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On today's episode we sat down with Rob Rey, a fine artist who creates narrative scenes with allegorical figures representing aspects of science and space. He aims to help people feel a meaningful connection to the universe and natural world through his "Cosmic Perspective" series, which explores concepts like being made of stardust. Rob discusses his artistic journey, from being influenced by Joseph Campbell and Carl Sagan to developing his unique painting process and style. He shares the challenges of transitioning to a full-time art career, emphasizing the importance of living frugally and diversifying income streams. Rob also provides advice for aspiring artists, encouraging them to paint what they love, be patient as they build their careers, and to allow themselves to follow their curiosity. Rob's work and story remind us of the profound ways in which science, nature, and creativity can intertwine to foster a profound sense of belonging in the cosmic tapestry.
Rob's Website:
https://www.robreyfineart.com/
Rob's Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/robrey
Rob's YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RobRey
Rob's Instagram page:
https://www.instagram.com/robreyart/
Rob's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/robreyart
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Transcript:
Rob Rey: 0:00
I started to feel like I had had something I wanted to paint about. You know, for a long time, I just felt like, Oh, I'm making images for my portfolio, just things, something that looks good to go into the portfolio and get some work or whatever. And but when I started coming up with these cosmic perspective ideas, that was really a point where I was like, Oh, I've got something I want to talk about. Got something to want to paint about, and now I've got the drive to, you know, to create something that you know isn't just something, something pretty to look at, but you know has some meaning to me, at least. Welcome
Laura Arango Baier: 0:34
to the bold brush show where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. On today's episode, we sat down with Rob Ray, a fine artist who creates narrative scenes with allegorical figures representing aspects of science and space. He aims to help people feel a meaningful connection to the universe and natural world through his cosmic perspective series, which explores concepts like being made of stardust, Rob discusses his artistic journey from being influenced by Joseph Campbell and Carl Sagan to developing his unique painting process and style. He shares the challenges of transitioning to a full time art career, emphasizing the importance of living frugally and diversifying income streams. Rob also provides advice for aspiring artists, encouraging them to paint what they love, be patient as they build their careers and to allow themselves to follow their curiosity. Rob's work and story remind us of the profound ways in which science, nature and creativity can intertwine to foster a profound sense of belonging in the cosmic tapestry. Welcome Rob to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?
Rob Rey: 1:56
Great. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:58
I'm excited to have you because, as I was mentioning before we started recording, that your work is absolutely gorgeous. I love the colors. I love the vibe. They are so dreamy and so cosmic. Oh, I could stare at them for hours, and also the the effects, the brush work, everything, everything, absolutely delicious.
Rob Rey: 2:19
Thank you. You're very nice to hear, yes,
Laura Arango Baier: 2:23
yes, and it's very nice to see. So thank you for that. So before we dive into your amazing, gorgeous work, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?
Rob Rey: 2:34
Sure, so I paint narrative scenes with allegorical figures that represent aspects of science and space. I call it my cosmic perspective series, and it's so I use these algorithm figures to try to make images that help people feel a meaningful connection to the universe and the natural world, because I feel that Nature and Science can provide not only a lot of the awe and wonder that we're used to thinking of the science, but also a lot of the quote, unquote, meaning or feelings of connection that people are looking for these days in the absence of religion, or even alongside religion. So for instance, several of my paintings are representations of the concept that we are made of stardust, which is that we know scientifically that only the lightest elements, hydrogen, helium and a little bit of lithium were created at the beginning of the universe, and all of the other heavier elements, the oxygen and nitrogen and carbon that were made of had to be forged In the cores of stars had to be fused, and that's the only place that those elements come from. So those stars, those early stars, had to explode and spread those elements all across the universe, and so that new solar systems like ours could form with those elements and those ingredients for life. So we know that those elements that we're made of were actually ones inside of stars, because that's the only place that they come from. So we are literally made a Stardust. And I think this can help us feel a sense of connection and belonging to the universe that we might not otherwise have felt, because, you know, sometimes, but rightly so in some ways, when you look at it, the universe, it is vast, but you can feel and you can so you might feel small, but when you look out at the stars, and you know that our elements came from those stars, and we are a part of all of this going on, that we can feel a little bit larger and more, you know, connected to things. So I think that's, you know, that's an example of some of the ways that science can provide some meaningful connection to the world around us. A few other of my paintings are about how we have same number of neurons in our brain as there are stars in a typical galaxy. It's about 80 to 100 billion. In, and I draw that connection in the image for a couple of reasons. One is just that, that that those numbers are so large that it's hard for us to comprehend numbers that big. So by comparison, that's kind of how our brains work, is we understand things by comparison. We can compare the galaxy to brain, and kind of get a graph graph on that a little bit as much as we can. And then secondly, maybe more importantly, is to help us appreciate the astonishing complexity of biology and the brain and what it takes to experience consciousness as we do so. In that way, it's a little bit of gratitude to the world around us that we can experience what we what we see is, you know, so much of the universe is non sentient and doesn't have that ability, but we have evolved over 4 billion years and thinking about what that means to be human and to have The ability to experience the world around us. So, so those are a couple of ways that you can have a meaningful connection to the universe around us, just by So, through through science, in the natural world and and I try to make images because, because we are a storytelling species, and we live our lives by stories in one way or another that we it helps to have these stories around. And I feel that with art, you can have it on your wall, and you can remind you on a regular basis that we're made of stardust, and you can feel that connection. So that's sort of what I'm trying to do. So
