play painting, because that's really important to have that sense of playfulness and joy in your work, where you know you can do whatever you want. It's like you know what attracted me and probably everyone else that paints you know probably goes back to childhood and and loving. You know, doing that and that, you know, having that freedom, I'm working more towards that, to have that and everything. And, you know, things are evolving so always,

Laura Arango Baier: 17:34

yeah, yeah. And I love that you mentioned play painting specifically like that, because it's easy, you know, to fall into the habit of, like, well, this is my job now. I'm an artist. This is my job now. And like, I can't, it becomes a bit of, like a rote thing instead of, oh, this is my passion. This is what I enjoy. And it can, it can be a little bit wears you down. It can be a little bit sad. So I love that you mentioned play painting. It's like the way that you remember that joy again, without the feeling of like, oh, I have to paint for this gallery. I have to paint for that person. It's the act of just creating for the sake of creating, you know, and and that's something that, yeah, I totally agree, is so important to maintain. Because, like you said it, it's easier than to pull that feeling back into the aspects that slowly become work, so they don't really feel like work as much anymore, and makes it more enjoyable. But yeah, and then that also makes me wonder a little bit about your commission process, not just like the the, you know, the business side, or like the commission, but also the process of creating the painting itself. What is that like?

Grace DeVito: 18:49

Well, before I start with that, I just want to say one other thing, and I think this is important for all artists. I also have a painting group that meets once a week, and we just work from life, from a model, and that is a great play, but learning experience. And I think everyone try and do that, if they can. So Okay, on to the commission process. Well, I work. I'm exclusively represented by portraits, Inc, and have been for a few years now, been an exclusive artist with them, and so my commissions come through them, and they have quite a few associates that work in different parts of the country, and some have more specialty with family portraits, and others with institutional so when I get a commission, I like to have some time I have kind of. A template of questions I ask the sitter so we have a phone conversation that will could last, you know, up to a half hour or so. I don't want to take up too much of their time, especially, especially if it's for institutional for the children's portraits, it's or family portraits. It's a little bit different kind of question. But, you know, I asked them a lot about themselves, just so I kind of can get a little bit of a feel. I'm often traveling for the sittings. So I it's, it's not like, you know, years, years and years ago, where the artist might travel to a location and spend quite a lot of time with them. I mean, that's just not possible for me. And I don't think you know any many other artists do that at all anymore, but if I can, if the person is local, I will have them come to my studio so I can think of it, but mostly it's travel. So when I get to the client's location, I want to, I sort of have a little idea about them, and then I'll do like a recon of the air, you know, there, if it's, you know, an office, a hospital, college, you know, whatever. And look to find places that would be make a good setting, you know, I'm looking for, you know, lighting and like, what's going on in the background, but also it has to kind of tell a story about them, you know, where the location should give some idea about person. And a lot of times, if the you know, it could be the, I'll call them props, the things, you know, their things, if their doctor, there's going to be some sort of medical thing, or, you know, that shows their specialty. So I'll, I'd like to do that the day before, and then I'll think about it overnight, and a couple of rough ideas, you know, to kind of figure out where I might have the person pose, and then I'll have a sitting photographic, sitting with them. And I'll take a lot of photographs, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 you know, trying different things over the course of a few hours, because I don't, you know, I don't want them to be, you know, hired or bored, but and then I like to do a painted Study for, you know, maybe like, two hours, if I can get them do it. Sometimes, some people are too busy, but I like to do at least, you know, a very brief little study so I can kind of get their, you know, their coloring, because the photos are not good for color. And then I go back to my studio, I look at all the information, um, and it's the same with a family portrait with children, although I find that those sittings, the sittings with children, are more difficult because the children just are not going to do what you want, you know. So you have to kind of go with the flow with them. I always tell the parents, you know, don't be upset with your children, you know, if they, you know, don't want to do something, because it's sort of like a roller coaster, especially with younger, younger the child. Worse it's going to be, you know, there's going to be, you know, fun, and then there's going to be tears, because, you know, they're little, and they don't, you know, after about two seconds, they're, they're done. So it can take longer. And I just try and connect with them and kind of work in, you know, some play and, you know, sneak in some photos, you know that, I think. But so that take can take a little longer if they're a little older than it will usually work out better in terms of timing. But so I go back to the studio, I go through all my photos, I pick out the ones that I think, Oh, this is really well, this will be nice. And I think about the composition and building a composition. So I mean, there's almost never a one per. Perfect photo that I'll work from. I might be like, Oh, I like this, but the hands not right, or the expression or something. So I try and take a lot of photos on under a certain condition, lighting condition, so I'll have a lot to choose from. And then, you know, we move on to another, you know, situation where I will have to, you know, also, you know, have a grouping. And then I narrow it down to about two or three poses that I like, and I'm, then I'll, you know, I'm using Photoshop to, you know, build a composition. Then I'll do painted study, like a, what I would call poster study, something that isn't terribly detailed, just, you know, the big shapes, and I'll then I'll show that to the client. I rather not show them photos, because they're not looking at the photos the same way I am, right? And then there they may pick out something that will really be nice as a photo, but it may not really work as a portrait. And I feel like I heard Daniel green say this years ago, and I think it's really an important thing that the clients are aware of, that is a portrait, isn't I'm not just copying a photo. I'm trying to take the time that I spend with the client, right, and getting to know them, and and then my personal, you know, voice in painting, and my years of painting experience, and then the reference and kind of melding it all together. So it's a distillation of all these things. It's not like, Oh, here's a photo. I like this, and I'm gonna just copy it, you know, so, and I, I don't know, you know, I try to explain that to people, but I think, you know, most of the people who are getting portraits are fairly sophisticated. You in their esthetic anyway. So they, they, you know, they'll get that idea.

