Show Notes:
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For this episode, we brought together a compilation of our past guests sharing their tried-and-true marketing strategies for building a recognizable presence in the art world. They discuss the importance of chasing your own authenticity first rather than chasing the market, making sure you have social media in order for others to see your work, and they emphasize that one of the keys to having a good presence is having a professional website. You'll also hear insights on crafting your personal brand by focusing on painting what you love, writing email newsletters to keep fans connected, and networking by attending in person events and meeting fellow artists and gallerists. Additionally, our past guests recommend things like taking small business classes to improve your marketing know-how and possibly even hiring a marketing coach. For those of us navigating the business side of art, this episode provides invaluable tips on balancing genuine expression with smart self-promotion. Tune in to discover marketing techniques that can elevate your career and remember that there is no art marketing without first having art.
Episodes featured:
70 Kathie Odom
74 Arthur Gain
77 Aaron Westerberg
85 Stephanie Birdsall
87 Johanna Spinks
95 John Lasater IV
96 Brienne Brown
105 S.C. Mummert
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Transcript:
Johanna Spinks: 0:00
There's never been an easier time to get your artwork in front of eyeballs if your aim is to sell your art, because
Brienne Brown: 0:08
as an artist, we're taught and you're taught how to paint you love what you do, you paint what you love. But actually trying to sell your work took something else, and running a business took something else. What happens
S.C. Mummert: 0:20
when you begin to understand and get a better grip and dig into marketing? It actually helps you in the creation of your art. You wouldn't think it would necessarily, but what it begins to do, it helps you start to get a grip on your audience that you're creating the art for.
Laura Arango Baier: 0:40
Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others were in careers tied to the art world. In order to hear their advice and insights. For this episode, we brought together a compilation of our past guests sharing their tried and true marketing strategies for building a recognizable presence in the art world. They discuss the importance of choosing your own authenticity first, rather than chasing the market, making sure you have social media in order for others to see your work, and they emphasize that one of the keys to having a good presence is having a professional website. You'll also hear insights on crafting your personal brand by focusing on painting what you love, writing email newsletters to keep fans connected and networking by attending in person events and meeting fellow artists and gallerists. Additionally, our past guests recommend things like taking small business classes to improve your marketing know how, and possibly even hiring a marketing coach for those of us navigating the business side of art, this episode provides invaluable tips on balancing genuine expression with smart self promotion. Tune in to discover marketing techniques that can elevate your career, and remember that there is no art marketing without first having art.
Buddy Odom: 2:05
It's called Kathy Odum. First of all, that's what it's called. And I always
Kathie Odom: 2:10
say I have beat to power, and I do, and I use it.
Buddy Odom: 2:17
She does. She does. I mean, it's not my name out there, and it's not my work. I've never painted one single brush stroke on any painting of hers, of course, and so, so I'm just, I'm here to say I'll do everything I can to help you continue to paint and teach. And whatever that, whatever that takes. And we are, we are empty nesters. I mean, we have five grandkids, and they live in other cities, not too far away, but far enough to keep us with some extra hours, if you will, to be able to apply toward toward the marketing of that in it, I would
Kathie Odom: 2:58
say that when we did start thinking in that way of marketing, something that was just resound in me was it's got to be about the art, not just a unique way of showing the Art. I mean, although that all of that happens, but first and foremost, the first thing is, it's got to be about the art. And I think instead of, you know, just, I mean, buddy has ideas just constantly, and it there. They've been great ones. And I would say Faso has been a gift to us, and the fact that it offers, I would say the best marketing thing we have done, which is totally buddy putting it together, has been the newsletter connection on our website, which is our Faso website, and I know that that's who I'm talking to right now, but I would say this to anybody that that was a tool that has gone out. We've done a newsletter once a month for about eight years. For eight years, it happens at the beginning of the month, sometimes a couple of days late, but I've never seen somebody stay on something like buddy has, and it's all about what's happening. Now you know, what workshops are we am I teaching, what trips are we going on? What where are we? What have I been painting lately? And that has been probably one of the best marketing tools. It's definitely
Buddy Odom: 4:54
Yeah, way to go. Faso, way, way to go. But it is, anyone listening, I'm telling you, start. Newsletter. You know, the best time to plant a Sequoia is one serve was like 800 years ago. The second time, the second best time to plant a Sequoia is today. So you start something that's gone. We've gone eight years at this every month, and it's not too much by you know, it's we haven't done it every two or three weeks or one week, and we haven't skipped times. We've just stayed steady in her her following has grown over eight years all by itself. And people subscribe to the newsletter. Hopefully the paintings had a little something, had nothing to do with it whatsoever, because it's so full circle to what she's really full circle to what she's really saying is it's about the art and we and of course, there's an artist behind the art, but you lead with the beauty, and then you find out who's, you know, busy creating that, and how she goes about it, and you become very intrigued with that. But if you're not hooked on the art, I mean, how are you going to get hooked on creating something that you don't care about? So yeah, it's about travels and workshops and and galleries and new release paintings. And
Kathie Odom: 6:08
I think, Well, we both have been talking lately about just diversifying, just not getting in a groove, and just staying there. So we definitely I do plein air events. I do work. I teach workshops, I work in the studio. I go out with my friends here in my area to plein air pain. She's
Buddy Odom: 6:36
in galleries. She's done a book. So there's so many different things to diversify, so that when something like COVID hits and really shuts one or two of the sides of sides down.