Laura Arango Baier: 6:35
I love it, yeah, I love it. And I especially love Yeah, you're welcome. I love a couple things that you mentioned. One of the first ones that stood out to me is that yearning for connection. And I feel like today, so many of us, and I don't know what it is, it could be technology, it could be globalization, it could be a lot of reasons that we all feel very, very isolated. Also, I think post pandemic, especially, we all have this feeling of isolation that remained with us because of the pandemic, in my opinion, where we feel like this strange separateness, there's no real, like way to connect with people easily anymore, in my opinion, like I think it could be technology, and I feel like what you're mentioning is so important, because I myself have felt that isolation. And I'm sure many of our listeners as well have felt that internal isolation, lack of connection, and that yearning. And I find it beautiful that your work, which I would also say is made of stardust, is reaching out and connecting to people as well. True,
Rob Rey: 7:37
made of elements that are heavier than hydrogen and helium. So it started somewhere,
Laura Arango Baier: 7:42
which is so cool that, you know, everything is recycled that way. Like, sometimes I think about how, like, the water I drink today might have been instead of a dinosaur at one point, or it might have been floating in the universe somewhere, and, and I love that you mentioned that that it is, it's very hard to fathom that, because we're, gosh, our existence is barely 1% right of everything that's ever happened in the universe so far. So it's really, it's very mind bending, and it can be very challenging for people to, I guess, hold that immense thought in their brain because it's so unfathomable.
Rob Rey: 8:22
Yeah, I wanted one comparison that I love for fathoming the history of time. If you take the history of the universe as your arm span, you spread out your arms, and then the length of time that humanity has existed could be removed from the tip of your fingernail with a single swipe of a nano file. So that's how long we've been around, yeah? And that's just us, but our species,
Laura Arango Baier: 8:49
yeah, that's insane. That is insane, yeah. And the time we even spend on Earth, which is barely 100 years in most cases, for most people, that's nothing. It's nothing. So of course, it's very challenging, and I love that your your goal with your work is to tell that tell those stories right? Because, like you said, we are. We're a very narrative creature. We we live through stories. And what I discovered recently also is that when someone's reading a story or reading a book or even seeing a picture of someone doing something, right? They oftentimes the parts of their brain where they themselves are doing that action in real life light up, right? So if I read someone reading a like a drinking a coffee or smelling it, I my olfactory senses in my brain are turned on, which is really interesting. Yeah, it is really neat. Yeah, yeah. And I love that narrative side of of your work as well, which actually this is all very grand, and it makes me wonder, when did you begin your path of the artist, and how did it lead into this scientific narrative journey for you? Yeah?
Rob Rey: 10:00
Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I started, you know, getting interested in art in high school, and followed that into art school, and I always found mythology very interesting, so I sort of followed that path, and just I had an interest in it and and then one of my teachers in college showed me, got introduced me to Joseph Campbell and his his way of interpreting mythology, and that I found very interesting and kind of meaningful. And then, then I kept reading after college, and I got into the works of Carl Sagan, astronomer Carl Sagan and his really elegant way of talking about the universe. And he's He is known for popularizing the idea that we're made of stardust. It's an idea that's been around for a while, but he spoke about a lot. He's known for his Cosmos series that came out in the 70s as a TV series, and recently, in the last five years or so, Neil deGrasse Tyson continued it, but it's a great series, and he's he's done a lot of great writing. So that really got me thinking about how meaningful science and the universe can be to us in the natural world is as a narrative storytelling vehicle. So it took me a while to figure out how I could make art about it, because it's there's such lofty concepts that was really a struggle for a while. And so I went to school for illustration. And one of the things I felt like they they really drilled into me, which was that, you know, the idea with illustration is you should be able to tell your whole story in the image. You shouldn't need to write anything with it. And so I was really trying to figure out how to do that. And eventually I just realized that maybe I could do it. But if I did it would, it would look like a political cartoon, you know, it'd be, it would be too much telling in the image. You know, that's the only way to get some of these concepts into into an image. But I still wanted them to be beautiful and evocative and not just just be hitting you over the head with things. So I eventually realized I need to write stuff with these, you know, it has to be, there has to be some writing, and there has to be some storytelling, and that's fine. And so when I allowed that to happen, then I started figuring out, you know, more easily, how I could paint about this stuff. So, and I think that was really helpful. And it also, you know, as the years went on and social media became, it matured, I guess you could say, and people started saying, like, oh, yeah, you should be writing things with your art anyway to get people interested in it. Like, it made me think, Well, okay, yeah, it's fine. I'm doing these writings. But it's also funny, because I started doing this writing as a way to explain my paintings, and not, not as a marketing trying to sell them. But that's, that's just how I came about it. So, yeah, wow,
Laura Arango Baier: 13:11
but wow, that's awesome. And I really, I think the interesting part too, is how your journey led to this, right? It's, it's, it's very organic that you settled into this. Carl, Sagan, Joseph Campbell, reaching, trying to reach beyond with the tools you got from illustration, right? I really love that illustration does have this show, don't tell. Uh, kind of mentality, of course, with your your like, I guess your concepts, it can be very challenging to have them come across, because they are so unfathomable.
