Show Notes:
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On today's episode, we sat down with John Lasater, a realist painter with a deep love for plein air. We discuss John's artistic journey, from his previous career as a graphic designer, to discovering his passion for painting, to overcoming challenges and finding his unique voice. We also discuss the spiritual and emotional aspects of art, emphasizing the importance of connection, authenticity, and continuous learning. John also shares insights into his artistic influences, techniques, and approach to painting landscapes and portraits, including the use of memory and imagination. We also talked about the value of art history and studying the work of masters, as well as the importance of developing one's own style and vision by continuously asking yourself what do you truly love. John also provides advice for those seeking to pursue a career in art, emphasizing the need for determination, risk-taking, and aligning one's lifestyle with one's passions. Finally, John tells us about his upcoming workshops and his Facebook group community!
John's FASO site:
https://www.lasaterart.com/
John's Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/johnplasater/
John's Facebook Group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/viewscommunity/
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Transcript:
John Lasater: 0:00
Yeah, you know, follow your heart, if your heart saying, I meant to be an artist, you know, make sure you just get everybody you love on board. And if they don't come on board at some point, you've got to it's a it's always a lonely decision to decide to do something risky. But that's the way every good decision every risky decision is. And anyone who's ever succeeded in doing that. It's because they they set this you know, if they did it in preserve their relationships, it's because they set the stage, you know, in a right way, and then took the lead and put yourself on the spot and in and narrowed down to one thing that you want to do. And for me, it was plein air painting was the thing that I needed to focus on. And once you have that in your head, it's very freeing. It's like, okay, that's what I need focus on in and you start to align your future in such a way that you know that it's going to point towards that thing.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:00
Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango, Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast. We are podcast covers art marketing techniques, and all sorts of businesses specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world in order to hear their advice and insights. On today's episode, we sat down with John Lasseter, a realist painter with a deep love for plein air. We discussed John's artistic journey from his previous career as a graphic designer to discovering his passion for painting to overcoming challenges and finding his unique voice. We also discussed the spiritual and emotional aspects of art, emphasizing the importance of connection, authenticity, and continuous learning. John also shares insights into his artistic influences techniques and approach to painting landscapes and portraits, including the use of memory and imagination. We also talked about the value of art history and studying the work of the Masters as well as the importance of developing one's own style and vision. By continuously asking yourself, what do you truly love? John also provides advice for those seeking to pursue a career in art, emphasizing the need for determination, risk taking and aligning one's lifestyle with one's passions. Finally, John tells us about his upcoming workshops and his Facebook group community. Welcome, John to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?
John Lasater: 2:24
Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks, Laura. Appreciate it. Yep. Doing good.
Laura Arango Baier: 2:28
Yeah, of course. Yeah. And I'm excited to have you because as I was telling you before, I think your work is beautiful. Your colors have this vibration in them, especially your Kenyan paintings, I can't stop looking at them. They're like eye candy to me. And then the portraits that you're doing recently, I love them. I can feel like there's a bit of a synergy going on too. I feel like it's very hard for someone to do both landscape and figure. And when you can do both. It's like, Oh, that's amazing.
John Lasater: 2:58
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I know what you're saying. I think it's landscape that maybe is the most intimidating for for people on there's the biggest learning curve, maybe with that. So one point, when I realized my drawing skills were where they needed to be to do still live in portrait. It lost his challenge at that point, or just didn't know what to do with everything else, let's say like the color or the environment that the portraits are in. And so I realized that my biggest learning curve is going to be in landscape at that point. And even now, if you ask me what my favorite painting is, it's not a landscape. My own paintings like I did that to some friends this year, I said, What's your favorite painting? You know, and one of them it was a bowl of, of plums, and the other was something very odd. And then for me, it was a painting. I did have a Iris on my fence row at home, you know, and I guess that's not a landscape. It was more of a still life, really. So something's more special about those. Those paintings of an object, you know, and it's entered right in the middle of the canvas. And
Laura Arango Baier: 4:18
yeah, yeah, that sounds beautiful.
John Lasater: 4:21
Well, I guess I'm still trying to figure out what the ultimate landscape is for me. Oh,
Laura Arango Baier: 4:26
yeah. You might have to go out further out in nature to see what what there might be out there because the Earth has so many varied landscapes. But yeah, yeah, that that's kind of that's very interesting. And we were talking about this a little bit earlier about how you like that, you know, those objects have some substance and there's a bit of a challenge with, we're mentioning like, air, like painting air.
John Lasater: 4:49
Yeah, that's right. It was Leonard Anderson that put it that way that like painting the landscape. It's like painting a box of air. And once I heard for that line, I just noticed it everywhere. And I realized, oh my gosh, as I look at the landscape, it's always a hallway. That's, that's kind of descending into some vanishing point. And even if you put a tree right in the middle of the painting, it's still it's, it's enveloped in this hallway. And at least when you're down on the ground, you know, sometimes you can get a better perspective up high and, and see everything in a different way. But yeah, so the big challenge is how you make that hallway have the right kind of atmospheric distance, and make it maybe original in some way or, you know, kind of out of the ordinary, so
Laura Arango Baier: 5:44
beautiful. Yeah. But before we continue, actually, I wanted to ask you, if you mind telling us a bit about about you, actually, you know, who you are, and also what you do, which now we can understand its landscape, mostly, but you do a little bit of everything. So do you mind telling us tomorrow? Yeah,
John Lasater: 6:01
um, I guess as a young man, I was misdirected to some degree I, I knew I enjoyed being creative. I have a few drawing lessons as a young man, and I just didn't see a future in it. And maybe the world's changed enough, you know, that. The young people can see a vision for that. And and parents also encouraged it. Right. So to be creative. And the world's definitely changing quick. So yeah, I, I began to, I guess, get more visually excited. As I got older, and, you know, started painting at age 30. So I really probably missed out on some training that I could have had earlier on. But I'm really glad that it's actually made me feel young that I've been able to discover something and get excellent at it, or as excellent as, as I am at this point anyway. You know, and I'm 53 now and very excited about the future still. So.