Kathie Odom: 6:49
So we got into zoom teaching during COVID, and it that was amazing. Just how many I mean there, there is the word courage, because I said I would never, ever do anything where I was recording like this, and here I am with you. I mean it. You know, I had a horrible experience at the University of Tennessee being told that I had a disease of the voice. It's just been a, you know, PTSD thing. But anyway, even to put a book out, this was the conversation that went on. I'm not ready for a book. I haven't painted enough to have a book. I mean, it took the courage and my grandchildren because I thought, okay, let's put a book together. This has happened, and it's a unique, wonderful story. And I don't know how unique it is, I think there's a lot of us that get a late start, um, that it put our life toward other things, but, but it it was like, okay, and the book really speaks to that, what can happen if you have the courage to do it and and on the cover, Cathy Odum, let the art speak. Is the name of it, you know, it's, it's like, okay, let's do, let's go ahead and do it. And he is Buddy is a much more. We are complete opposites. And we, we really are. And if, truthfully, if I didn't have someone like him in my life, Courage would have gone out the window. I have to have courage to be married to him. I mean, you know, it's strong drink of water. But all of that and us get knowing each other and trusting and having ideas. We are talking ideas all the time, and
Buddy Odom: 9:19
part of that is because we want to. We've seen what has happened. I mean, we're not opposites when it comes to bringing beauty, we we're just all about it with both of us are so we have these ideas or thoughts, and a lot of it has to do, how can we inject courage into someone else so that this might, you know, just rip along and keep going, and that's with the grandkids too. I mean, they're they, they're going to have some copies, and, you know, Lord willing, they're going to grow old. And if you know, maybe they'll have kids and grandkids and great, you know. So it might just kind of keep on going in that respect, too. But if we can inject some courage into anyone to turn. Your computer off, stop watching this video right now and go pick up a brush, you know, if any, any of those sort of things, yeah,
John Lasater: 10:10
yeah. I think social media is one of the biggest drivers. Let's say it's so many people, most of the people they come through through this funnel. So social media, email marketing, mailing list, yeah, and offline as well. But yeah, I would say on online is and social media is the best. The best way is the best way to to make, to make people know about you and about what you really loved. Absolutely, absolutely both, both questions, yes, to sell, it is a little bit more tricky, since there are different budgets and sizes. So for small works for something like affordable, social media is fantastic. People are reaching out directly, or they come to the website. If there are studio sellers something, they pick up something for their homes or for their collections. Um, a lot of commissions are coming this way, because people, they can see that you are doing commission, for example, and they want to learn about it more, so they reach out, and sometimes they commission something. And, yeah, students, absolutely, because, especially I, you see, everyone should like I'm more concerned about the social media, which is less successful for me, least successful YouTube, for example, because I don't, I don't invest now in my YouTube channel a lot since I have no time, but every time I can, I do something for YouTube, because if for teaching, YouTube is fantastic, because YouTube gives You platform and possibility to share something important to teach someone, something without limitation of time or format. People can watch it on their smartphones, or they can watch it on the big screens, anywhere Instagram or Tiktok or even x Twitter. They're more confined to laptop or smartphone screens, but YouTube can be watched on normal TV, so you can actually show many things, and you can teach in in more in more free way and with like more possibilities, I will say, more possibilities to teach. So when people can learn something from you, most likely they will want to follow and to see what you've got else and what you can offer, which type of mentorship, which type of offline workshop, maybe, or online something. So YouTube is very important, in my opinion, so Instagram as well, because Instagram also can show the process. You can you can just make short tips and create great interesting narrative, not just to entertain or to impress someone, but also to share certain knowledge to show, to show what, what can be done and like to help people. So, yeah, yeah, for, for, for teaching, there are just absolutely fantastic. Yeah, just the last two advice I would give to everyone who is marketing or doing promotion and thinking about considering different social medias and stuff. I do believe that your own website is the best platform, and it is most important platform you need to constantly think about, to invest and to care about, because everything should lead to your website. So please visit my website, book what I'm doing, join my mailing list. There are all links you need to all my socials, to teaching offers, to boot camp, contact form for to get to commission waiting list and even Gallery, where you can purchase the work directly from me. So, yeah, the website, artful gain.com,
Aaron Westerberg: 14:49
