Brian Bateman — Be Tenacious!

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For today's episode we sat down with Brian Bateman, a historical artist who specializes in aviation and Western art, focusing on bringing past events to life through meticulously researched and detailed paintings. He discovered his passion for art in fifth grade and has since dedicated his career to capturing historical moments with precision and emotional depth. Throughout his journey, Bateman emphasizes the importance of mastering fundamental artistic skills, being tenacious, and staying open to learning and criticism. He works between the aviation and Western art genres to maintain financial stability, highlighting the challenges artists face in marketing and selling their work. Bateman stresses the significance of finding a subject matter one is truly passionate about and developing a unique artistic style that reflects personal experiences and emotions. He discusses the role of social media, galleries, and networking in promoting art, while also sharing insights into his creative process, which involves spontaneity and avoiding over-refinement. Finally, Brian tells us about his upcoming shows with Settler's West Gallery and The Coeur D'Alene Miniature Show and his hopes to have a workshop in the near future!

Brian's FASO site:
https://www.brianbatemanartstudios.com/

Brian's social media:
https://www.instagram.com/batemanartstudios/#
https://www.facebook.com/brian.bateman.161

Brian's upcoming shows:
https://www.cdagalleries.com/events.html
https://www.settlerswest.com/exhibitions

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Transcript:

Brian Bateman 00:00

An artist has to be tenacious. An artist has to be like a little chihuahua or pit bull that just grabs onto the ankle and will not let go and just just nip. You have to be tenacious. You're going to have people that that tell you that your work is not up to par, that you aren't good enough, that you lack this or that, or go to a workshop or and that's all good to hear. You have to hear that, because if you don't hear that, you're not going to learn anything. You have to be willing to take criticism. And as much as it would sting, especially when you're younger, and it will sting, you have to learn to take it because in that criticism could be the key that you're looking for.

Laura Arango Baier 00:54

Welcome to the Bold Brush show where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists in all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Brian Bateman, an historical artist who specializes in aviation and Western art, focusing on bringing past events to life through meticulously researched and detailed paintings. He discovered his passion for art in fifth grade, and has since dedicated his career to capturing historical moments with precision and emotional depth throughout his journey, Brian emphasizes the importance of mastering fundamental artistic skills, being tenacious and staying open to learning and criticism. He works between the aviation and Western art genres to maintain financial stability, highlighting the challenges artists face in marketing and selling their work. Brian stresses the significance of finding a subject matter one is truly passionate about and developing a unique artistic style that reflects personal experiences and emotions. He discusses the role of social media galleries and networking and promoting art, while also sharing insights into his creative process, which involves spontaneity and avoiding over refinement. Finally, Brian tells us about his upcoming shows with settlers West Gallery and the curd lad miniature show, and his hopes to have a workshop in the near future. Welcome Brian to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?

Brian Bateman 01:50

Thank you, Laura. How are you?

Laura Arango Baier 01:52

I'm doing great. I'm really excited to have you because we were discussing this. But you are a painter of historic scenes, which I think is, yes, it's so unique, it's so beautiful. And especially you know, your your paintings of airplanes and machines. Of course, I love your western paintings as well. But you know, personally, since I do come from a family of pilots and family who loves, you know, old images of old airplanes, like it is beautiful to see someone who represents them and has work, you know, hanging in an aviation museum as well, which is really cool. But before we dive into all of those delicious, beautiful paintings of yours, do you mind telling us a bit more about who you are and what you do?

Brian Bateman 03:10

Well, my name is Brian Bateman, and I am a historical artist. Is what I like to call myself. I love to bring the past to the present. And I think for me, my job, if you want to tell that, is that I bring those images to life from what has happened in the past. And so I am a very detailed historical artist, I enjoy the digging into and simplifying the process of what ends up at the back end, but you have to be historically correct to make sure that you capture the viewer's attention. And there are those out there who are very into history, and I call them rivet counters, and they'll know, Oh, you did you let this offer? You let that offer? You didn't do that. So you got to be very cognizant when you do that, because they're out there. So that's very interesting. That's what I do, in a nutshell. I enjoy what I do, and I'm pleased to be here and talk about that.

Laura Arango Baier 04:23

Yeah, yeah. And again, like I said, I'm very excited, because, you know, from what you just mentioned, it does seem kind of like what you do is just so deeply researched, right? Because you have to, like you said, you're going to have people who maybe lived through those moments, who observed it, who can tell you like, Hey, you're missing this. Or you have people who are, you know, hobbyists, or actual historians, who might, you know, tell you like, oh, well, um, it's great, but it might be missing this other thing, right? Oh, it's, it's so amazing, though, because the intellectual aspect of it. Is also really fun, you know, the research, buying books, or looking at documentaries, or all of that. I think it adds another layer of complexity to the creation of those paintings.

Brian Bateman 05:10

It does. And what is very nice for me is that I was able to meet a lot of these pilots who flew a lot of these missions that I depicting, and so I'm talking to history, and I'm showing this that, and the other end, though, it wasn't that way, or we were this way, or we were that way. I had one pilot who knew the cloud cover from 70 years ago. So a lot of them don't recognize or remember what the paint schemes were, but they remember the mission itself, or the or the shoot down, or whatever. So I've been very lucky to be have been able to to talk to them, to be friends with them. And a lot of them are missed because they have long since passed. So I was in that window for 20 years where I got to have to be with these, these men and women. It was very, very enlightening for me. It was great,

Laura Arango Baier 06:17

yeah, because, as you know, since you are depicting images of history, it's always best to go directly to the source, right, the people who lived in it and who experienced it. And I absolutely love the cloud cover thing, because, like, even, like, my dad's a pilot, and he'll sometimes also talk about, like, Oh yeah, you know, this is the way that the sun was hitting. Or, like, sometimes, you know, he'll like, remember very specific parts of like, his flights, even if it's been many, many years, yeah, because it is something that pilots look out for and for them to even be able to inform you of the actual surroundings that is so useful and informative for the work. Because every day is different. The clouds are always different. And for specific historic moments, it's like, well, it's best to be as accurate to the moment as possible.

Brian Bateman 07:08

So that's amazing, yeah that's true and but on the other hand, like I mentioned earlier, there's some things they can't remember. It's been 70 or 80 years, so that's where the artistic license comes in. Yeah. And you have to, you have to be as correct as you can with the research and learning what you have to depict an opinion. So that's, that's always fun, too. It's a lot of work. It's not just putting it down on campus. You've got a lot of research before you put it down on campus.

Laura Arango Baier 07:41

So, yeah, yeah. And that also brings to mind because a lot of the airplanes that you paint are up in the air. They're already, you know, in like, the ones that I saw, they're up in the air. They're doing their thing. And I think the complex part of that is also getting the perspective correct, you know, like the whole image has to make sense, as if the viewer is up there observing the whole city.

Brian Bateman 08:04

Yes, ma'am. And there's, you know, there's something called descriptive geometry that we use, that we have to figure out the picture plane and where the aircraft is off the ground and the distance to the viewer, you know, kind of like a perspective. And you have to get that correct too. So that is very interesting. And that is pretty darn close to what it would look like from that set angle, distance. And it's pretty it's pretty interesting to do. That's my least favorite part, is descriptive geometry, because I'm not a math guy, but it has to, it has to be correct. So, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier 08:45

yeah. How does someone even learn descriptive geometry? Is there like a book?

Brian Bateman 08:51

Well, funny. You should mention that I didn't mean nothing of that until I joined the American Society of aviation artists and Keith Ferris, who is one of the mentors that we'll talk about later, Keith is isn't is a is a math guy, and he and the members there on the board will teach you how to do that. So there, there are, there. It's interesting. Once you get it, you understand it, but, boy, until then, you know I'm Polish, so I'm trying to figure out what's going on here. And it takes. It took me a while, but after a while, you finally, finally figured it out. So do

Laura Arango Baier 09:33

you find that you can use it for other situations when you're painting, or is it mostly just for like the aircraft? You

Brian Bateman 09:39

absolutely could, absolutely could use it for other situations, but I tend to go back to normal perspective and the other paintings on the ground, I found that's more accurate for me, doesn't mean but for others, they could, sure, probably use it. But for the aerial i. It's best for descriptive geometry.