Rob Rey: 13:49
How do you talk about the scale of the Universe in a picture plane this big,
Laura Arango Baier: 13:55
five by eight? It's not easy. So you're tackling something very challenging, which is really cool, because I'm sure once, once you finish a piece, it must feel very satisfying in a lot of ways. Um, and actually, that that didn't make me want to ask, you know about your process? You know, how does that process happen for you? Because I think I read in your website that oftentimes it's very challenging for you to, you know, come up with, like, go from concept into Image, because it is so complex and it is the show, don't tell. Type of perspective. What's your process like, from idea to final piece?
Rob Rey: 14:34
Yeah, for ideas, you know, kind of like how I said it could get too indestructive to too much hitting you over the head with things. I do have a tendency to do that. If I set out with a concept that I'm, you know, I want to talk about this specifically, then I'll, I'll end up putting too much in it. And it's, it's, can be it can be that. So I do find it helpful to just kind of start with you. Imagery that I find beautiful and interesting, also with space. You know, space is pretty empty, so in some ways, it can be a struggle to find things that are really visually appealing. There are things that are visually appealing, but there's a lot of empty space in between. And if you're being really literal with it, you could, you could say, well, there be maybe that would, that little thing would be interesting, but you'd have so much empty space around it. But I, you know, you can kind of cram more thing just to make it an interesting image. But remember where I was going with that. But in any case, so I try to make, I try to make an an interesting image first, and then I kind of figure out what it's about. And I have all these concepts that in my mind that I want to talk about. So I usually find something that kind of fits with it, and that I find makes a better image than if I try to say it all at the beginning. So yeah, so that, in terms of concepts, I kind of explore very openly the way that I want, what's going to be in the image, and I sketch and do some nail sketches, and then work up a larger sketch when I've got an idea that I think is working. And so then these days, I'll usually do a digital sketch, and I've got an iPad, so I usually just work on that. And then from there, I do like to do a traditional study, if I have time. And so I do a small painting, because a lot of my work is dependent on brush work, and I like to work out some of that brush work in a small scale first, because I feel like you can be a little bit more there's a little bit more bravado in a tiny painting, because you've got even small brushes on a small surface can be big brush strokes. And so it gives you the opportunity to kind of try some things on a small scale. And then when you see that they're working, and I move to the larger painting that I can say, oh, it looks good in the small one. So yeah, just like for that big brush work in there, and I don't have to worry about it as much. So that's kind of helpful. I like doing those studies. I do a lot of preliminary work, and which is what slows me down. I am not real fast painter, but that's one of my struggles. But I think it's important to get that preliminary work in there and get it right. So, so that's what I do. And in some ways, I I've made it difficult for myself in that way, that because I like, I really like all of prima looking paintings, I like a single layer. And so that has made things difficult for me, because on the larger scale paintings, it's really hard to get all of that in in a single layer. And I have come up with a process that works for me, and it's a little bit convoluted, and I don't really recommend it, but it's what I do because I like that look, and so I do the small studies to tell me what the full image is going to look like when I'm done. I do all those studies so that I know how it's all going to fit together. But when I do the final painting, I work section by section, which is typically a big no no, and that's, that's why I tell people I don't really recommend it, but I will, I will start saying, you know, one corner and work around the picture plane so that each section I can work to completion while it's wet, and then I work a section adjacent to that so I can sort of work the wet edge of the last one. Keep going around and do as as much wet into wet as possible. I also use clove oil in my paint to keep it wet longer, and that is really helpful, but, but yeah, so it's it's not the way that you're typically told to make a painting, but it's the way that I found that works to get the look that I want. So
Laura Arango Baier: 19:17
yes, yeah, yeah. And I think that wet into wet effect that you have in your work really lends into that mystical sort of look that it has, because it's very I think the effect that it produces is very organic. It's very flowy, which I feel like what you're putting through in your work is very much about flow and that organic side of things. So I actually, I think it's a great thing that you work like that to maintain that effect. I know it's hard, but I think working piecemeal, the way that you're you're doing and with long like slow dryer, slow drying oils, that is so useful and very smart. And I mean, in any case, you already figured it out in the small and I think it would be really challenging. Challenging. If you did, you went ahead and did the big one without having those puzzle pieces already arranged and organized and set. Yeah, yeah.