paint what you love, you know. And you know, kind of, yeah, just, I think that's, that's the key to it, you know. I think. If you go in with, like a marketing strategy and things like that, it's going to be harder. You know, it's going to be harder. And if you just start small and and build from that, it becomes easier. Because a lot of times you get into a trap where you may have some studio overhead cost or whatever, and you feel like, well, if I paint this, then I can, you know, afford that. And, and you just get way out on an island that you don't want to be on, and painting stuff you don't want to paint, and it's difficult to enjoy painting that's, that's, that's probably the most important thing, you know, like to be successful and enjoy what you're doing. You know? Because, yeah, someone asked me, I think my dad is like, are you still enjoying it? I'm like, hell yeah. You know, like, yeah, for sure. You know, this is what I've been doing the whole time. And you know, I don't know if I want to say this part, but you know, like, I've done it, my parents no help, you know, like no money. So it's been, it's been tough, you know, because I didn't go to college. I went to junior college, but, but no, like, you know, official diploma, or anything like that, you know, degree, that's another thing that's good. You don't need a degree or anything to teach, generally, unless you're doing a accredited university. And even then, you don't need it, really. But, you know, I've taught it. I've taught at fashion schools, taught all over the place, and, yeah, they just care if you're good, and you could convey, you know, the message in a pleasant way, I guess, but, but yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, paint what you love, and you'll figure out how to make a living from that. You know, if you start small, I think, I think that's a good, good final thought,
Stephanie Birdsall: 17:01
I think they absolutely are. I have made so many great threat friends through going to some of the events, like the OPA national convention was just two weeks ago. I which I didn't go to this year because I wasn't wrong. But every time I go to one of those, first of all, it's a nonprofit, which I love. I love the nonprofits. I see people I haven't seen that I see once a year or I haven't seen in 10 years. I learn because they have great demos. It takes me. It gets me way too into an absolutely, you know, art four days where that's all that's going on. The tips that you learn from each other are amazing. And they Opa. I'm not trying to really push Opa, but I'm using it because it's the most recent thing. They have shows all the time, when you get your work in those shows, and some of them are online, some of them, some of them aren't, but you're getting exposure and visibility. And when you go to those shows you just plain, can't help but meet people. So I think those are great opportunities, and there are a lot of good organizations out there. I am I going to say you have to be in every organization that's out there. I couldn't keep up with it personally. But I think you pick and choose what you want to do. But some of the plein air events are so much fun. I've been at the plein air convention before, and I've demoed there, and I've painted there, and I see people that I would never see again if I didn't go, or I get to paint with someone that I used to paint with, you know, eight years ago in Tucson. I mean, they're all great opportunities. I think in person, I think we can't do everything online. We need to get out there and see, touch and feel, you know, and sit and
Johanna Spinks: 18:59
talk. It's very useful, I mean, in terms of marketing and your brand, and there's never been an easier time to get your artwork in front of eyeballs if your aim is to sell your art. I have many good friends who they have no interest in selling their art, and they are fabulous painters, so that doesn't apply to them. But if you are interested in selling your art, getting into galleries or whatever it is, the internet is a wonderful tool, if used wisely. I when I first started, you know, seeking out commissions that there wasn't an internet, it was all, can you imagine? It was all done by, oh, let's send out a mail, or let's send out a, you know, a holiday greeting card, etc, etc. But the good news of that was you were doing direct one to one marketing, where you were sending a handwritten note to the person you knew, the person they knew you. And that was that is something that I'm still very grateful for. Because those early commissions, those people are still now reading my email newsletter, and we're talking 20 years later, their kids have grown up, you know? And to me, that's that's something really to learn, that that that one to one is still very, very important. And I think in terms of marketing our art, we have forgotten that for those of us that are really in the sort of newer world, digital world, forgotten. And you know, in my opinion, and I can only speak from my own opinion, but Instagram and Facebook are just part of of what I think I should be doing, my main, my main thrust is still the as much direct communication as I can get with people is still my goal. You know, I mean, I'm, you know, even in the the thrust of my artwork, I'm interested in the direct interaction with people, the sitter, the person on the street, you know, I'm a people watch. I'd rather be sitting in a sidewalk cafe than in a forest. That's just me, you know. I'm interested through my portrait art, in, you know, the unique thread of humanity that connects us all. And I know from my my face project, which was a project done over a good seven years, and it was tied in with three different newspapers, one in Ventura, one in Malibu, and one in Charleston. And the sitter would come in do a two hour sitting, no more, because they're real people. They're not marvels. And then they would be interviewed for their life story, what they felt about being painted, and that would go into the newspaper, the newspaper cycle. So that, to me, you know, the sitter's life story was as important as you know, my painted sketch. And some of those sketches talk about putting your ego at the door. They weren't that good. But I, in fact, a lot of them weren't that good, but my thrust was, or my mission was, the direct interaction. So the moment that person left the room, their essence had gone. And you, in my opinion, for me, you know, if I start touching it up from a photo afterwards, okay, it looks more polished, but it is not. It's not the life force there anymore. So you have this juggle with, yeah, and my juggle was, No, I'm doing it that way, and it worked for me, and it was a tremendous experience. You know, I think I did. Oh, my goodness, 67 people for the face of insurer, I think 58 for the face of Malibu. And then I did 18 for which is one of my most favorite