Hi, I read your email about Shana with great interest. Most notably about being clear with stating price, also about offering a payment plan. So I logged on to Shana’s website and noticed two things: 1. Her prices are not included, just the usual “contact the artist about this work. (This never works for me, if I can’t see a price I move on.) and 2. Her payment plan is a small note on her contact page. (Maybe that works for some but again, no price and no details). I did not listen to the original podcast so maybe I’m missing something?
I think those are things that tie in with her recommendation to follow up quickly and thoroughly. She may not be offering it DIRECTLY on the website, but she does provide such details and options clearly and quickly to potential collectors no matter what channel they approach her through (including her website). She probably gets a lot of leads from social media as she said it's been one of her best channels.
I respond to every inquiry, only to find that 99% of them are looking for an NFT. The prices are stated clearly on my website, so when someone writes to ask me if the work if for sale and how much it is, my first assumption is that they are not legitimate buyers. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Yes, this is a real problem. I mostly just treat them like a legitimate buyer and when they bring up NFTs I simply say, I'm never doing NFTs...ever. Sometimes I bring that up in the first response. They can't NFT scam us if we aren't doing NFTs. However, I've mostly seen NFT scammers not approaching with specific pieces and asking for specific prices.
I feel like we're getting mixed messages when it comes to marketing our art in the current environment. We are first warned not to share our art on social media, as the "mega" platforms are scraping people's artwork to train their "machines." In this set of advice we are told to share our work on social media "frequently." The idea of posting to social media sort of seems like selling one's soul for the sake of the almighty dollar.
Yes. We have different authors sharing different points of view. I, personally, am not that keen on marketing on social media these days. Shana, however, has been quite successful at it. The tech platforms are for sure training AI on uploaded content. As always, it's up to each individual to decide their marketing mix and comfort level. There is no one right way to do this. For those who DO wish to market on social, I'd listen to Shana's advice for sure.
It's tough to know what to do. I used to post all the time on social media, but stopped when I learned how these platforms were using our content. I sure don't have it figured out. I keep painting, of course, but it's hard to figure out how to share my work with the larger world. Social media would be the perfect vehicle if they respected people's creative work. It seems the notion of copyright is a thing of the past.
Yeah, you're right. The copyright office has ruled that AI created works are not eligible for copyright. That was a blow to the AI companies. So that is a little bit of "our revenge." Presumably that means if someone makes a movie or book with AI we could all use it to our hearts content without violating copyright. It also means, and artists should be aware of this, that if, for example, a writer uses AI to write parts of his work, those parts are technically not protected by copyright. Personally I think anything made with AI even a little bit should immediately be considered public domain. They may have violated are rights to create those system but they shouldn't also get copyright on top of that.
Diane something to consider is the explosion of AI copying artists art is actually making real art more valuable. I understand the fear but no robot can ever replace the essence of you. The artist is just as important as the art and too often we forget that. AI is like "stickers" or Temu Art. It is not something humans will pay thousands of dollars for. It will not become a part of their family legacy. There are things that are worth considering if you do return to the social media world that will help protect your digital identity online - I do think it is worthwhile to pay for verification on the social platforms. Its a marketing expense but comes with some impersonation protection. There are also apps coming out that glaze over images that distort them to the Ai - it does take extra steps and work but can be useful when sharing higher resolution images. I am sure more will be coming out soon as tech advances. Lastly - Social media is only one of the many ways artists can build awareness that they exist. the goal is to meet humans - either online or offline. In person exposure is just as valuable, if not more. We had a great interview last year with a young artist that makes most of his sales at shows. https://artists.boldbrush.com/p/samuel-hoskins-on-boldbrush-live He shared his approach and tips and he has been very successful.
Find the method that aligns with you, not out of fear but lean into your strengths and preferences and give it all you've got! Consistency is the common denominator for all successful artists, whether they lean into the social media approach or go all in for in person exposure, consistency is what leads to their eventual success. :)
I appreciate your perspective, Olya. I agree with your premise that the huge morass of AI-generated "art" will make human creation more valuable. I just kind of resent the assault on such a basic human drive - the drive to simply create, in a direct manner - and to be able to share the fruits of my labor with other people without layers of complication and the need for protection.
I’m interested in the details of the payment plan? Does the collector make all the payments for a year or so and then receive the artwork or does she arrange a payment plan and send the artwork out and trust that the collector will follow through on the payment plan?