Rob Rey: 20:08
For me, at least, it doesn't work out, which is why I do the studies, because I need those to work from for Exactly, yeah. I mean, maybe somebody could do it, but I need those studies to know how, how it's going to work out together. Yeah, all fit together, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 20:24
And it's, it's so funny that you have that as a process, because that's very scientific. Let's start at a small scale, and then we can do it in a big scale. Let's test it literally, like for scientific method, yeah, yeah. Which is, I mean, it's, it's there for reason. It's useful, and we naturally do the scientific method anyway. So, um, it works out. It's very meta, that it's like the scientific method of scientific representations, which is great. And actually, I'm also one of those people who, for a big painting, especially, or a larger painting, I think it's, it's just so much more useful to figure out all the little kinks in a smaller piece, and then maybe when you get to the big piece and you realize, hey, you know, when I changed my mind about one thing, you can still do it, because you still have this entire guide that you've created for yourself. You've done your little practice run. You don't go into, in my opinion, an Olympian doesn't, you know, run a marathon without months and months of training before, right? So I feel like with studies, it's a little bit like that, just Yeah, and not everything gets
Rob Rey: 21:26
worked out. It, it can be an iterative process. Yeah? With each studies, I improve bits of it. So that is also Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 21:34
exactly. And then I'm so the the image that you get in your head? Does it just pop up? Or do you have a concept and then it starts building itself? Or do you also look at like, maybe take pictures as reference? Like, how does that side work?
Rob Rey: 21:50
Oh, yeah. Reference is part of it too. But I tend to wait on the reference until I know what it is I want to paint, because I don't want the reference to roll painting too much. So sometimes I will take reference photo and work it into becoming a painting. But as much as I can, I like to come up with the idea first. And yeah, so I kind of, I found it helpful to sort of Daydream an ideas and sort of let my, my brain take over the the dreamy quality of of coming up with a scene, if I otherwise they can be too. I don't know the words for it, but things come out. And, you know, flowy and dream, dream like when you you let your your brain, do that sort of daydream, and come up with the things that look interesting. So, so I do find that helpful. And and I, like I said earlier, I usually let the concepts develop slowly along with them, because I have lots of ideas that I want to paint about in my head, and usually what I end up developing fits into one of those ideas and works to kind of go along with it, not all the time, but often. So that is usually helpful, although I'm getting to a point now where I'm I've done a lot of the ideas that I had, and now I have the ones that are maybe haven't come as naturally, or maybe a little bit more difficult to so I'm probably going to do a little bit more in the near future where I'm working on a specific idea rather than letting it flow naturally, but, but that's I do. I do both, I guess. Yeah. So, for instance, like this, this painting here is intends to paint two more that are, that's, that's the first of a triptych that's I'm planning to make the history of the universe. So, you know, that's a very specific idea. It's not just going to flow out of anything I create. So that's, that's the plan for the future. Oh,
Laura Arango Baier: 24:08
that is so cool. And honestly, the moment you said triptych, I'm all in. I love triptychs. I think they're so gorgeous. And also that that, you know, triptychs were used to story tell as well, right? They were used to express, like, this is what happened here, and then this happened, and then this happened, type of visual storytelling. So I think it's perfect. It's very perfect. Oh, and I can't wait to see the frame you're going to use, because that's going to add, honestly, like, I all of these little details. I think are things that add to the story, right? So, yeah, it's going to be amazing. I can't wait to see that. I'm going to I'm going to be stalking you on Instagram, just to make sure I don't miss it, because it's going to be amazing. Yeah. And then I also wanted to ask, because your work is very one of the things actually that I mentioned before is your work looks very digital, which I know it isn't. When I first thought I was like, Oh, my God, is Is this an oil painting? And then when I saw your your YouTube videos where you were showing the process, I was so taken aback. Was like, how is he doing that? Like, this is magic and and it also makes me wonder, because you did study illustration, and you did mention that you did a little bit of, like, working digitally, but you don't, which I find is interesting, because it makes me wonder what some of your other influences may have been in terms of painting. Do you have painters that have influenced you, or people you look at when you paint?
Rob Rey: 25:35
Yeah, I do get that sometimes from the My Work can look digital, but it isn't. I do studies digitally. But, like I said, but I don't, I haven't brought a painting to finish in digital in a very long time, so I do all oil. And I do find digital helpful for trying things out. I think it's great for that. You know, you can change the colors really quickly, and that's why I do my sketches digitally, because you can experiment a lot really quickly in digital, but I do like oil so much that I stick with that so but I do look at both digital and traditional artists for inspiration and so many inspirations, but I'd say some of my bigger ones i i studied with an illustrator named John Foster in college, and he was really helpful, and I learned some good painting technique from him. And he has, he's done some great Star Wars novel covers like that that were really inspiring to me and and then for maybe all, all artists my the ones I usually talk about first are John William Waterhouse, Alphonse Mucha and and then another illustrator from the 90s, Jeffrey Catherine Jones, are all some of my favorites. All very, I think especially muka flowy work, I do like to create compositions that flow nicely. That is a big part of things for me so and I've just, I love all that work and all that the brush work in Jeffrey Kevin Jones and John Foster and John Singer Sargent. And, you know, all the, all of those brushy works and, and I love the the narrative of John Waterhouse. So yeah, oh, all of those. And there's so many more, which I have a folder on my computer of 10s of 1000s of images. So,
Laura Arango Baier: 27:41
yeah, yeah. And honestly, I you picked very good ones too to you know as like the four four runners to represent your influences, because muka is, he is such a master of design. And also the he makes it look so organic, despite it being quite planned out, which, but he makes it look so effortless that I can see why you would look at him as a reference, because he is just delicious, also in terms of his designs and the flow, a lot of flow, I feel like that's, that's the word that best represents your work, is flow and organic.