Laura Arango Baier: 7:11
Yeah,
John Lasater: 7:12
so that's kind of who I am and where I came from. And, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 7:17
that's great. Yeah, I don't think you know what, it is never too late. I actually recently interviewed a woman who's sort of painting it like age 50. And she loves it. And she's doing great. Also, I mean, it just, you know, it's, like I said, it's never too late. It, what matters is also that you love it, and that you're doing something that makes you excited to get up in the morning. And you're successful at it, too. So, obviously, you know, with painting, it's very long journey. Because there's always something more to learn. There's always something more to capture. And the more you know, the less you know, EME, like it's very, like, inverse.
John Lasater: 7:57
That's, that's really true. Actually, I think that's an excellent point that should encourage everyone is that from the start. If you're able to apply yourself in a way that there's humility, your work is already beautiful. And so like, you can get so excellent that you quit looking at life, and you quit learning. And there's there's a downward curve at that point, I would say, and wouldn't it Picasso that pointed that out that he was he was aiming to be to become more of a kid, you know, at some point, he was too adult, and he wanted to, like become more childlike, you know, so that's more of a like a, you're heading downhill now. Or going backwards to where you were when you were young? And so? Yeah, I think anyone that's just starting out, or it's only been learning a year or two should never feel discouraged about being in that that place, you know, and 90% of my students would give up if they thought that it was too late, you know, because many of them are past retirement, and just want to participate in this, you know, millennia old tradition that is just wonderful to be a part of. So.
Laura Arango Baier: 9:12
Yeah, I'd love that you call it millennia old because it is one of the oldest art histories truly, like, our super distant ancestors did it and they did it, you know, also, I feel for the same purpose, you know, to understand the world around them and to document and because it just comes naturally, it's like, I don't know, I feel like as kids, we see a wall and we have a crayon and we just want to do something about it. You know? Yeah, that's right. That's what walls were meant for. Yes, they are meant to be drawn on that and also, I wanted to ask you, by the way, Oh, yeah. Yeah, those walls are aching for something on them. Yeah. And by the way, because I'm very cool. curious because I did kind of read a bit of a an interview that you had about a certain voice that you've heard. But I want you to tell us a bit more of the story of what was that moment where you were like, I'm going to pursue Fine Art Full time now. Yeah,
John Lasater: 10:16
well, um, I guess at some point I needed, there was a dark moment of the soul in my 20s, where I needed to figure out whether I even believe in God or not. And I put him to the test and just asked for him to direct my life in a way that would be more satisfying. Because otherwise, I was gonna give up and just follow all of my hedonistic pleasures and do with do whatever I felt like, and I was already a dad at the time, you know? And so, like, everything was telling me I shouldn't. But yeah, there's a dark part of me that I needed to face. And so yeah, just given him that opportunity, very quickly started seeing some things change in my life. And it actually is the impetus that got me into graphic design, because you were aware of that that was in graphic design for a while. And that already was so exciting. I, you know, that any angst over being creative was gone at that moment. So I did that for for about 10 years. But I was only doing it about a year and a half before I found painting. And a friend of mine introduced me to it, his name is Todd Williams. And then I began attending, like painting seminars and workshops. And after about 10 years of graphic design, I had become so enamored with painting, that I was really excited about getting away from the computer screen. I felt like it was hurting my eyes. And I wanted to be in nature I just wanted and I wanted an excuse to see the world. So I, I had done a few plein air events, and could see the potential there for possibly providing for my family. And so went to God again and just said, You know what I want, and I believe that you planted that desire, and I want to experience just, again, you know, your father nature. And so yeah, it wasn't long, maybe two or three years that, that I was eagerly praying about that. And then one day, I heard him say, You got to, you got to worry about people that actually hear him. But here I am, I heard and he said, Any moment, when you're ready, you can do it. And I went, Whoa, and then all of a sudden became scared. Because, you know, I still had strong voices in my life, my parents in my wife's parents that, you know, are making sure I take care of the family and take care of my wife. And of course, my wife was worried about thought too. But I it was, it was actually really good. Because it made me to kind of settle settle into where I was. And I knew at least that that moment was coming at some point. So I was settled for a while. went to an event with a friend and he and I had a few drinks one night and I was like, I just want to quit my job. I just want to do it. I'm just ready. I'm just so ready. You know. And like it became a real tearful conversation with him because he had jumped shipped about he jumped ship. I didn't say that, right? About three, three years before that. Left the commercial world and was painting full time and went home that night and fell asleep and woke up in the middle of the night. And sat up and it was really strange because I never do this. But the room felt quiet. Like it was just completely quiet in the room. And I'm like, what's going on? And, and just heaviness or just something a weighty feeling came over me and I heard it's time. Oh, I'm getting emotional.
Laura Arango Baier: 14:17
Okay. Yeah.
John Lasater: 14:24
And, yeah, I just went back to sleep. And the next morning, my wife rolled over in bed and said, what happens? You know, she, she knew something had happened. And I was like, That is so cool. Yeah, God told me it's time and she said, Okay, you know, and she was still scared of the idea and went into work and just said in two months I need out of here and so that's the way it went down. And immediately from the moment I went back home, I had freelance graphic design work waiting for me from that business and I started scheduling plein air events and did did it well enough at those events that I was able to begin seeing some future in that, and, you know, I was totally unprepared. I was a business major in college. So I should have known better than to, to not have better preparation. But, um, I guess I don't know, God made me crazy enough to not worry about, like, I just don't care about money. Until Until it becomes a problem, you know? So, I had plenty of those moments over the past 1520 years, and it's been 20 years. So, but, uh, yeah, it's been a wild ride. And, you know, I mean, I think the lesson out of that is you know, give the Creator a chance. And, you know, he wants I think he wants to show himself as real, if you want to know if he's real. And so, you know, that's, that's the only message I see in that, I suppose. And it you know, it's, he's become undeniable. And so I'm, I guess I'm a Jesus freak now. So.
Laura Arango Baier: 16:12
Oh, man. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. It sounds like, it's definitely been a turning point for you a precious moment for you. And I'm very grateful that you shared that with us. Because it really is, you know, it's sometimes feel that the that divinity, you know, wants to work through us, right. It wants to express through us and I feel like people like us, we're artists, we definitely are good, you know, candidates back good vessels for that. To see the beauty that is in the world around us, if so many people miss out on or don't notice, because they're too busy. Stuck in their. Their daily, right. So yeah, I completely. Yeah. I mean, I'm not particularly a Jesus freak, but I do feel I do feel that divinity, whenever I paint as well, that there's something. Yeah.