Laura Arango Baier 10:03

That’s awesome. That is so cool. I'm also just imagining if someone out there who wants to paint a dragon or something, it might be a little bit useful. Yeah,

Brian Bateman 10:11

well, I think if you, yeah, if you've got an image from you got the front the side and the top, you can do it, but you have to have all three images of that so you because you're projecting that onto your campus, right?

Laura Arango Baier 10:26

That is so cool, the more you know. And actually I do, I want to go a little bit further in the past of your life, because I know that you studied illustration, and I'm really curious also to know, when did you begin to follow the path of the artist.

Brian Bateman 10:43

Wow, follow the path of the artist. Jeez, I would imagine that I follow the path of the artist. When I was about eight years old, baby, I really started to get into aviation when I was in fifth grade. I had a best friend, and he would come in and he would draw the model box covers. And I thought, wow, that is, that's very cool. And so I started doing it, I've never looked back. I have never looked back. So I would, I would say, fifth grade. I really caught the bug at fifth grade. Then I was in into the Civil War for a while, and then I started getting into different historical events, World War One, World War Two, Korea. And so from there, it just, it just became a part of me. It is who I am. I love history, and my genre is history. I do paint and draw other things to to break the monotony of that, but I find that I keep gravitating back towards that because that's what I love to do. And you have to love, you have to have a passion. I I'm going to use that word a lot. You have to have a passion for your subject. You don't have a passion for your subject, you may get lost with all the all the things that you're going to do, you have to pick a direction and go with it, because you want collectors and you want others out there to know you for a certain thing. And if you do a certain thing, they're going to recognize you, and they're going to stick with you, and they're going to, they're going to, they may buy your work. And that's the general goal of what we do in the end, is for them to purchase our work so we can live another day.

Laura Arango Baier 12:36

So yeah, yeah. And, you know, making sure that the thing that you are doing is something you love, like you said. It isn't like, let me pick a thing out of a bag. It's more like, this is the thing that I love, and I really want to nurture it. And how can I nurture it more and give it more of that love so that others recognize that? Because I think oftentimes, some people might get caught up in the searching for it before you know, or, sorry, vice versa. Or like, they, instead of searching for it, they jump into just picking a random thing and being like, Oh, well, this is going to be my thing. Now, without realizing that that takes away a lot of the those, like ethereal sort of qualities of paintings can have. Sometimes of like, when, when you know that the artist really loves what they're painting or how they're painting it like it shows, it naturally shows.

Brian Bateman 13:27

yeah, and there's a danger of picking a subject that you I'm just going to paint this, and then you get known for it, become known for it, and then you can kind of get trapped. So I guess my point is, with everything out there, pick your genre, pick the subject that you love and have a passion for, because you could get pigeonhole doing something you don't want to really do if you do become successful. So it's very important to have that passion, to find that genre, to find that that niche that you that you love to do. I think that's a lot of a game right there. You have to have the passion

Laura Arango Baier 14:13

for sure, for sure. And I mean, if you're going to do something you don't like, then you might as well get an office job,

Brian Bateman 14:22

yeah, and I've had those,

Laura Arango Baier 14:26

yeah, yeah. I think many of us have had to do it as well. You know, there's nothing wrong

Brian Bateman 14:32

with it. There's Yeah, you have to, you have to do it. You have

Laura Arango Baier 14:36

Yeah, yeah. You have to have that income coming in so that your work can you can focus on on your paintings without any worry, unless you're lucky enough to be able to dive into it. But, but, yeah, most of us aren't.

Brian Bateman 14:49

Most of us aren't lucky enough to just dive into it and make it. There's a few out there that can and do and have, but for most of us, you got to pay your due.

Laura Arango Baier 14:59

Oh yeah, yeah. And that's fine too. I think it also makes it fulfilling,

Brian Bateman 15:04

yeah. And it's all part of who we are, of who we become. It's all part of our our journey, and that's what makes us artists, and so we can all come together and share what we have been through. And it's also similar, no matter what genre you pick, there's always the struggle. There's always the frustration. You know, it we all share that. It doesn't matter who we are, what we do. We all share that. And so that's what, you know, I like to get that across, because we've all been there. I've been there. People behind me are going to go through it, so it's all part of what we are and part of our journey.

Laura Arango Baier 15:54

Yeah, yeah. And it's a great point, because that's one of the reasons we have this podcast, of course. And then also, I really love, you know, reminding myself sometimes that the people that I admire who are painters or were painters in the past, because, you know, they've passed away, they were in my shoes at one point, struggling with the same exact things. I mean, Da Vinci didn't, he wasn't born knowing how to paint perfectly. He had to start from zero, like everyone else, sure, he may have had a talent for it, and it was easier for him in some ways, but at the same time, he still had to go through these little rites of passage. We can call them that, that all artists go through in their career.

Brian Bateman 16:37

Run, band, ran, go, no matter who your favorite master? They all went through similar journeys, and most of them didn't get popular until they passed away centuries later. So you know you don't want that to happen to you, but you know it could, but you just, you have to block all that out and just do you and do your best work.

Laura Arango Baier 17:02

Yeah, yeah. And, of course, you know, people like Van Gogh weren't around in such an a wonderful time of opportunity, which is the age of information that we're in right now. Right we have the internet. It's almost impossible to not get seen by just one other person who love your work thanks to the internet, right? So I think taking advantage of that and and in our time is so important as well. But of course, we'll discuss social media and the internet a little bit later, right now, actually, speaking of you know past painters and maybe even contemporary painters, friends of yours, who would you say have been some of your most influential painters who have inspired you in your life,

Brian Bateman 17:48

from the past to present, both? Okay, let's start with the past. Yes, Renoir Degas, some of my favorite masters, my contemporaries in the aviation art world. My contemporaries would be Keith Ferris and Bill Phillips. Some of these names that that, for those who are in aviation, know these artists. But those who don't look them up, they're impressive. For the Western artists, I'm really into Bill Anton and geez, Zs Liang, he's a Chinese painter, and I really, really did the Chinese painters, the Chinese painters know how to paint. And the Russian painters, the Russian painters are, are they are fantastic they, I don't know how they get to where they end up on a canvas, but, boy, they're just repetitive. Practice, practice, practice, brow beating, whatever it takes. They've got it. And so other contemporaries, Matt Smith, who's a landscape painter, was absolutely fantastic. Howard Turkmen, I don't know if you've heard that name, but he's absolutely fantastic. He's still with us. He's like 93 or four. Look at his body of work for the Native American and Western art, just fantastic work. And he did like movie posters, like Gone with the wind and other types of posters like that. So illustrators, gosh, I loved Mark English, Bernie Fuchs, these guys, art Forbes. These guys, back in the day of illustration, were, were the bees knees. I guess you would call them, because they were busy and and everything was was illustrated before stock photography came in. I'm now. Enough to know and see the progression of over time, of what has happened, where illustration used to be the medium of choice to communicate, and now it's stock photography or stock photos or stock illustration, which is fine, but you know, again, I was lucky enough to to be a part of and learn from these great illustrators, and that that still carries over into my work, especially lately, in the direction that I'm going, I have realized that I have to paint my way And for a long time, you try to figure out your style, and you try to figure out who you are, and you look at your contemporaries and well, you know, I can't paint like that, or I can't paint like that. Block that out of your head. Don't paint like that. You have to paint the way you paint. You can learn from them. You can observe, you can watch, you can watch videos. But in the end, you have to do your thing, and if you don't do your thing, you could get lost. And you don't want to get lost. You want to stay focused.