Laura Arango Baier: 27:32

Wow, wow. I think that that sounds like a lot of work,

Grace DeVito: 27:41

once they have, they prove something and they like it. Then I'll do a head study that for likeness and and then I'll start on a painting. So it is a long process, usually, if I were just working, you know, on one, one painting, you know, with the sitting and the studies, it's, it's a, it's at least a month's worth of work for like, a three quarter so, but often, you know, I have other, you know, paintings I'm working on, And there's, you know, lead time in between each stage of the process. So I usually say it takes about a year, depending on the size of the painting, you know, from the sitting to the delivery day.

Laura Arango Baier: 28:37

That's, I mean, I assumed it would be a long time, of course, but a year, that's incredible. That's so much work that goes into it. And of course, I mean their life size usually, right? So it makes sense, it will take so long, but wow, I think it must be also very challenging, like you mentioned, you know, the having to explain to people that artists don't they're not cameras, right? Like we're, it's we're like you said, we're distillating something, right? We're distilling we're trying to take something that we perceive with our eyes to go into our brain, right, to go through our hands, which is very different from a camera, like the camera, like you said, you know, it does remove a lot of the beautiful color that we see with our eyes, or moves a lot of the well, reality, because cameras are it creates so much distortion that we don't even notice now, because we're so used to cameras, right? So it must be a challenge also to have to, you know, kind of explain that to people in general every time since we're all so used to cameras now,