Rob Rey: 28:18
Love. It good to hear. Good to be here,
Laura Arango Baier: 28:20
yeah. And then, actually, I did want to ask you, because you've always been in the arts, you've been in illustration, did you have a moment where you jumped into this career full time, or has it always been like that?
Rob Rey: 28:35
Yeah, I didn't get into it full time because I came out of art school. I could tell at that time, my portfolio was not really quite at a professional level yet, and so I knew I needed more time to to improve. And so I took that time. I got a part time job at a frame shop, and I worked there for about five to seven years, I'd say, while I transitioned to becoming a full time artist and that I think that was ultimately a good choice, because I just, I came out of art school, and I didn't want to be carrying around this portfolio of work that just wasn't up to snuff, you know, I wanted it to be I wanted to feel confident about the work that I was showing around and trying To get illustration work with so I did that. I spent a lot of time learning after school, because I did not get everything I felt like I needed from from school, and did a lot of learning on my own afterwards, and developed and eventually started getting the work that I was looking for, which actually, I never really made the transition to pursuing that work very well. I think I it did. So there are ups and downs coming out of school and saying, I'm going to work on my portfolio got me to improve, which was great, but it also put me in this mindset of improving rather than you. Promoting. And so the work maybe came slow, more slowly than it could have but, but I it also allowed me to develop my personal work in a way that might not have happened if I had just jumped into illustration as a career and just on that so, so there's up and ups and downs to it, but that's, that's kind of how I, I went with it. But I started getting some jobs slowly and eventually it became enough to go full time art. And always in the entire time it was, it was both fine art and illustration. So,
Laura Arango Baier: 30:40
yeah, yeah. At BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that's BOLDBRUSHshow.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special ink FASO.com/podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, FASO.com/podcast. That's faso.com forward slash podcast. It's really good that you were working on both, because sometimes you might hear some people who say, Oh, don't. Don't do your like, make sure your job isn't like, what you do on the side as a painter, right? Don't, don't have a job. That's like, arts related. But I've actually had other illustrators like you who mentioned like, oh yeah, I did my illustration on over here, and that led me to practice more for what I was doing over there, so it can they can feed into each other. I think some people maybe just feel like they might burn out, but if you can handle it, I like you did, I think it's brilliant. And what would you say was one of the biggest challenges that you faced when you made that that jump?
Rob Rey: 33:02
Hmm, well, you never know if it's if it's going to be enough, really, when you're making that transition, unless you know things are going great. But for me, it was, it was slow, so it's it was hard to know for sure if it was going to be enough to serve up, to live on, but I managed to make it work. And it was nice that I had the part time frame shop job that I had was nice, and that I could sort of taper off on it. I didn't have to quit hard, you know, I could for a while, I was still working there with shorter hours, and still had my frame discount. And, you know, it was helpful, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 33:42
yeah, because frames can be expensive. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's, that's awesome, too, that you mentioned, you know, tapering instead of just clean cut. Because for some people, clean cut works. For other people, maybe tapering might be a little bit better, since, you know, you never know the economic situation. And of course, we've had guests who have also mentioned, you know, living below your means. So there's a lot that goes into it that's very can be very scary. But once you're like, at that moment, like, what was the moment where you were just like, sitting and you were like, oh my god, I'm doing this full time. I'm an artist.
Rob Rey: 34:20
I don't know. I I'm pretty slow and thoughtful about things. I'm not sure there was a moment exactly, but, or at least not that I remember but, but I think there were several moments probably where I was, I was thinking, Yeah, all right, I'm gonna do it. And then, you know, a month later, I was like, Well, okay, I'll still pick up a few hours of frame shop. And then, you know, there's another moment where you're like, Alright, I'm gonna do it. And then, you know, eventually, eventually, it actually happened. But so it was a slow, it was a slow process. It's okay, yeah, it was good. You mentioned living below your means that is also something I definitely did a lot of. I. I lived as cheaply as I could to so that I didn't need, you know, a full time job to support myself. That was a big part of my plan. So, yeah, it because if you're working a full time job, it's really hard to put in the hours after that to improve your portfolio and get your work where it needs to be. So that was, that was part of it. So
Laura Arango Baier: 35:27
yeah, for sure, yeah. Because you know, full time job can be so taxing on your energy and your creativity too, I feel like, yeah, like when, when, when I've interviewed guests who have had full time jobs, which, oh my gosh. I admire them. They always mentioned how they were just sleeping less and doing as much as they could. And, you know, if you know, maybe some of our listeners have a temperament of, I don't have that much energy. They can take your route, which is, you know, live as below your means as you can, and have that, which isn't easy either. No, it's not, it's definitely not, but at least you can, you can, you know, rest a little bit more and have more time to develop that creative side, which I love that you mentioned, that, you know, giving yourself that time, to really allow your your voice, to start showing through. You know, like giving yourself that time and that grace period of I want to figure myself out. Want to figure out what I want to do, and also, you know, develop more technique. I think that's something else that is very helpful for some people. And it takes the time that it takes, how long did it, more or less take you to really, I guess flow into that voice of yours. How like after school?