Laura Arango Baier 21:22

Yeah, it's very important to not get because, again, how I said earlier, we're in the age of information, wonderful, double edged sword, right? We don't want to get bogged down by too much information. There's so much about you know, you have to kind of funnel it, you have to limit it, because it's so easy to get enamored and inspired by other artists in their work. But maybe it's not a new genre. Maybe it's not anywhere near the type of work you even make. Maybe their palette is entirely different, right? And it's it's easy to get to trick yourself into thinking, Oh, maybe this is what I should do. No No. Calm down, sit down. Give it a big think. Yeah, funnel. Just limit, limit, limit. Because, like you said, you know, it might drown out your own voice. And then suddenly, instead of you being known for you, where people see your work and say, Oh, that's, that's a Brian Bateman, right? They might say, like, it kind of looks like a student of so and so instead, right? Or it looks like so and so, yeah, and that, yeah.

Brian Bateman 22:24

yeah. You have to be careful. You can, you know, as you come up through the ranks, you emulate other artists that you admire, and you want to paint like them for a while. To learn it's okay to do that. It's okay to take a, take a red wall and paint like that for a while, or take an Anton Western art or Matt Smith and paint like that for a while, because you're learning different things about how they go about it. But in the end, you have to do your thing. You have to, like you said, take all that information and funnel it and do what's best for you. You can take all the workshops you want in the world. You can watch all the videos you want to in the end, you have to funnel it out and do what's best for you, what works for you. There's different ways of attacking a canvas. There's different ways of painting, as long as the end result is professional and looks the way you want it to look, and you're proud of it and you learn from it, that's all you need to do. But that's not that's easier said than done, because I will still have noise in my head that I have to get that out of there and do what I should be doing. And my style now has become much more loose. It's much more splatter. It's much more free. I got a painting that I did called resolution that is very, very loosely based at splatter and kind of building up from thin to thick, like we all should do, but I I do a lot of thinner paint now, because I'm getting this Very cool effect, I'm always experimenting. You don't want to get stagnant. You want to keep pushing and learning and growing and experimenting. Use a rag. Wipe it off, put some thinner on there and see what it does. Put a medium or something on there to see what happens, and just enjoy the process. Enjoy what you're doing now. In the end, we're supposed to make a living at it, and hopefully we do. It's cyclical. You know, bless my wife, you know, she, she, she puts up with a lot like any other. Uh, artist, uh, significant other has to have that certain mindset to put up with that, because that's not easy to put up with sometimes, you know, get the highs and lows. You get a big paycheck, and then you don't get something for a month or two or three, and, you know, you've got to budget yourself the one of the smartest things that one of my contemporaries told me, Bill Anton, when I visited his studio, is after I got over the shock of being invited into his studio and looking at his work, which was absolutely just phenomenal. And he he was very gracious, he was very kind, and he sat me down, and my wife was there. He sat us both down, and he told us, never live beyond your means. And I'm looking at his work, and he's, you know, 120,000 a painting away. He just, you know, doing grip. Oh, Bill's doing well, but Bill has worked his butt off a long time to get to where he is and but that always stuck with me. Never live beyond your means, because you don't know what's going to happen in the artwork. You could be popular, as I'll get out for a year or two or three, and then you can't find work, or nobody will buy you, buy your word. And so that resonated with me that no matter who you are, how big you get, and there's some of them that are out there, very, very prosperous and very, very big in the art world, you have to be careful, because it could all go away. And I'm not trying to be negative, but you have to be kind of realistic, and that's why I believe in experimentation and kind of reinventing yourself and kind of keeping things fresh, and kind of keeping things driven within your mind, attack it.

Laura Arango Baier 27:06

Yeah, that's amazing, and it's so true, because this is one of those careers that, like you mentioned, you know, it's important to have that support, you know, having, if you have a partner with you, that they're supportive, that they understand this is something that has highs and lows, like you said, has like my mom calls fat cow times and lean cow times for plenty for some times, and then you won't have much for other times. And that's so key. But yeah, living below your means very, very, very important, because it is easy to get excited, like, oh, wow, I'm sending a bunch of paintings. Yep. Pause, calm down. Yep, yeah, yes. Because again, you know, I have heard other artists also mention, like, they might have a really exciting show happening, but then it gets overshadowed by some historic thing, whether it's suddenly, you know, there are fires in California and, oh, no, people can't buy paintings right now because they're tied up in. My house might burn down, or, I don't know, there's a flood somewhere nearby, and then suddenly people can't make it to your show, right?

Brian Bateman 28:18

There's, there are factors outside that we cannot control, extenuating circumstances that you cannot write, you cannot count on the sale of that painting. You can't, you hope, but you can't count on it exactly. I've had paintings that I've sent up where I thought, well, fish can sell. I like this one. I'm confident about this one that it doesn't sell. And I've got one, it's like, well, I like it. It's up to my standards. But you know, like, I don't know. I don't I don't know what in itself. You don't know what the collector is looking for. You don't know if you have touched something in the buyer, or your style has touched something in the buyer, that makes it an impulse buy. Because a lot of it's an impulse buy. Art is a commodity, and so once you put that out there, and you're with a many, many talented artists, and I find myself flattered every single time that somebody buys my my painting, because it's with these other beautiful, wonderful pieces of art that I'm lucky enough to be included With. And it it'll sell. It's fantastic. It's great. So you know, there's a lot of lot of gratuity to to the to the collector, and to the gallery and or even being able to be with these other artists who I admire you. I think a lot of what I see out there in the in the especially the western art world, because I had, I had to cross over into that to make a to make ends meet more because the aviation art, the pilots have died off the wall space has gone away. And that's another subject that we probably should talk about, is wall space, because we can talk about that a little bit later. But, you know, it's wonderful to be able to get into a prestigious gallery. It really is you. I fought for seven years to get into one. Seven years. Every once in a while I would send the piece. How's this? Not quite yet? Brian, okay, you know, the next year some new work. I don't think so okay. There for a couple years, I just said, wow, yeah, I'm just not gonna I'm just gonna wait. I'm gonna try and get better. I don't know what they're looking for, but I'll keep experimenting, keep doing things. Finally, I sent a couple of pieces out. He looked at it. He goes, we'll take that. That's nice. Merry Christmas. I said, Okay, perfect, you know. So I think another thing that we need to talk about is tenacity. You and I mentioned tenacity when we were talking earlier. An artist has to be tenacious. An artist has to be like a little chihuahua or pit bull that just grabs onto the ankle and will not let go and just just nip. Do you like this? Do you like this? You remember the cartoon like Butch and spike with a with a with a gallery is just like Butch and it spikes the little or spike? Which one is it, I think, spikes that whatever it is, the little dog just keeps, shut up, and then, you know, he'd smack him. It's kind of what the galleries kind of do at times, in a nice way. This is just, you know, just a different take on it from my deranged sense of humor. But, but it you have to be tenacious. You're going to have people that that tell you that your work is not up to par, that you aren't good enough, that you lack this or that, or go to a workshop or and that's all good to hear. You have to hear that, because if you don't hear that, you're not going to learn anything. You have to be willing to take criticism, and as much as it would sting, especially when you're younger, and it will sting, you have to learn to take it, because in that criticism could be the key that you're looking for so tenacity taking criticism. That's what I live by.

Laura Arango Baier 33:14

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I you know what you just said about taking criticism, I think you know that really reminds me of how oftentimes we become too attached to our own suffering. And this sounds really crazy, we become very attached to our own suffering, and then when someone gives us a criticism we need to hear that tells us, like you said, that little nugget, that little nugget that really kicks us in the shin and says, wake up. And it hurts us. It is because we are maybe attached to that mistake or that suffering that we're, you're giving to ourselves, which is why it's so important to really just always be and like you said, you know, be in that state of, I can, I can hear this and not get hurt by it, because I'm always learning right? Like you mentioned this to me before, that you were just a forever learner, and I think that's the right mentality to have, because you can only ever learn if you're open to it, right, if you're closed off, and you think I already know everything, how could you ever improve? You know?