John Lasater: 17:02
Well, I believe he's faithful to show whatever He wants us to follow. So, yes, as long as we acknowledge them, or at least try. Yeah, yeah, acknowledge
Laura Arango Baier: 17:12
that there's something greater than us for sure. Which, I mean, nature is the biggest indicator of that. Yeah. Yeah.
John Lasater: 17:19
And so that's kind of counter to materialism. But I've noticed that materialists can be very miserable people. And so no wonder they feel that way. You know, go and find your art science is good. But find something that really motivates you that takes part in magnifying beauty and magnifying the world around us. And saying, you know, by that you say, it has value, and that makes you want to live life more, you know, and so it just it has this watershed, I guess, effect that is a good thing for us. So,
Laura Arango Baier: 17:55
yeah, yeah. And I feel also there's a there's that feeling of connection. I think when you're too much in the materialistic view of the world, it can become very disenchanting and very disconnected because you see, everything is individual. But when you do see, you know, beyond that, right, for example, like a tree isn't just a tree, it has roots and the roots touch the Earth and the Earth touches everything around it. It's everything is connected. And I'm remembering that it's so important. Because even the trees right for the birds nests in the trees, the trees provide pollen, and they also have more trees with other trees and they provide fruit as well there's there's a whole ecosystem around the whole universe. That is so
John Lasater: 18:38
well said. And it can't be overstated. It sounds sappy, but it's real. You know, and you really see it as artists like you see that the way colors connect, even, you know, the color of the ground moves up into the tree. And so that you there's a visual you see the visual connectedness, you know, you know, there's roots, probably from from learning from science, science, but you see that connectedness, the way things want to move into one another. And it's, it's a lovely thought it really is. And it's it's most it motivates beauty and in music, let's say or, you know, like, notes can't just be harsh. They have to, like flow into one another in a way that carries you along and connects the whole thing together as one song right? It's the same with a painting. So
Laura Arango Baier: 19:30
beautiful. Yeah, it's a symphony paintings are a symphony of color. Yes. Yeah. And
John Lasater: 19:36
even the lines, you know, you could even say in drawing it, you see that connectedness as well. So in in values, you know, so.
Laura Arango Baier: 19:44
Exactly, yeah. Because especially with painting, like you're saying, you're not just painting like a person, right? You also need to paint the backgrounds and it has to make sense with the person they have to exist within their environment. They aren't just a little sticker, right? You can't paint someone is just a sticker. But in the realism world, right? We want to involve them in the ambiance in the environment, like you were saying, you know, bring it back to that painting of air, right painting the air. There's not a single moment when we're not touching the air or the ground, right? Or at least something that's touching the ground like that. There's that connectedness again. Yeah. Very
John Lasater: 20:18
good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of a metaphor for the spiritual world to hopefully, and we've kind of feel it, you know, and,
Laura Arango Baier: 20:28
yeah, especially as artists, like I said, you know, we're very sensitive. But then I also wanted to know, because I see, I saw I saw on your Instagram that you've been doing a few copies or a few, you know, explorations, right. And I saw that you also really liked Kuro, which I love Corona. He's amazing. I wanted to know who your influences are in your paintings?
John Lasater: 20:53
Well, that's a great thing to talk about. Because I think at some point, I became unsatisfied. Looking at at my peers, and just going to plein air events, and just looking at nature, and it seemed like, there's, there's got to be another teacher here. You know, it can't just be what I'm what I'm already seeing and trying to compete against, so to speak. And I mean, in competition, it's like, who can be more original, not just competing for money or prizes? So I'm actually got to go study with Israel hershberg, in Italy, and he, he did a great job of of lashing me up and down about the fact that I didn't really understand art history. I knew. I knew the ones I had been taught through workshops, which was John Singer, Sargent Roya. Those were the only names I'd ever heard. Pretty much, you know, and it seemed like everybody was aiming to be one of those two artists. Yeah. But that was just in the small culture, the world that I was in. And so he, Israel, you know, he said, you're here in Italy, you need to widen and expand what you understand in what what, you know, you need to understand this tradition you're coming from, because he said, it's like, if you were a cellist, let's say, and you and you started playing your own songs, you know, and then you got up on a stage and you started playing the songs that you'd written, but you'd never learned Bach, or Mozart or any of any of the greats, then you're kind of doing a disservice to history. And I was like, wow, that's really profound thought. And so I came back very affected by that and of course, affected by everything I'd seen. I mean, for instance, I went to Siena. And I went into the Duomo, and I went into the museum. And then I went back to the bus. And he said, Did you go see the good and bad government painting? And I said, No, and he goes, you missed that one. That's why I brought you here, you know, and he lashed me up and down about that one. So I had to learn about the good and bad government painting from the internet. So anyway, if I were to go back, I have a much better understanding and would really soak it up much better than I did. But I would say after learning from Israel, Herzberg, I did go to the Louvre and I went to the Orsay and got a really good education from those museums, and from the Rights Museum in the Netherlands. So yeah, anyway, at least in Western art history. And spend a lot of time and study and so the study is, has deeply affected me. And now that I look back in, in read books, for instance, I'm reading Da Vinci's notes, and even he said, It's better to imitate the antique than modern work. I'm reading here, but painting declines and deteriorates from age to age when painters have no other standard than painting already done. And then he pointed, pointed out how the Roman the Romans, you know, had a look and they never looked outside of what they did. But he was pointing out that that was an example of originality never came out of that because they never looked backwards very far. So anyway, I think if DaVinci said it, that's probably probably something to pay attention to.
Laura Arango Baier: 24:46
It's very wise, theory wise.
John Lasater: 24:50
But, you know, like, I, I definitely liked Kuro and I was introduced to him mostly through Israel Hertzberg and As I look at Corona work that he did once he returned to France, though I don't like it as much. So what he whatever he he he did from plein air in Italy. Wow. It's just brilliant. And also the way he applied the paint was very sketchy, you know. And so that's an aesthetic we all appreciate now and he didn't at the time he didn't think that was going to have any value. But very quickly it did. You know, the Impressionists actually started to try to mimic his his sketchy sketches. And they they even started collecting them like they got owned one of one of my favorites of Kerberos so they guys another influence that I appreciate a lot a lot of French painters Pissarro, and, and Brock like George Brock because he French think he is. Maybe he might be Swiss or something.