series of portraits, the face of Malibu rebuilds, which was people who had lost their homes in the Woolsey fire. So talk about seeing someone at their lowest, lowest, and I interviewed those people and did watercolors of them, you know, when they were no longer in their houses and they were in floods of tears. But yeah, it was it that was the most extraordinary experience, and that will be the thing that I will never forget the power of that, and actually get a bit choked up talking about it now, because it was just such a powerful thing, you know. And how also that art, but simple as it was, because these were pen and ink and watercolor drawings, it somehow meant something to them. And also, you know, getting their little store, not little, their big story in the paper about how they lost their fire, what they were doing. And by the way, this was the very early days of the fire, and I was displaced in a hotel to my the backside of my house got badly hit by the fire, so I was doing this from, you know, a hotel that, you know, with a bunch of the fire refugees. And, yeah, that that's the power of of art and how it can help just a little bit. It's not going to bring their house back, but, but it did help. It was, you know, and I got, I got so many emails after each one of those came out that it meant something to them. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 24:12
I completely agree, because that's basically what we seek as creatives, and what we seek as people who make images, you know the image isn't complete until you have someone who views it right. And just as you're saying too with with having a sitter, there's that connection, right? You want that. You're seeking that connection, and you're seeing them in their most vulnerable state as well, and you're respecting it alongside yes story, yeah. And that is, yeah, yeah. That is, you know, one of the greatest goals, I would say, for someone who is a portrait painter is, like you said earlier, too, to capture that essence of that person and to basically be a safe. Place for them to be themselves and to be vulnerable, which, like we were saying earlier to you know, there's that I feel like that's a little bit what's missing in the world today. And I love that you still do you know, the one on one, and you prefer that over online, which I completely agree even today, I would recommend for people to do what you're doing with or what you used to do with sending a postcard or, like, still connecting with those people? Yeah, because I think even today, we value that one on one connection even more. You know, also from your reaction to having painted these people and created such amazing, like, such an amazing series of paintings as well, that's a lot of lives that you have touched. Which is, oh, I cannot imagine.
Johanna Spinks: 25:41
They've touched me too. It's a two way street, you know, and the conversations that we had, and by the way, in the face of insurer, we I LinkedIn with the newspaper, and all those sitters went onto a radio show too, so after the sketch had been painted, so it really was about, you know, telling their story. And I think that's what made it powerful, actually. And I will say, if you're going to do these kind of things again, if you're interested in putting your artwork out there, in terms of marketing, and we have to talk about marketing that, you know, be kind of thinking, Well, you know, what is the end game of this as well. You know, because going off and painting 130 portraits of people is a big time commitment, as you know, doing a show like this, those things are a time commitment. You've got to arrange it. You've got to do this, that and the other. And it was a significant part of my yearly thing, doing that. So I was very aware right from the beginning that they were never going to be for sale, that they were, I think I sold one of them, and then said, Well, I did sell one of them, and it was a very bad idea. Changed my mind and asked if I could have it back and give her a painting instead, which, which, she lovely, lovely. So agreed to because this the Boone Special Collections archives had asked if they could take the Malibu and the rebuild series into their collection. And she was one, one of the paintings that was missing. I needed, I needed to have her included. So in terms of marketing and building your brand, you decide where you're you know what you're aiming for. I mean, I really wanted those portraits to be archivally stored somewhere. And I just started with that intention from the very beginning. And it took a lot of effort and a lot of very good people in the towns to help me achieve that. And that goes back to the one on one, contact with people. You know, the people that that are your connectors. You know, just, you know, nurture those the connectors. You know that somebody said, somebody famous, and I hope I'm not misquoting, but you know, if you have 100 sincere collectors that will last you a lifetime, and I say if you have 50 serious connectors, you know people who like you, like your art and stay with you over the years that will take you so far. You know the connectors are as gold as the connectors collectors are. Connectors are as gold as collectors. So, yeah, I would say, always have in mind, you know, that the mountain you're trying to reach in terms of, you know, well, could this go somewhere? So with the 365 days of drawing, you know, there was a show, there was a book, self published book. There was a article in American artist magazine that was so never think, Oh, I've done this. That's it. Like people, what can I do with it afterwards? Because a lot of the stuff for me happened after the individual Town projects were finished, the paintings were in storage. And then then I said, Well, now I start the what do we do with this? Yes,
Laura Arango Baier: 28:59
at BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that's BOLDBRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now more than ever. It's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com/podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal. Considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com/podcast. That's faso.com forward slash podcast.