Brian Bateman 34:18

Well, there was a point, a point in my life, when I was younger, where I was right there. I knew everything. I knew I needed to improve. But somebody would tell me, Well, this painting needs so you need to rework this and read it. No, I'm done. I'm done with it, but and then I'll look back at it after, you know, 10 or 20 years, I was like, Oh God, you know, I I need to redo this. You know, I wouldn't make any changes on it. What helped me was to realize that I do need to make a change upon a painting. If it's done, it's never done, it's done. When, when you say it's done, it's done when you have reached the, the level that that, that you you know you can't go into the bar, and it's sometimes it's done when you have to send it to a gallery. You've got a deadline. I could, I could keep painting on something for years, but you can't, because you have to go to it. Has to go to the gallery, or it has to go to the sale of the collector, and you gotta let it go. Well, the ones that haven't sold, oh, I'll still pick up and I'll still fix that, or I'll adjust the tone on that, or, or I'll just redo it. I've redone one three times. You have to get to that point professionally where it's okay to redo something and don't be set that you have to stick with what you just did, because you could learn a couple of weeks or months or years from now, and if it still has a sold rework it, and it could sell. And that's happened to me a couple of times. We work it in its own so you've got to stay flexible. You've got you cannot be rigid.

Laura Arango Baier 36:14

That is so important, yes, because, I mean, we have to keep in mind that every painting like you said, it's never finished. It's just a process and and something that's just, you know, just as we are incomplete as people in life, because we haven't experienced everything, and we never will really like the job is never over. So the painting is a reflection of that. It is a moment in time of the person you were, and you're reflecting that on the canvas. And then as time goes on, you maybe experience more. And then if you want to revisit that painting, you have more experience that you can pour into it, that could improve it, right? But like you said, it's never finished, because we're never finished.

Brian Bateman 36:57

No, you know, it's a reflection of us, and artists are very emotional, yeah? And I think the best part of what we do is, if we can capture that emotion and put it into our work, the viewer will see that. They'll recognize that I've had a lot of comments where they would write after the sale and said, it's a very emotional piece. It's a very emotive piece. It's a very something captures it that they buy, which is fantastic. That's that's the goal of every artist, but you've got to put something of yourself in that work. You can't at this stage in my life, you have to, you have to put in what you're thinking and feeling at the time. Earlier in my career, you would, you would learn from copying, and you would learn from being rigid. And, you know, I want to do a digger, or I want to do it, and I've done all that, and I've learned from every single one of those, but you can't, you can't crib somebody's work. It's just, it's not something you can't do, but you can learn from doing again. I'm not recommending doing that, but I recommend that you can take somebody's art and emulate it to learn what they did, break it down and then go back and do your thing. So it's all very, very, very important to learn and to get some gears under your belt and share at least what I've learned in my 60, almost 64 years, and I've had a lot of great teachers. I've had a ton of great teachers. I don't think that there's an artist out there that has not had a successful teacher or two. I had a teacher in high school, which I'll never forget, Mr. Bishop, and I had a teacher in college, Mr. McGuire, those people resonate with you the rest of your life, and I can't describe how or why, but they become a part of you. And as you get older, you hear their voices mark or what they said or how they reacted, and it does get in the back of your subliminal mind that they're still there. They're still talking to you. I think that that is the most important thing that a young artist could do now, is to find that teacher that not only teaches them, but drives them and forces them to do things over and make themselves better. Learn come. Learn tone, learn perspective, learn drawing, learn the basics. Because without that, yeah, there's some, there's some artists out there that can do that and get away with it and sell work and make a good living. But I'm not one of those, and most of us aren't. We have to learn the basics and then break out and do your own thing.

Laura Arango Baier 40:27

Absolutely, if you've been enjoying the podcast and also want to be able to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly BoldBrush live webinars, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories and answer your burning questions in real time, whether you're a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn and spark new ideas, and whether you're stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don't miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next BoldBrush Live Webinar is coming up on April 24 with our special guest, Mark lague. The sign up link is in the show notes at BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art, marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free @boldbrushshow.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com/podcast, you can make that come true, and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year. Then start now by going to our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast, that's FASO.com/podcast, absolutely and everything you just mentioned, you know, it reminds me so much of music, because musicians have to, well, they don't have to, but they learn from the basics. They learn the scales, right? No matter what instrument it is, whether it's your piano violin, you learn by imitating, right? So you might play some, some really complicated Mozart pieces, or some very basic, you know, other other piano pieces, or any, basically, you learn by copy, and then when you want to, you know, get into composition, that's when you need to break down the things that you've already learned. You use them and you remix it into your own thing. So it's funny how sometimes with painting, people seem to forget the importance of the basics. In that sense, like, you know, I'm pretty sure no matter what, every single pianist out there still plays their scales every so often.

Brian Bateman 43:46

You have to, I will go back and review your perspective. I will go back and review my basic drawing skills. Teaching helps me to go back to those basic drawing skills I goals. So I would recommend, you know, I'd recommend teaching too, because for those of you who have taught that really, really helps you get back to core basis, because you're, you're trying to teach that again to your students, and in teaching that to your students, you're re teaching that to yourself, and then you're also learning to communicate, which sometimes my wife says, I have a problem doing. So if you learn to communicate better and get it across to to the student, and you have that aha moment, or they have that aha moment. It makes you feel good you've you've got to cross to them and that, that's very cool. But back to the core. That helps with the core, at least for me to revisit that.

Laura Arango Baier 44:53

Yeah, yeah. It's very, very easy to, over time, become too gratuitous. With the knowledge you already have, right? You think, oh, yeah, I already know that. Do you? Do you? I mean, never, yeah, there's always something.

Brian Bateman 45:10

And I like your, I like your analogy of a musician, because I use that a lot. We're the same really, yeah, and we're in the arts and entertainment business, there's a parallel between the music industry and artists, I think. And you mentioned that very, very, very clearly, very nicely, and I do use that analogy once in a while. Well, we're just like musicians, are we? But yeah, we are, I think, because of the basics, because of the things that you mentioned. So it's a small world. We're all interconnected,

Laura Arango Baier 45:50

yes, and we all have the same basic ability of creation. We create that is like that is, in my opinion, is one of the unique things about humans, is our main skill, in general, across the board, is creation. So it would make sense that in every you know, different way that we create, there's still very similar process. Yeah, basics, revisit. Basics, go into the complex stuff, but it still needs that foundation, right? It's, it's so important. As you know, you've mentioned.

Brian Bateman 46:29

Yeah, I cannot strive for the importance of the foundation. Knowing to draw, learning to draw, staying with drawing, even though you know how to draw later in life. Keep drawing. When I step away from drawing for a little bit and then try to draw it again at your eye. It's like, okay, the eye to hand coordination. Like, what happened here? So you need that. You gotta stay on top of it with the eye hand coordination.

Laura Arango Baier 46:58

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where, if you have, like a book, right, it's one of those and you know the fundamentals. But for some people might be like Harold speed, you know the signs of drawing, right? That's one of those books that I look at and I revisit sometimes, and I think I should probably get a new copy, because at one point it'll fall apart, because it's one of those things that it's good to have, like a revisit. It's good to reread books that you read as a student, to look through, what did I miss, or what did I think I understood, but then didn't really get it in the same way again. Like, you know, like I mentioned earlier, we are a progress. We are still in progress.

Brian Bateman 47:41

Yep, our painting. Your book sounds like my Andrew Loomis book. The dogs chewed on the spine, you know, the slip covers all chewed off and coming up. But I will go back and look at that book, refresh and relearn. And that's what got me started in Figure work.

Laura Arango Baier 48:05

Oh, he's so good. He's so good. And his method of explaining to and, yeah, the Loomis method

Brian Bateman 48:11

recommended, correct,

Laura Arango Baier 48:14

absolutely, he's really great. Also for composition, yeah, you know, that's another little side note there. But now I'm really eager to hear a little bit more, because now that you've brought up Andrew Loomis and illustration, I want to hear a little bit more about how you made the jump, as I like to call it, from you know, your day job into becoming a full time artist.