Grace DeVito: 29:47

that is true, I think, especially with Instagram and Facebook world. You know, it's that, in a way, has become people's. Reality, even though it isn't real. So, yeah, it is. It's a portrait. Painting really is a an art form of another era. But I think that the really interesting thing about it in this day and age is in a world where we have so much I'll call it throwaway art. You know, the the photography on Instagram, it's here and it's gone, it's so quick. And you know all the things you know digital, and also, you know, in print that we look at, and then it's gone that a portrait is going to be around for a long time, and in many cases, it's handed down to, you know, within a family. So it does have a lot of staying power. I would say it has a lot more cachet than just a photograph, you know, because we, I mean, there's beautiful photography and beautiful portrait photography, but it's still, either now viewed digitally or even in a print. But it's you know, the photo will only, can only last so long, although you know that it may be that may still be a long time, but the portrait, you know, it just has more to it, or, you know, for, certainly for institutional work, it's like a legacy. You know, it's like this person, it's, it's honoring like their hard work and their accomplishment. Because there aren't many people that have a portrait done, you know, of themselves. So when it's hanging on a wall in an institution. It's because they did something, you know, very estimable. So

Laura Arango Baier: 32:10

yeah, if you've been enjoying the podcast and also want to be able to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly BoldBrush live webinars, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories and answer your burning questions in real life, whether you're a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn and spark new ideas. And whether you're stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don't miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next BoldBrush Live Webinar is coming up on August 14, with our special guest, Diego Glazer. You can find the sign up link in the show notes. At BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art, marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that's BOLDBRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special ink FASO.com/podcast, you can make that come true, and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you, day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year. Then start now by going to our special link, FASO.com/podcast, that's FASO.com/podcast, yeah, and I love that. You know, it's, ah, it's, it's, like you said, it's a tradition that goes way, way, way before the camera, of course, and even further back, right? I mean, even in ancient times there, you know, there's evidence of mummies that had the portrait of the person painted on the casket. So it's such an ancient practice to capture another person's likeness and hey, this is what so and so looked like that. I think it makes it like not to not to hate on photography. Be either because, of course, it is its own art. There are other ways to interpret photography, but having that connection to creating something by hand, millimeter by millimeter, is another experience, right? It's another way of really keeping in touch with our forefathers, and also, like you said, representing a person's life on Earth and what they've accomplished, especially with the purchase that you've done, you know, like people in positions of, you know, that are more public positions, which I think that's really incredible. But yeah, and then I was also curious to know, because since you did start out as an illustrator, what was it like when you were, you know, tapering off the sort of illustration to become a full time artist? Was it like a slow and steady sort of thing, or was it cut and go?

Grace DeVito: 35:53

It was more slow, a slower process, because I still needed an income. So while I was, you know, working on getting more portrait work, I still needed to, you know, have another income. So it was a little slower. But once, once I, you know, was getting a certain number of commissions, you know, in a certain time for a certain amount of money, enough to fill up, like a year's worth of time, then that was just okay. Not no no more illustration, just commission work. And I think in some ways it was a little easier for me to do portrait commissions, as opposed to someone who comes out of an art school or Atelier, you know, classically trained, or, you know, however they're trained, but they've not worked with clients before. They've only done work that they wanted to do, you know, 100% them, you know, it was their voice and that. So that transition was a little easier for me. I was used to working with, you know, an art director, and oftentimes, you know, it's, it be, really became kind of art by committee. You know, it was no longer just one art director. It became the marketing department and things like that, which always waters down, you know, a product. But so it was a pretty easy transition,

Laura Arango Baier: 37:38

yeah, and I can imagine, like you said, you know, just having to handle dealing with clients or dealing with other people and reconciling their vision with your vision, right? Because as an illustrator, it's almost never really what you want, right? It's whatever the client wants the client is going to receive. So I think that definitely set you up pretty well, also for commission work with portraiture, except, of course, now you do have your personal touch, right? It's like a little bit of that midway point, although I think you did mention to me last time that you don't really show the client any process pictures either, which I think is very interesting.

