Show Notes:
Get over 50% off your first year on artist website with FASO:
---
To kick off season 4, we interviewed an incredible artist named Kai Lun Qu. Kai is a great example of someone who took a chance on the things that brought him joy during a time when he had nothing left to lose, and it truly changed his life for the better. In this episode we discuss how he found his way as an artist, how to learn on your own if you truly have no way of attending a school, and how to use the things that spark joy in you as a way of not only finding your voice as an artist, but also as a path to find the people who truly support you and to find opportunities you never could've imagined. Finally, we also discuss his participation in the upcoming San Diego Comic con.
Check out Kai's website:
https://www.kailunqu.com/
Follow Kai on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/kailunqu/
Transcript:
Kai Lun Qu: 0:00
The second advice which I would give to students, including myself back in the days, which I wish I took this advice a lot more was, don't think or don't worry too much about the idea of style. I don't believe style truly exists until we've at least been at it for at least 2030 years. Because style is, in my opinion is an accumulation of experience. you limit your experience, you limit the growth, you know what I mean? It's it's a very malleable thing. And I believe it's our job as creatives to be as open as possible.
Laura Arango Baier: 0:37
Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango, Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast because there's art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work.We interviewing artists at all stages of their careers as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world in order to hear their advice and insights. To kick off season four, we interviewed an incredible artist named Kai loon to high is a great example of someone who took a chance on the things that brought him joy during a time when he had nothing left to lose. And it truly changed his life for the better. In this episode, we discuss how he found his way as an artist, how to learn on your own if you truly have no way of attending a school, and how to use the things that spark joy in you as a way of not only finding your voice as an artist, but also as a path to find the people who truly support you, and to find opportunities you never could have imagined.Finally, we also discuss his participation in the upcoming San Diego Comic Con. Yeah. Well welcome Kai to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?
Kai Lun Qu: 1:43
I'm good. I'm good.Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me here.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:47
Yeah, we're excited to have you actually also because Clint has one of your paintings. Clint, our CEO.He purchased your grow goo painting. Yeah.
Kai Lun Qu: 1:58
You did. Oh, wait, I think oh, yeah, for sure. I don't even know where all my painting is when so.
Laura Arango Baier: 2:10
Cool. Yeah.Yeah, he absolutely loves that painting. I remember he pulled it out. Actually, in one episode that we did. He was showing it because really, he loved it.Yeah, he has an
Kai Lun Qu: 2:21
episode that is.
Laura Arango Baier: 2:22
Oh, yeah, I gotta find it. It might have been a non video episode. But okay. In any case, he forgot loves your painting. Yes. Oh, man. Oh, so actually, let's get started. And you know, for those of you who maybe aren't aware of you and your work, do you mind telling us a bit about you and who you are what you do?
Kai Lun Qu: 2:44
Yeah, for sure. So Um, hi, everyone. My name is Chi. Chi Lin. Q. I'm a fine artist, oil painter, educator.I've been doing this for I think of 10 years now. You know? And yeah, I don't know how in depth you want me to get into
Laura Arango Baier: 3:08
some depth.But what kind of paintings
Kai Lun Qu: 3:13
so it really depends, I make a variety of different paintings. I mean, all which is like representational right? I really tried to rep the ALA prima style when I went technique. So that's majority of like, you know, what I do or for all my paintings, and basically,I started out with doing just the traditional portraits still life plein air painting, you know, all that good stuff for like the longest time. And it was only recently that I started venturing into as you can see behind me, you know, utilizing more pop culture references and imagery, but using a primitive kind of feel these imageries so yeah, it's been having a lot of fun with that.
Laura Arango Baier: 4:03
Yeah, yeah.And I love all of your paintings of like the pop culture people so like, Grogu
Kai Lun Qu: 4:09
Thank you. Thank you cool
Laura Arango Baier: 4:11
yeah, I you know, I feel like you took you definitely took what most people would consider fan art into like an A majestic artistic level.
Kai Lun Qu: 4:22
Thank you. I was so yeah, no, yeah, no, I was like I was actually so hesitant at the beginning because you know people from our circle they don't normally do you know, quote unquote fan art like this, you know, where you don't see them but maybe they'll do it as a one off right as a tribute or as a joke, but they you don't see them doing it constantly and I you know, I can get into a bit of that later on how I got started, but it was a bit of a bit of a dive like I kind of like took a plunge you know, I was expecting a lot of like, you know, my collectors or whatever to start going like Hey, what are are you doing like, what is this? What's happening? But thankfully, everyone's been super supportive. And I've actually gotten many great new opportunities, not only in terms of, you know, exploring different techniques, but also in terms of career. So it's been honestly one of the greatest decisions I have honestly ever made in my, in my career. So
Laura Arango Baier: 5:23
yeah, that's awesome. And actually, I do want to know, you know, since, from what I've heard, you know, you're primarily self taught, you know, you did go to mica, I believe.
Kai Lun Qu: 5:33
Yeah, I did. I did.No hate. I'm like, no hate. I'm like, but no, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 5:40
But um, how did that experience affect you as an artist.
