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For today's episode we sat down with Matt Smith, an accomplished plein air painter with a deep love for the outdoors, especially in his home state of Arizona. Matt discusses his artistic journey from early exposure to art through his family, to finding his passion in landscape painting. He shares the challenges of becoming a full-time artist, emphasizing the importance of community, discipline, and embracing failure. Matt describes his painting process, starting with outdoor inspiration and refining in the studio. He also describes the role of galleries and social media in his career. He offers advice to aspiring artists, highlighting the value of maintaining a work structure, climbing up the ladder slow and steady, and maintaining a healthy work-life balance. Finally, Matt shares details about his upcoming shows and online teaching opportunities.
Matt's FASO Site:
https://www.mattsmithstudio.com/
Matt's Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/mattsmithpaintings/
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Transcript:
Matt Smith: 0:00
If you really want to do it, nothing is going to stop you. So get in and and get focused. Treat your time like you're you're at the office, you know, get a set time. You walk into the studio every day and you paint until this time. Take your time and climb the ladder. Start with whatever gallery you can get in. Have an eye on the gallery you want up here 10 years out or wherever, and slowly start to plan and move for that.
Laura Arango Baier: 0:28
Welcome the BoldBrush show where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art, marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all suggest their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world. In order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Matt Smith, an accomplished plein air painter with a deep love for the outdoors, especially in his home state of Arizona, Matt discusses his artistic journey from early exposure to art through his family to finding his passion in landscape painting. He shares the challenges of becoming a full time artist, emphasizing the importance of community discipline and embracing failure. Matt describes his painting process, starting with outdoor inspiration and refining in the studio. He also describes the role of galleries and social media in his career, he offers advice to aspiring artists, highlighting the value of maintaining a work structure, climbing up the ladder, slow and steady and maintaining a healthy work life balance. Finally, Matt shares details about his upcoming shows and online teaching opportunities. Welcome Matt to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?
Matt Smith: 1:40
Doing great. Thank you for having me.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:42
Yeah, thank you for being here. I'm really excited to talk to you, because we were just discussing this before we started. But you have a very well rounded, I guess, experience with the history of art, especially having an art historian mother, which is really cool. And your plein air work is so, so gorgeous. I love the vibratory quality that it has. And I can tell that there is your voice is just so present in your work, in a beautiful way that I can tell that it's your work which is kind of hard to see sometimes in plein air, because plein air is it, you know, especially wet into wet plein air is so hard to distinguish sometimes, but I find that your work is very distinguished, and I love that about it.
Matt Smith: 2:29
It's good to hear. Thank you.
Laura Arango Baier: 2:30
You're welcome, yeah. But before we dive into your gorgeous work, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?
Matt Smith: 2:37
Well, I grew up in Scottsdale, Arizona, kind of an outdoorsy kid and a family that liked to get out and hike and paint. As you mentioned earlier, my mother was an art history major, so art was always in our lives to one degree or another and and that's how it started, the connection between the two. It still took me quite a long time to figure out that I wanted to go in the directional landscape. When I initially started painting, I was more interested in wildlife and figurative work, but it never really struck like landscape did when I finally started doing that, it was funny, because I'd be painting away and always looking out the window wondering what's going on outside and on the weekends, I'd be out camping or fishing or just exploring and but for some reason, I thought, if you're going to do this, you have to go in the direction of figurative work and portraiture and that kind of thing. So that's what I did, until I slowly started looking around. I like to say I grew up in Scottsdale, so I had exposure to all these great galleries. And when I walked through the galleries, it was, it was the landscape work that really caught my attention, generally speaking. And so it started pulling me more and more in that direction. And when I started finally meet the artists who were bang along those lines, like Jim Reynolds and Clyde aspavigan artists like that. They really kind of encouraged me and opened my eyes to to the possibilities. And I like just adventure and travel too. So everything kind of went handed,
Laura Arango Baier: 4:14
yeah. And of course, the landscapes in in Arizona are so striking that, of course, I would also be looking around like, wow, that is, I want to capture that, which I definitely see in your work as well. But it also sounds like, you know, having your, I guess, your home line. So, surrounded by art. Did you follow the path of the artist from an early age, or was it something you return to later?
Matt Smith: 4:40
I kind of like, like to think of it as, I think every young person loves to draw an experiment and see things come alive on a on a sheet of paper, and knowing that they were in control of that, I'm just one of those folks who didn't let anybody take that from me. So. So it never stopped. All through school, I was always drawing, doodling, even painting. Started painting when I was, I think I got my first paint set when I was around 12 years old as a gift from my parents, and started playing around with that. And then, then that went into watercolors. And I played with watercolor for a while before oils took over. But it was always there. I was always playing with it. My mother was she actually started school as a as an art major, and didn't have the confidence to stick with it. She thought everybody was better than she was, so she went over to to art history. But at home, she'd dabble a little bit, she'd sketch, and from time to time she'd paint, so that influence and inspiration was there as well. And then, like I said earlier, that my parents collected will work on a small scale, so I get to meet artists, they became friends with a number of artists, and see the work hanging in the house, and just having it around was it was always there. Was always in the air, like I say,
Laura Arango Baier: 6:04
yeah, that is so cool. So I'm guessing, you know, once you graduated from high school, did you dive immediately into being an art major, or did you kind of look around a bit before you settled in on that?
Matt Smith: 6:17
By time I hit high school, I was already in in a gallery and selling my work. So I was serious about it. But at the same time, I thought, you know, you've got to be realistic. So I actually entered college as a business marketing major. I thought, well, business is smart. It's everywhere. I'm going to do the marketing side, because it's a little more creative as far as business goes. And during one of my electives, beginning drawing class, my teacher pulled me aside eventually and said, You know, I really like what you're doing. You really need to come over to the art department. So I gave that a thought, some thought for a while, and so on, my second year of college, I entered as a painting major into the art color.
Laura Arango Baier: 7:02
Do you find that having even just done one year of business marketing, did you find that any of that information was useful for you in the business side of being an artist?