John Lasater: 30:40
Well, I mean, Faso has been great. I know you want me to say that, and they have, well,
Laura Arango Baier: 30:46
you can say it, if you if you really feel it. I do. I
John Lasater: 30:50
do. Actually, I have really enjoyed being on I was a very independent person at the time. They came to me and and suggested I get a website with Faso, and I have, I've really come to appreciate the ability to have, you know, an E commerce side to it. And so I've been using it. I try to hide it. I kind of make little galleries for just a select group of people, and then I'll try to sell to those people. And so it's been nice to have that functionality. So So that's been great, actually, and I have sold quite a few through the through the website. So very grateful for that. I have never been that acceptable to galleries, I think because I cannot bring myself to repeat very often. And so it's like, I'm just trying to paint everything in the world at least once. You know what I mean? It's just seems what? I don't know where that part of my personality came from. So, yeah, I haven't found a home in the gallery world so much, and I tried early on, and I've quit trying because it would be useless to get into great galleries unless they really wanted to represent me. And we're excited about that, so I've kind of put that on the shelf. I'll be okay with that someday, if somebody comes to me and wants to represent right now I let just regional galleries represent me, and many of them would be laughable to my peers, but I've sold through those places just fine. And so there's not a whole lot of prestige maybe in some of them, but it's really fun. Like one lady that lives in the middle of nowhere, that's a potter and a sculptor. She, she has my work in her house, and she has groups of people that come, and she'll serve them a meal, and she'll walk them around the house and show them some of the paintings she has, and I've sold through there quite a bit, so that's really fun. Yeah, by the way, you need to look that lady up. Her name's Ingrid, and PBS did a special about her. They did a movie. It was, they have a show called Deep South, I think it is, or something like that, and they, but they did an episode called Ingrid, and it's about an hour and a half movie on her life. And it's so interesting. It's just terribly interesting. She's like a feminist dream, because she she even left her family at one point and just went to the middle of nowhere to become who she is. And, you know, she's very honest about those parts of her life, you know, and they're just beautiful. So, yeah, very good movie, yeah. So I'm honored to be associated with her, but it's not, it's not like it's not a prestigious gallery, I would say, you know, necessarily. So I guess it's just been getting to know my collectors has been the greatest marketing technique for me. I do enjoy people, and so, you know, going to plein air events, exposing myself to lots, lots of people seeing me outdoors, painting, doing, doing well at those events, so continuing to go and go and go, so that, you know, once in a while I'd win something or, you know, that's that's opened up a world of of collectors to me, and so those become your best followers. So you almost need to meet the people you know, and then then they see that they like things about you, and you connect through conversation. And then when they, when they start following you on Instagram and Facebook, they have, they already have that background with you, and so you'll get a lot of sales that way, you know. And so that's really exciting. When somebody that I met 12 years ago that's been following me all 12 years, you know, comes to me for a commission or or says, you know, it's been 10 years. Since I bought a painting from you, and now I want to buy one and you know, and so a lot of those will just pop out of the woodwork. There's other streams of income for for a self employed person, you know, and I know a lot of friends have started making prints and other ancillary products, but I avoid that, like I'm not interested in that at all. But I loved teaching, and so once I started finding teaching, there's all kinds of ways to make make little streams of income as a teacher. And you know, we're all becoming aware that I very quickly. I think it was Patrick akrasinski, or something like that. I was just, yeah, I was just on his Instagram page the other day and realized he's got this link tree with all kinds of opportunities that you can learn from him. And that's a probably smart way of doing it. I'm gonna let him have it, though, because I'm more into teaching regionally now, and I really love face to face teaching, and so I live in the most dry part of the United States for doing that kind of thing, and I can still make a pretty decent stream of income through that. So there's hope for anyone I would say
Brienne Brown: 36:16
one thing I did, I'm trying to remember when I did it? I don't remember, but I had started trying to sell, and I realized quickly I wasn't very good at selling art, because as an artist, we're taught, I mean, you're taught how to paint. You love what you do, you paint what you love. But actually trying to sell your work took something else and running a business took something else. So I took a community class on business running a small business, which was actually super helpful for me, because it helped me realize that I'm in the business of selling stuff. So yeah, I'm a businessman, right? I mean, yes, I'm an artist, but I'm also trying to sell my work. So that was super helpful. The other thing is just, I kept trying to practice at it. You know, when I go to shows, I go up and talk to people, and a lot of it is just coming down to talking about what you love, which is your work, right? And so the other thing that was key for me was that I finally realized it wasn't my job to get any everybody to like my work, because that's impossible, right? You're just not going to you can't do that, which is good, because so many people have