Grace DeVito: 38:19

Yes, I think, because sometimes you know things are chugging along, and they're going really good and and that's great when that happens, but then other times, there are struggles. And you know, maybe you know you painted the head in a portrait, the likeness already, but you realize you need to go back and, you know, adjust something. I don't really want to show them, you know, that part of it, like the early stages, or, you know, it's really kind of blocked in. But I do take a lot of photographs while I'm working on the painting, so in different stages. So in the end, I could, I have done, not, not always, but done a little like slideshow of, well, here's where the painting started, and then here's where, you know, it looked like this sort of, you know, speed, just putting them all together. And so that's something, you know, once they've seen the final product,

Laura Arango Baier: 39:32

yeah, yeah, I can imagine it's complicated too, because, from what I've heard from other portrait painters, is that usually people don't like seeing themselves in a portrait. They feel kind of funny about it. And I think because, you know, oftentimes we forget that when we look in the mirror, it's not really how we look, right we're seeing our reflection. So that's why I think a lot of people have such an aversion to seeing themselves on photos or in paintings. Um, so I can imagine how difficult it must be to, oh, here's your painting, and then hope that the person doesn't have, like, a, you know, a natural reaction to not really realizing how they look, right,

Grace DeVito: 40:14

right? Yeah, I know it's always a little shocking when you see, you know, the phone on reverse image, and you're like, ooh, do I look I really like but that's how people see you. We're only used to our mirror reflection, which is different. But I agree. I would say that in institutional portraits, a lot of times, the clients, I mean, they don't really it's not something that they want. It's something that is okay. This is what we do. So, you know, you're you have to get your portrait done, but my goal is to make it a good experience for them, to have it, have it done and, and I think most people have, you know, a little, a little bit of vanity, I guess, but it maybe isn't the exact right word, but there, you know, you want to put your best foot forward, and so they'll, you know, they'll want it to look Good, for sure, but, but but some people are more interested than others in in the, you know, the end product. So, yeah, those children are usually, you know, they may they may not understand. Usually, there's some bribery going on, you know, like, do this, and then afterwards, we go for ice cream, or you get a certain toy or something. And so that's what they're focused on, you know, but which is fun, and I always like to bring a little something for the child afterward, you know, after the sitting. So they have a little I often wonder, like, depending on the age, will they remember the sitting, you know, because a lot of the lot of the children are about four years old, four or five years old. So Well, you know, they may have, like, this little memory of something you know that happened. So, so I hope that they'll remember it fondly, or associate it with something they really like,

Laura Arango Baier: 42:34

yeah, yeah. I think for sure at that age, I mean, they'll probably remember the feeling more than like the actual event. But if you're, if you're, you know, giving them something to look forward to too with, like, a little something, something, I'm sure that they relate it with a positive thing. Because, again, I can imagine working with kids is huge challenge. You know, it's, I can only imagine having to wrangle them into, like, at least some modicum of, like, whatever pose you were hoping to get, or, you know, like, oh, crazy, crazy. But hey, you know, I'm sure you've gotten really good at that with time as well. And actually, I did want to ask you, too, if someone wanted to become a portrait artist like one, the person who takes commissions like you do, what is something really important that you would want that person to know? Or what is something that you would

Grace DeVito: 43:39

recommend if the if it's an artist wanting to do portraits, or if someone wants to commission,

Laura Arango Baier: 43:44

well, well, if an artist wants to do it, yes.