Matt Smith: 7:14
Yes and no. The beginning, beginning business was was just so basic. What was more important to me, was being surrounded by a family of businessmen, my father, my brother, my brothers in law were all businessmen, so I would listen to them talk at family gatherings, and had exposure to that. And I always was able to consult my father, who was a good businessman, and and it in a word, yes, but at the same time, I was so focused on the art that that's the direction I wanted to go. It's smart for every artist to take some business classes, because whether you know it or not, if you're going to do it professionally, you are going to be a business person, and so you should know basic concepts and ideas about business and how to run a business. Definitely,
Laura Arango Baier: 8:03
I completely agree, and I'm so glad that you say that, because, you know, I feel like a lot of people, when they dive into this career, they they're so in love with painting, and that's totally great, but then just the love of painting isn't going to pay the bills for the most part. You have to be, you know, very aware of that whole aspect, unless you can hire someone to take care of that for you. But I doubt that someone who is an artist can afford that, at least at the beginning. And actually, that's another aspect that I want to ask you, which is when, when you finished college and you had your degree and everything. What challenges did you face when you became a full time artist? Did you have maybe a side job, or any type of side income at first and then weaned off? Or were you able to just jump in?
Matt Smith: 8:55
Well, I jumped in, but I did have to do side jobs. There was no money. I got married about six months after I graduated, something like that, and so my wife worked, and she was very supportive, so that helped. As a matter of fact, pretty much everybody's going to need something along those lines, unless they're very, very good from the start, but it's a struggle. But if you really love the process of creating and painting, you're having so much fun with that that you don't realize how difficult times are. So I was surrounded by friends who are graduating college and getting jobs, business majors, that kind of thing, and doing quite well. And so for quite a long time, I was sort of the broke guy, but I befriended a number of artists early on, Ralph Oberg, Dan young, Lorenzo Chavez, Ray Roberts, people like that. And we would go out and paint together, you know. And, and we, we were like minded, and, and in some cases, some of us were doing well. Others were kind of broke, so we could kind of feed off of one another and and that really helped. But there were some, there were some lean years which builds character. I think every artist should have to deal with that. It's at some point.
Laura Arango Baier: 10:17
Yes, I agree on two points, actually that you mentioned, which is the first one being, you know, the importance of community, you know, having people around you that are supportive, and then also other artists who are maybe going through the exact same thing, who can, you know, either commiserate, or can, you know, you can help each other kind of understand the situation a little bit more and maybe try to problem solve if there's some sort of hiccup on the road that maybe they've seen and you're just witnessing or experiencing, which I think is really important. And second point, yeah, and the second point is also, I totally agree that it is important to go through those lean times for the psyche, I guess because it's it's very easy to get complacent, if you're, you know, always, always, always doing well. It can be, it can get very easy to take it for granted. And then when those times hit where, oh no, I should have maybe saved more money, or I should have, you know, been a little bit more careful, it can really destroy your self esteem. So I think being prepared for that is very, very key. Yeah,
Matt Smith: 11:26
it is. And I've seen that a lot with young artists who came right out of school and they were just rocking it, doing great and and they've been like this ever since I when I came out of school, I was so bad there was nowhere to go but up. So it's been a constant, exciting, slow journey. But like I say, it's challenging and it's rewarding to see constant growth, even if it's little incremental bits. So I saw both sides of that, because I have so many friends who are artists, and I'd much rather see a constant, you know, level of growth and just hit it right out of the chute and level off, because you'll get bored, and that'll begin to show on your work if you're not careful.
Laura Arango Baier: 12:19
I completely agree. And it can also risk, you know, the artist, I guess, becoming, on one hand, a bit of a one trick pony, where they know it sells, and that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. But, like you said, it can get a little bit boring, because then you have that issue of the gallery demands a certain type of painting from you, but you're being stifled because you want to try other things, and you've already caged yourself, and then from there, getting out of that can be a bit risky. So I completely agree with you. I would prefer a slow and steady sort of rise, then something stratospheric, and then getting stuck like a little satellite, yeah, yeah. And then the other thing, actually, that I find interesting is, you know, you mentioned earlier that you had started with figurative work, and then eventually, you know, went over to the side of landscape. How, how was that like for you to shift over, you know, to pivot like, you know what? This isn't for me, even though I enjoyed it. I want to try this. What was that like for you? And did you find that you had, if you had any galleries at the time, did they support that as well?
Matt Smith: 13:36
The transition for me was more gradual. So I was doing portraits and sort of Native American things. And just as a side note, the best classes I had in college were figure drawing, because you had to get in there and you had to measure and you had to do it, and there was no departure from the reality of what was in front of you, like there wasn't a lot of the other painting classes. So that was great. But I started looking at art around me, like I said earlier, in the galleries here in Scottsdale, and I started seeing some of the Western artwork and the wildlife work. And so I started playing around with that idea, which were figures in a larger landscape. And I like that, that idea, so I started pursuing that. And quickly realized, well, I don't know anything about cowboys and I'm not a wildlife guy. I appreciate wildlife. It's always exciting to see wildlife, but it didn't, it didn't grab me like the rest of the landscape did. So eventually I started leaving all the figures and wildlife out and just pursuing the the landscape. When I did that, I realized the change was going to be dramatic. So I I stepped aside from the gallery that I was showing in, in the tuck at the time, I just said, it's I'm going to go in a new direction, and I need time to develop this. So I walked away from galleries for about, I'd say, four years or so, while I started developing that. I. And then about a year or two out of college, I I started feeling okay, I need to start selling some of these, or at least trying. And then I got back into the galleries, and it sort of went from there. But even after college, I graduated in 85 and I wasn't really seeing results the way I wanted in with my paintings until about 1990 so it took about five years, and I was working full time at the easel after a college degree, before I really started seeing the results that that I wanted to see. And once that grab bowl, the excitement really kicked into gear, and then I just kind of went from
Laura Arango Baier: 15:40
there. I you know, I really love that you mentioned that, because I think a lot of people, especially today, with with younger artists, there's this sense of urgency with, oh, I just graduated. I have to get my work out there. And I have the pain. Have to do that. Then I feel like that really drowns out the that exploratory phase of allowing yourself to work at something and focus on something kind of like how you said earlier, you know, the slow and steady way. And then once you see, hey, this is really working out, and I'm being, you know, cautious and disciplined about this, things start sort of taking off, or at least that's what it sounds like from your experience, which is, it feels more stable than everyone today, I guess, worried so much about social media, much more than the actual craft of painting itself. So I like that. I think that's awesome, and it's also more realistic. I actually would have said 10 years. But five years is actually pretty good to have, you know, done something pretty steadily, and then seeing the results start to kick up. That's really great.