Brian Bateman 48:35

I was forced to make the jump I was working. I worked as a commercial artist on the side. That was my it was my job. So, you know, I went to private college in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I in the first year was illustration and painting, and then the second year was commercial art. And I had dreams of going up to Chicago and being a big, bad exec and doing all this stuff. And I've had people from my class who did the Frito Lay commercial? And the not Frito Lay Cheetos, I'm sorry, the little Chester Cheetah, he sat a couple chairs down for me. Brad Morgan, who's now, since passed away, but, and we had another person there who who did the Oscar Meyer song, the, I don't know if you've seen a little kid on the dock in mind below, and he has effort, did that one. So I had grander of, I'm going to get out of here and go be a big star in Chicago. And no, didn't happen. What happened was that I ended up leaving Chicago, going to California. So I lived in California for, oh, geez, now it's 36 or seven years. But while there, I had a couple jobs, but one of the jobs that I had was for. Were working for the upper deck company, the sports Trading Card Company, and that was a good job. I moved my my way up the ranks, all the way to Creative Director at the end, and managing, you know, and playing the management role and doing all that, and learning and about all all the goodies that go behind the scenes of corporate and and so came a time where I got laid off. We got laid off. We had a big layoff and and I went to the beach, and I called my wife, I said, Well, what do you think she goes now is the better? Now is the time? There's no better time than now to give it a shot. And so she was, she was on my side immediately. And again, that goes back to family members and significant others who who have to support and believe in you, because if you don't have that, that's an added friction that you don't need, and she's fantastic. She puts up with a lot, just as my family does, but that was when I started to become a professional artist. But it didn't happen overnight. I started doing it for five years, and it still wasn't really catching on, so I went back to freelancing and did that for a while. So it's a back and forth. You know, you you have to, you have to, you got to get money to come in somehow. But you want your art to thrive. You want, you want your business to go you want, you want things to pick up and take off. But they sometimes they don't. Immediately, they just don't. And so there's that tenacious tenacity word, again, you have to stick with it. So, you know, over time, I had a buddy I was just doing aviation art, and my wife and a buddy of mine said, you know, you need to branch out. You need to do something else, because some bringing them up in and maybe in headstrong, oh, no, I got this. Oh, I get that. It's fine. I've got it. Well, I didn't. And so after a while, said, Yeah, well, you're right. I had a buddy call me. Said, you know, Brian, have you seen the Western world, Western art world up there, that that's, that's pretty good. So he and I, we jumped off and started going in that direction. But you can't, you can't just jump in a direction that you don't know anything about. He went more cowboy and equestrian, and I went more Native American, which, which I've always had a passion for, and always had felt a sole attachment to, to the indigenous people and their plight and what happened to them, and all that wonderful part of history that's not so wonderful. And so relearning a genre was a little scary, and you just don't paint Indians and Native Americans. You have to know what tribe, what they wore, and what you know the guns, what you know, what they use. Bose now everything relearning. Well, I love to learn. So okay, so we just kept doing that and learning and going to photo shoots. There's a photo shoot in South Dakota, which is great. And all these models were authentic gear, and they and they're wearing what they're supposed to be wearing for the time period, and they have their correct arm ornament guns and everything. And, you know, there's, there's, it's a three day, you know, get together with artists and models, and you're shooting all kind of stuff for your reference, and it's a fantastic time. And that was a great way of learning too, gain, getting out there and learning new things and learning about yourself, and just in the same time. And so that kind of caught on and has given me a bigger audience and a better financial what's the word stability? And so now I jungle back and forth the two genres, between aviation and Western art. And when the Western art slows down, the aviation picks up, and when the aviation slows down, the Western art picks up. So right now, it's working fairly well. It could be better, but I can't complain at all. I really can't.

Laura Arango Baier 54:38

That's great. That's great, you know, because you're still, like you said very, very early in the episode, and even now you are in a genre, right? You're not just like, my thing is this, right? It's as if someone says, I want to paint cars. You have tons of cars that you could choose. Where you have historic cars, you have modern cars. You have, you know, a really good breadth with. In that genre, right? So with the historic genre, you've always had a passion for it, and that makes it so much easier to get, you know, to do that little switch without feeling like, Oh, I gotta do this now. Yeah. It's more like, yeah, it kind

Brian Bateman 55:13

of it was a segue. I mean, it was a big learning curve, and there still is. But the past six or seven years, you know, I've learned quite a bit from not only research, photo shoots and other artists, the Western artists are fantastic. They they are just good, decent, down to earth people who paint the American West and paint it the way that it was. And, you know, they're just, they're just talking to them is fantastic, and they will teach you and and guide you so you can be on your way.

Laura Arango Baier 55:58

And that's another really beautiful, wonderful thing. Because you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, a couple things there that immediately network, right? Network is so important, you know, meet other artists, talk to other artists like that. Because oftentimes, it's actually, in my opinion, it's very rare to meet an artist who doesn't want to help their fellow artists, right? I find it much more rare, because, sure, some people have this weird perspective of like, oh, competition. But in reality, there isn't, because every voice is so unique. You know, there are collectors who might collect multiple artists, and that's awesome, you know, yes, please, art, yeah. So it's wonderful to also have that. I will teach you everything I know, perspective or like that, that mentality, because it really one. It helps others who are, you know, also becoming Western artists who want to become Western artists. And even if it's the same genre, quote, unquote, the paintings will be vastly different. That's one and two. It's beneficial for future generations, because that information gets carried down and it continues. And I think that's equally important, even though it's more of a long term sort of perspective.

Brian Bateman 57:12

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think part of it is they are cognizant enough to know and to share their knowledge, because they know they're not going to do this forever. That's it. I mean, these, some of these men and women are making six figures on some of their paintings. And these, these auctions are phenomenal. So some collectors are paying for some of this work. But they're not snooty. They're down to earth. They are absolutely fantastic people, and I, I enjoy being a part of that that genre, because not only are they wonderful folks who share their knowledge, they accept you, no matter where your status is on the pecking order of of of the of the genre, and there is no, no hoity tweetiness about it, like some of these, some of these art shows and some of these art circles, and you'll, you'll have a little bit of an attitude, and you'll have this and that and the other, and that's, you know, that's not for me. That could be for somebody that's fine. I'm not not saying anything against it. I just don't enjoy it. And so I like the Down to Earth, meat and potatoes, type of, type of people that, that I can talk to and share, and they can share with me. And boy, I'm a sponge. I'm picking it up, and I'm I'm asking them at the art shows, what would you do to this paper? And they'll come and tell me, well, they're starters. And then, you know? And it's like, okay, I had a painting that that was in a in a big show in Tucson, and every and I would sit, I would stand back, and I would watch the patrons go by, and they would stop and look at, you know, this. They'd stop and look at that, and they would look at mine, and they keep going. Keep going. And I kept watching that, and I called a guy over who's pretty prominent. God, he's good painting. And I said, did you give me a moment? Because, yeah, sure. What do you want, Brian? I said, I've got a painting over here that collectors are just passing by. What's going on with this? Why are they, why aren't they recognizing this? Why aren't, why isn't something grabbing and so, you know, you look at, his name is Rs Riddick. He's He's good, and he's got a great, beautiful painting behind, and he gave, gave me his time, and I've got my wife took a picture of him, give him the critique, which is great, but I still ask for critiques, because I want to learn. I want to get better. There's no such thing as being good enough. There just isn't. And so he would come up and he would he. Would tell me what was going on and what I could change, what I could fix, and I did, and I sent it to a collector after it was revised, and she bought it again to not be sold on whatever it is. Your final piece of work is because there's always probably something you could do better. Maybe the tonal quality could be adjusted. Maybe the values could be adjusted, because painting is just value anyway, with color. All things to learn. Maybe the figure was a little stiff, you know. So, so things to look at, and that's what's part of that genre is so wonderful, is because they they share, they care, and they're genuine people and and I absolutely just love being with them when I can be with them. They're just, they're fantastic folks.

Laura Arango Baier 1:00:58

Oh, that's amazing, you know? I, I think it's, it's one of those things to remember, to always be humble, whether you're the person asking for the critique or you're the person giving it right. Because, again, we all want, like, the whole point is we all want everyone to succeed because we can. And just being able to ask a friend or like, someone in contemporary like, Hey, man, I admire you. You're amazing. Give me your fresh eyes on this that helps your painting sell.