Grace DeVito: 43:50

Well, I'll start with someone wanting to commission to to you know, look at the artwork. And a lot of artists, portraits, Inc, has a great website to look at various styles. There's all kinds of styles there, you know, everything from very impressionistic or representative. It runs a whole gamut and all kinds of medium too. It's not just oil painting, it's it's pastel and charcoal and watercolor. You know, every anything you can, any thing an artist can make a image out of. So find something that appeals to you, like look at that artist portfolio. And one thing that's really good about working with it agency like portrait sync, is that you have someone walking you through the process. Process, you know, and this is how, how it will go and and they also, they as as I do, you know, in prior to working exclusively with them, but I'll guarantee that the client will be happy with the painting, or they do not have to accept it and pay the balance. So there's a certain amount that is paid upfront, and after a certain point in the process, that part is not refundable. But if they don't, you know, they don't want to accept it. But, but even after a painting is done, there is like, Well, are there any things you want changed? You know, is the likeness good? You know, I know there's that famous saying by Sargent, a portrait is a painting with something wrong at the mouth. I know that's quoted all the time, but yeah, so you have to make a little adjustment here and there. But the way I'm working there, there's not like a big surprise at the end. It's not like they never, you know, see where, where it's going, even though I don't show the process pictures. They, you know, they'll have that initial study that I've done, and then the head study. So, so, you know, find someone that you like their work. And you know there are going to be probably more than one person within that style. And then you you know, find what your price range. You know what will work for you. Everything is different ahead. And obviously you know everything from a head and collar to head and shoulders to half length, three quarter a full length, it's all you know, different prices so and then you know you can, you know, work directly with the artist, and then also finding and finding people online, you know, is also great, but you know, try and you know, maybe talk to a prior client if you can, if the artist is willing to share that information, so you feel, you know, more comfortable with that, because it is a lot of money you know that you're spending. You want to have that. And I always work, you know, portraits, Inc, has a contract with the client. Prior to being exclusive. I had a, you know, my own contract when I worked directly with people. So there's, you know, I think that helps the client feel better. But probably the most thing, most important thing is, is that speaking to another client to know that, that you can I think maybe there's a little stereotype about artists, you know, maybe a little, you know, unreliable at some time. So you don't want that. But I have, you know, never had had that problem, and then with artists that want to be portrait artists, look at look at the work that's being done. And it ranges from very like formal, traditional to, you know, more contemporary. Find you know your voice, what you like to do, because whatever you have you put in your portfolio, that will you'll attract that work. So if you don't want to do something that looks traditional, don't do that. And also, portraits. Are can come out just really beautiful and a real, I think, high art, but also at times, like sometimes you have constraints, like, maybe you're doing a posthumous portrait, and you don't have the design or as much control as you would like, and or if a client is very insistent that they want you know this certain thing, and you may not necessarily agree that that's the best way to do something, but you know, they're, they really want it, and they're paying for it. And you know, maybe in the end, that portrait may not be something that you are, that you put on your top 10 you know of your work. So there. That aspect to, you know, to the job. So just, I would say, put together a good portfolio of a good solid 10 pieces and, and, you know, you can either go to the agencies to look for work or start looking on your own?

Laura Arango Baier: 50:28

Yeah, yeah. It's Wow. It's such a complicated, I mean, from someone who you know, maybe hasn't heard too much, it seems like a very deep, sort of complex side of the painting world, right? Because I didn't know that portrait broker still existed. I thought that that was something that wasn't happening as much anymore, but it's really cool to know that that still exists, because then you know, you know, maybe someone who's interested in becoming a portrait artist already does. Portraits might be easier for them to find, like, a proper website, or a proper place for, maybe, to comply, to to have their work on there, which is really cool. And actually, I'm so curious to know, because you mentioned, you know that the person might get, like, after you turn in the portrait, they might get, like, some refinement, right where, like, oh, yeah, you know, maybe this and this. How often would you say that that happens? And then also has, has it ever happened that a painting just doesn't get accepted at all? Just, is that? How common is that?

Grace DeVito: 51:33

I mean, it does have, I've never had a painting not accepted, but I would say probably at least half the, maybe 50% of the time there's a little tweak, you know, like, Ooh, I'm not sure the mouth is right or so. I don't know something, but I try to get that all worked out in my painted study, you know, beforehand. So, so when I do the final it's pretty, pretty. I'm, you know, I know what I need to do. And then if I find it, you know, before I show it to the client, I'm really, I'll look at it, you know, I put it, I put the painting aside for a couple of days, kind of get a fresh eye. And I'll have, you know, someone else look at it, and then I value their opinion and see if they think there's something off, you know, so, and then I'll show it to the client, you know, after I fixed it. But you know, maybe, yeah, I would say maybe 50% maybe a little less now, I think probably more. You know, a few years back, so but, but I have heard stories of other, you know, paintings not being accepted, and sometimes some, you know, there can be difficulties, personality clashes, and they don't want to do and I think I've heard things, you know, I won't name any names, but some artists who were, of, you know, big reputations and also big egos, who didn't want to change things, but I guess, you know, their talent was pretty big too. So if that were the case, they had probably every right to be like, No, this is the way it's done, and that's it, you know?