Kai Lun Qu: 5:45
So when I first went to mica, I didn't know how to paint, right, I did a bunch of drawings, I had a bit of drawing training, because my parents sent me back to China for one and a half years during high school, because it was mainly to punish me for being a bad kid and that student, but my dad was an art professor in China. So he was able to give me an in to the art academies there. I did not like art, by the way, like I really did not like drawing I did, I kind of drew like doodle like anime characters now. And then, but I didn't, I wasn't really that interested in, like realism, or whatever it is, they were teaching over there, which is the 19th century Russian academic techniques, that has been kind of watered down to the Chinese academic techniques, you know, using YouTube videos. But basically, I was there for a year and a half. So it was through kind of, I guess, just being surrounded by everybody who kind of knew what they were doing, because everyone there has been training since they were so young. So even though I didn't really want to learn it, because everyone else was doing it around me, it was almost kind of like, you know, like an environmental kind of situation.So I was eventually just kind of picking things here and there.So by the time when I came back to America to finish high school, I was able to kind of draw within that kind of realm.And I guess that impressed people. That's why I, my teachers told me, he should go to art school, which I did. And, but I only knew how to do that I only knew how to do like, the Chinese academic way, which it's, you know, crosshatching doing one called little, you know, hatching and all that stuff, right, I didn't know how to do it any other ways. And in painting, you don't really paint like that you don't really crosshatch in painting, right?So that was for and also because all the oil paintings I've seen in China, were also good because they don't allow you to use oil paint until you've mastered drawing. Like they really serious about that. So all the oil paintings actually in China are are just like super next level. So I always thought that I never could be able to use oil because I felt like it was like more of a VIP medium that I felt like I was just, you know, not that VIP. Were not that cool to use. Yeah, about what I can. But when I went to mica, like I wasn't even thinking of oil painting. I was just mainly thinking of just doing anything else. So I tapped into photography. I tried graphic design. I tried illustration, animation, I hated all those. I was like not good. Also, because I was not good with the computer. So it was just kind of torture for me to like even try to learn the programs. It just felt. I don't know. It wasn't it wasn't for me. Yeah, but I think it was a trip down to the National Portrait Gallery. I think if you hear my other podcast I probably talked about so I'm gonna just gloss over this a little bit more but it was a trip down to the National Portrait Gallery in DC. I think this is around the end of June.No sir, and freshman year. And I saw this painting by John Singer Sargent. It was my first Sargent painting that I ever seen. It was the Spanish dancer. It wasn't LG Leo. It was to study for ultra low. So it was the Spanish dancer. It was just her but it was big. And I saw that it blew me away. It woke me up.I was like pulling an all nighter that day. So it woke me up. I was so tired the whole entire day until that moment.And then when I saw that painting, I was like, wow, I I gotta give this oil painting thing a try. Right? And so when I went back to school, that very same day, I bought my first oil pink kit, which wasn't that much it was just I didn't have enough money so I only bought like one brush and I bought one to paint if I didn't have enough money and yeah, you know, I'm sorry.Is this like a super long like, no answer to the question. No, no, okay. Yeah, let me know if I start rambling on but but but anyway, so I because I and I actually felt like this was kind of, in a way a good thing that I didn't have enough money because US, I just ended up doing a lot of open precise, right? Because what else could you do with just one type of paint, and one brush. So I did. So I bought the biggest brush I could. And I bought one to paint. And I just did a bunch of open criticize, what I didn't know was just by doing this, it was also teaching me with the big question was teaching simplifications, like I was not getting caught up with a small details, like, you know, learning how to, like capture the big form. And, you know, and with the openness, I was learning the medium, I was learning how to kind of control it, at least in the blocking stage, right, and actually got pretty good at that to the point where I started, you know, being able to sell a few of the open criticize. So the first poker site that I sold, I used that money to buy a two book titanium white. And then I did a bunch of close Versailles and so on and so forth. I you know, do a bunch of paintings like Master that one painting or main started one tube, the one new tube that I buy, and I use the money that I make from suddenly that one painting to get another color, perhaps like this, I think my third color was a cadmium red.Well, that's it. So I was, yeah, cadmium red. I know. Yeah. And then I just use those three colors for the longest time. And then I introduced you know, cadmium yellow. And I use those four colors for a longest time.But by doing that, I was really trying to, like marinate and squeeze out, like everything I could out of that one color. So I really understand how to fully control it, you know, so I guess that turned out to be a good thing. I'm actually having a lot of my students do that. Now. You know, some of them as kind of like a, I mean, they don't have to sell it. But you know, like, show me like, at least three paintings that shows that you have a really good understanding of these two colors. And then we'll add one more, and we just keep adding, keep adding kind of like, you know, putting on weights, you know, yeah, exactly how I did it. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot more, but that's kind of like the gist of like, how I got started.
Laura Arango Baier: 11:59
Wow.Clearly, from what I've experienced, and what I've heard, not just from you, but from other painters is that Sargent is a gateway drug.
Kai Lun Qu: 12:09
Oh, man. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, sergeant was absolutely a gateway drug I because I saw Anders Zorn exhibition in high school. And he was awesome. But it was not an I mean, he's really great. I mean, now I love him. But at that time, it was still not enough to really push me into this. I just looked at him being like, oh, that's, that's really cool. I have no idea how that works. I have no idea how he makes it happen. I have no idea how painting works. But it was cool. But yeah, Sargent is definitely someone that I recommend. Don't look at the Google Images, though. You have to go look at his paintings in person, like I avoid his Google Images, because I feel like they just don't do any justice to his paintings. You know, I was so disappointed when I saw the Google image of the Spanish dancer because I was trying to show my friends when I was seeing, and it just looks so I'm sorry to say but average on google image, like none of the colors shine through not not a diss discharger more of a different technology on how they can capture searchers colors.But yeah, it is what it is.
Laura Arango Baier: 13:11
Yeah, I mean, that's the difficulty with like any photographing of artwork is it can never really do it justice. Like it's always better to encourage people to see see paintings in person for that reason. Yeah. And then I love that you dove into accidentally into a limited palette, which is actually such it's what I use, I literally only use a limited palette and oh, yeah, so I totally I totally understand. And also for beginners, it's surprisingly, the easiest one to master. And to understand, because you're not worrying about like, oh, I need a cool red and a warm red or cool yellow and
Kai Lun Qu: 13:52
yeah, not worrying about all those things. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 13:55
Yeah. And that can get really confusing for beginners, especially when they're like, how do I even mix flash? Right, which of course, it's just
Kai Lun Qu: 14:03
a question. That's a million dollar question right there. Yeah. Oh, that's
Laura Arango Baier: 14:06
the question. Everyone asks when they're getting into. Yeah, basically, everyone's orange.And instead of worrying about like, cool, orange versus like, basically the different levels of orange. It's like, okay, you just have one that you learn to work with. And then you can expand from there, which is genius. Yeah. Yeah. So that brings me to the next question, which is, you know, looking back, you know, to when you first started to now, what has been the most important lesson you've learned when it comes to being an artist who lives from their work?
Kai Lun Qu: 14:43
Oh, man, yeah. So I I've actually been thinking about this for some time now.And I don't think there's like a simple answer I can give just because I felt like I learned so many lessons along the way. I guess the first thing that I would say is Well, okay, I'll give two lessons, one that I learned as just an artist, and one that I learned as a student that I try to impart into my other students, right? Is that okay? Can I,
Laura Arango Baier: 15:13
dude? Yeah.