We do have plans to introduce payment plays but that's not the service I mentioned in this post. What we have in mind is more like a sales assistant service to handle follow ups properly. Payment plans would probably happen through one of the pay later services so you would get paid everything up front.
Very good article!! I am very bad about following up after I post something so if that is something that FASO is thinking of helping artists with, I would definitely be interested in creating a website on FASO. I keep putting it off because I’m busy with other things, but that would be a wonderful perk and having a website with you.
What we had in mind isn't exactly that. What we have in mind is more like a service to respond to and follow up with people who contact you through your website so that sales aren't lost due to poor follow up practices.
I would gladly reply promptly to emails that come through FASO, but when I get a notification (and it says it's likely spam), I go to my mailbox and there is nothing there. It takes a few days to show up. As for AI, I use it a lot. It's just another tool for us. I was in a zoom meeting the other day, and was amazed at the professional summary and detailed notes that Gemini provided.
This sounds like our support team can help you. If you get a notification from us, then the message is for sure there already. If it says it's likely spam it'll be in the spam folder inside the messages section of your FASO account. If it's legit, you can move it to the inbox.
You are correct that AI is "just another tool." However, there is a thing about humans - our tools aren't inert. We create our tools, but our tools also shape us. People can't do basic math anymore because of calculators and computers. People can't spell as well because of spellcheck and google. Once humans invent a tool, we tend to offload our cognition/labor to the tool. That is fine. However it does have consequences on a societal level. AI is cognition--thinking, if you will. And we are already seeing younger people using AI to offload their THINKING. Why should I learn to read when AI can read it to me? Why should I learn discernment when AI can tell me what something means? These are real issues happening right now in high schools and colleges. People graduating who can't read above a sixth grade level. People who can't focus on one thing for more than a few seconds due to attention span degradation. This idea that our tools shape us is what Marshal McLuan wrote about in his famous work "The Medium IS the Message." So, it is true, AI can be used as "just" a tool, and that's how I use it. But it really is re-shaping the entire civilization since "the medium is the message" and many of the ways it is reshaping humanity may not be positive.
You are right though, it is good at summarizing. Just be careful with that for a couple of reasons - 1. AI has a way of writing things that sound profound but don't actually say anything important. I had to remove and rewrite those kinds of empty sentences in what it summarized out of Shana's talk with us. And 2. (this is the worse problem) it just flat out lies, and often, and lies with confidence. I have learned to ALWAYS do my own research if something AI told me is important. Just ask it about a topic you know really well some time to expose the lies. I will admit that Gemini seems slightly better at that than ChatGPT, but who is "better" changes all the time as the companies keep racing to beat each other.
Thank you so much for your comment, I didn't mean to write a book in response!
Thanks, Clint. Pretty sure I have checked all the folders, but I will raise a support ticket next time. As a professional accountant, we have to know how to do things manually, including tax returns. When I say AI is a tool, it does not relieve us of the responsibility of checking its output for validity or of knowledge of the subject. It has reshaped my process but not me.
I grow tired of substack quirks today. The article is good. The option for a payment plans sounds great. But exactly what are you offering behind the scenes for such a payment plan? There are many artist that do not display how much their art is. All the advice in this is great. Her work is beautiful and fun. Thank you for a another great read.
Yes, Substack is irksome sometime. We eventually plan to duplicate the features that drew us to Substack and move our writing back to our own platform so we can better solve such quirks. I've complained to them multiple times about some of the quirks and they don't seem interested in feedback.
I recently did a search for my name, plus "artist" and AI produced a paragraph on who I am, my education, description of my artwork, etc. It read smoothly and was fairly accurate..Amazingly, it borrowed most of the information from my online bio and website, so it's from content I've already hand-entered online.
When I'm writing creatively, I don't use AI to generate my content since that's a labor of love for me, but after reading how this article was developed, I'm thinking I could use it to generate an outline from my stream-of-consciousness approach of getting my thoughts down. Perhaps AI will just declare me insane in the early stages.
I have not used AI to generate images for my paintings. I've been tempted though. After reading more about how it works, I've firmly decided against it. I'll just have to use the skills I've developed over time and let the machine optimization slide. Facebook throws out AI images of my paintings every so often and asks me to post them. They look like cartoon/posters. Not unattractive, but not my style at all.