Laura Arango Baier: 53:37

Yeah, it's one of those push and pull situations, because I'm sure if someone's very renowned, I mean, the client at that point knows kind of what to expect, right, or what what they're getting. But I do also think it's a little bit of a balance, you know, that the client, in the end, is going to have that painting hanging and in their family for a very long time. So there's a level of respect that should be maintained in that sense as well. I think, yeah. And then in terms of diversity, diversification of income, how have you found because, of course, like, I'm guessing the commission work, since it takes so long, it might be a challenge, right? In terms of, like, finances, if you have, like, dry spells or anything in between, how have you managed, you know, to diversify income so that you're not worried about paying bills?

Grace DeVito: 54:34

Well, I've been lucky in that I haven't had a real, you know, bad dry spell. I mean, it definitely are times when I have more commissions than others, but I can usually tell, you know, a number of months out, like, how much, you know, I better make sure I have, you know, another commission coming in, or, you know, build up, and then. Kind of weird. It always seems to go in, like cycles, wind up, you know, getting a bunch, and then, then there'll be a few months where nothing comes in, and then, you know, but I still have these things that I'm working on. I of course, always try and budget, you know, with the income coming in, I do, I get some money up front, and then when the painting is accepted, you know, I'm usually, within a month, I'm usually, you know, paid up. And also, you know, the gallery paintings are come in, you know, to and, but that's more not, I can't depend on it, so, you know, so when it comes in, it's always great and, and, you know, goes into the plot, so to Speak. But I also do some teaching, not a lot, though, a couple of times a year I'll do workshop. So that is another source of income. So it's a little bit, I mean, most of the income is from the portraits, but then maybe 25 to 30% is from other sources. So,

Laura Arango Baier: 56:27

yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, it's really interesting to hear about portrait commissions, because it's fascinating to hear that there are a lot of people who still, you know, ask for portraits. Of course, I understand institutions asking for portraits of of the people who work there, whether it's, you know, like in the justice system, if you have judges or or, you know, any other institution that prefers the hand painted way of doing things. But it's fascinating to hear that there are still people who prefer, you know, reaching out to someone. And they will, they will do it. And it seems to be, like a lot of people, it's a big

Grace DeVito: 57:07

it's a bigger tradition in the south of our country to do family pork, And that, I believe, is really kind of a you uh, a throwback to the colonial America and that the people who settled in the South were more of The initially entered farm gentlemen farmers, that maybe the, you know, in England, the first son inherits the estate. So what happens to the second and third son? And, you know, so they have to find something. And a lot of them, you know, came to America, and they had that tradition, you know, of the grand manner portraits. And it's interesting, a lot of the clients that I've had who are from the south can trace their family lineage to, back to, you know, Colonial America. And, you know, which is very interesting. And then so that it just kind of continued. It's a thing you know, that people do. And then I suppose you know people who are not, maybe originally from the south, or have that history in their family, are seeing other people doing and then you know, so there's that too. Oh, like, Oh, I didn't know you could do that. That's interesting. I really like that. Wouldn't it be lovely to have a painting of my child at this wonderful age that I can have, you know, forever, you know, a piece of fine art of my child, and then even you know my, you know, teenager or adult or, let's have do a family, you know, a conversation piece, you know, with the entire family at our vacation home. You know, something like that. You know, those are provisions that I have had. But, and then in New England, that they settlers in New England were, I mean, they had portraits, because that was the only way to have, you know, see people. And, you know, there were no photographs as well, but it was kind of a different thing. And then I think in as years go by, the wealthier New Englanders had portraits done. I don't know that that is really the case anymore. I have met some people who have, you know, roots in, you know, New England, that they do have family portraits. But it thinks. Research is so much more transitory now that I don't know how much of a factor that is in family portraiture.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:11