Kai Lun Qu: 15:14
Awesome. So okay, so the, you know, the one thing that I learned, you know, in my journey is, it sounds really cliche, but really just don't be afraid of being individualistic.And don't be afraid of just painting or doing things that is of interest to you, even though like no one else is really doing it. You know, I really don't believe that we always have to, like, try to fit ourselves in side like a mold. You know what I mean? Sorry, if you can hear my guinea pigs, they're like, they're like screaming in the back. Yeah, if they're ever wondering what that squeaking is, that's, that's them, because they can hear me in the room.They get excited. But But anyways, yeah, so that is the first, I guess, advice that I would give just, you know, don't be afraid of tackling things.And because for the longest time in my career, I felt like I've been painting things where it just felt like I was supposed to paint them, but it wasn't really the subjects that were really interesting to me. You know, I mean, we're both like, pretty young, right? I mean, I don't, I mean, I don't know about your interest. I know a lot, at least for me, you know, I'm not that interested in just, you know, random landscapes, we're still lies or whatever. I mean, those are cool. But for me, I'm an I'm a giant Video Game Nerd. And movie nerd, right. I love superheroes, I love you know, all these like, larger than life characters, you know. So that's kind of what compelled me to, you know, and after I started painting, like, you know, these pop culture characters I, I enjoyed, I started enjoying painting again, I was actually about to kind of go on a hiatus for the longest time, because I just was not interested in painting anymore. It was just demos after demos of just portraits and figures, and still is, and I was just, you know, starting to lose interest in it, you know. So this actually helped, I guess, bring my interest back to full peak, if not, way more than it was ever.But anyways, so that's like the first advice. The second advice, which I would give to students, including myself, back in the days, which I wish I took this advice a lot more was, don't think, or don't worry too much about the idea of style. You probably heard this a lot, too, right? Yeah. Where I feel like especially a lot of people who are, you know, like starting out younger, or maybe even like people who have been at it for maybe a year or two, two or three years, where they're like saying, I don't want to do things that can influence or impact my style, like, oh, I, that's not my style, I'm not going to do it. I don't believe style truly exists until we've at least been at it for at least2030 years. Because style, in my opinion, is an accumulation of experience. you limit your experience, you limit the growth, you know what I mean?It's it's a very malleable thing. And I believe it's our job as creatives to be as open as possible, like a sponge. You know, if I start closing off some holes, then it's not going to, I'm not going to be able to like what how do I know? If I if this is going to impact me positively or not? Maybe it will. A lot of people don't know this, but for my paintings, like they're always asking me about my brushes, brushstrokes. You know, they're always asking me about how I decide on my brush strokes. And what kind of oil painting classes I did. First of all, I didn't take any oil painting classes. But what kind of oil paintings did I see that influenced my brushstrokes?None. No oil paintings, actually, I mean, a little bit of Zoram, but not really. What I usually say to that, and people are just as prices. My brushes are influenced from Chinese calligraphy. Because I did a bit of Chinese calligraphy back in the days. And I didn't even know I was influenced by this. I was influenced by subconsciously until one of my students pointed out because I was explaining how I approached brush economy. And she's like, wow, this is exactly like Chinese calligraphy. I'm like, oh, that actually makes a lot of sense. Because I I learned that when I was back in high school because my dad's teacher is one of China's most famous Chinese ink painters who also does calligraphy. So my dad tried teaching me a little bit of that back when I was in high school, so I just never knew it just stuck with me, and seep itself back into my work, even to this day. So it's Yeah, I guess that's like the two advice I would give. Hopefully, that's okay.
Laura Arango Baier: 19:42
Oh, yeah, it's more than okay. I think, you know, you give some some really, really wise words. And it's very funny that you mentioned that you thought about going on a hiatus because I'm actually currently on what I'm calling a sabbatical from painting because like you i I lost the joy. Because of too much schooling actually I did.
Kai Lun Qu: 20:06
Yeah. Yeah. that'll that'll do it sometimes that'll do it for you.
Laura Arango Baier: 20:11
Yeah, I did to academic schools. And then also, you know, honor James. So that's, yeah. Yeah.
Kai Lun Qu: 20:17
I mean, technique must be off the charts. But you might.
Laura Arango Baier: 20:22
I mean, technique, I feel like it's something that, you know, over time, it improves as well. But I do think, yes, I did gain a lot of technique. But unfortunately, it definitely pulled me away from my true, you know, voice and the real things that I enjoyed, and it's so funny, because even said it, like, I felt like I had to paint this because I should, yeah, that's exactly how
Kai Lun Qu: 20:43
everyone else is doing it. So, like, fit in with everyone else, you know?Exactly.
Laura Arango Baier: 20:47
Yeah. So part of that was getting off social media and just diving into reading, reading the books that I love. So I, I'm also finding my joy and rediscovering it and like, you know, that's all things that actually yeah, like almost like childhood Joy things, you know, that sort of?Yeah, like, for sure thread?
Kai Lun Qu: 21:05
Yeah, absolutely.Absolutely. You know, absolutely. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 21:10
Yeah. And then speaking of, you know, difficult moments and challenges. When you first started, you know, selling your work and like turning this into your business, or your career really, what was the greatest challenge that you faced, I
Kai Lun Qu: 21:28
think the greatest challenge I faced when it came to selling my work was trying to do it too early. I was trying to do it way too early. I was I was really narcissistic back in the days because, you know, imagine this, you know, I was in China.And I was considered baby. Like,I mean, when I first went there,I was trashed. I was terrible.Because I had no training. I was not interested. I barely even knew how to hold a pencil properly. But it I guess, because I wanted to fit in. I just started practicing. You know, and I was able to catch up fairly quickly, just due to the environment, I think I grew up in at home. And I went from just completely zero to I think I wouldn't call myself I wouldn't rank me like, the top top. But definitely like above, like maybe in the top 20% of the class. Right? That's decent. So yeah, but to be fair, I was able to practice when they were all trying to study because I couldn't follow along their classes. And I was placed in a very back at a class. Why was I placed in the back of the class, even though I couldn't follow along, I couldn't understand because my dad, that was part of the punishment. But he gave me a book on Russian account on the Russian Academy. And he gave me a sketchbook. So all day long, I think for, you know, classes, we're starting at six in the morning. And, you know, we go all the way to like 12. And then from 12, to 10. Are those are regular classes, and from total10. It's our classes. So our classes go to 10pm. So six to10pm. Every day, six days a week, I was just drawing. So, of course, I was able to catch up.And of course, it was great, because a lot of my friends that like sitting next to me would offer me critiques be like, hey, you know, so that was really helpful. But when I came back to the states, you know, I was used to just being like one of the guys but when I came back to the States, because this you know, because America doesn't have that kind of training in high school. You know, maybe a few very small selected numbers, but not really, right. So I immediately went from Oh, just wanted to guys to V guy, like I went from I went, you know, to like the guy who's like, oh, man, like, everyone's just like,Oh my God, and I liked that feeling. I'm not gonna lie. I like that feeling. I was really narcissistic. So I just kept letting a few me, you know?