Brian Bateman 1:01:27

Yeah, fresh, fresh eyes are the key to everything, I think, because I'll be working on a painting and it's not getting there, and I'll set it aside for a month, and then I look at it and like, oh, there it is. That's what I need to fix that. Yep, you know. And I'll look in the mirror, I'll put it in the mirror, I'll turn it upside down, I'll draw upside down, I'll paint upside down. It's for the initial block into the figure, because once you do that, your brain doesn't see a figure. And I love that you see the shape, and you can get the shape more accurately if it's upside down, it's not a hand, it's not a face, it's a shape. So when you invert it, it's much easier for me to do it that way. Now it might not work for others, but it does for me.

Laura Arango Baier 1:02:23

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the foundation of, you know, being accurate fan, in a really fantastic sort of way, is to be as abstract as possible for as long as possible, because it is so easy. And I think I mentioned this to a previous guest as well, where we were discussing how it's so easy for the brain to label something, we say that is an eye, and you fall into, I this is an eye, and it becomes too literal, or it becomes too symbolic, versus, is an eye really like that? I mean, if you ever look at like a Rembrandt portrait and you look at the person, you say, Yeah, that's a person. But if you really look at them, you think people don't really look like that. Like this is so much more abstracted and descriptive than we think, because, again, the logical brain that likes labeling things just wants to kick in and be like, This is what it is. But then, you know, the other side of your brain that's like, I don't know it is, but not necessarily, like, the thing came before the word, not the other way around, right? Yeah? And

Brian Bateman 1:03:31

And forcing yourself to see something different, yeah, for me, it helps if I'm struggling with something, drawing something, and I I still do. I can't get the arm right, or I can't get this, like, what's going on here? I'll just invert it. Got it the spatial relationship between the arm and the torso, or whatever there it is, that's what.

Laura Arango Baier 1:03:56

Yeah, there's there. And there's so many ways also to go about it, whether it's, you know, doing that, or even just looking at a person that you're painting and just being like, if this were a real human being and they needed to use their anatomy, would this person be able to even function right? Like, is the torso too disconnected from the body? Does it? Do they have an extra, I don't know, an extra piece of bone in their spine that they don't need, because it just doesn't feel right. You know, there's, yeah, you could. You could go the route of like, anatomy, like that. Or you could go the route of abstract, or both. Ideally, you know, you want to use these, again, fundamental tools, right,

Brian Bateman 1:04:34

the foundation, whatever works for that individual.

Laura Arango Baier 1:04:38

Yes, exactly, exactly. Um, yeah, those are all.

Brian Bateman 1:04:44

I've been talking too much. No, I love it. I love it.

Laura Arango Baier 1:04:47

I love it. Because there's so much in here that you've mentioned that I think you know for our listeners, is so important to remember. Because again, like, oh yes, art does have um. And the aspects of like marketing and all of these other business things, and, you know, the creative aspect, but fundamentally, it is the fundamentals. And just memorizing, you

Brian Bateman 1:05:13

cannot bypass the fundamentals. Don't even try to.

Laura Arango Baier 1:05:16

We all want to, and we've all tried.

Brian Bateman 1:05:19

We have all tried to bypass them. And you cannot, you cannot. You have to get those down.

Laura Arango Baier 1:05:24

Yeah, yeah. I think I mentioned this figure

Brian Bateman 1:05:27

in perspective. I mean, you've got to, you've got to know that insight now.

Laura Arango Baier 1:05:33

Yeah, yeah. And to quote Michael John angel, he used to tell us shortcuts make long journeys

Brian Bateman 1:05:40

exactly, and it's a journey you don't want to go down, and you've wasted time, no, no, and we don't have time to waste

Laura Arango Baier 1:05:47

Exactly. If the shortcut was the right way, that would have been the way, but it isn't. So come back here. Do your basics? Get it going. Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah. And then I want to talk a little bit more about something you mentioned earlier, which is wall space, because I want to talk a little bit more about, you know, like social media and galleries, and you know how you've how you've used both of those and teaching to diversify your income. I But first, I want to hear what you meant about wall space.

Brian Bateman 1:06:15

Well, time and time and time again, you will hear from the collector. I love it, but I don't have the wall space. Okay? Well, I used to paint, gosh, 30 by 40. I used to paint huge. I had trouble selling the huge paint, since they don't have wall space. Now, one of them ended up in a very nice Montana home and a big fireplace, stone fireplace, and had the space for it, perfect, but you've got to find that, that certain collector. And if you paint large, it took, it took five or six years to or maybe seven to sell that. And I redid that one. That's the one I took to Bill Anton and had him look at it, and he's like, Well, you can draw figures. Okay, that's good. That's, that's what you want to hear. And then he told me, you know, in the front of that robe, it's Lakota woman in Buffalo robe. In the front of that robe, it needs that shape break, broken up. Don't you put a, put a plant or something in front, in front of that to kind of that, to kind of break that shape up. Okay? I went home, I put a, I put a, like a sage or something in front of that, and broke the shape up and sold. So it's the little things that you have to learn that's going to make or break a sale. You know your your fundamentals, with your edges and your tone and all that has to be there your composition. You have to strike them with the composition and some of my figure work. Um, oh, here's something to share. Figures don't sell as well as action scenes. Portraits don't sell as well as action scenes. Something else to remember that I found out is that the smaller paintings, 12 by nines, 11 by fourteens, sell a lot more, and you have a better chance of a sale than your larger paintings, because of the wall space, you can get eight little nine by twelves in the space of a 2030, by 40. So you know, along the way there's there's a lot of trial and error and learning and frustration, and that's all part of it. That's all part of it. But what I have found, especially in my genre, is kind of the smaller paintings kind of sell a little better because of the wall space issue. And I've heard that in both genres. I've heard that in aviation, and I have heard Native American. So something to share a little tidbit,

Laura Arango Baier 1:09:08

yeah, and that's a really great tidbit, because again, like we I also want to remind you know listeners like 12 by nine is perfect, but if it's even more perfect, if it fits with what you're doing, because it is true, smaller pieces do sell a lot easier and a lot better, and it's a smaller price tag, so a lot it's a lot more accessible. And like you said, it doesn't mean you can't sell bigger work. Just expect that. You know, you have to also set an expectation of, if it's a big piece, give it some time. If it's a small piece, it could go a little quicker, but yeah, just managing that within what you love to do, yes,

Brian Bateman 1:09:45

and the smaller pieces can kind of sustain financially a little better than the larger. Waiting for the larger one to sell exactly you can sell the smaller ones quicker and have some revenue stream coming in mind you have to. Paint a lot of small ones to get them out there for people to see them. But it can't be done, and that could be a route to go before you really, you know you're known for that. And then you You're invited to bigger gallery shows, and you can expand the size, because then you're going to find a collector who wants that size, who wants that price point, who will pay 10 to $12,000 for it. And so the one sale that I had was a 30 by 40, I think it was 12,000 that was, that was a wonderful feeling. That was a personal high for me, that like, oh, my god, somebody, somebody will pay really. And so that made you feel good and that that gave you a little bit of credibility, but you can't, you can't rest on that. You can't fall back on that. While I sold the painting for $12,000 that's good, that's great, but you gotta keep selling. And you know, it's just something you have to just keep, keep working for and working towards. But she had the wall space, but most people don't. And some collectors will, will, will take their wall space and take some down and put others up, you know, just kind of transpose them, spring, fall, whatever. Yeah, which just went interesting too. So, but yeah, wall space is is a reality in the art world, and you have to kind of keep that in mind as you do your work,

Laura Arango Baier 1:11:35

exactly. Mind the wall space. Mind the wall space. Yeah, yep. And then also, I did want to ask, you know, how you've balanced, you know, like using social media as well. Because, you know, like I said, information time, do you find that social media has also helped you in terms of sales? Or, you know, maybe getting some eyes on your work.