Laura Arango Baier: 25:55
Yeah, that's a really good group. I definitely see the Impressionist influence in your work for sure. The end the mannerist with, especially with the recent portrait, which I absolutely love, the portrait that you have, it's behind you right now for our listeners. You can check it out on the video, or on on John's Instagram because it's there as well. Gorgeous, gorgeous.
John Lasater: 26:17
Thank you. I don't want to leave out American influences. I love what Whistler Whistler and Degas both of them actually wear this great bridge between neoclassicism and Impressionism. And they, they kind of carried with them a love of history and a love of those periods of painting. And even you know, before that, of course, Whistler was a big fan of Alaska is and so I don't know, I think that showed the kind of broad appreciation that I hoped to have. And I love what they did with it. They, they were both they gone. And Whistler would, it seemed like there's their paintings were always in a perpetual state of unfinished newness, you know, and so if if I could be willing to do that, and not always take the painting right to the edge, immediately, but work in the parts that are important and kind of see how long I can keep it in that, that that state, you know, the better the painting ends up being to me. So? Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 27:29
Yeah, there's, I mean, there's value in every layer of the painting, right? I mean, even down to the perimeter, right? Where we just put like one color in the background to work on top of, it's still useful, right? So I totally understand that it can be so hard to leave it uncovered, because it feels like Oh, it feels like I need to fill this in. But yeah, that's another
John Lasater: 27:51
sometimes like, if you wait, and then you fill in like a corner that you had left undone. There's a really, like, just elating feel elated feeling that comes from that. Like, it's like, oh, it's done. Like, it was waiting for that moment to finally finish that edge. Or to put this there that there? And how many times have I painted to the edge way too soon. And it was frustrating that I had that out there, you know, and so like, I'd much rather do that at the right moment, you know, and, yeah, you could relate that back to music. There's, you think of even the process of painting, as a song like that you want to enjoy, you want to enjoy the song, you know, and it has a climax and it has a good finish. So there's other American painters, like from the 20th century, and it would be that whole I guess New York, sort of flat plain painting. I don't know what to call it. I guess nowadays, they call it perceptual painting, but it was Lois Dodd and Fairfield Porter. There's others aren't coming to mind right now. But yeah, I really liked looking at their work. And I'm just like, Ah, that was a real appropriate Edward Hopper, real appropriate, sort of new American look that's still embraced representational painting. And so I think of them as almost heroes that, that they carried on that tradition, but in a modern way, and it it really seems to fit the the art for art's sake. thing that that the Bohemian artists, you know, kind of handed down to us and I don't like where art went in certain periods, but I definitely love how they handled the visual world and yeah, so I guess it's maybe as far as I go with modern art, except they do like, you know, like, some of the expressionism like Franz Kline, I just, I think I could totally enjoy his paintings all around my house. The black and whites here. Easily Did you know? To me, that's really cool because it's like he was trying to connect to the visual world. And he was trying to do these gestures that are very childlike and playful that might look like something or might not, you know, and just building the rectangular Canvas in such a way that that it has enough substance and beauty to it, just by the marks or the shapes, you know. So, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 30:28
there's something in everything that that draws us in, right. I mean, for example, if like, back to music, like, there might be a type of music, you don't like that maybe there's like a song in that genre that maybe does draw you in, and there's something about it. And I find that most of the times, like, there are those certain pieces and a certain like with with paintings or with music, that they reflect something to us about ourselves also, which is why we're drawn to them. Up BoldBrush We inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity, and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles, and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe up to sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com. That's BOLDBRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link facile.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true. And also get over 50% off your first year on your artists website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly ecommerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor, the art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step guides on what you should be doing today, right now in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link faso.com/podcast. That's FASO.com/podcast. And actually that that segues really nicely into my next question, surprisingly, which is, how have you found your voice? And then what advice would you give to someone who's trying to find their artistic voice?
John Lasater: 32:51
Yeah, so I think I've probably shared this in other interviews. But I, as a teacher, I'm also teach quite a bit, I think of three teachers that helped us become self taught. One is nature itself, which is where we start really, you know, it's like we, when you're a child, you're trying to mimic things you've seen or, and they're filtering through you, you can't help that. But So nature is a great teacher. And then our history is a great teacher. And so I think you need to really look and develop those role models. And I would say from history, like, yeah, yeah, you can have a modern teacher, you can have a contemporary teacher that you put yourself under, but they're, if they're a good teacher, they're pointing you back to the their influences. And so, at some point, you need to come to terms with that, once you've tried your hand at painting and want to do something excellent and worthy, then go back and look at great painters, and choose, you know, eight to 10 that, that that you connect with, I guess, you know, or that you that you think you'd like to aim for. And I think in mimicking them, you, you begin to find who you are, because you were drawn to them in the first place. Hopefully out of the purity of your own desires. So So that's the second teacher is our history. And then the third is your imagination. And you know, the filtering through us, you can't help but but integrate some imagination when you're looking at something and trying to translate it. But even more so I would say, you know, be very childlike in the way you, you put it on and then use your imagination to try to remember what it was you saw, rather than just seeing yourself as just think Dickinson used to teach that, that you're taking in data through your eyes and you want it to bypass the mind and go straight into The arm to the canvas. And that's kind of cool, you know, to try. But at the same time that the messed up, things that happen in your mind are kind of fun, right? Like, the modern world appreciates that. And so, yeah, let let those those things you see, get messed up and in, bring yourself to be able to leave it that way, you know. So I think it was Henry Robert Henry, I said at the beginning of the art spirit that he wished he could start an art school that had three levels, you know, you know, this adage that he came out with, he said, he wanted, you know, the model on the first floor, he wanted the beginner students to have to go up to the third floor, to paint or to draw, and he wanted the more advanced students to be on the second floor. And so they would have to come down to the first floor and look at the model and then run up to their their easel, and be one of those beginner students to get worn out going up to the second floor. And so they quit coming back down so much to look, you know, and I think that's actually pretty neat. So it gets you to commit to memory, what you think you're seeing, and what comes out of that. Hopefully, he is more beautiful and more human, and not so perfectionistic. So
Laura Arango Baier: 36:18
Oh, my gosh, that is? Yes. I love that. Because I actually recently mentioned this to someone that I think memory is the most underrated part of painting. Like I think so many people get very caught up in and I think also because of the camera. Because we're we've been spoiled with the ease of having cameras, and just being able to photograph things and Okay, got it. But that, you know, with memory, you know, having to commit yourself to understand something to look at a figure and remember, okay, this is what's going on here and then having to completely go somewhere else to figure it out. That's amazing. Yeah.