Matt Smith: 16:54
Well, I was still painting the 15 years prior to that, so it was, it, it's, it's been a, been a long, long haul. But you know, the the the comment you just made about being in a hurry to succeed is, is, is a really valuable and it's that can be very dangerous. You're right. About social media, it has kind of opened the floodgates and exposed us to 1000s and 1000s of artists all over the world in a click, you know, fraction of a second, you can see, see great artwork everywhere. So you feel the need to, like you say, to race and keep up with everybody else. And that can be very damaging you, really. As artists, we need to set boundaries around this kind of a secret force field around us and keep everything that's damaging out, and that's been really important to me, especially now that I'm getting approaching my senior years, I'm really starting to reinforce those boundaries, because I know there's an end game now, when I'm young, it's nothing but time, and I just want To focus on doing the best paintings I I can, and I have to create an atmosphere in which to do that. So it's very important, if you're going awry with social media and the influences there, you really need to pull back. And as you know, it's a, it's a, it, there's, there's a lot of garbage on social media. But if you're if you're disciplined enough to kind of filter through that, there's a lot of really great stuff, all these young artists all over the world who are just doing phenomenal work. And it's so inspiring to see, and it really kind of helps us as individuals to quit thinking we're so important. As soon as you do crack an art history book, go to a museum, go to a good Gallery, and you're put right in your place. Go to the ultimate source, which is nature, and that will calm you right down and focus your attention.
Laura Arango Baier: 18:54
Yes, oh my gosh, yes. It's very humbling to remember. First of all, you know, like you said, just cracking open a book of, you know, any artist from the past, who is, you know, who has experienced nature itself, right? I mean, I feel like today, obviously, with the camera we have, we've been a little bit spoiled in that sense, where it's a little bit more easy for us. We have tools that are they provide more of a way of working that is, I guess, a little bit away from nature because it's so technologically based. But seeing things, say, like from Corot, right where he's capturing the landscape, and he's doing it in a way that it's melancholic, it has his essence in it, and then seeing the landscape itself and how difficult it is to capture it, I completely agree it's a very humbling experience, especially when you fail at it, right? I think that's another thing that is really important, is allowing yourself to failure and to tie back to, you know, the social media. Part, it can be way too much pressure to perform all the time with social media, especially if you're posting every day, or you have to post every day, it is so important to fail and give yourself that space to fail and not be worried about, oh, but if I don't paint this well enough, I you know, I can't post it, and then no one's going to follow me, and I'm going to lose followers, or whatever people worry about these days in that way. So I think you know hearing your perspective about giving yourself time and being pragmatic and being constantly humbled by the things around you that you're painting is such an important dose of reality. I think we need to inject back into the art world, especially, you know, people who are trapped in the social media loop. And actually, it makes me want to know a little bit more about your process. You know, from the Create, the conceptual creative side all the way into finished piece. How does that work? For you?
Matt Smith: 21:05
It always starts outdoors. So I don't try to come up with preconceived ideas and then go out and search for them, unless they come to me and they're powerful, because you end up spending all your time searching for something that might not exist. For me, it's better to go out. I spend a lot of time painting outdoors, and I'm really excited right now because we're coming off a very long, hot summer, and the weather is beautiful, so I'm looking at months of outdoor painting time here in in the desert around my house. So that's always exciting. But I get out there, and I spend a lot of time out there, and I try to keep an open mind when I go outdoors and let different scenarios present themselves to me or or subjects, or whatever it might be. But if I, if I decide I want to go out and paint, you know, a barrel cactus silhouetted against a dark Boulder, I might hike around for four hours, 510, hours, looking for, for that exact barrel cactus before I go home with nothing. Whereas if I just go out and keep an open mind and something shows up that's exciting, then I can paint it. Now. I bring that feel painting back into the studio, and I'll decide, and I back that up with photographs like you were just talking about. I'll decide if if it's worthy of painting on a larger scale or developing farther. And when you do enough of those, they start stacking up. I don't know if you can see behind me, but I have rails all over around my studio with these things stacked on there, stacks everywhere, kind of just like photographs. So it starts there. It starts with inspiration and idea that's presented itself out in the field, and then I come in and I develop it here in the studio on a larger scale. I will say this, though I put a lot of finish into my work on location, and that all started from the early years when I couldn't afford to travel. So everything was the desert around here, and I rarely brought a camera with me, because I could always go back the next day. So I learned to finish these in case I didn't use them as field work, I could send them to the galleries and at least try to make a little bit of money to cover art supplies and that kind of thing that kind of went from there, and an idea might sit around and germinate for four or five years. You just never know before, before, I really think, okay, there it is. I knew there was something there, and then have at it.
Laura Arango Baier: 23:38
So, so when you're hiking around and you're, you know, you're seeing the landscape around you. Is there sometimes a moment where you just, you look at something and you're just like, Aha, like, Is that how it works for you? Just have this vision and it aligns with a spot, and you say that right there. Is that how it is for you? That's
Matt Smith: 23:57
how it is. You never know what it'll be. It'll be a dramatic light condition. It'll be an unusual arrangement of elements, the character of an old dead mesquite tree, the classic, iconic Saguaro, silhouetted against the sky. You never know. But again, like I mentioned, if, if you keep an open mind, you're you're likely to see a larger variety in your work. You You hit on it a minute ago about when you come out of the chute, rock solid level out, and you repeat yourself. It's because, you know, there's success in that from a from a financial standpoint, and that can be deadly, but, but going out in the desert, I paint a lot of desert washes, and I'll probably get criticized for that, but that goes to the very root of my childhood. Growing up here in the desert, they were the natural corridors of the desert, these, these desert washes, and so I spent hours, I hiked miles and miles up and down these. Desert washes just fascinate native by by the character of the plant life and the rock formations along there, because that's where the water was, so that's where the variety was, and it's just beautiful. And to this day, I look at a nice desert wash, and I just think, get the paint gear out, I want to have at it.