different tastes. So many people like different things. They connect with different things. So my job was just to paint what really spoke to me, do the best I could, and then find the buyer that would connect with that, you know. And that just helped open up any kind of pressure of like, oh, what should I paint? What will sell, you know, and that kind of things. And it's, it's so tempting to go in that way and think, Oh, wait, what's going to sell? No, connect. Connect with what you're going to connect with. Paint what you love. And the buyer, you will find someone that will connect that, you know, you just gotta then find them. That's the hard part, right? Well, one hard part, and that's where the marketing comes in, and understanding your your your your market, so understanding, you know who you are actually trying to sell to, and that is a key thing. So I think the business side is something to learn as an artist,
Laura Arango Baier: 38:40
yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a really great point. And I really love that you mentioned, you know how it's very easy to try to fall into the trap of selling based based on the market, rather than vice versa, right, where, like, you build the market and then you sell. And that's a great point, because especially with, like, social media and, you know, people being easily influenced by what they see and other people's successes, it might, you know, pull them in the wrong direction. Yeah,
Brienne Brown: 39:08
right, exactly. And you you might be tempted, and you see someone else and you're comparing to them and thinking, Oh, well, I've got to do something like that when really just trying to be authentic to who you are, will be your best tool, because you have a unique voice. You have a unique thing to say, we all do, and the buyers or the patrons or whoever's looking at your art, they have their own experience, right? That they bring to something that they see. And that's what's great. It's that communication, right? It's just, we don't get to necessarily tell them what to think, but that's, that's good, that's okay, you know, that's what makes the art world wonderful, you know. And open,
Laura Arango Baier: 39:54
yeah, yeah. And honestly, it's very funny, because I think there are some people. Have a perspective that there's a lot of competition, and I'm inclined to disagree, because there's room for everyone, and there's room for every type of taste under the sun, basically. So I don't, I don't think it's competition. You know, that's like, if everyone is competing to be the best friend of everyone, exactly,
Brienne Brown: 40:20
and it's because we each we're going to connect with different people in different ways. And it's not, I think, whatever, I'm always excited when I go to these events. For example, some events I sell really well, and some events not as much, you know, but it's okay, like my friend might sell really well at one event, and I'm excited for them, because who want the art world to do well. So if anyone's buying art that's helping all of us, you know, it's not like, oh, that took away from mine. No, that buyer connected with that pain and they bought that painting. You know, I so I tend to think of it that way too. I think it's, it's a we help each other, and it's a positive world, not, oh, wait, you stole something from me. I don't think we need to do that, because there are so many people, right?
S.C. Mummert: 41:10
What happened to me about, I'll make it up here, because it's, it's, it's almost like I can't tell what a year is anymore, because a year goes by, for me, it feels like about 90 days or something. It's just, it's pretty odd, but so I'll just say, like four years ago, maybe five years ago, I I became disgusted with my own lack of understanding about marketing, and so I went ahead and put the brushes down for, I think, like, six weeks, which is quite a spell, and then began to just read everything I could and try to immerse myself into this and really get a better understanding on marketing, and which helped. All that was beneficial. Then I went ahead and found a couple of coaches. I, in fact, I'm still working with a guy out of Australia, and there's another guy out of I was, I was getting coached by two guys went over out of Australia, the other guy out of Atlanta, Georgia. And I'd have these weekly coaching sessions, you know, when they were helping me with marketing and and that transformed me also, because there's, it's very comprehensive, actually, and what happens when you begin to understand and get a better grip and dig into marketing. It actually helps you in the creation of your art. You wouldn't think it would necessarily, but what it begins to do, it helps you start to get a grip on your audience that you're creating the art for. And so, for example, like, we'll just use Nashville that maybe that's the center for country western music. We'll say those guys know exactly what their audience is, you know, I and when they craft a song for their audience, and they they're making a song that they enjoy, that they love making, but they also understand what their listeners and what their audience what will appeal to them. And so it's a win, win. And so what happens once you begin to understand marketing and maybe building an avatar, or the kind of person you're, in fact, trying to create your product for, and so forth. And I'm not saying make something that you don't like, that's not my point. But the very, the very best thing that can happen is that you find something that you enjoy making, and you find out it's also happens to be something that the audience is seeking. And so when you, when you, when you have that convergence, like that, which is happening in my own life, frankly, right now. So when that, when that happens, then you have the best of, best of everything, because it's all synergistic, you know, and so, but that a lot of that understanding with with marketing so forth, continues to affect almost everything that I do right now, including concepts