Rob Rey: 36:47
Um, to develop my personal work, the COVID perspective thing. Um, well, I guess it was getting close to 10 years, maybe seven to eight years. But you know, actually, now that you say, I think it probably did have to do with, also my transition out of the part time job, also is that I started to feel like I had had something I wanted to paint about. You know, for a long time, I just felt like, Oh, I'm making images for my portfolio, just things, something that looks good to go into the portfolio and get some work. And get some work or whatever, and but when I started coming up with these cosmic perspective ideas, that was really a point where I was like, Oh, I've got something I want to talk about. Got something I want to paint about. And now I've got the drive to, you know, to create something that, you know, isn't just something, something pretty to look at, but, you know, has some meaning to me, at least. So, so
Laura Arango Baier: 37:46
interesting, yeah, because obviously, you know, every every guest, I've come to the same conclusion with many guests, which is, paint what you love right, which it seems like what you arrived at, right, is very different from, I instinctively already know what I love. It became more of like, this is what arose for you, right? The galaxies, the cosmic side, the narrative. So it's interesting to see that perspective of someone who, through their own personal exploration, reached a very different avenue, a very different, I guess, love, right? Different passion, that if you didn't have that time to reflect, maybe you might not have reached it, right? Yeah, yeah.
Rob Rey: 38:30
I definitely came to a point where space in science and the natural world were becoming very meaningful to me, and it was, it was a struggle to figure out how to put it into a painting, because it's, they're very, you know, as I said before, large concepts and big ideas. So how do you, you know, encapsulate that into a painting, an image? And it took a while to do that. So,
Laura Arango Baier: 38:53
yeah, yeah. And then from that, I actually wanted to ask you, too, because obviously your work has reached a very beautiful crescendo and it's continued. How have you used narrative also in the marketing side of your work?
Rob Rey: 39:10
Yeah, well, so I do have little stories that I post with all of the paintings. And you know, like I said, that kind of developed from wanting to talk about these big concepts, and so that has come a little bit more naturally to me than maybe it would come for some other other people who maybe, if you arrived at some set of images, a set of paintings, and didn't have a whole lot extra to say about them, might be harder, but for me it was. That's what I wanted to do, was tell people about them. So it kind of grew very naturally to to explain the deeper concepts about space and perspective of cosmic perspective Stardust and and I've also, you know, tried to incorporate. Great Other ideas about things that psychologically are helpful and meaningful to us because, because I do feel like science can fulfill those human needs that we have, or the natural world through science. So, you know, look into positive psychology. And gratitude, for instance, is a really important thing for us psychologically, and so it's good to incorporate things that help us feel gratitude. And doesn't have to be gratitude towards any person or anything, but just for the fact that we can experience the universe or that, you know, what am I going to paint? Is called the magnetosphere, and it's about just having gratitude for something that we kind of take for granted most of the time, which is that our Earth has a magnetosphere, a magnetic bubble around it, basically created by the moving core, and this protects us from the solar radiation that would otherwise make it very difficult for life to exist on Earth, if we didn't have that magnetosphere, our atmosphere would get blown away by the solar wind, and our planet would look a lot more like Mars, probably. So it would be much harder for life to exist, and we can just have some gratitude that we have that magnetosphere, and we can be here. So I think you know that I try to incorporate things like that. And as well, as you know more of the scientific points, like how we're made of stardust, and, yeah, I'm always looking for, for more angles on, on ways to feel that meaningful connection to the natural world and and that's some of the ways that I've found. So, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 41:41
yeah. And that really, wow. That really made me realize how, like, how much of an anomaly we are, and how critical, yeah, how critical it is that we can even be conscious, right, and experience all of us, like you said, that's a big one, yeah. And
Rob Rey: 41:59
having that gratitude is really helpful psychologically, too. You know, to to just sit back and say, like, you know, it's just awesome that I can experience this at all. You know that I'm not just a rock sitting on the ground. I'm I am a part of the universe that has come become conscious and can now look out and experience the rest of the universe. And that's, I think, amazing. So
Laura Arango Baier: 42:20
incredible, incredible. Um, how have you because I obviously had a very positive response because I'm like, I feel like I'm your ideal audience. But also, how have you found that your audience on Instagram or social media or other platforms, how have you found that they have responded to your narrative side of your marketing, has it been positive?