Laura Arango Baier: 23:55
Well, that's, yeah,
Kai Lun Qu: 23:57
yeah, yeah. So, because of that, I tried to start I started trying to just sell my work really early on, because I just thought I was good. I wasn't good. I was okay.I was decently average for someone my age, let's just say that I was not like, like I was, you know, definitely not compared to some of the younger students nowadays, you see, especially in affiliate, so I was not there at all, but I thought I was okay, because I didn't know anybody else. You know? Like when you're in a small fishbowl, you think you're the biggest fish ever. Then they dropped me, you know, so actually, it was funny because it was when I went, you know, I gotta finish this sentence first. But yeah, so I try selling my work really early on, and it just, I did end up selling a few and I really regret that. Because now those words are out there. You know? I don't want them to represent me now because you know, it doesn't It doesn't match. Right. So I would I would say that was like the biggest challenge. I mean, in hindsight, right, like just thinking about it. I wish that I kind of held off on trying to sell my work that early on. I wish that you know, I think Alex, Alex Annainsea said it best. I think he said this one thing was a him or was it someone else I forgot, but it was a quote I really liked, which was Don't worry about selling just make the painting so good that people can ignore it. You know, thank you said, I love that quote. And I always say it, you know, I always, you know, so I wish I wish I knew that quote before. But even then I probably would have not listened to it. So, you know?
Laura Arango Baier: 25:47
Yeah, I think we, we hear the the message that we need to hear when we're ready to hear it.Because oftentimes, we'll hear it again and again and again.And then we're like, yeah, yeah,I know. And then and then it hits me like,
Kai Lun Qu: 26:00
oh, yeah, you didn't really know.
Laura Arango Baier: 26:04
But yeah, how BoldBrush reinspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic. And the world is currently in desperate need of magic.BoldBrush provides artists with free art, marketing, creativity, and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles, and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush.And if you believe that to sign up completely free, a BoldBrush show.com. That's BOLDBRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special ink faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true. And also get over 50%off your first year on your artists website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor.The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step guides on what you should be doing today, right now in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link faso.com forward slash podcast. That's www.FASO.com/podcast. Yeah, I think that's also one of the funny things about you know, being a young person. There's a saying, I think it's, I can't remember who said it right now.It's some some guy, some dead guy. But he said, I'm not young enough to know everything. And I love that quote, because it's so true with with young people. The whole idea of like Icarus flying close to the sun, or like, I'll be fine. I got this. But I think that's also there is some use to that as well, where you know, you still took that first job, you're like, fuck it, I'm doing this. I'm I'm gonna sell and here you are like, now you're selling a ton. So
Kai Lun Qu: 28:27
yeah, yeah. I'm really, really thankful for that. Yeah, yes.
Laura Arango Baier: 28:31
And if it wasn't for that, you know, younger you who like had had the balls to like, Just do it?Maybe? Yeah, a different place.
Kai Lun Qu: 28:43
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think I was. Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Arango Baier: 28:48
Yeah. Yeah.So as someone who is self taught, mostly, right, I mean, you were of course exposed to the insane as hell Russian academic style, which, yeah, in academic circles. We all love the Russian academic stuff for like, you know, structural purposes. Um, but as someone who's primarily self taught, and maybe we have listeners who are also self taught, and you know, maybe they're struggling or they don't know where to start, what advice would you give them?
Kai Lun Qu: 29:18
So, the term self taught, that's also like something that I want to kind of address really quick, just because I feel like a lot of people don't understand what that truly means. A lot of people think that means you're sitting inside a room not looking anything, just trying to figure out yourself that like, you're not gonna really get anywhere doing that, right. For me, I believe it's like more like self teaching or self directing, in a way, right like that, because I was like, so hungry for this information. And I just didn't know where to get out even or what until you were at that time. Like, I didn't know anything. But I started doing some research, right, I started trying to, and it all came from me Are you looking in discovering, you know, not just Sergeant but I was. You know, I saw sergeant and I'm like, Huh.I wonder if there's anyone alive that still reps, maybe that mindset or philosophy. And that's how I happened across Richard Schmidt. You know, so and his alla prima book, and that Allah prenup that became my teacher, almost, you know, like, everything that I learned was from Allah permanent book. But I think for, especially for listeners who are self taught some advice I would give, as someone who was also pretty much self taught, is you really just need to take all the information you can, however you can, I can tell you a little bit of how I took some information too. So I didn't have money. Back then I got a super broke like, I think I was literally just, you know, man, I think I, I was like, super broke that time. So I didn't have money for classes, I have money for paints, I barely have money for anything. So what I did first was YouTube, right?But YouTube doesn't have like, I wasn't listening to the tutorials, because there was no good tutorials back then on YouTube. I mean, there were tutorials weren't good. You know. However, there were trailers for the DVDs. People like David litho. People like Morgan wisely, Jacob Collins, like, you know, Jeremy looking like all these DVDs. I couldn't afford the DVDs. But I could afford watching like the 32nd trailer on YouTube. You know, though, the one ADP like trailer on YouTube. And that's kind of what I did. I just I remember there was this one Morgan Weisen video, I don't know if you know him. But I remember. Yeah, he's like, great, representational classical painter. Awesome.Also, from, you know, I don't believe he's from directly from the Schmidt School of like painting, but, you know, closely related. And he had this one video where he was just showcasing Oh, how I go, how he like paints like a big painting.And it was very low quality, you know, right. It was old YouTube low quality. And I remember, it just showed like him, and then it showed his palette, and then it showed like a starter painting, which is him just kind of going in blocking a little bit. And then all of a sudden, he transitions into maybe two hours into the painting. And then it transitions once more into the finished painting. So I had to like piece the