Brian Bateman 1:11:57

Social media has helped to a degree. But as we were talking about earlier, the algorithms have changed on Facebook, where it's not as conducive to the artist as it was five years ago, and now they want you to they will help you, but you have to buy ads. You know, you have to buy this, you have to buy that, you have to have to buy, I guess, credibility to reach higher audiences. I still wrestle with that. I still post on Facebook and Instagram. I think Instagram is a better way to go, but just for the fact that Facebook isn't as good as they once were regarding artistic marketing, but I still do that. I still do my web you know, I do a blog. I had a blog in OPA recently where they reached out and wanted me to do a blog. So I did a blog regarding, you know, a passion for history. You know, find your niche, find what you love to do. So that really helps this interview with you. Really helps getting out there and having an audience that who may have heard of me, who may not have heard of me, and give me a chance and listen to what what I'm trying to get across and share and life lessons. I appreciate that, that that really helps. And you reached out, which was which was nice. I not quite sure how you found me, but I'm glad you did. So the marketing part for me could be better, but I do jump on it. When I have paintings at galleries and I have some big, big events coming up, I will, you know, post them and then write on the blog, update my website and write on Facebook and Instagram. I haven't joined Twitter or x or whatever they call it. Now, I'm not sure that some of this social media is as good as it was, and I know the younger artists out there who are using social media to their to their advantage, has a leg up on the older, older cow folks, because, you know, it's just, we do use it. We see the benefit in it. But doing videos and things, I have to get better at that. So that's, that's a, that's a that's an Achilles heel I need to attack and get out there and do the videos. And I don't know if you need to do a little dance with it when you're selling your painting, but you know, there's all kind of things out there that that that will help, that I should be doing more, but I do use social media for marketing and other tools for marketing, but the videos I need to do better with,

Laura Arango Baier 1:14:58

that's all of us. You're not alone. ,

Brian Bateman 1:15:01

Well, you're doing a video right now, and it works. Yeah, it does. I knew who you were, even when you wrote, oh yeah.

Laura Arango Baier 1:15:12

But it's, you know, obviously it's one thing to be doing the podcast. It's another, if it's for my own paintings, which, you know, again, like when you're an artist, you just it, just what you just said brings to mind so much that we have so many hats, right? The given is the work itself, and that's already so much. And then on top of that, it's dealing with galleries, networking, getting in shows, recording yourself to put it on the internet. That goes into it, that's, I understand why people would also, you know, they they'll do social media, but they prefer galleries, because, of course, galleries are, you know, they get their cut, and they sell your work, and a lot of the marketing gets done by them anyway. You know that that's what you pay the gallery for. But I do know artists who do just focus on hustling into their social media. They do well, and they get a lot of sales that way too. So it's a different piece of doing the same thing that everyone does, which is sell work and get students and get shows,

Brian Bateman 1:16:13

yeah, and usually on Monday, Monday is my marketing day, so I will walk Monday out, and I'll just pick a day to do the marketing, you know, half a day. Or, you know, whatever comes out. Or when I got a new painting coming out, share that, get that out there, you know, get a newsletter started, which I have, you know. So, you know, Faso gives you great tools to to help be successful. You just have to use those tools. And so I do use those and join the BoldBrush competition, and you just kind of stay out there and try and be relevant. We're all trying to be relevant. There's so many artists out there, so many good artists, and all we want is to be relevant and respected and to be seen and noticed and appreciated. And that that is at work in itself, because that, you know, it's a fight to clamor up, to be respected or to be noticed or appreciated, because there's so many good artists out there that are that are fine buying for that, that little piece of crumb that that you know, or or nickel, or whatever it is that you're fighting for, you know. So, yeah, I mean that that's, I do use it, but I need to be a little better on videos. And you've, you've gave me the incentive to start doing that, so we'll see how that goes.

Laura Arango Baier 1:17:43

Glad. Yeah, I'm sure you'll do really great again, because your work is so beautiful. And I think, if anything, if I could ask you for a suggestion, it would be to talk, like not to talk, but like to show some of your process, because I think it's, it's amazing, you know, the the perspective in your work and the way that you do it, whether it's your western art or your aviation art, I think that's one of the things I mean, personally, as an artist, I love to see process, but I know for sure there are also collectors out there who appreciate the work, and they themselves don't paint, but they also love to kind of see how things happen, because it's so fascinating. You know. Well, that's

Brian Bateman 1:18:17

good that you brought that up, because so many times they want to know the background of the piece. They want to know the story behind the piece, and sharing how that is done helps with sales. If you're out there, and I've done it for years, if you're out there and you're doing a like a demo, or you're at a street fair show. And I've done many street fairs in my day where you know, people are walking by and it's not an art venue, and they're not going to buy anything, but they're picking up your card, and they'll go and look at your website later. And you know, possibly you know, you never know you don't. It's all part of it. It's all part of paying the dues. It's all part of getting noticed. It's all part of learning about yourself, how to sell yourself. I was not very good at selling myself. I'm more introverted, so it's kind of hard for me to do that, but if you start talking to me about what I do, then I can talk about it. But if I meet somebody that that's out there and I'm and I'm shooting the bowl, and they ask what you do, and say, Oh, I'm an artist. Oh, you're an artist. So you draw pretty pictures all day, but we've all been through that, you know, it's not taken seriously. I'm a professional artist. Are you still doing pictures all day? Right? Yeah. So you know, it's a disrespected it's a disrespected profession, to a degree. Three artists in the profession know exactly what we're going through and exactly how and why we go through it. But the person who asked you what you do, I mean, so many parties I've been to work, you know, my wife has worked for Edward Jones, you know, and I'm a professional artist. So you draw pictures all day, and then they walk off. It's like, okay, well, yeah, I do. So, you know, the disrespect at times. It's like, Oh, come on. So, you know, you just have to laugh about it. You just have to be tenacious, you know, you just have to keep going. So, yeah, I digress, but yeah, it,

Laura Arango Baier 1:20:47

yeah, that tenacity really does kick in because, I mean, just because people don't understand it doesn't mean it's less important. And yes, it is a commodity, and we do it because we love it, and it's one of those things that is, in my opinion, a very selfish career, because it's very much like, I want to share my vision with the world. But also, at the same time, the world needs beauty out there and and it's so important because it, you know, there's imagine of everything in the world was colorless or imageless, like it's so that would make the world so, I mean, yeah, nature is beautiful, but if we're living in four white walls, right? Six technical ceiling floor, that's boring, that's demoralizing, you know? So we do need to fill the world with beauty. And, yeah, some people won't get it, but that's fine,

Brian Bateman 1:21:35

you know? That's fine. I just, you know, I'm used to it. It's been 30-40, years. You hear that and just, it's like, you know it, it's like, water running up a duck. Now, it's like, yeah, there are those that will come up and ask about it and are interested in it, but generally, you know, it's, you know, professional people, and they look as like, well, you married up, didn't you? It's like, you know, God, you know. Yeah, it's always a journey. It's always a struggle. And no matter where you are in your career or in your life, you, like you said, you're always learning, and you should never stop learning or wanting to learn about the process or a paint or or a technique or that's what's so cool about it, is learning more about what you've chosen to do,

Laura Arango Baier 1:22:29

always, more always and and also, I did want to ask because, you know, I'm one of those people who I like seeing paintings in real Life. So I wanted to ask you, do you have any upcoming shows, or do you have any workshops that are coming up?

Brian Bateman 1:22:49

I have upcoming shows at settlers West in May. I've got two pieces in there. That was one of the galleries that I fought for years to try to get in there, and I'm pleased as punch that I'm there. I'll have some work at the Coeur d'Alene Minister show coming up, hopefully I'll be in the mountain oyster club show coming up in Tucson in November, and that will be my eighth year out of nine years. One year I didn't get in, you have to be jitter again, and one year I didn't get in. So it was just, you know, it's a shot across the bow. It's like, you know, they were very nice about it, but like, up your game, pal. And so it's like, okay, I'll, I built my game. So, yeah, I mean, those shows are good as some of the, some of the options I'll try to get in, but I've got a mix of travel this year, going to to Europe at a certain time and so it's a juggling act. You know? You have to juggle what was the front part of your question?

Laura Arango Baier 1:24:07

Workshops.