John Lasater: 37:00
And your originality goes up in what you ignore, actually. So like, I mean, I remember Penny figured it had their arms crossed in their lap or something like that. And I think probably in the lighting that they were in the the arms were disappearing somewhat into the fabric didn't pay attention, I was thinking of everything around them that made their head look right, or their legs or whatever. And I recall having that experiences, I was teaching my students to try to paint from memory. And I was like, Well, I don't even remember what the arms look like. But I'm gonna go ahead and just paint skin tone in there, let's say but without any form, or a remembrance of what the lines look like or anything. And it turned out a more appropriate, let's say, you know, reenvisioning of what was going on in that area, then if I had really noticed all the contour lines and done them just right, you know? Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 38:00
yeah, it's more fleeting, but more like natural. And interestingly, in the academies, there was this, this teacher, he has a very long French name. But he wrote a book on the practice of memory in drawing, I think that's the title of a book. And the final exam he would give his students is actually something similar to the writer, the art spirit, he would force them to go into the Louvre, look at a painting, and then go home and paint it from memory, only the whole painting and the results, because in the in the book, you can see the images of the students work. It was so close, it was like, I want to say 90 to 99% accurate to the painting that they were copying down to like, I remember one of them had like a rug or something. And the rug had a pattern guy got it, or whoever painted it, they got it. And I was like, oh, imagine memorizing all of that.
John Lasater: 38:58
Yeah, maybe he misunderstood the point of the exercise. Because some people would have a more visual memory. Like, my daughter, I have a daughter that when she was five or seven, I remember her going, I'm gonna remember that she goes with her eyes. She literally could remember a moment that way, she would file it away. It's like a camera shot with her eyes. And some people just have that ability. So yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, the exercise I would say, actually, is to see, notice the things that you don't notice. You know, it's like, that tells you a lot about who you are. And what matters to you. You know, it might even be scary. It might show you something about yourself. You don't like you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I often tell me pay attention to that's the question. Yes.
Laura Arango Baier: 39:51
Yeah. And I often tell friends who are curious about painting or struggling with the DSA? Yeah, I mean, when you're painting you're facing your demons. Sometimes you have to face the fact that maybe you don't see things as they are, obviously, we see things as we are. But trying to get more and more objective can be really challenging because it's almost like we're fighting our own brain or our own lived experience that may or may not be objective. So that's that's the other layer of challenge when it comes to painting. But when you use it, right, that's what really helps you play around with, with how you visualize the world, how you see the world and you translate it on the canvas, like how you were saying with that imagination you're going from, from the eye into the brain and bypassing it out the hand? Yeah. Yeah. That's really great. And then I now I really want to talk about a bit more about marketing. And I wanted to ask you, what has been the most useful sales tool for you?
John Lasater: 40:56
Well, I mean, FASO has been great. I know you want me to say that? They,
Laura Arango Baier: 41:02
you can say it, if you if you really feel it. I
John Lasater: 41:05
do. I do. Actually, I have really enjoyed being on, I was a very independent person, at the time they came to me and in, yes, that I get a website with FASO. And I have, I've really come to appreciate the ability to have, you know, an ecommerce side to it. And so I've been using it, I tried to hide it, I kind of make little galleries for just a select group of people, and then I'll try to sell to those people. And so it's been nice to have that functionality. So So that's been great, actually. And I have sold quite a few through the, through the website. So I'm very grateful for that. I have never been that acceptable to galleries, I think, because I cannot bring myself to repeat very often. And so it's like, I'm just trying to paint everything in the world at least once you know what I mean? It's just seems like, I don't know where that part of my personality came from. So yeah, I, I haven't found a home in the gallery world so much. And I tried early on, and I've quit trying, because it would be useless to get into great galleries unless they really wanted to represent me. And we're excited about that. So I've kind of put that on the shelf. I'll be okay with that. Someday, if somebody comes to me and wants to represent, right now I let just regional galleries represent me and many of them would be laughable to my peers. But I've sold through those places just fine. And so there's not a whole lot of prestige, maybe in some of them. But it's really fun. Like one lady that lives in the middle of nowhere. That's a potter and a sculptor. She She has my work in her house. And she has groups of people that come and she'll serve them a meal, and she'll walk them around the house and show him some of the paintings. She hasn't. I've sold through there quite a bit. So that's really fun. Yeah, by the way, you need to look that lady up. Her name's Ingrid. And PDS did a special about her they did a movie. It was they have a show called Deep South, I think it is or something like that. And they, but they did an episode called Ingrid. And that's about an hour and a half movie on her life. And it's so interesting. It's just terribly interesting. She's like, a feminist dream, because she she even left her family at one point and just went to the middle of nowhere to become who she is. And you know, she's very honest about those parts of her life, you know, and they're just beautiful. So, yeah, very good movie. Yeah. So I'm honored to be associated with her but it's not it's not like it's not a prestigious gallery, I would say, you know, necessarily. So I guess it's just been getting to know my collectors has been the greatest marketing technique for me. I do enjoy people and so you know, go into plein air events, exposing myself to lots of lots of people seeing me outdoors painting. Doing doing well those events, so continuing to go and go and go so that you know once in a while I'd win something or you know, that's, that's opened up a world of collectors to me. And so those become your best followers. So you don't need to meet the people you know, and then then they see that they like things about you and you connect through conversation. And then when they when they start following you on Instagram and Facebook. They have they already have that background with you And so you'll get a lot of sales that way, you know. And so that's really exciting when somebody that I met 12 years ago, that's been following me all 12 years, you know, comes to me for a commission or, or says, you know, it's been 10 years, since I've bought a painting from you. And now I want to buy one. And you know, and so, a lot of those will just pop out of the woodwork. There's other streams of income for, for a self employed person, you know, and I know a lot of friends have started making prints and other ancillary products, but I avoid that, like, I'm not interested in that at all. But I love teaching. And so once I started finding, teaching, there's all kinds of ways to make make little streams of income as a teacher, and you know, we're all becoming aware of that very quickly. I think it was Patrick, aka Zelensky, or something like that, I was just Yeah, I was just on his Instagram page the other day and realize he's got this link tree, with all kinds of opportunities that you can learn from him, and so probably smart way of doing it. I'm gonna let him have it, though, because I'm more into teaching regionally now. And I really love face to face teaching. And so I live in the most dry part of the United States for doing that kind of thing. And I can still make a pretty decent stream of income through that. So there's hope for anyone I would say.