Laura Arango Baier: 25:20
That's awesome though, because there's like, that's where the difference lies. You have a passion for them, and that's what you love, versus someone doing it because they know there's financial gain. You know that, I feel like that's big, big change in those two perspectives. And it goes to show that you know, your love of of the subject itself wins out. And like I said earlier, too, if someone does, you know, paint the same thing over and over, that's fine, especially if it does make the money. There's nothing wrong with that. I just know that at one point, that person might be doing it more for the financial side than for their passion, and that can really make or break one's relationship with this career, because this career is so self guided that once you start, you know, bowing your head to the financial side, it can start weighing heavy. And you know that that's a bad road to go on. So I think, yeah, it's, you have a very big difference there with enjoying what you paint and just making sure that it gets done because you love it, you know, yeah,
Matt Smith: 26:33
and I'm not going to buck the site, the financial side of things too. It's always nice to get that red dot. But, you know, and you can still repeat yourself, painting what you love, you know, exploring an idea over a period of decades, even, but, but generally, if it, if it's if it's grounded in a real appreciation for, for what it is, maybe a history of you and your youth, then there's something there. I teach workshops from time to time, and I've had students from places like, oh, I don't know, Illinois, Missouri. You know places that that aren't as, you know, dramatic as the West. But boy, I've been to those places, and they are beautiful. And I'm telling these folks, you have a history there. You have something to say about this. Tell me. Show me. Show me the beauty. If I as an outsider, I see it, then you probably can to it and connect to it on a much deeper level than I do. And so that sort of gives them the freedom to to love where they are and celebrate their surrounding. You ever been to Arkansas? I never thought Arkansas would be so beautiful, but what an incredible place. Yeah, so it's everywhere, and we, and living here in the United States, we have access to these these areas, especially out west, where we have a lot of BLM Bureau of Land Management, land and National Forest. I was told very early on, don't paint the Sonoran Desert, because you can't sell it. And I saw that as a challenge. And the more I painted it, the more I realized where an absolutely stunningly beautiful ecosystem it is, and the geography and geology and all of it, it's just beautiful. And I was lucky, because I didn't have many artists to refer to, historical artists to kind of be inspired or influenced by. You know, there was Maynard Dixon and, you know, Jimmy Swinnerton and a few others like that, but, but there wasn't a lot, so I had to find my own way. Which, which, I was frustrated about that early on, but I'm very thankful now that I had to do that.
Laura Arango Baier: 28:58
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you just mentioned about feeling challenged to do it, just to prove people wrong, and doing it like that, that really refers back a little bit to what I mentioned about being such a self guided career, where you truly can do whatever. As an artist, you can paint whatever you want, which can be, I guess, a little bit overwhelming for some people. And it it also makes me curious about, you know, why you started with figurative? Because you must have enjoyed figurative as well, right? And then, you know, realized later on, oh, maybe that's not what works. And the reason I'm curious about that is because I find that some artists, or a lot of artists, start out with one sort of view about what they think they want, and then maybe that changes over time. Do you find that that was a case for you where you did really enjoy figurative but then it. Kind of didn't fit in anymore.
Matt Smith: 30:03
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I was inspired by artists whose work I saw and had access to in the galleries around here, and some of the artists my parents were collecting, and so that's what I was exposed to. But as I broadened my horizons and and the art I had access to Phoenix Art Museum, the cowboy arts of America show things like that. I began to look elsewhere. And then, you know, access to the magazines and discovering, you know, historical painters that I wasn't aware of, Edgar Payne and I mentioned Maynard Dixon earlier, coronarugas, I began to see and appreciate their work in a more painterly approach to painting, and how difficult that was to do, and how beautiful it was and and so I started moving in that in that direction. But, you know, that's a personal thing. There's nothing wrong with figurative painter. Painters. I have friends who are figurative paintings, whose work I collect. I think they're absolutely phenomenal. Look up Bob lindler for one of them not familiar with his work. And yeah, so you see how good they are and how much they really love it. And and I've gone out painting with people like Bob, and he enjoys a day in the field, but it's, you know, the next day I'm ready to go back, and maybe he is, and then the next day and the next day. So we're all different, and that's what I mean by, you know, kind of discovering who you are and identifying who you are and celebrate those aspects of of what excite you and how they apply to your work. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 31:39
at BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that's BOLDBRUSHshow.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, FASO.com/podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, FASO.com/podcast. That's FASO.com forward slash podcast, yeah, yeah, no, I love that. And I, I mean, you know, from earlier that I mentioned, I also love figurative work very much in portraiture. I just find it fascinating, too, you know, because being an artist is such a transformative thing. You know, you might be painting one thing for one while, and then the next time, you might be doing something else. And along an art, an artist career, especially that's, you know, they've been working for very long, it's inevitable that their work is going to change and have these fluctuations and these discoveries within them. Um, which is why I just find it interesting to hear someone start out with one thing and then switch over to another thing, and then maybe in a couple of years, you might be doing something else. Because I think also, you know, referring to younger artists today, I find that a lot of them, they try to niche down so much that they kind of trap themselves into one thing, and then they don't know how to get out of it, or they want to niche themselves into something, but they're afraid that they won't get out of it, if you know what I mean, like, it can be very stifling as well, to try to corner yourself into one tiny like, oh well, this is what I am going to be known for. I'm going to be known for this exact thing forever. And it doesn't have to be like that. You know.
Matt Smith: 34:43
It doesn't. And when you know you come out as a young artist and you have nothing but time, it's think about it. 40 years later, are you still going to be excited about it? And that's really important, because that is a long time. And if you've you've got to maintain many. Maintain some level of interest. I still get really excited when I go outside to paint. Done a couple of terrific trips lately, you know, painting fall color in Colorado, the West Coast, that kind of thing. And I just, every time I get out and start hiking or set up, it's just wow. I can't believe I have access to this and help you. Why isn't everybody out here painting today? Why am I the only one so? So figure way to maintain that excitement, and if you, if you do, burrow down to just one thing and that keeps your excitement great. You know, everybody's different, and when people start telling you have to do this, you have to do that, a red flag should go up, but as long as you stay excited and interested about it, then, then you're probably going to see some success. And by the way, you had mentioned failure before, failure is a part of the process, so you you either learn to embrace it and learn from it, or it's going to lead to just years of frustration. It's it's everybody deals with it. I don't care if you're in music, if you're in acting, if you're in business, sports, failure is part of the process. And so just let it roll off your back and and go and keep and plow on. Just keep going
Laura Arango Baier: 36:21
Yes, yes, and that that's such a great point too to because it reminds us that our measure of worth isn't the painting, right? It comes from that learning and moving forward like you said, letting it roll off your back, just keep going, because that's just a moment in time, right? It's oops. Well, that's a mistake, and that's okay. I just won't do it again. And, you know, I think a lot of artists were so sensitive that we see a failed painting and it rigs us, you know, we get depressed. I feel like it happens
Matt Smith: 37:01
to all of us. It, it any artist, most important painting is the next one. So as soon as you finish, you're off to the next idea and trying to develop that and pursue that. And that's what keeps it exciting. And like you say, fun, enjoy the process. If you don't, you're in trouble. It'll it can still be frustrating. And difficult, but you can, you can find enjoyment in it as well. Yeah, especially if you're standing outside.