Brian Bateman 1:24:10

I want to do a workshop very badly. I had an health issue last year where I was kind of out of commission for most of the year. Once the situation was under control, and we, you're just hired from a major operation, yeah, and I couldn't commit to either teaching or doing a workshop, and I want to do a workshop coming up about the figure, the figure in military aviation. I want to do that. It's basically figure work, you know, but getting the fundamentals across, but just using it in the genre that I that I enjoy. So hopefully in the fall I can get that going. But I do want to do more workshops. I enjoy teaching. I think if I could branch out into more mainstream fundamentals and and get across what we've discussed and kind of loosen up and abstract your work a bit. I love charcoal work too. I did a painting or a charcoal drawing called War Chief, and that's on the website that's I enjoyed that one. Again. It's a spontaneous kind of, kind of a Casey Bosh type of thing where, you know, he just does the technique and just has fun doing it. And I don't know, I haven't mentioned this, but I almost, I almost hung it up a couple of years ago because it was frustrating. Well, I didn't seem like I was getting anywhere. I wasn't going to cut my ear off, but I thought, you know, this, this is, this isn't working very well. And then I saw some of Casey ball's work. It's like, Oh, my God, this kid's good, you know? And he was a, he was a schmitty, but he did something different than, that, what Richard did. Richard's fantastic. He was another one that I should have mentioned. There's so many artists that have been inspirational. He's he's one of them, definitely. But, yeah, he kind of saved. He kind of saved. I might not say my career, but he saved my outlook on that the way he was approaching his work, being experimental, pushing it, subtracting some things where it still gets across. You know, less is more. Sometimes you don't have to add all the details. I mean, the progression painting behind you is absolutely fantastic, but I could never do it, nor would I want to. I've kind of, as I've gotten older, would like to do the more, more loose, stylized, kind of just fling and paint and see what happens, as long as the fundamental drawing is, is correct, it doesn't matter. But he he's he was very instrumental in in helping me look at things differently, because I was kind of stagnant. And so there's always artists out there who can give you a boost without even knowing them, by just looking at their work and being intrigued by what they're doing. There's a couple of folks out there doing charcoal work. I can't remember her name, but she's, she's, she's fantastic. I don't I should have had it pulled up and ready, but she does kind of like a blocky loose it's fantastic. I mean, it's just, you know, it just, it just gets the juices going. It's like, oh, that's cool. So there's always something out there that, always that somebody is doing that will, will get you going again. So if you ever run up across a block, a mental block, just start looking around. You know, there's, there's art out there that's going to inspire you, and it's going to kind of flip the switch and get you going again. So, yeah, the charcoal work I really enjoyed doing, and pulling that charcoal work into my oil painting now is what I've started to do. So so that that helps,

Laura Arango Baier 1:28:53

yeah, yeah, it's really easy to again. This isn't an easy career. You give so much of yourself in your work, and just being able to revitalize by experimenting, by trying a different medium that you normally make, those are all really important things to do, because it's it's easy to get defeated. There are moments for you know you have to, you take some time off, and then suddenly you're asking yourself, Am I an artist? I haven't painted in a while. Does it still count? Am I still an artist, you know? And, oh, that's, that's dangerous territory. That's when, that's when you know you should be, you know, looking into your fundamentals again, or just allowing yourself to play, just play with your work, and don't take it so seriously. Grab

Brian Bateman 1:29:37

a book, sit down and look at it again. Yeah, yeah, and re reintroduce yourself to why you're doing this in the first place, and if you still have trouble, then, then look around. They're out there. There is inspiration out there, no matter what genre, no matter what you're doing, there is something out there, somebody doing some. Thing different that's going to flip that switch for you, and it's got, oh, I want to, I want to, I gotta, I gotta go to the easel. Yes, another thing an artist sent to me, or not to me, but in general, is even when you don't feel like you want to draw or paint, get down there and do it anyway, because it'll come, yeah, you start slinging paint around, and get down there and start it'll, it'll come to you even when you don't feel like it, even when you don't feel good. And I, you know, I'll wrestle with that I don't feel good, or I don't I'm not in a good mental state. I've got to be in the right mental state to attack it. And so if I've been trying to get down there and trying to do that when I don't feel like it, when I'm not in the mental state, mental is so much part of what we do. We have to clear our heads, and we have to push life aside, and we have to be able to clearly focus on what it is we're trying to do. And sometimes life will get away like you mentioned, or or you're just mentally not there that day, or you don't feel well. But his advice was very, very great, to get down there and try it anyway, because it will come if you do, just start slinging it around. So I've had some good advice from a lot of people. Yeah, I

Laura Arango Baier 1:31:28

really have, yeah. And it's good to also, you know, like, like you're doing now, you're passing it along. And I think that's very important. And again, what you just said brings to mind that, you know, having that tenacity, whether it's against, you know, a gallery that keeps feeding you down, or, you know, you just keep trying, and then tenacity against your own self, you know, those mental blocks that we put that are so easy to just give into, don't give up. You

Brian Bateman 1:31:53

know, I agree. I think. I think we're our own worst enemy. We're our own worst critic, and we're our own worst enemy, and we have to fight that to help succeed. Because, like I said, mental is is probably 50% of it. The other half is, is, the foundation and and your technique, but the mental part to attack it, to understand it, and then attack it, because you have to attack it. If you're tentative, it's not going to show you mentioned something about about my technique and what I do, and I probably will do a video. Thank you for requesting that. But like. most artists, I'll just put down a wash of a color, usually it's transparent oxide red and a little bitof cobalt blue, and just scrub it real quick. And then nowadays I won't even draw the figure.Some people will put the figure down in charcoal or dry, won't I'll, I'll, I'll pick it out. I'll just pick out areas with my rag or a paper towel or something, while it's still wet. So that keeps it fresh. That keeps it more spontaneous, because I have a tendency to get too tight and noodle, and I don't want to noodle, so it's true yourself, yeah, so I just want to I just want to be more spontaneous, so that that's how I'll start and and then I'll just start, start with the eye, or maybe the forehead, and then just start working my way down that way. But I won't, I won't draw it onthe canvas anymore, because I'll get too tight, and I've got plenty of time to make sure that it's that it's correct, you know, the spatial relationship and all that. But I just, I want to keep it spontaneous. I want, I want things to happen. I don't. I don't want to. And there's artists out there that are going to rag on me and say, Why do you need to draw down again? Well, no, that's fine. That's just what I do. That's just how I approach it. Everybody's got a different way of doing it. Some will use charcoal to draw it down. I know Morgan. Morgan wiesling does. He's a fantastic artist. He'll draw with charcoal and get it, get the drawing down, right? But for me, I'd rather not, because I'll get too tight.

Laura Arango Baier 1:34:39

Yeah, it's part of discovering your process and experience. Yeah,

Brian Bateman 1:34:42

that's part of what works for you, what we talked about much earlier in the podcast, and what

what what works for you is what you go with, and it's part of, it becomes part of who you are as

an artist.

Laura Arango Baier 1:34:59

Everyone. Evolving, of course. And yeah. And on that note, if someone wants to look at your

beautiful work, where can they see it?

Brian Bateman 1:35:07

They can go to Brian Bateman art studios.com they

Laura Arango Baier 1:35:11

can check it out. Awesome. Yeah. And then social media.

Brian Bateman 1:35:18

God, you think I haven't done that by now? I don't just just look up Brian Bateman art studios.

Don't pop up. It'll probably be there, but I should know that, but it's some weird address on

Facebook. It's like something and a number, but maybe I can send it to you, and you can put it

on the podcast. Of course,

Laura Arango Baier 1:35:38

I'll include all of your links. Okay. Great. I appreciate it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much,

Brian, this has been a motivating, inspiring, and honestly, very one of the most realistic

conversations I've had in a while, because it really, you know, sets you down on the ground

about the realities, both in the marketing and business side of painting and the side of creation.

So thank you.

Brian Bateman 1:36:03

Well, thank you. And you know, I hope, I hope I can come across to younger artists and even

those who are a little longer in the tooth to what I've observed. And now, it's not for everybody,

but it's just my honest opinion of where I've been and where I've come from and where I'm

going.

Laura Arango Baier 1:36:32

Awesome. Well, thanks again.

Brian Bateman 1:36:34

Thank you, Laura. Appreciate it, of course.