for paintings and so forth. And you know that creative element that's it's a little mysterious even to me. You know that how you can kind of put all this together and and go to sleep and wake up in the morning. You've got an idea that maybe you didn't have when you went to sleep, and maybe your subconscious and work on that, whatever. I don't know. But the bottom line is that something pops out, but this marketing element actually influences that as well, you know, whatever you whatever pops out of, you know, and then that again, affects what you end up producing. And so as far as marketing, so what happens is this is, this is interesting, because marketing will always take time. Marketing will take time now the marketing the time could be you, besides some easels at the at a park with your work, and you're talking, you're interacting with people that may walk by in the park, and you're maybe, you're talking to them about, you know, them buying your art that's taking time, the time to set the easels up, to drive there, set your art up, and so forth, time. So there's all that investment of time. So that same little micro example of is can be applied to almost every. Thing you There's always time spent to end up being a success in art via via some marketing vehicle. And that vehicle can be the that thing in the park. It can also be a gallery. The gallery is simply a vehicle to market your art. A show can be a vehicle to market your art, and so on, so forth. So as long as we understand the vehicle and the price we're going to pay, whether it's time or a percentage that you give away of money rather than your time to stand there, you know, so forth, it's all picking a vehicle and what's going to be the most successful fit for you. Maybe it's time on Facebook, you know, maybe it's, you know, however that's done. Maybe it's social media like, you know, it's just finding the vehicle that fits your own pre elections. And you know what you feel is going to be your time spent best with your, you know, your personality. And that's all. That's all marketing. And in my particular instance, I work hand in glove with us, the galleries that I'm in, and we it's pretty remarkable, because it takes a very special gallery to work with me. I'll just, I'll just say that, and that's, that's no criticism against anybody else. It's It's just what I what we have. Part of the reason why I have, I would say I would assign my success to, is that I have galleries that I can take and give concepts to. And they will spend the time to take these concepts and maybe I'll give them maybe eight concepts. I'll pick the number eight, and I'll say, well, here, these are concepts that I've come up with. What do you think about that? And what they'll do is they'll actually take their high net or ultra high net worth clientele that they have this relationship with, that I don't have, that they've gone ahead and fostered and poured themselves into, but they'll take the initiative to go ahead and run those concepts past their clientele. And then the clientele will say, Well, I think these I don't like because I like them all. But that doesn't mean that the clients will the people with the money. And so they'll go ahead and say, well, here I these. And maybe they'll pick three or four out of the eight that are winners. And so then I'll go ahead and produce the three or four paintings, we'll say, and I know you'll be shocked to hear they're selling before they're off the easel, in many cases, because they're virtually pre sold. In fact, I had there's a national show here in the west coast that wanted me in the show, and a guy got a hold of me on behalf of the the guy running the show, and he said, Well, here we we just want a painting. He's Mummer. He says, I don't care what it is, we just want one of your paintings in the show. And I said, Well, gosh, that's flattering. I said, I don't have anything. And he said, Come on, every artist has got paintings hanging around their studio. I said, dude. I said, I don't I said, Come on over here's a local guy that called me. And he said, No. I said his name was Mark. I said, Mark, come over to the studio. You find a painting you can put in the show. I said, I'm wiped out. The only painting I have is on the easel. Now that's a any he said, really? I said, Mark, yes, I, you know. And I said, if it wasn't that way, something's wrong, you know, because, because I want, I want, that's the level of success that I hope for, you know, and so, and the good news is that I'm, I'm very blessed that that's been happening that way. And but I'm trying to give you kind of a glimpse behind the scenes of the mechanics that so there's this marketing stuff that's affecting the way that I create the concepts. And I get feedback from my galleries as well. They'll tell me, well, they don't like this, and this is why they didn't like it, but they'd like this, and this is why they like that, and so forth. So I'm getting all this live feedback, and I feel that all success is based on a all progress. I'll just say it this way, all progress is based on a on a feedback loop, on an accurate feedback loop. So if you so, I couldn't even walk to my car, if I did, if I close my eyes, which are my feedback loop? If I if, if I try to walk to my car, maybe my hands become my feedback loop, or a stick, you know, and I can try and find my way to my car, but it's all based on feedback, and that's critical to an artist, because what happens if we don't have feedback, if we and that could be, that could be feedback from someone standing at at their easels in the park, and people are and they're talking, then they're interacting, And they'll say, Well, gee, you know, I like this landscape here, but I don't like the dog you painted here. Well, why not, you know, and then you can start to get this feedback. So that's all that will all benefit you. And maybe sometimes we don't like hearing that, but I think it's all beneficial. I think even the bad stuff will help us, you know, be we can go, Well, I. Don't think