Rob Rey: 42:43
Oh, it's, it's positive. But because I do feel like my work takes a little bit of explaining it, it is slow. It's, it's a it's not, I just don't put my work out there, and all of a sudden have a huge audience. I when I or when I go to conventions, and I am displaying and I talking to people. People will often come up and say, like, Oh, this is nice work. And then I talk about it, explain about explain it. And then they say, oh, oh, now I feel it. Now I love it, you know. And that's so it's, it kind of builds slowly, and people have to, I think, sort of get into it a little bit before they really get into it. So that that's been a struggle, I think, from from the beginning for my work, that it doesn't, it takes a little time for people to warm up to it, and but when they do, they tend to really get into it. So I think, I think that's great, but, but it hasn't. It's not, it's not a story that we have out there a whole lot yet, and that's kind of the, I guess the struggle is that there, you know, a lot of illustrators I know paint things that there's already stories about. They could, they can paint Lord of the Rings or other stories that people already know. And immediately, people, you know, know what that pain is about, and they love it because they love that character, whereas with me, you know, they may not already know the story of how we have the same number of neurons in our brain as there are stars in this typical galaxy. So that takes a little bit of explaining, and it's sort of a slow burn, but, but I find it meaningful. And I think a lot of other people too, once they they get a grasp of what it is that they find it really meaningful too. So, so it's, it's not all been easy. It's a little bit of a struggle to to get my get my message out there, but it's, it's very rewarding, I'd say, to to see the way people connect. So yeah, even if it's not explicit and
Laura Arango Baier: 44:45
quick, no, of course not. Yeah. I think what matters too is that the people who do love it like they they react like in a profound way to your work, right? Because it is very profound. And I agree that the struggle with, uh, with the the Neo narrative. Of life, and everything that you're creating is precisely that it is new, right? It is you're trying. And this is what we were talking about earlier as well. You're trying to create this sort of like, every consciousness, instead of every man, every consciousness, right? Like, which encompasses the everything and all. And that is very, that is a very challenging thing to reach for, and it's awesome that you're attempting it, because you know someone out there has to so it's Wow. I commend you greatly. Thank you. You're welcome. And also, I did see that you do have multiple platforms, and I wanted to ask you, because you know we were talking a little bit about the income side of things and how it can be a challenge. What have been your preferred streams of income for, you know, to be able to live as an artist?
Rob Rey: 45:53
Yeah, it has been varied. I have done teaching, I have I've done fine art, I've done illustration, you know, sold prints, sold originals. And there, there have been many years where I've asked myself that question. I've looked back at my income sheet and, you know, and added things up and like, oh well, what was the main thing this year? And oftentimes there wasn't one. It was just all put together with a bunch of different things. So, so, yeah, it really helps to diversify. And I've, I've done a lot of different things. I so I can't say that, you know, one thing was, was really what, what has been my bread and butter, you'd say, but I, I've done a lot of things that they all kind of fit together and make it work. So these days, I'm focusing on my personal work, and I've been working for Wizards of the Coast for illustration, doing illustration for Magic, The Gathering, the card game. And so that's been good lately. Yeah, I'm hoping to do more of that, if AI doesn't take over and take over all the illustration jobs, we'll see. But so far, they're still hiring illustrators, and it's been that's that's a pretty good income stream for part of it, and interestingly, not particularly the pay from the company, but the fact that there's a pretty good collector base for Magic the gallery. So it's actually kind of fine art too, in that I'm making more selling the original paintings to collectors of the game than I am making the art for the game. And that's interesting. But again, multiple income streams, and that's, you know, one of the reasons that I'm working for that game over other games right now. And so that's, that's one, thing about income streams, but it's, it's all, all kinds of things. I go to a convention or two a year, usually, and sell prints at those and hopefully an original here or there. And that's helpful selling online. You know, it's, it's kind of slow trickle. But when you go to a convention for that's good for selling prints, I can sell a whole lot more prints in a weekend than I would sell in the year online. So that's, you know, one way to do it that makes traveling to those conventions useful so, and it's always great to be there and talk to people about my work. Like I said, you know, those are, those are the places where I get to talk to people about it more, and where I see those interactions where people really get, get pulled in and like it. So it's rewarding too. But so, yeah, lots of different income streams. I'm not, I haven't been teaching for a while. I find that, you know, a whole nother side of things that is is great to do, but is can slow down my my other work a lot if I spend too much time doing it. So I kind of try to focus on my work. And then, you know, here and there, sometimes I do a workshop. It's not real common for me. So, yeah, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 49:26
no, that's really cool, because, you know, it goes to show that there's kind of like a bit of a season for things right right now you're in your season of, I'm not teaching, I'm working, and then maybe you'll go back into the teaching season once you feel like, Oh, well, I think I could totally benefit from teaching right now, but that that goes to show that even the career of an artist is very organic right there. There's no promise that, you know the plants are going to grow tomorrow and you're going to have your tomatoes, right? But maybe next year or like, it's just much more natural. In my opinion, it's much more like I said. And then the other thing that you mentioned that really went full circle was how talking to people at these conventions and telling them about your work, it creates that connection. Was just something that we were talking about at the beginning, that yearning for connection that we all have instinctively. You know, from birth, you know, we're looking for our parents to make that connection, to tell us, hey, we exist, you know, which is so cool,
Rob Rey: 50:29
yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really rewarding to talk to people about about the work, and see them get into it. So,
Laura Arango Baier: 50:37
yeah, good, yeah. You see a little glimmer in their eye, like, oh,
Rob Rey: 50:42
yeah, yeah, I do get to see that because, you know, there's a lot of artwork at some of these conventions. And they kind of get a little glaze as they're walking around. They're like, okay, yeah, okay, this is cool, too. And then I tell them about they're like,
Laura Arango Baier: 50:55
Yeah, wakes them up again a little bit, yeah. It can be very overwhelming to see so much work at connections. And then the other cool thing, I love that you're doing stuff for Magic, The Gathering, I feel like the honestly, the artwork on their cards, the illustrations are absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous. So I love that, you know, collector base, yeah, you found a collector base through there, and that is so cool. And they paid really well, like the collectors themselves, to get the original, because that's such a big deal for them. It's like, oh, you see this original? Yeah, it's from this card over here that you guys all have. Yeah, the original that is so cool.