Yeah, and I can imagine the internet also influences that and the craziness that is artificial intelligence. But of course, that's, I think, if anything, and this is maybe my personal hope as an artist, that because of things like, you know, artificial intelligence, there will be an even greater push for real artists to make real work, because it just, there's just something in AI portraits or art that's just, it just feels a little gimmicky, it doesn't feel natural, it doesn't feel it feels soulless. And this is, of course, my opinion, people who disagree. But I think, if anything, it might push people back into the traditional arts.

Grace DeVito: 1:00:55

I agree. Who knows how advanced it'll get. And you know, perhaps, you know, someday I will, but I do think that there is a there's a need for human connection. And I mean, certainly, you know, you see it all over the place. You know about people being, feeling isolated and all this stuff, and a lot of it, I think, is because of technology, but having that human connection with someone and working with them to do a portrait that, I mean, those are some of the best experiences that I've had, like getting you know people that I would never meet in my daily life, and it's, it's really wonderful. I think that that's something that people need. And I mean, I listened to when there was a recent thing that the AI took some of the the Beatles work that hadn't been published, and maybe the song wasn't finished, I don't remember. And then it, they finished it, and I listened to it, it was like, Well, it certainly sounds like them and, you know, and everything, but there was something missing from it, like, I don't know, maybe I'm reading into it, but I think it just was, it just didn't seem the same. It's like my husband's family was in furniture making and antique restoration, and, you know, they worked with very old and like, museum quality furniture, and you can see the difference in something that's made by hand and whether the work, the wood, was milled by hand, or was it like a water mill. And like, you can tell, like, how the wood looks up, you know, and how it was made. And there's always a call for that. Like, you can get commercial, like, really good commercial furniture made, and that's nice, but something that's made by hands that is, like, that kind of quality is, that's why people will pay a lot of money for it, you know, a Faberge egg can be manufactured. Like, you could get a fake one or something made that looks really good, but it's not the same,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:35

yeah, the human touch, that craft aspect, like, and again, like, I think it's the same feeling I get walking through a museum, and you look at a painting, and you're like, wow, someone poured over this for probably weeks and weeks, you know, painting this, and here it is, as a testament of them, and they're no longer here, right? I mean, I feel like a lot of commercial things, just, you know, before I go off too much on a tangent. I feel like a lot of commercial things don't really last as long, you know? I feel like there's they break, or it's just the quality just isn't the best. Whereas, you know, handmade things, at least in my experience, it's aimed to be made to last, right? It's aimed to be a piece that will withstand things. And if it doesn't, usually you can take it to someone that can get it repaired, right? And it's, you know, it's a, it's more about this thing that gets passed down, kind of like how you were saying about the gorgeous there's, there's this, ah, I don't know. It's a circle of life to me just embedded in an object.

Grace DeVito: 1:04:46

As I said, my husband's family was in antique restoration and furniture making, and although he did not follow in that career when he was younger, he was taught how to cane chairs and rush. Chairs, you know, as a thing to earn money. And every once in a while, you know, if, you know, if we needed extra money, he would do, do a chair through brother shop. And you know, you'd get these antique chairs, and if you flip them over a lot of times, a person who worked on it, maybe 100 years ago, to repair it, will put their name on it, you know. And that, I was like, Oh, wow, that is so cool. So 100 years ago, what was going on? What was the world like? And this person worked on this chair, and they, you know, they've written their name, you know, usually in graphite, because that doesn't, that won't pay, like a pen or something will so and and now, so when he would do a chair, then he would put his name, Wow, this chair has been around, you know, 200 years, or however long. And it has, you know, seen lot of things, lot of changes. It's going to be, it's been, it's going to be around longer than I will, you know, and, and what, what will be going on in the world, you know, 100 years from now. And I think painting is like that too. You know, it is. It has seen a lot of things, to give it a line down, like, what will be going on and we'll be looking at it?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:35