Laura Arango Baier: 37:31
Yeah, I feel like, if I ever want to try plein air in the desert, I would call you because I hope, I would hope your excitement is so contagious, and be like, Yeah, I think I see it too.
Matt Smith: 37:41
Yeah, I'll show you the good stuff. Come on out. Yeah. You know, a lot of people come into the Phoenix metro area and and so many people who have come here have have bladed the desert or cleared it and planted plant life from wherever they came from, California, Minnesota or wherever, big deciduous trees that wouldn't last a week here without a sprinkler system. But if you go out beyond those areas into the real desert, it is beautiful. It is really something.
Laura Arango Baier: 38:10
Yeah, yeah. And I'd love that you mentioned, you know, this is a bit off topic here, but I love that you mentioned the, you know, the the, I guess, the natural occurring plants of the area versus the ones that are brought in. I mean, there's a reason the native plants of a certain, you know, type of zone work, it's because they should be there. And, you know, seeing other trees that aren't supposed to be there put so much pressure on the environment. You know, that's another aspect that's a little bit heartbreaking, but only people who care enough to even notice like you will say something about it, right? So I just find that very interesting, that it made you a bit more aware of the environment, whereas someone, anyone else would probably be like, oh, yeah, that's that's just a tree. But you're also thinking, like, that's not supposed to be here,
Matt Smith: 39:04
yeah, and that can be beautiful. But yeah, it's,
Laura Arango Baier: 39:10
yeah, yeah. It's like, well, I love that. I love that your observation has gone, you know, beyond just Oh, I like this into oh, I want to celebrate the natural beauty of this specific place so much that I want to bring to light all of its components, which I really love. I love that aspect of what you're bringing up.
Matt Smith: 39:33
Yeah, I'm seeing these AI photographs, artificial intelligence, photograph, photographs popping up on social media, say, Monument Valley with saguaros. And that doesn't happen. They don't grow up there. And everybody comments how beautiful it is, and oh my god, I love the sorrows. And you think, okay, all sorts of strange things are going on out there.
Laura Arango Baier: 39:55
Yes, very topsy turvy. Um, and by the way, I did also want to know. Know how, since you've been, you know, working with galleries for a long time, how have you personally continued to work with galleries and, you know, maintained a relationship with them? What do you recommend for someone who maybe wants to work with
Matt Smith: 40:19
a gallery? I love my relationships with my galleries. I have been very fortunate, so I haven't had to do a lot of direct sales work, which I don't have a problem with that, other than it takes time away from painting. So the galleries have done their job, which has allowed me to do my thing. Build a good relationship with the galleries you're in. Understand that it's how difficult it is to successfully run a gallery. I just had a I just attended a show in one of my galleries up in Cody, Wyoming, the Simpson Gallagher gallery that just celebrated their 30th anniversary. I was really happy for them. They've done a phenomenal job of making that work. And then Maxwell Alexander just had their 12th anniversary. And, and, and they're, they're just doing great. I like seeing these going up starts. And then there are galleries, like the legacy gallery that I show in Scottsdale that's been around for, gosh, I'm thinking they go back at least to the early 90s. So they've been around for 30 plus years, 35 years, or whatever. And so these, these galleries, especially if you've known these people the whole time, the whole time you develop relationships with them. And they, they can take care of that, that business into things. But be, be mindful that it's generally they're in high traffic areas, so it's rent is very expensive if they're doing their job, which most of them do, they're worth the commission, yeah, and just, I would much rather show on galleries than do direct sales all day long, even though I will say that social media in so many different art forms has eliminated the middleman, and now you can very easily, very quickly, go directly to the clients if you choose to do that, which is great, because you get full you get the full retail sales amount. But again, at what cost? You know, it's worth it for me to pay the gallery their commission and spend that time outdoors, where somebody else might say, No, I want to develop these relationships. And so again, another case of, it's just a personal preference.