piece everything together. I was like,Okay, what was happening in between. And then I even started, I start pausing with every little Microsoft. I was like, pausing as looking. And there was a shot of his palette where he was already mixing, right? I'm pointing to my palette, you can't really see but he was mixing. And I was even looking at the direction of like, okay, well, I'm seeing a bit of a streak here. So maybe he went from this color here.And then this code here, almost like the dissecting, like a crime scene in a way, right.Like, you know, what colors he used first, like how much like, you know, I was looking at, you know, I can't really tell, but I was looking at just, you know, like, sometimes when you're stabbing into like paint, like, it leaves like a little bit. So I was looking at how much there was even there? Like, how many No, so I was really trying to exactly, so I was just trying to dissect everything. So that's the first thing that I did.Firstly, right. And that's something anyone can do. I mean, now, it's like, you don't need to do that. Because there's so many great online videos now.Right, including the including the company that I'm with sentient Academy, they have a whole library of free videos.And I'm just like, Where was this when I was trying to learn?And that's actually part of the reason so I'm with them, because I'm like, wow, I want to contribute and make it easier for someone else. So I didn't have to go through what I had to go through, which is just flipping through those three low resolution 32nd video all day long. But so that was the first thing that I did. And the second thing is actually thanks to the connections and friendships that I made. My first I guess real art friendship was with my friend divan Rodriguez, I don't believe I don't think you know who he is. I mean, if you do, he's the he's basically the most viral most viral artist right now. He's the guy that draws the people on the subways and gives it to them, you know, so yeah, that's, that's my homie right there. He and I we were like pen pals for the longest time back in the days when we were in high school. And he was in New York.I was in California. He was the high schooler in New York trying to do it. I was the California kid who's trying to do it. So that's how we became friends.And when he realized I was going to mica, which was in Baltimore, which was close by to New York, definitely closer than California. He was like, Hey, why don't you come up to New York? I'll introduce you to some of the people here because at that time, he he went to the high school art and design in New York, and that's where people like, recommend he come,Max Ginsberg. That's where Garen Baker like that's where they all were kind of thriving in. Right.So, he took me to my first I guess, model session, which is actually a draw-a-thon that was being hosted in New York and it was hosted in his high school.But it's cool because it was like an all day 24 hour thing they went to all like the whole night. They have I think over 10models in different rooms law imposes short poses, costume poses, you know, it was cool, like new poses everything. And when I showed up there, I recognize this one person sitting there. And I recognized him because David Kasson painted him. And it was Max Ginsberg.And I just like, oh my god, I'm like, Oh, my God is max Ginsberg. And then developed like, yeah, you want to go say hi. And I'm like, cats, go say hi. So we went to go say hi to Max. Max was really grateful, I realized something to everyone was sitting behind Max. Even though it wasn't a demo, it was like a, because I guess people were intimidated. I didn't feel that way. So I basically try pulling my, you know, set up, right close by him. And then I just started going like, okay, great. This is like YouTube, but better. Because I was already so used to dissecting from those YouTube videos that it was easy for me, well, not easy, but it was definitely a lot, because he's Max Ginsburg is a master, but it was easy for me to look and see. And just, you know, I don't have to, like, you know, ask questions, because I was able to just kind of see from what he was doing, you know, to the point where I didn't want to constantly look here. So I almost I actually don't think he ever, I don't think he knows this. I never told him this. But I would actually memorize where the colors are on his palette.And I would like use the corner of my eye just look at his arm movement. You know? Oh, my God.Yeah. So I would do that. And then after his arm movement, I will see what paint that he put on. And I'm like, okay, so he just went for white went for a cat red. Okay, he went for like, he wasn't there for too long. So if you went for a little bit of a, you know what I mean? So that's kind of, its kind of what I did. And yeah, just really? I just tried to take as much as I can. However, I could.
Laura Arango Baier: 37:03
Yeah. Yeah.I mean, and that's really excellent advice for anyone who's like, who's out there and can't go to these affiliates or can't go to these schools can't Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Take what you can and take what you can and wow. Wow, dude. Yeah, I'm actually speechless from that, because it's
Kai Lun Qu: 37:22
really, I mean, you started doing? Yeah, I started doing that for not just that event, but every time I go anywhere, like I travel sometimes around, every time I go anywhere, I always go, and just look up. Is there any affiliates nearby? There is great. Are there any open sessions that they're offering, because the open sessions usually are contained with some people. And then I researched who's gonna be there, when I tried to research, you know, try to memorize faces. So that, or if not faces, I tried to like, like, I taught myself how to kind of like, recognize someone's level, like, I can kind of see how good you are just from the first few strokes that you put, you know, not always but like, you know, I can kind of get a sense, right, from not just how you're putting it down. But just like your confidence too, from like, how you're living your brush that, you know, I can kind of try to read that body language, because so, you know, usually I don't set up until maybe 10 minutes in, and I set up to the best person that I think if the best person in the room just tries to start taking charge, Steve,
Laura Arango Baier: 38:23
genius.Genius, you hear that guy's always sit next to the best person in the room. And that's actually that's actually that they recommend to anyone, like anyone who's learning any any other topic, it's like, trying to find who the best person is.And, you know, just be like, a blank slate, and ask him the stupidest questions, because you will get so much
Kai Lun Qu: 38:47
out of that.Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.Yes, absolutely.
Laura Arango Baier: 38:51
Um, and then, you know, it's really great to to have that network, right. It's good to least today, it's so easy with social media, you know, like to find out to liaise to find open sessions, and any of that, which brings me to social media. And I've been very curious because you have very awesome social media page on Instagram. So I was wondering, when it comes to social media, or maybe other types of marketing, what has been the most fruitful way for you to connect with potential buyers?