Yeah, totally. I mean, it's one of those things that I sometimes think about, which is, man, if objects could speak and they could tell you their memories like, wow, that would be an insane thing to consider, because they have so much history. But yeah, do you have any final advice for someone who wants to become a full time artist

Grace DeVito: 1:07:01

practice? Do a lot of practice. The the whole 10,000 hour thing really is true. It's I, I often have talked about with, you know, friends, fellow artists, how difficult it is to be a really good artist, and it takes a long time, kind of like, you know, being a doctor or surgeon. Now, those things are super important and but they're also really appreciated for the time that it takes. I don't think artists are given that same appreciation, you know, for the the work and time that's put in, and how, how dedicated you have to be, you know, to to get good. You know, it's all, I mean, definitely people have start out with different levels of ability and talent, but that'll only get you so far. You you can really do have to put in the hours, and I would even say good hours, like if you practice a bad habit, you're only in grading it. So, you know, we kind of have to learn to do good practice and and all those things. But also, you know, put together a good portfolio. Be aware of what the market is showing you know what it has and, I mean, you don't want to copy. You want to set yourself apart, you know, have your individual voice, but, but it has to be like, be realistic about how your work looks compared to, you know, someone else's, because they you're going to be competing for the same jobs. And it doesn't matter whether you've been doing it, you know, six months or six years it, you know, people are just the work is going to speak for itself. So it has to be, you know, really good?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:21

Yeah, yeah, totally. It's down to the quality of the work and down to good practice, like you said. And then do you have any upcoming shows or workshops that you would like to promote?

Grace DeVito: 1:09:35

Well, I have some workshops. I'm doing an online workshop with the Scottsdale artist school. We haven't set the date yet, but it'll be, it'll be soon, and I will put that on my Instagram and website, but I also am doing an in person workshop with the Scottsdale artist school in January of 20. Six, and that's the 19th through the 22nd I'm also doing another still life workshop, and also doing a still life workshop with the Franciscan life Process Center in Lowell, Michigan, and that's June, 20 to 22nd and that's also 26 and even though it's still live, the principles are all the same. You know that I'm teaching, it's not, oh, it's, this is something different, working all the same. It's, it's, I think of it. Everything is just shapes, shapes that you're putting together, whether it's a face or, you know, a bunch of cotton, it's just about, you know, putting together the shapes. So if you're interested in portraiture, I'm sure I'll be doing also, I don't have dates for this, but I will put information. I do, I do, do a portrait workshop at the Kinsler studio, and that's in Connecticut, and that will be in may sometime of 2026, so I'll have dates when, as soon as they're available. And that will be a portrait one, but, yeah, the principles hold fast. No matter what you're you're doing whatever the subject,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:33

totally, totally. I mean, if you think about it, still life is a portrait of an object.

Grace DeVito: 1:11:40

And I have galleries. Susan Powell fine art in Madison, Connecticut. She's got a great gallery. Anderson fine art in st Simons Island, Georgia, and Beverly McNeil gallery in Birmingham, Alabama, and as well. You know, as I said, I'm like portrait Inc, or portrait commission, but people can contact me, you know, through my website and then, and there's no price difference whether you work with me or The gal, the portrait stank. So yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:22

And of course, I will be including all of your links in the show notes so everyone can go check out your gorgeous work. And yeah, so thank you so much grace.

Grace DeVito: 1:12:32

Well, thank you, Laura. It's been great.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:35

Yeah, it's been a fascinating conversation. Yeah, absolute pleasure.