Laura Arango Baier: 42:32
And you know, like you said, there's, there are pros and cons to each you know, direction. You know, social media is really great in that and actually have found a lot of people who do have galleries and social media. Oftentimes, they can just direct, you know, the the person that's interested in their work to their gallery, instead of, you know, committing the cardinal sin of selling under the gallery, which no one should do. But you know, there is that benefit of if you do want more control over your sales, then there's that option of just going direct. It seems like you know, both ways of doing it have their merits, and I agree with you, there is a there's always a price. And if, for someone who does have a gallery, you know, you're saving time that would be taken away from painting. And, you know, the side that's more, I guess, more heavy on the mind of like, oh, well, I have to ship this painting, and I have to pack it, and then that's going to cost money as well, which is something people can consider if they do decide to cut the middle man, as you said. But do you also have, you also found that there are other marketing tools that have helped you, whether it's you know, going to a show and talking directly to collectors, or going to maybe painting societies. Has any of that you know helped with your sales? All
Matt Smith: 43:55
of the above. And just to be clear, I do direct sales too, and I don't see that as undercutting the gallery. What would be undercutting the gallery is, if the painting was in the gallery and you sold that out from under them, that I don't do, I might pull a painting that's been in the gallery a while and send it to another dealer, which I've done before, but that's a different deal. But if I post an image on Facebook and somebody contacts me, is that available, and it just came out of the field yesterday. Then it's, it's fair game again. Middle or social media, like I say, with eliminating the middle man has also exposed all collectors, to all galleries, all artists and everything. So it's, it used to be a collector, would go to one or two specific galleries, and it was kind of like their client, so you'd respect that. Now you don't know who saw your work where, or what's going on with that, so it's really blurred the lines and created some degree of confusion. Just pay respect to your galleries if you're working with. Them and understand that, and, and they'll understand as well that that you're going to be selling too, and, and so do the other galleries. I had a gallery. Tell me something. One of my gallery owners tell me something very interesting about 10 years ago. He said, Matt, we don't we don't so much fight for the clients anymore. We fight for the artist because the the clients are going to go wherever they have to go to get the artists they want. And that was the first time I ever heard that. I thought that was very interesting. So there's that aspect of it too. But in regards to marketing, I think everything comes into play. We talked about organizations earlier. A lot of the shows that I participate in, like the pre to west, and I'm about to do the core show here, and the Brisco and some of the gallery shows I just did, they really like the artists to be in attendance, because the collectors like to meet the artists, so you can make contacts there that can be very lasting. Again, back to the galleries social media, if you want to advertise, that's great. It's very expensive. Anytime I did advertise, what was more important to me was advertising the brand, rather than a specific painting. I have a lot of friends who are very picky about the specific painting, because it has to be available, even if it's not one of their better works, and I've talked to him quietly, I said, put the best pain you have out there, even if it's sold, because that's what people are going to put with your name, and it's very important. So you have to develop that too. And I'm not a real good marketing guy, even though, like I said, That's what I started with in college, because I haven't had to be because of the galleries. So if I was coming out, a lot of these young artists that are just coming out now are going to have to be a lot more aware of social media and how to work it, and how to take the bull by the horns and do all that on their own. But the good news is there's nobody to tell them they can't anymore, like a gallery director, sorry, you can't show here, okay, well, I'll show on Instagram or Facebook or wherever, because and the other beautiful thing is you can advertise worldwide that fast for $0 and if you have a large following, 1000s of people are going to see your image instantly. Whereas magazines, what is a good circulation? I don't even know, 70,000 would probably be a big one, and you're paying $2,800 for a page, or $3,500 or something. Yeah, that's not easy. That's
Laura Arango Baier: 47:37
painful. Yeah, yeah. Those are excellent points. I completely agree that, you know, social media has definitely leveled the playing field in a lot of ways, really opened up the floor to anyone who's enthusiastic about painting. And even then, you know, I've also seen a shift where galleries oftentimes will look more favorably at a possible artist that they want to show with if their social media following is high, which is very interesting as well, how both of those worlds are interacting in that way. And I love that you mentioned that it isn't undercutting the gallery. If someone saw it first on your page and you got to sell it because it wasn't with the gallery, because I have heard some people have issues with their specific galleries over that where who gets a sale, if the artist learning made the painting, but it wasn't with them. You know, that's a bit of a gray area, but it's good that your gallery understands, like, hey, you know it is what it is.
Matt Smith: 48:39
Yeah, that's where I get sideways with galleries, if they start trying to tell you that you owe them. Like I used to do a show in California, and there was a gallery up a group show with a bunch of artists, and there's a gallery that represented several and they wanted a commission of painting sold at that show, even though the show was already taking a commission. She said this, you're my artist. This is my region. And I thought that's insane. That's where you're overstepping the lines. And that can be, you know, a person that's difficult to work with, you can't do that. I had somebody ask about a painting that was on my website the other day that that was in a gallery, and I sent them to the gallery. I wasn't going to take it back from the gallery to make a full sale. So, and I was happy my gallery got to make some money too. So everybody, everybody came out fine, and, and, and I look better in my gallery's eyes because, you know, I sent a client to him. And as far as the the following on social media. These these galleries are trying to make a living too. So sure they want, they want artists that are going to bring people in and expose, hopefully expose all those clients to the rest of the artists in their gallery, maximize sales. It's just smart business. One of the things my dad told me a long time ago is Matt in in business, everything has been. Emotional, and I always remember that. So just remember that there's no set one set. Way I've had galleries call me on the phone and say, Matt, we love your work. We'd love to show you work. This is our commission rate. I said, Well, this is that won't work for me. This is what I work on. Well, we can't do that because we're on the same rate with every art. Well, I know for a fact they aren't. And I know if Howard terpening or Richard Schmidt came into the gallery and said, 25% commission. Who's going to say no to that of Howard Turk million dollar painting? Well, I'm only going to get 250,000 instead of 400,000 because I had to stick to the 6040, Commission, or 5050, or whatever it is, everything's negotiable.
Laura Arango Baier: 50:43
I like that. That's a great insider secret, that those rates can be negotiable. Because I think especially the younger artists aren't aware of that, especially now that the gallery model has become, I guess, less known about, since it's not as common these days because of the internet. So it's good to know that it's still worth, you know, negotiating even that point. Because I have heard a lot of people who are like, Oh, I refuse to work with galleries ever because of their commission fee. But knowing now you know, hey, this is actually negotiable, and we can work around something so that it works for both of us. Maybe those artists who poo pooed those galleries, because, oh, why would I do that? Maybe they would change their minds knowing that they could negotiate it. So that's an excellent, excellent point to make.
Matt Smith: 51:33
Just keep in mind that you have, you have to have negotiating power. If you're a brand new artist coming out, why would they take the risk? If you're, you know, a skip whitcom, or a, you know, Clyde aspavig, or somebody you, you have, you have some strength behind you, some weight behind you. You're going to bring in good clients. You're going to bring in clients who can afford to spend, you know, six figures on a painting if they want, certainly five figures, so there's something there, so you have to be reasonable about it and just stick to your guns.
Laura Arango Baier: 52:08
Yeah, yeah. And from what it sounds like as well, it sounds like it's also a bit of a long game where, obviously, at the beginning of your career, like I said, you can't really lay claim too much, so you have to work with what you got. And then over time, as your career develops and grows, you would hope to help, help yourself a little bit more with with your, I guess, your prestige that you start building up, which is really great, yeah. And then I like that you also mentioned, you know, meeting the collectors in person, especially, you know, the pre to West and any other of these really awesome, I guess, shows and experiences like that. How have you personally maintained relationships with collectors? Because I find that a lot of galleries are very hush hush about who their buyers are. Do you find that you're able to maintain some relationships with your collectors?