Kai Lun Qu: 39:27
So it was definitely Instagram for a longest time. I think nowadays, Instagram really hates me, you can kind of see like, my recent posts barely gets anything anymore. But that's also because I stopped posting for the longest time and I think once he stopped posting, it drops you off. And you have to, you know, build that momentum. Again, it's tiring.I'm like, I don't feel like doing that anymore. Especially I think also because a lot of my posts now they're all collaboration posts, and other people were posting. So I think, you know, depending on how many followers they have usually impacts on how many people sees my stuff, right? But I think to give you an idea Like, if you're looking at my social media, you know, see all the followers, I did not have any followers for a good chunk of time I created my Instagram account back in high school in senior year of high school. And from senior year, which was 2012. Two that no sorry, 2014 2014 from 2014 all the way to when did a pandemic happen? The pandemic 2020 and2014 all the way to 2020 I had what 3000 followers, two to 3000followers, you know, it was just it never grew. It just was like just there, right? Which is okay, but like, considering I've been on an app for seven years,2000 like, you know, right, do you expect a little bit more, right. But, you know, I just kind of thought, oh, I guess that's just where it is. But I think it's also because my work wasn't like at that quality yet.So I think that's why people weren't that interested. And I remember, it was actually really funny. I kind of have to go a little bit on a tangent here.But it was during the pandemic, actually, I almost quit painting. I almost quit art.Because after I graduated college, I, I moved back to California with my then girlfriend, now fiance, and I was like, Okay, what do I do? And since I've been teaching, you know, I started teaching the second year of college, I'm like going back to teaching and actually started my own affiliate program, because I was just, you know, I wasn't happy with education I was getting and I wasn't happy with the fact that most schools don't teach that kind of stuff. So I started my own. I got a aarC approved, which is pretty funny. And and yeah, so that's kind of what I did. And I built it from the ground up, and we ended up getting over hundreds of students. Wow. And then the pandemic struck. No. And then I lost all the students overnight.And because it was, till the day, I was so focused on teaching drawing that I was not painting alleys. You know, I mean, I hosted open model session sometimes every week.That's when I kind of painted but I just will start getting to practicing. So when I tried painting again, I was like, Man,I'm terrible at this now to Oh my God. Oh, this is it. That's it solver. Like, you know, I was like Uber hiring like, can I just drive for Uber? Like, I don't I don't want to, you know.So then I went, it was like my most depressing state. I think I gained 40 pounds. Wow. One month, one to two months. Like it was bad. I was almost 200pounds. And yeah, I was just like on bed playing video games eating pizza every day. Like I was just not having it. Yeah.And then after two months, I have to thank my fiance because I asked her I was like, Why have you not commented this? Because she was just going about the day like usual. Right? And I'm like, hold on. This is disgusting. How have you not commented about this yet? She's like, What are you talking about? I'm taking a break. I'm like, what? And she's like, you're taking a break, right? And I'm like, Well, you think this is a break? I'm quitting and she's like, why are you quitting? Just take a break.And I'm like, why? She's like, you've been working so hard.Just take a break. You need it.Trust me. And I'm like, You know what, I do need it. She's like,Yeah, don't worry about it. Take a break, you'll you'll come back stronger than ever just take a break. I'm like, Okay, well, I will. So I took another week break. You know, where I wasn't feeling bad for myself. Right.And after that, I, I started after that i i went on social media again, because I deactivated my Instagram are not deactivated, but uninstalled my Instagram, because I just was like, I'm not looking at anybody anymore. I am not in the art world anymore. reactivate it or I mean, reinstalled it. And then I happened across who is now this one person who's now one of my best friends, Jared Brady.And I soldiers were before back when he was in 21 under 31.Because I mean, we were both in that article, but separate years, right? But I will still keeping up. And I remember I saw his work before. I'm like, Oh, this kids pretty decent. He's pretty decent. He's pretty decent. And then I saw his work that he did recently. And I'm like, what happened? like, Wait, how did you get this good?That's crazy. Wait, what happened? And then I saw he was doing something called Estrada challenge, which I don't know if you heard about that before. But it was a challenge that Primark, Taylor and Estrada is oh company created, which was you paint something from life every day for 30 days, 31 days, I believe.And I'm like this. Literally, I saw his process or his progress from day one to like day 30 I'm like, this is like a different person. I'm like, wait, if you can get this good, this is the kind of stuff I need. And I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go on social media. I'm gonna just post this to keep myself accountable. I wasn't trying to gain followers. I was just trying to hold myself accountable. And then the followers started stacking up because you post every day With a similar subject matter every day, people start noticing. So I think I grew from 3000 followers to 10,000, literally within a month. And then after that it's kept building kept stacking. And I think around day 18, that's when Brian Mark Taylor and sent him Academy because he's the co founder of centering Academy.That's when they reached out to me. And they're like, Hey, would you like to teach for us? And I'm like, Okay, let's do it. And then after that, they got my sponsorship with Raquel. And after that, yeah, my whole career, it's kind of so I guess they kind of saved my career in a way where they're challenged saved my career. That's awesome.Because not only that, I gained a lot of followers. And especially I feel like after you hit 10k, once people see that k,I think they see you as more trustworthy. So they started, I started getting more messages on commissions, and people were more willing to kind of, you know, go through with it. And yeah, I think I think over that course, I think I did maybe around 60 Commission's that time, a majority of the paintings you see from 2019, all the way till this year is majority commissions, actually.
Laura Arango Baier: 46:14
Yeah, so incredible. So a lot of commissions. Yeah. It is. Yeah.Yeah. No, but that's awesome.Because then you know, that that opened up your work completely to, you know, literal potential buyers, and obviously,
Kai Lun Qu: 46:28
exactly, yeah, people who wanted to be as powerful. It is.
Laura Arango Baier: 46:32
It is, though, I do agree that right now, the algorithm is a little bit wonky. i Yeah, it is so, but it's somehow also just randomly picks up old posts, too, and make some violence. So
Kai Lun Qu: 46:48
yep. I just know, I don't
Laura Arango Baier: 46:50
even know, man, I'm just staying off the lottery. No. Yeah, it is like a lottery. I'm staying off on I'm just like, I'm very much in the philosophy of post and logout.Unless, you know, I get comments, and I will, you know, reply to comments and stuff and engage with people. But aside from that, I'm, I'm a post and forget person. Because there's just so much pressure. And there's that, yeah. Oh, there's that innate, I'm, you know, I'm looking at other people's work and comparing myself to them, which is a good thing and about thing, it's very good thing, because it pushes you to be better about thing, because it might make you hate your
Kai Lun Qu: 47:31
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure.