Rob Rey: 51:37
It's interesting. And like, like, I suppose any sort of market there's its own little quirks to it, because it's so connected to the game lot of time, the price of what a painting will sell for depends on how good the art is. So which is, you know, not something that you're used to in the art world, you know? Yeah, it's a whole another way of looking at things. You know, you might put a whole lot of work into this painting that is for a very common card. And then people are like, Oh, but it's a comp card. And then some paintings that, you know is maybe it was easier, but it was on a more important card. People pay a lot of money for that. So, you know, it's a market all its own that is,
Laura Arango Baier: 52:24
you know, different. So it's so cool. That is so cool, yeah, oh, it goes to show, you know, artists can definitely grow in in many unexpected places and in very unexpected ways, um, like, you could work, you know, on illustrations from Magic the Gathering, or just sell directly to collectors, work with a gallery like there are so many options out there. And I love that you mentioned your streams of income, because it's, yeah, there's so many opportunities out there that we don't know about. And actually, I did want to ask you, what advice would you give to someone who wants to become a full time artist?
Rob Rey: 53:04
That is a tough question these days, especially with AI coming out, because the future is so unknown right now for art. But I, you know, hoping that people continue to make art, and it doesn't all just become made by machines. I think a lot of the things that we touched on already, I think are some of the things that really helped me was, you know, getting a part time job so that I still had the energy to work on my work and living below my needs in a way that allowed me to put more time into my work. Or those, those were the things that I think I very consciously set out to do and allowed me to get where I am, because I have seen a lot of other people who graduated from art school and, you know, ran into difficulties of, you know, they got a part the full time job and just couldn't find the time to keep working on their art or or, you know, unfortunately, the realities sometimes are like they had a health condition that required more money and couldn't live below their needs, which is really unfortunate that that's, you know, a problem, but that can be a problem, and So I've been really fortunate to be able to follow the path I have and yeah, so, but those are the things that allowed me to get where I am. I think I would say, I guess, for advice, also to paint what you love. You know, as we mentioned, follow your your passions, because you know that's what's going to keep you working. You're going to keep working if you like what you're doing, and that's important. So it took me a long time to figure out how to work, what I what I was interested into art. But, you know, there's a way. So there's a way, yes,
Laura Arango Baier: 54:57
yes. That's great. That's great. And I. Yeah, yeah, those are all very valid points. It's not an easy career. Of course, it is a lot easier, like you said, if you're painting what you love, or, you know, allowing yourself to have that, that, I guess, that exploration phase to even reach it like you did, and I find that you've reached a very fruitful, I guess, like realm for yourself, right? Of things that you very clearly enjoy, you're very clearly passionate about. And I think that, in itself, is very inspiring. And I hope it's inspiring to our listeners to really go out there and maybe read about, I don't know, the crazy stuff that you like, and then you never know. You might read a line in a book that really changes your world, kind of like, you know, with you and Joseph Campbell and Carl Sagan,
Rob Rey: 55:44
yep, so
Laura Arango Baier: 55:45
and then I do know that you have a Patreon as well. Is there like? Is there any specific like, I guess, preferred social media or preferred site that you'd like to send your listeners to?
Rob Rey: 56:01
Well, I try to be on everything so that I'm available to whatever. You know, people prefer they. Everybody has the preferences. So if somebody spends all their time on one, I want to be available there. So I do try to put my work up on everything. But, you know, personally, I like, I like longer format things where I can write the things that I write with the paintings, and I don't have to truncate them things, places like Twitter, for example, I always have to cut it down to one sentence or something. Then I find that unfortunate. So so I like, you know, Facebook and Instagram are great for being able to write out enough, and Patreon is, is probably the best way to interact with my work, because it's all there, and I try to post there first. I've got a newsletter on my website. And so, yeah, they're all, they're all good means, but, yeah, I, but I put, I put the information out everywhere. I have the writing everywhere, so you can experience them with with that follow, however, however you like to best.
Laura Arango Baier: 57:09
Yeah, and what is your website?
Rob Rey: 57:12
My website is Rob Ray art, com. So real simple, and that's ray with an E. Rob Ray art,
Laura Arango Baier: 57:19
perfect, awesome. And then I will obviously include all of your links in our show notes, so our listeners can go check out your work while they're listening. I highly recommend it. It is so delicious. I keep using that word because I don't know your the colors the brushstrokes, so good, so good. Feast for the eyes. You're welcome. Well, thank you so much for being a guest on the show today.
Rob Rey: 57:46
Great. Yeah, it's been great to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course, you.