Matt Smith: 53:04
Yeah, I have collectors that that I'm close friends with. It just, it just depends. It's a personality things you hit it off with some of them, and some of them, maybe not so much. And it's, you know, just like fellow artists, I have a core group of friends that I travel and paint with frequently, just because we're like minded. Same thing with the collector. So they'll come into town and want to swing by the studio and visit, maybe have a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and and I enjoy that, you know, see where they're coming from, and they get to see my world. People are always kind of curious about how an artist lives and what they do. So, yeah, that's really fascinating people that way,
Laura Arango Baier: 53:46
definitely, definitely, I feel like people who collect art are very fascinating people. They're very particular, compared to like the artists, they're, yeah, yeah.
Unknown: 53:59
They are, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 54:00
They're very fascinating. They usually have very interesting lives, which is really cool. That's really great,
Matt Smith: 54:07
yeah, and you never know who you're going to meet. I sat and talked with several artists at a show just not long ago at Maxwell Alexander opening at the hotel we were staying at, and a couple of the collectors were talking about AI, and that turned into a fascinating conversation about that, where that was gone, going, and how we could protect ourselves. And you You never know really who you're talking to or sitting next to. And they can be quite modest sometimes, and they're very obviously, you know, if they're going to show and dropping money on a $20,000 ping, they're probably very successful people, yeah, and yeah, but at the same time you might meet, I don't know a school teacher, you know, just somebody you would think is an average Joe that loves art and will drop $2,000 on a painting and absolutely love it.
Laura Arango Baier: 54:57
Yeah. All this so sweet. I love. That? Yeah, it is very true. You never really know a person's hobby, I guess because I find that, you know, art collectors usually do it as a hobby. And it's a very that's true. It's an endearing hobby, especially, you know, coming from the set of artists. It's like, please continue that hobby, you guys. That's great. Yeah, which I actually want to ask you as well. What advice would you give to someone who wants to become a full time artist? Start
Matt Smith: 55:33
early at a young age. Don't decide you want to do that at 55, years of age. Well, if you're approaching retirement, that's better. But if you're 40 years old and you have three kids and a wife and a mortgage, be very careful about that. It's a tough way to make a living. Generally, when I teach workshops, I avoid getting into the real nitty gritty of the business of art and just how difficult it is, because I don't want to discourage people, if you really love painting, and you want to do it and then do it as early as you can. It certainly helps if you have a spouse who works. Many of the artists that I could mention names out here, including me, early on, I had a spouse who was very supportive, working and bringing money into the family, and so it helped kind of stabilize things. That certainly helps. But if you really want to do it, nothing is going to stop you. So get in and and get focused. Treat your time like you're you're at it at the office, you know, get a set time. You walk into the studio every day and you paint until this time. Don't bring a TV into your studio, or anything like that. Just take it seriously and treat it like a job. Think of it every time I got a job, like when I was in college, you know, a cook or something, I'd start at the ground level, and knowing that I was going to climb the ladder up as I gained understanding and experience, do the same thing with art. Take your time and climb the ladder. Start with whatever gallery you can get in. Have an eye on the gallery you want up here 10 years out or whatever, and slowly start to plan and move for that and and by all means, don't spend yourself into debt that will that will destroy you. Live within your means, and you'd be surprised how little money you can actually make and have a good life. Because, you know, I've had, I've had workshops where I've had lawyers and doctors in my class who are there because they took time off work to pursue their hobby. Think of an artist. You're pursuing your hobby. 24/7, you just don't have a bunch of extra money to play with, but you're, you're, you're living the life and you can, you can really live on very little and still pursue an enjoyable life. Just through pursuing your hobby or your interest,
Laura Arango Baier: 57:57
with great freedom comes great responsibility,
Matt Smith: 58:01
really does. And one of the, one of the things that kept me focused is seeing my my father and my my other family members who were businessmen and who were very structured and so, so I felt I needed to create an atmosphere where I was thinking the same way. And that's what I did, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 58:20
yeah. And that's an excellent, excellent point, because it adds, I feel like adding that structure, gives it that weight of the seriousness of it, because it's a it's one thing to just like to be an artist, or have this fantastic, sort of dreamy idea of what being an artist is. But when it comes down to it, you can't be an artist without the art to, you know, to keep you going. So I yeah, I agree that having that discipline, that structure, that seriousness to approaching the canvas, approaching your work can really make a shift in your mindset, with your relationship to your career as an artist. So that's a excellent point to make. It's
Matt Smith: 59:11
also important to create an atmosphere where as soon as you walk through the doors, you want to rise to the level. And so think about that however. That may be one person. It might be industrial. Some somebody else might have fine furniture in their studio, and they want to create work that would go with furniture. I don't know whatever it is, but walk through those doors and walk into a zone where you want to create and rise to the occasion. And a lot of these young artists might want to also do a little teaching, maybe some beginning painting classes or workshop, that kind of thing. And one of the things that does is it kind of focuses your thinking. When we paint, we tend to paint intuitively. Things are coming out that we're not analyzing. They've art we've already. Them. So we know, so we're just pulling from our memory bank, but when you're forced to verbalize those ideas, it makes you think on a deeper level, so that you can more clearly express it to your students. So that helps as well. If you only do it for a few years, it'll just kind of get you on track and thinking that way. And if it's something you love, maybe it's something you do, you know workshop once a year for the rest of your life. Who knows? Again, individual preference,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:31
yeah, yeah. And then that's another income stream that can benefit the artists as well. It sure is, yeah, yeah. I know a lot of artists who teach workshops, precisely because it gives them time to make some money, meet new people, maybe even sell some paintings to their students, because that usually happens. And then, you know, thanks to that, they can continue painting for X amount of time without having to worry too much about, oh, I need to sell painting this month, or, oh, I need to send this to my gallery, like, right now. Yeah, it's a bit of that time management side.
Matt Smith: 1:01:10
It's also a great way to maintain your sanity, because when you paint out the desert alone, you know, surrounded by lizards and snakes and avellina, or in your studio alone, it's nice to get out into an atmosphere of like minded people and just kind of share what, you know, I've always enjoyed that, especially when they you see their aha moments, that's always exciting. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:31
it's very sweet to see that, and then you make such a great point. It is I, I always forget that being an artist is such an isolating career. Because, you know, me being an introvert, I love being alone. But then it does feel nice when you know you go out teach a workshop and you see your students and and connect with them, and remember, oh yeah, there are people out there who are really great people, and they love this too, and you don't have to be alone. Yeah. And speaking of workshops, actually, do you have any workshops that are coming up?