Laura Arango Baier: 47:33
Yeah. Um, and then, you know, speaking of, you know, the internet, and actually recent, recent things that have happened. I'm actually very curious to know how you have personally been affected by AI art, since this is a bit of a hot topic. Yeah, absolutely. In your experience with it.
Kai Lun Qu: 47:55
I mean, I feel like us as traditional painters, you know, you and me included, I don't know, if you're, you're probably not, are you a digital painter? I think you're more of a traditional painter, right?Yeah, so I don't think AI really is influencing our circle as much. I have a lot of students who are in the industry who are getting affected by it heavily, because they're getting laid off, or they're, you know, in the risk of kind of having their job replaced by like this machine, you know, especially, like junior artists. So I think that's like a big, ethical issue that's happening right now. And I think that needs to be addressed. In some way. I feel like there has to be some kind of a rule for all companies to kind of follow where they can't just be exploiting that. Right.But then again, you know, when it comes to money, you know, anything goes, right. So that's a bit of unfortunate too. So I, because I have a lot of friends in industry. I fiance's also a concept artist. So I do see it kind of influencing and impacting people in a way where some might deem it negative. And yeah, it is somewhat so. And it definitely is, in a lot of cases. I would say, right now, I just feel like it might force some people to kind of work differently, you know? Because like maybe what you were doing before AI now can do it for you.Yeah, I do think there could be a compromise, but that needs to come way later, after all the ethical stuff has been kind of figured out, which is utilizing AI just how just like how we've been utilizing photography, you know, you're not going to present a photograph in a painting competition. However, a lot of paintings are done from photographs, you know what I mean? So I do believe AI can serve as a good tool to use not as the final product, but just something to kind of help, you know, maybe just be to contribute to the process of creation. Right? Perhaps it gives us like a really Overall bass, maybe it just gives you influence on like, Oh, I like, you know, maybe using colors here, here here and then making something on top of that. Right.And yeah, that's kind of like how I would think about AI. At least for right now.
Laura Arango Baier: 50:14
Yeah, yeah, that's how I feel too. I feel like it's become like, a little bit like the whole NFT thing.Right where like it kind of
Kai Lun Qu: 50:22
Oh, man. Oh, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 50:25
Everyone's in it. And then yeah, you know, it kind of like this is a wild.Exactly. Yeah, it's gonna die out. Or at least like I like to compare you no AI are a little bit too like McDonald's. Yeah, yeah. Burger like, yeah, everyone can get it. But like, I would still prefer to go to like, a fancy ass restaurant.Well, they'll make me Alicia
Kai Lun Qu: 50:51
here. And, like the same to you know? Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 50:55
Yeah, it does. It looks the same. And then I personally have had like, moments for my boyfriend was show me like an image. And he's like, Oh, what do you think of this? And I'm like, okay, but.And it turns out to be like, an AI generated like, thing. Yeah.And I just have like, this intuitive rejection of it. Like, it just feels funny enough.Artificial.
Kai Lun Qu: 51:17
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it is so yeah, it does.
Laura Arango Baier: 51:21
Yeah. Um, but at least you know, in some people, they might, they might be in the camp of like, Oh, I haven't seen anyone lose their job to it. But since you know, you and I are also in the arts.We know people in these, you know, careers, we can rightfully say that no one has lost a job to AI, because we have seen it already. Yeah, so I totally get that I actually got a commission last year. And then like, obviously, I sold the painting to the person who were very happy, it was a portrait of them. And then a few months later, the whole AI thing came out. And he immediately paid to get like, the whole 10 images of himself as AI. So I feel like if I hadn't taken that commission,I wouldn't have gotten that commission. You know?
Kai Lun Qu: 52:14
Yeah, for sure.Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 52:19
But you know, on a lighter note, I'm,I'm very curious. And this is something I might want to ask more people on the podcast as well. Do you have any other topics that you are extremely knowledgeable about? That no one would expect? And does it feed into your artwork?
Kai Lun Qu: 52:40
Oh, man, like talking about, like, other hobbies or other doing
Laura Arango Baier: 52:45
besides other hobbies? Yeah, they're like interests that are, you know, don't really expect Yeah, for
Kai Lun Qu: 52:51
for sure. I mean, for those who know me in real life, they know my life encompasses two things. One is art. Now there is dancing, like I do. Yeah. So I'm into dancing.And it does kind of influenced my art sandwich. I can get into that a little bit. But yeah, the type of dance that I do is, is a street dance, funk style called Popping. And it originated in California. And I'm really thankful to be in Los Angeles, because I've been able to kind of study with a lot of the OGS OGs. Here, I actually was able to study with pop and Pete who is the, the he's the brother to Blue Sam, who, you know, I mean,I'm not gonna put a definitive term on this. But you know, it's one of the pioneers of popping Pete as well. And Pete also taught Michael Jackson. So Michaels first dance style was popping as well. He learned a lot from like the OG poppers. So all the moves like a lot of the isolation is you see him doing like the glides, the moonwalks, all that that's all from popping. That was all taught to him from dough poppers, you know, so, yeah, that's kind of like something that I enjoy doing immensely. Just because I feel like it's, it's still creative, but it's so different than painting. You know? Like,I, I think it's more of a physical exploration. So you can still be creative and you can still so every time I feel like I'm stuck in a studio, I just go out, go to a gym, go to a session, go to a cipher. And, you know, that's usually where I get to kind of, you know, let out some of maybe that physical creativity, and then I come back fully refreshed. Right. And I think something that comes to my work between us because of dance, I am now driven by the sense of movement within paintings, right? I think that's what comes through like on my brushstrokes, and a lot of the composition side, maybe play around with all comes from the idea of rhythm and balance and that comes from popping, you know, right, because, you know, there's a style Yeah, like one of my teachers Jay Smith, he is, you know, he's One of the best, you know, he does like to style waving, right? Like he's really good at waving. And that's like, another kind of branch from popping, but it's also its own thing as well like how he would say, and a lot of that style, because it's all freestyle, it's about finding pathways, right?Finding different pathways finding different different set points. And I started finding myself kind of even taking that idea into painting like, well, maybe we'll start with an atmospheric, you know, abstraction at the beginning to kind of lay out the entire Have you seen me painting, you can probably see I start pretty abstractly. And I'm always just trying to sense out like, you know, different points and trying to find, you know, the pathways between these points, and just seeing how can I fit the portrait or figure or whatever, comfortably within these points. So it doesn't just end up being just a portrait, but a painting an atmosphere, you know, and I feel like, yeah, that's kind of what helped me unlock that kind of mindset. You know,
Laura Arango Baier: 55:57
I love that crossover. And I also love how, you know, you're also implementing a lot of that, like, mind body connection, because I feel like, so many of us as artists, we live so much in our heads, you know, we just in our heads, so it feels really good to let things out in a physical way. Like for me is actually it's actually bodybuilding. Our, our mutual friend, Sandra also does bodybuilding. So her and I talk about that a lot. But yeah, for me, it's weightlifting, and that I feel the exact same way. It just makes my brain feel fresh, like I'm ready to like, ya know, sink my teeth into a painting or like a drawing or. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And now we have come to a part of the show in which I will be asking you, do you have any upcoming shows, workshops, anything that you'd like to promote?