Laura Arango Baier: 46:32
Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, I love that you mentioned that, that there's hope for anyone, because we all have different personalities, we all have different ways that we like to interact with the world. And you seem like, you know, for what you mentioned, you really, really prefer in person or, you know, close by or, and that works. I mean, you're able to make a living with, you know, these regional galleries, and, you know, this whole prestige thing, that's, that's whatever, what matters is that you're doing what you love, and that you're selling. And there are people who are buying these pieces, we're enjoying them so much, that they come back to you for more, you know, 10 years later, like you said, I think that's, that's one of the beautiful parts about being a painter is it's not just the prestige, it's also the actual connection with people, which is, it brings back to what we were saying about spirituality, it's, it's with connecting with others, in a very authentic way. And the people who love your work, they resonate with you, right, they resonate. And they, they they match in a way, and that's why they come back. Yeah. Right on. Yeah. Yeah. And then I wanted to ask you, you know, what has been the greatest challenge that you've overcome in your career, you know, business wise with your artwork?
John Lasater: 47:45
Good question. greatest challenge, really, is just been making it through the dry times. You know, it's easy to be a painter when things are really rolling. But there's usually seasons in every year where I've got to push through. And there's also seasons that are two or three years long, you know, like, I would say, COVID, probably taught us all that, you know, and so there's, there are big waves in going on in the timeline that we're hopeless to predict. So I would, I would just say the motivation is extremely important. And so and being authentic with yourself. Yeah, so I think it's really important to know, to know who you are, begin writing and kind of formulating your thoughts in such a way that you can defend who you are. Let's just imagine that in five days, you have to face an interview like this, or you have to face a curator, that's going to ask you why should I look at your work and, and see any validity in it. And that's a that's a discouraging thing to face for a lot, probably a lot of people. But if you will just subject yourself to that, and say, Well, I'm proud probably should try to find that out. And it really causes you to face it, and to, to maybe see where the flaws are and your thinking or, you know, just areas that maybe it would be better to try to figure out. And, you know, I don't know, I'm sure it's really painful. I I faced that when Israel Hertzberg asked me, you know, whether I do art history or not, and I figured out I was a completely different painter than I thought I was because of doing that. That is strange, isn't it? So you, you think that I would say a lot of artists think that John Singer Sargent is, is the painter they should aim for, but it's because they've only been painting for three to five years, they went to some workshops where they learn that name. They started looking at his art and saying, Well, yeah, that's pretty dang good. And what they don't realize is, it's perfect. Like you're aiming for perfection, and you're never going to hit it. So who are you really? You know, who are you really who you got to know and learn to appreciate maybe some of the more human painters that were never satisfied with what they did. You know, that's why they got that's why I love they got it because you can just tell this guy. He wasn't. He wasn't a master draftsman from the start. As I recall, his peers even commented on that about him that early on, he just wasn't that great of a draftsman. And so, you know, he had, he had to grow in those areas. And but in the growing, I think he just, he never was satisfied. And so I don't even remember what your question was. But here we are biggest challenge. Biggest challenge. So yeah, the challenge has just been facing those, those really deep questions. And I would say, Now, come hell or high water, I am prepared for the future. Because I know who I am. And I know what I want to do every day. And I would even be willing to be poor, and live in a tent in order to do this. Because I'm well, I mean, I feel a calling a sense of calling to it as well. But you know, if times get rough, hey, I'm printing gold here, I could I could paint a nine by 12 and sell it to somebody for 50 bucks. Even even at my worst, I could at least probably get that out of somebody. And well, if I did 10 of those a day, you know, that's a pretty good living. So, you know, the potential is always there. And people need beauty at the hard times, too. And so I think it would always be possible to sell paintings to people. But at what, at what, you know, price point is the question, so.
Laura Arango Baier: 52:05
Yeah, wow. I love that. It's very inspiring. You know, definitely the I do agree. You know, when you're, when you're learning how to paint and you're you're trying to move forward with your with your work. It is a challenge, you know, learning to get to know yourself, instead of, you know, letting yourself get caught up in other people's vision. Right, like, Sergeant, I love that. You mentioned sergeant, because I know so many people who mentioned him. And I liked sergeant. I like his work, but it isn't necessarily what I would aim for. Yeah. I mean, he's gorgeous. Say with Alaska, so I know so many people who make off Alaska, Cisco says that like, Yeah, but that's like, oh, I mean, how many people can really reach that? And then also,
John Lasater: 52:50
sergeant was aiming to be Velasquez? Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 52:53
exactly. And it came out a totally different way. So instead of like, looking at him, you know, I often think also like maybe looking at the person that they're looking at, right? If I look at someone and they're looking at someone else, why don't I just look at their source, as well because that also brings interest but also only if I'm truly drawn to it because we I think we get so pulled into like the all the technique is amazing that we miss out on the more I guess, like creative side of painting. And I totally agree, you know, knowing how to talk about your work and really figuring out where you you want to go and your vision not like spheroids vision for or Sergeant's vision or the last because his vision that's your vision, too. And your unique voice in the world because you don't want to just paint like someone else. Right. That's why I like that you mentioned, you know, having like eight to 10 artists that you look at in art history. It gives you that breadth. And they all show you different things. And you have to Yeah, I guess mix it all in and try to figure out, you know, what comes out and what comes out? Just you you know.