Matt Smith: 1:02:04
I've kind of cut back on in person workshops. I do one a year at the Scott star to school, because that's where I taught my first workshop, and they've been so supportive. As a matter of fact, when I got out of college, I took several workshops at Scottsdale art of school with artists I admire, and they kind of set me on the right track that was very important to me. So I understand the importance of schools like that, but I teach an online class through the Tucson Art Academy online, and they are open for enrollment three times a year. It's like March, July and November, but that's been kind of fun, because I can work it into my schedule, in and around my painting time. And at first I was they asked me to do that for several years, and I said no, because I'm just not a tech person, and I didn't want to figure it out, and I just couldn't visualize how that would work. But once I got into it, it it's really it's really great, and the students really love it, and they can jump in when when they want, or jump in and out. And, you know, it's all through private Facebook community. So it's, it's been kind of interesting.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:11
Yeah, great, nice. Oh, that is so cool. I that's another aspect of technology that I think has really broadened the horizons for a lot of artists with especially post pandemic, has been, you know, online workshops and teaching online, which is definitely much nicer on the wallet. You don't have to fly out pay for a hotel, which oftentimes can be very expensive, unless the venue where they're having your workshop can cover those expenses, which doesn't always happen. So it's really great,
Matt Smith: 1:03:43
yeah, no, it's, um, yeah, it's, it's just think of travel time to in front of workshop, if I'm flying over to the East Coast, that's at least two days of my time, and travel there and back that I can't, I can't get back. And so it, yeah, it could be a problem. And there are drawbacks to both. I mean, we're talking about the drawbacks to in person. Drawback to online is you don't have that one on one in hand communication when they're standing right next to you, but you can it. The only limitation the online thing really is because there is no limit. How creative Are you? As far as expressing an idea through video or or however it may be, you can really, it can be, it can really be a powerful medium. So that's another thing to consider for videos. If you want to do an educational video, yeah, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:04:35
You know, like you said, there's, there's room for everyone and every kind of lifestyle taste, etc. So, yeah, that's great. And then do you have any upcoming shows? Actually?
Matt Smith: 1:04:48
Oh, gosh, I need to update my website. Yep. So the next one coming up is the Coor show in Denver, that's in January. And then I have, it's. Show that they upstarted the legacy gallery last year that was quite successful, a Western show that's going to be in early March, but it's what. If you go to the legacy gallery website, you'll see, you'll see an advertisement for the show. It's in very early March, then the Briscoe at the Brisco Museum, and night of artists. It's called in in San Antonio, and then the pre to west and in June. So so that I'm not doing any one person shows. I don't. I don't want to set work aside that long. I'd rather do these shows where it's three or four paintings spread out over time and and then I can get those taken care of, and then just the ship the gallery inventory. Yeah. I'll update my website soon, which is Matt Smith studio.com,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:05:48
yeah, perfect. And actually, now that you mentioned the the soda show aspect, I was going to ask, because that's a lot of shows coming up, how do you time manage for all of those paintings that you would have to ship out,
Matt Smith: 1:06:03
from a shipping standpoint, or just creating the work
Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:06
every step, like from the beginning to the end. Because if you know you have a show that you're being invited to, oftentimes it'll be like, Well, I don't have any paintings on me, so I gotta make some. How do you manage that time?
Matt Smith: 1:06:18
Okay, so this is you're probably going to laugh, but this is how I work. I paint whatever I want to paint, whenever I want to paint it. That's my deal. And when the show deadline comes, I pick the four best ones to send in for that show, or I start saving them. Once I commit to the show, I do better work if I enjoy the process and I'm paying something really interests me, I can't say, Okay, I'm going to paint a this or that and a that, because I don't know if they'll turn out. So I paint what interests me, and then I pull out the four best versions, or three or however many are needed for a particular show. And that's when I send during the year. I might pick out if I have a particularly good painting, I might say, Okay, I want to. I'm going to hang on to this for this show that's eight months out. They usually need the images and advances, you know, for catalogs, that kind of thing anyway. But yeah, that's what, that's how I manage myself. And then as far as the shipping and all that, that's just, I take care of that business in the morning and get everything off my mind so that I can focus on painting late morning or into the afternoons. And I generally paint, you know, up until about five or six in the evening. I don't like to get burned out, because that will influence the next day. So I'm not one of these artists who works till two in the morning on a painting to get a deadline done. I just my my brain doesn't work that way. I have friends who do and they pull it off very well. I have friends who will say, Okay, this week, I have to paint a show for this very or a painting for this very important show. And they're so good, they can do it. They know that painting is going to turn out and it'll work. I don't, you know, a painting might go downhill just as quickly as it succeeds for me. So, yeah, I just paint and save the better ones for the show, whether it's a gallery show or a museum show,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:18
that's a that's really excellent too, because it goes to show that you know, in in working, you also get to know yourself and how you work and how you function. Because, like you mentioned, you know your friends might have a different process for themselves, and it works for them, but knowing and having those boundaries of this is what works for me, and I'm not going to change that, just because so and so is doing it that is such a key point to make. Yeah, yeah. And
Matt Smith: 1:08:47
you'll figure it out. No matter what you do in life, you'll you'll figure out what those boundaries are and and how you can expand them or limit them, and just sort of control your environment so you can do what you do best, because that's what it's all about.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:04
Yes, absolutely, wow. A bunch of great points. A bunch of great points. Well, thank you so much, Matt for all of your awesome, really important advice and key points, because they're going to be bouncing around in my head a lot, and I hope also our listeners heads
Matt Smith: 1:09:24
Well, thank you, and I appreciate you interviewing me. And yeah, of course, go Faso,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:32
yeah, and I'll be including all of your links in the show notes, in case anyone wants to go check out your beautiful work on your website and maybe sign up for your newsletter to stay up to date. Yeah,
Matt Smith: 1:09:42
I appreciate that, of course.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:45
Thanks again.
Matt Smith: 1:09:46
You bet you.