Kai Lun Qu: 56:56
Yes, actually, I do.And it's not a tradition. Like it's not a I mean, I mean, I teach classes here now a, you know, I teach the client Academy, you know, that's, you could just search that up. But this is a upcoming event, and I'm actually going to be part of, for those of you guys who have been following me or, you know, looking at my Instagram, I've been doing a lot of comic cons, you know, Comic Cons. Yes, the past year. Right. And I think the biggest one I did was two months ago, which is a wonder con. And that's actually what got me a lot of opportunities. And one of the opportunities is actually going to be happening next month, I think, less than a month in July. Where I don't I don't know if you ever heard of San Diego Comic Con? Because that's like, you know, yeah, definitely, oh,Comic Con is like the biggest Comic Con in the world, I think I was so I'm gonna be exhibiting I have. So I actually got people who I guess quote, unquote, kind of like arm Asians, right. And they have like a exhibition booth, and they're invited me to be a part of them. So that's gonna be, so they're called DC D collects, and their booth number is gonna be 1605. And I'm going to be a part of that, as well.So I'll be exhibiting some of the newest paintings I've been making, they're going to be debuting some of their being one of my newest paintings, like a really big one. And I'm gonna be having limited prints on that.So that is one of the things and another thing that's also going to be happening at the San Diego Comic Con. I don't know how many people can actually go who's listening to this, because it's so hard to get tickets, but keep an eye on the Download guys, but I actually got reached out by Marvel to do some work for their game Marvel snap. Two months ago, at WonderCon, you know, the art director came up and saw my work. And, you know, so they invited me up to do a stage panel with them, like behind our talk at San Diego Comic Con, that's going to be next month as well. And they're going to be debuting some of the works I've been doing for them as well as the time lapse that I've been doing for them as well. So I'm super excited for that. Because I've never thought I mean, you see pictures of celebrities where people who are like, you know, you know, art celebrities, like on those stages were like, you know, behind the tables with their name, you see images of that you never think that you actually be a part of that. But here I am. So that's a that's something that's also going to be happening so. So it came about? Yes, yeah. So you know, just keep it on a download because I think they want to wait to announce me word of mouth, then I'm a part of them went to when they announced it like next month. That should be fine. Yeah, we're not saying one podcast. So yeah, I'm not seeing what I'm doing for them. So I mean, I am doing payments for them. I'm offering which paintings of
Laura Arango Baier: 59:48
course.Exactly. Yeah. Like clearly you're making paintings for them. I mean, that's not a secret. Yeah. And that's so awesome. Congrats.
Kai Lun Qu: 59:57
Thank you. Yeah, that's why I feel like I'm Slowly stepping away from like the fine art world and edging my way slowly into like the more entertainment arts world. And you know, I felt weird about it for the longest time, but now I feel like you know what, these are more white people. I feel like I have more in common with these guys, then, you know, no offense to the fine arts or No, but I always feel like I don't really have that much in common besides liking painting, but
Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:24
you just got to follow your tribe and follow, you know, yeah, that that, oh, that internal human connection?You know, it's like, yeah, you can't force a connection that isn't there. And I totally understand that. Because I'm also breaking away a lot more from the academic. I mean, I haven't shown the work that I've been doing, because it means hiding from the universe, but I totally understand that desire to just, you know, maybe not say goodbye, but also say, I'm gonna go over there now. You know, for sure.
Kai Lun Qu: 1:00:56
Yeah, absolutely. I think we have to do that. I think I really think that we ourselves to do that. Really find out truly what it is we are actually interested in, you know,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:06
yes. Yeah.Give ourselves that freedom to explore and communicate with other branches of the arts that maybe we wouldn't have thought would impact us so deep. Yeah.Yeah, for sure. Oh, hell, yeah.Great. And then where can people find more of your work?
Kai Lun Qu: 1:01:26
Um, I just updated my website. So and that actually includes the newest painting that I'm going to be debuting at San Diego Comic Con. It's like this giant space piece. It's like this, you know, female astronaut with like, Planet exploding behind her. It was a more ambitious pieces. Yeah.Like I really tried taking, because I did like a ghostwriter piece before. And this is me just taking the elements of that and just expanding it tenfold.So yeah, I just updated my website on that. And I try to keep my website as updated as possible. And Instagram, but you know, yeah, so my website and Instagram both under my name,Kevin Q, so you can find it like that?
Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:12
Yeah.Perfect. Yeah. And we'll include all your links as well in the show notes. Oh, people. Yeah,
Kai Lun Qu: 1:02:16
yeah. Well, that's good. That's easy. Yeah. That's,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:20
yeah. Well, awesome. Thank you so much, Kai.
Kai Lun Qu: 1:02:23
Thank you so much for having me.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:25
Of course anytime.
Kai Lun Qu - Follow Your Joy