John Lasater: 54:00
Beautiful, yeah, especially if those eight to 10 are somewhat diverse. You know, I think that's important too. I think everyone should probably have a renaissance or maybe Mughals from India or some sort of source like that, that was from that period. Because they taught us so much about geometry and I guess the dispersion of color in such a way that it was beautiful, but also harmonious you know, and that kind of thing. You know, and so there's various periods that you probably dip into but find the one that you know that you connect to the most and yes, some some artists are just too similar like, like if you say Titian Velasquez and John Singer Sargent, you're talking about three very perfect painting. Last year's was more human. I would say I love that. That he wasn't just doing society portraits. But yeah, yeah, he
Laura Arango Baier: 55:03
definitely followed
John Lasater: 55:05
those three years so similar that maybe you should add a few more.
Laura Arango Baier: 55:09
Yeah, yeah, definitely from different time periods. I like that you mentioned that. Yeah, because it's easy to get caught up in like, one little piece of history. And all of those people were looking at each other, too. So, you know, I actually heard recently that instead of looking at an artist as an individual, it's better to look at them as time like a group of artists will work together, kind of like the Impressionists, they were all looking at each other and learning from each other. So it's good to divide up a little bit more, expand that insolence. That's
John Lasater: 55:42
really well said and plus, Sargent was part of the Impressionist era. And he was actually trying to mimic the Impressionists many times. And so he was loving what he was seeing this more crude way of putting the paint on. And probably as a perfectionist, he was, are just having such a great skill set. He was trying to figure out the spirit of art. And like, how do I show a little more spirit in what I do? And you know, and so if all you look at is this society, portraits where the skills, you know, what was coming out, and also there was a, there was a simplification in the way painted to that was admirable. But obviously, require way more skill than very slow, tight drawing, you know, and so, so he was also kind of showing off his skill and that simplification as well. So, anyway, I think he was aiming to be a little more like the Impressionist. And so that says something to that's worth noting, you know,
Laura Arango Baier: 56:40
I agree. Yeah, yeah. And in the way he worked, also, it's very obvious, because I heard a couple things about how you work, which is used to have history was huge. So you could step back really, really far away. Because of course, you capture likeness from distance more than from seeing features. And then also, I heard that he used to wipe off the face. Often, like he never really did it the first time around. He did it after various times of trying and failing and trying and sailing. So that also, you know, gives you a bit of relief that he didn't actually do it in one go. He hit the road hard and really tried to get it. Yeah, he wanted
John Lasater: 57:21
to look like a first pass, though, right? He wasn't embracing layers quite as much. And yeah, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 57:26
that's where he would wipe it off completely, if it just wasn't working out. And then he'd go for it again, and again, and again. And I think that that determination that he had, is something definitely to imitate, not so much the end result of his work, right? Yeah.
John Lasater: 57:40
And I don't mean to decry him. I just feel like I'm the only voice saying, Maybe we should think about some other art.
Laura Arango Baier: 57:46
I totally agree. I'm totally with you. I don't want to say he's overrated, because he isn't he is wonderful. But there are other really, really beautiful painters out there that are less well known, and that deserve the same merits of how hard they worked and how beautiful their their work was. So yeah, I'm totally with you. And, by the way, I did want to know, also, final piece of advice for someone who really wants to jump into this career full time.
John Lasater: 58:20
Yeah. Well, you know, I gave a bit of the story, just how I came to that point. And, you know, that must seem very daunting to think that you might have to be dependent on God or whatever. But you know, I think there is there something to exposing yourself to that kind of humility. I you know, I'm just really I can't see the future. And yeah, I think you should just at the moment, it seems right, do it. And make sure you don't have too many detracting voices there that that are stopping you. And so if, if there's this pragmatic side to you that will see you don't ever know that it's not your, your dad in your head telling you, you know, you should never do that. You gotta have one year of, you know, salary saved up before you ever take a risk like that. Well, you gotta get that voice out of your head. I'm sorry. It might be good advice. And it is it's good advice. But um, yeah, you know, follow your heart. If you're hard saying, I meant to be an artist. You know, make sure you just get everybody you love on board. And if they don't come on board, at some point, you've got to it's a it's always a lonely decision to decide to do something risky. But that's the way every good decision, every risky decision is. And anyone who's ever succeeded in doing that. It's because they they set this you know, if they did it and preserve their relationships, it's because they set the stage, you know, in a right way, and then took the leap. And so, um, you know, a friend of mine, named rich Davis took me through that exercise at one point. And he got me to realize what I wanted to do. And he said, Okay, well, then how are you going to do that thing you want to do. So some of us don't even know what we want to do, you know, you're juggling too many ideas. So, go through the exercise of put yourself on the spot and in and narrow down to one thing that you want to do. If for me, it was plein air painting was the thing that I needed to focus on. And once you have that in your head, it's very freeing. It's like, okay, that's what I need focus on in, and you start to align your future in such a way that, you know, that it's going to point towards that thing. And, you know, give it the time, it needs to bring people on board. But yeah, I think that's why the Bible discourages getting married at off. Because well, not your divided you ever divided intention, you know, that has to be shared with someone else. And so you know, if you're married, most people are, they have to, or at least, partnered up with somebody, they have to, you know, figure out how to negotiate it, so. But you really always should follow the thing, you know, you're supposed to do or want to do really bad. You know, so it really impractical. And so you've got to figure out how to align that also with your desire for lifestyle. And so if your lifestyle requires a lot of money, I'm sorry, you're gonna have a hard time making that jump? It's never a good idea. Don't do it. Don't jump, you know. You have to embrace the ups and the downs that's gonna come with it. I'm sorry. But
Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:57
yeah, yeah. And I mean, I liked that you bring that up, because you can still have a good life from from this career. Sure, it won't maybe include having like a Ferrari or something. But I find that most artists don't really have an interest in that, unless maybe they're in the contemporary art world, I feel like people who are more of in our genre of like realism, there's more of a sensitivity to, you know, the slow life, more so than the flashy life, at least from my perspective, that listeners can disagree, that's fine. But I think at least Yeah, from my perspective, everyone I've met has been very humble and just happy to even be doing this for a living.
John Lasater: 1:02:39
Yeah, yeah, for real. And it changes your perspective on everything, you know, to be living your life around something you love doing. Wow. It's like everything change, you know, your perspective on, you know, anything that used to occupy your mind now is in in that context, and it's just amazing how the world changes, and it's sort of washes you in a way that is really good. So so it's worth doing, I'm telling you, it's worth doing. But change, you change your expectations on your lifestyle, because you don't know the power of that love. And that that aligned life that that is so right, you know, yeah, until you do it.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:30
Yeah. And it's definitely more fulfilling, I think. It's, it's more fulfilling than any money could ever buy, right? Like, money can only take you so far. But what's the point of money if you have a void inside of you that you want to fill with love? Like money can't buy love?