I'm going to do that again. We can, we can learn. But it's all based on this, on this feedback. And my galleries are very, very efficient and very good at doing it with me. And not every gallery is prepared to do that. There was a gallery I was up in Carmel, California, which is an amazing small town. You have you been there? So good things. It's amazing. And it's just as high net worth, we'll just say, very charming town that has, last time I was up there, they had 82 galleries in this little, small area. So it's just mind blowing. And so I poked my head in. I was actually asking marketing questions to one of the sales guys in this large gallery up there. And they said, well, here just and so he introduced me to the owner, I thought. And I said, Listen, I'm an artist. I don't want to take your time, you know, if you're busy, please, you know, I'll let you go. Oh, no, no. And so they wanted to talk to me. And so then, well, what? You're an artist, let me see your art. And so the easiest thing these days is to whip your phone out, you know, and you can show somebody to picture your art. Well, the next thing I know, they've got the other owner in, and they've got me back in a room, and they want to carry my art, you know. And which, I mean, wow, that's very flattering. I appreciate that. And so we're talking about percentages and all that stuff, you know. Okay, well, we'll see. Well, as it turned out, the reason why I bring that up, as it turned out, they were not prepared. They said, what they said? They said, Listen, you make 10 paintings, and then we'll pick six out of the 10 that we like, and we'll take the six. And I thought, well, if I do 10 paintings, I want all 10 to sell. I don't want to just have four back in my studio, right? And so, and I said, Well, you know, I need okay, because every region and market is different. So Carmel will have a different market than Santa Fe New Mexico. And Santa Fe New Mexico will have a different market than downtown New York City. You know, so important. And so you ideally, you're creating just like the Nashville with the country western, you know, you're creating product that's going to be a success in that market. And they weren't willing to spend the time to give me the feedback to be a success. I felt, you know, in their market. And I understand that I'm not here to criticize, that it's just that I I'm looking for a gallery, and actually, in fact, I'm fortunate to work with galleries that will invest that time, and it's been very successful for both of us. Frankly, that makes sense. Yes,
Laura Arango Baier: 52:33
it does. And it's so funny that you mentioned, you know, that you give the gallery like your list of ideas, and then they test those, right? That's essentially what with a lot of product marketing, is they get test groups right, to test out a product and how it's the colors on it, the flavor, the everything, that's basically what, what you did,
S.C. Mummert: 52:56
right? Yeah, and it's, it's, it's been powerful, frankly, you know. And again, you know, we'll get, we'll get collectors that'll take and they'll say, Well, I, you know, they'll, they'll see the progress. I'll actually take some progress shots and send them to my gallery. And the gallery will go ahead, we'll just for galleries. We'll go ahead and show the progress shots along the way. And then someone will say, Well, I know I want that, you know. And here's not done, and makes it nice, you know, because you're not, it's not sitting on the wall for two years, you know. And you're kind of going, Oh, why is that thing still there? So it's been very wonderful, and it helps the cash flow too. And I'm going to dovetail that into something else too, because I don't, I tend not to do shows. And the reason, and I have, I've been very, very, I mean, it's, it's been very blessed to take and have shows contact me, to want me to be in the shows. And I always tell them, I I'm so humbled that you even think of me. I appreciate that, you know, but, but I tell them, you know, I don't think I'm going to do that, because, again, a show is a vehicle, and so it happens. So if the show is going to go ahead and sell my art, well then I have to go ahead and sandbag the art. I've got to go. I can't just have this constant cash flow. Do a do a painting, sell it. Do a painting, sell it. Do a painting, sell it. Now it's do a painting, park it, do a painting, park it. Do a painting, park it, and add and collect inventory so that I can finally go ahead and, oh, the deadline for the show is coming up. Yay. I've got three to five paintings. I crate those babies up and I ship them. Hope nobody puts a forklift throw them on the way, you know, to the to the show, which happens. And, and I've had art damage from shipping to a show, and then, and then I had one show that just wouldn't give up on me. And I'm talking to one of them, and, and this, this very sweet girl, and she said, Listen, we want you in the show. We want this. And then finally, so I said. Um, this is what I can send you. We'll keep talking. Appreciate that. I I'm sorry I'm bit busy, but let's do this. We can, we can do this. And she said, Okay, now we'll need you there the night of the opening. We'll need you this one and all these stipulations. I said, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. So what you're saying is I have to go ahead and pay airfare, hotel, rental car, you know, food, all you know, not paint. You know, I'm not at my easel, so I'm not productive while I'm doing all this. So I can take advantage of your marketing vehicle, right? And and so the good news for me is that I've got a very successful profile in place right now where I'm just going. You know, I appreciate you guys. You're wonderful. I thank you for even being interested in me. I think I'm going to pass for now. Maybe that'll change next year, but I think I've got to stick with what I'm doing, and I'm just trying to be very gracious, because it's just, it's wonderful that they even think of me. I that's what I feel. Yeah.