I've been wanting to listen to the original podcast with Shanna. I had no idea that she sells and markets her work directly. I'm fascinated by that. I've been noticing that other artists are making very good income by skipping the gallery model altogether. I'll have a listen to Shanna this afternoon! PS I didn't have time to edit this ;-)
AI for summarizing can be a good use, for organizing a bunch of random thoughts. Just make sure not to fall to the temptation to then use that as some kind of finished work. It is really good at writing things that, at first, you think "yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking!" And things that at first blush sound profound, but upon deeper reflection those things are often vacuous and empty. It's a sort of surface level glamour of profundity that quickly falls apart when you start digging in. I have used it mostly to brainstorm ideas as if I'm talking with Socrates or something but I always start fresh and do my own writing. The other way I've used it is to ask to it play the role of developmental editor and feed it an essay and ask for feedback. I don't alsways agree and don't always make the changes it suggests but it is helpful to spur thinking. ALso remember - these AIs are targetting pushing all writing toward a 6th grade level since, sadly, most americans can't read above that level. I, personally, will not water down my work to "explain it to a sixth grader." Some subjects require a higher level of writing and require work from the reader and that's fine with me, those are the readers I care about. I'm not saying not to use it, I'm just saying be careful not to full into its thrall. The people developing this stuff, despite their propaganda, aren't doing it for our good, so....just be discerning. But, with caution, it can be a useful tool.
All good points Clint. I'll need to read your reply a couple of times to get all you wanted me to 'hear'. Fortunately, I haven't used AI in my writing or my art. Like you, I consider writing to be a form of art (I think you see it that way).
I like what you say about not reducing the text to a 6th grade reading level... definitely something I never want to do.
Lately, Subtack is offering ways to produce video and podcast content. I understand why they're doing that. It's another form of communication. I had previously regarded Substack as one of the few writing platforms left, and that's how I intend to use it. I enjoy the quietness and pondering phases of writing more than anything, especially on paper with pen at first, then later online.
You offer very good advice here. I take it seriously.
Hi, I read your email about Shana with great interest. Most notably about being clear with stating price, also about offering a payment plan. So I logged on to Shana’s website and noticed two things: 1. Her prices are not included, just the usual “contact the artist about this work. (This never works for me, if I can’t see a price I move on.) and 2. Her payment plan is a small note on her contact page. (Maybe that works for some but again, no price and no details). I did not listen to the original podcast so maybe I’m missing something?
I think those are things that tie in with her recommendation to follow up quickly and thoroughly. She may not be offering it DIRECTLY on the website, but she does provide such details and options clearly and quickly to potential collectors no matter what channel they approach her through (including her website). She probably gets a lot of leads from social media as she said it's been one of her best channels.
I respond to every inquiry, only to find that 99% of them are looking for an NFT. The prices are stated clearly on my website, so when someone writes to ask me if the work if for sale and how much it is, my first assumption is that they are not legitimate buyers. Do you have any thoughts on this?
That's my thinking too, Erin.
Yes, this is a real problem. I mostly just treat them like a legitimate buyer and when they bring up NFTs I simply say, I'm never doing NFTs...ever. Sometimes I bring that up in the first response. They can't NFT scam us if we aren't doing NFTs. However, I've mostly seen NFT scammers not approaching with specific pieces and asking for specific prices.
I feel like we're getting mixed messages when it comes to marketing our art in the current environment. We are first warned not to share our art on social media, as the "mega" platforms are scraping people's artwork to train their "machines." In this set of advice we are told to share our work on social media "frequently." The idea of posting to social media sort of seems like selling one's soul for the sake of the almighty dollar.
Yes. We have different authors sharing different points of view. I, personally, am not that keen on marketing on social media these days. Shana, however, has been quite successful at it. The tech platforms are for sure training AI on uploaded content. As always, it's up to each individual to decide their marketing mix and comfort level. There is no one right way to do this. For those who DO wish to market on social, I'd listen to Shana's advice for sure.
It's tough to know what to do. I used to post all the time on social media, but stopped when I learned how these platforms were using our content. I sure don't have it figured out. I keep painting, of course, but it's hard to figure out how to share my work with the larger world. Social media would be the perfect vehicle if they respected people's creative work. It seems the notion of copyright is a thing of the past.
Yeah, you're right. The copyright office has ruled that AI created works are not eligible for copyright. That was a blow to the AI companies. So that is a little bit of "our revenge." Presumably that means if someone makes a movie or book with AI we could all use it to our hearts content without violating copyright. It also means, and artists should be aware of this, that if, for example, a writer uses AI to write parts of his work, those parts are technically not protected by copyright. Personally I think anything made with AI even a little bit should immediately be considered public domain. They may have violated are rights to create those system but they shouldn't also get copyright on top of that.