John Lasater: 1:03:48
Right, very good. Very good. It seems like your life is that way, too, from some of the things you were telling me ahead of time? Yeah. Yeah. See that? I can see the AHA or the, you know what I'm saying? So Oh,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:04:00
yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I completely agree with you. Yes. There's something beautiful, like we were saying earlier about that deeper spiritual connection. It's much more fulfilling that I mean, I would do this for free type of thing, right? Where like, I enjoy this so much that I want to give back to the world rather than take. So it's, yeah, yeah, it's a totally different perspective. Once you're doing this, for sure. Yeah.
John Lasater: 1:04:30
You know, you really should do whatever it takes to make it. But there are certain things that you can do that might hurt your conscience a little bit. You know, like, I would be hurting my conscious to do some of the things I've seen my peers doing, but and I'm not I'm not saying they're wrong. It's just that they can do it. And I can't bring myself to do certain things. And I don't know where that comes from, but it's just, I've tried this and that and I've just felt I felt low because I compromised in that way. And so I don't want that feeling ever again, you know? So that's another thing to remember too is it's really good to to be aware of your conscience, you know? And yeah, don't follow it down, don't don't follow everybody's pattern or doing things. So, yes,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:05:24
yeah, having your own set of unique values that align with, you know, your, your manner of living, for sure. I agree. I mean, everyone has their own path, and everyone can choose to do as they as they want. I also, you know, there are things that I definitely wouldn't do either. And that's because they don't align with my values, and that's fine. But you gotta you can do what you can do with what you've got, right? Like with your own values, and how you want to live your life. And you're a good example of that. You're definitely living through how you want to live. And you're happy to take on, you know, the responsibility of of what that means as well. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And by the way, I know you also have a studio that you'd like to teach in. But do you also have any upcoming workshops that you want to mention?
John Lasater: 1:06:14
Yeah, there's, there's a couple that I would mention. One of them's full, I've got a portrait workshop coming up. But the one that I've got coming up in September, September 26, to 28, is what I'm very excited about. I did it last year, in this really great space and Tulsa, Oklahoma big, big room with high windows, and we're going to do it in my studio this year. And it's developing a large studio landscape. That's the idea. And I think there's a need for it, because so so many artists have gotten into the hole of plein air movement and the smaller size of landscapes. And how you upsize and how do you do it in a way that you enjoy the process. Because what I discovered brilliant being a plein air Painter is that I became dependent on on the ALA prima aspect, and didn't have a language in the studio. So when I get in the studio, it just became a more discouraging experience. Once I learned all the lessons of what light and shadow and colors do outdoors, then at least the skill set in in getting the mixing the colors right had come together for me in the studio. But even then, like I just had this need to do it in an immediate sort of way. And when you're doing a 30 by 40, you can't exactly do an immediate approach, you can you can upsize, you can use a lot of paint. But I was never satisfied with the look of those canvases. So I want people to be able to walk up to a 30 by 40 and have a bit of an adventure. So I needed some realism in there. So to ever achieve a painting, like what's behind your head there. It it, it takes a lot of subtraction in the process. So addition of paint, throwing the paint on and taking it off. And at the end of every session, you know, what I teach is to try to subtract a bit so that when you come back to the painting, there's problems to fix. But there's also this ability to take it another level of detail, let's say or also to correct mistakes that you didn't realize you were getting into. So, you know, eventually you hope to have a painting that's got some thicker passages through it. But yeah, anyway. So like, how do you do that? To watch a painter like me maybe show you, I think that would be very helpful. And, and what I do is I just opened up all kinds of techniques for that how to how to scramble and in backtrack and your painting. But to come back into it in a way that's very motivating. And I use a lot of de gahs approach to the canvas in teaching that. Speaking of Degas, so yeah, it's called Developing a large studio landscape. It's three days, September 26, to the 28th. It's here in Siloam. Springs, Arkansas, where I live. So look that up on my website and see if that would be interesting to you. And I can even help with lodging if you feel you need that. So
Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:34
that's great. Yeah, and that sounds amazing. Yeah, I've always found it to be a bit of a mystery how, you know, they, you know, landscape painters like you have a plein air piece. And then you take that back to the studio and how do you extend it because there's so much more going on in there. So it's, uh, wow, I think anyone would get something really great out of that, especially if they want to graduate into bigger campus. So yeah.
John Lasater: 1:09:57
Yeah. And then I'm also Oh, sorry, the second workshop is the same theme, but it's in, in Georgia, in Cartersville, Georgia at the booth Art Academy at the booth, Western art museum. So that may be better for people regionally. So yeah, that's coming up next spring in March. So awesome.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:10:23
Yeah, you have a lot of workshops going on also coming up in the future, which, of course, I think people can find on your website, which do you mind telling us where people can find more of your work? Yeah,
John Lasater: 1:10:35
so my website is Lasseter. art.com. That's Le S A T E R, ar t.com. Or you can follow me on Instagram at John P Lasseter. Also, I've got a, an online, Facebook group community. Okay, I've got a Facebook group, is what I meant to say, called views community of painters. And anyone's Welcome to, to ask to be on there. And it's been a great community that I've felt that of people that took my workshops. And so I'll get on there and critique once in a while or all, or you use Photoshop, and I kind of show a painting and kind of talk about why I like it or what needs work. And I'll show paintings from history and critique on on those as well. And just mainly just talk about what I like about the painting. And then community members will post paintings that they have that they want to know what people think or so it's all it's really all about inspiration and critique. So I invite anybody to be a part of that.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:44
Yeah, I might join to. Yeah,
John Lasater: 1:11:48
you'll probably add a lot. I would love to have you on,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:51
I would hope. Yeah. Yeah, I'll definitely join them. I would, I would hope I can add something. Thea, thank you so much, John, for giving us some of your time to give us such such wonderful inspiration. I mean, you have to have this conversation bouncing out of my head for a while I think.
John Lasater: 1:12:08
Thank you. I enjoyed it so much to explore.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:12
Of course.