Diane something to consider is the explosion of AI copying artists art is actually making real art more valuable. I understand the fear but no robot can ever replace the essence of you. The artist is just as important as the art and too often we forget that. AI is like "stickers" or Temu Art. It is not something humans will pay thousands of dollars for. It will not become a part of their family legacy. There are things that are worth considering if you do return to the social media world that will help protect your digital identity online - I do think it is worthwhile to pay for verification on the social platforms. Its a marketing expense but comes with some impersonation protection. There are also apps coming out that glaze over images that distort them to the Ai - it does take extra steps and work but can be useful when sharing higher resolution images. I am sure more will be coming out soon as tech advances. Lastly - Social media is only one of the many ways artists can build awareness that they exist. the goal is to meet humans - either online or offline. In person exposure is just as valuable, if not more. We had a great interview last year with a young artist that makes most of his sales at shows. https://artists.boldbrush.com/p/samuel-hoskins-on-boldbrush-live He shared his approach and tips and he has been very successful.
Find the method that aligns with you, not out of fear but lean into your strengths and preferences and give it all you've got! Consistency is the common denominator for all successful artists, whether they lean into the social media approach or go all in for in person exposure, consistency is what leads to their eventual success. :)
I appreciate your perspective, Olya. I agree with your premise that the huge morass of AI-generated "art" will make human creation more valuable. I just kind of resent the assault on such a basic human drive - the drive to simply create, in a direct manner - and to be able to share the fruits of my labor with other people without layers of complication and the need for protection.
I’m interested in the details of the payment plan? Does the collector make all the payments for a year or so and then receive the artwork or does she arrange a payment plan and send the artwork out and trust that the collector will follow through on the payment plan?
We do have plans to introduce payment plays but that's not the service I mentioned in this post. What we have in mind is more like a sales assistant service to handle follow ups properly. Payment plans would probably happen through one of the pay later services so you would get paid everything up front.
Very good article!! I am very bad about following up after I post something so if that is something that FASO is thinking of helping artists with, I would definitely be interested in creating a website on FASO. I keep putting it off because I’m busy with other things, but that would be a wonderful perk and having a website with you.
What we had in mind isn't exactly that. What we have in mind is more like a service to respond to and follow up with people who contact you through your website so that sales aren't lost due to poor follow up practices.
I would gladly reply promptly to emails that come through FASO, but when I get a notification (and it says it's likely spam), I go to my mailbox and there is nothing there. It takes a few days to show up. As for AI, I use it a lot. It's just another tool for us. I was in a zoom meeting the other day, and was amazed at the professional summary and detailed notes that Gemini provided.
This sounds like our support team can help you. If you get a notification from us, then the message is for sure there already. If it says it's likely spam it'll be in the spam folder inside the messages section of your FASO account. If it's legit, you can move it to the inbox.
You are correct that AI is "just another tool." However, there is a thing about humans - our tools aren't inert. We create our tools, but our tools also shape us. People can't do basic math anymore because of calculators and computers. People can't spell as well because of spellcheck and google. Once humans invent a tool, we tend to offload our cognition/labor to the tool. That is fine. However it does have consequences on a societal level. AI is cognition--thinking, if you will. And we are already seeing younger people using AI to offload their THINKING. Why should I learn to read when AI can read it to me? Why should I learn discernment when AI can tell me what something means? These are real issues happening right now in high schools and colleges. People graduating who can't read above a sixth grade level. People who can't focus on one thing for more than a few seconds due to attention span degradation. This idea that our tools shape us is what Marshal McLuan wrote about in his famous work "The Medium IS the Message." So, it is true, AI can be used as "just" a tool, and that's how I use it. But it really is re-shaping the entire civilization since "the medium is the message" and many of the ways it is reshaping humanity may not be positive.
You are right though, it is good at summarizing. Just be careful with that for a couple of reasons - 1. AI has a way of writing things that sound profound but don't actually say anything important. I had to remove and rewrite those kinds of empty sentences in what it summarized out of Shana's talk with us. And 2. (this is the worse problem) it just flat out lies, and often, and lies with confidence. I have learned to ALWAYS do my own research if something AI told me is important. Just ask it about a topic you know really well some time to expose the lies. I will admit that Gemini seems slightly better at that than ChatGPT, but who is "better" changes all the time as the companies keep racing to beat each other.
Thank you so much for your comment, I didn't mean to write a book in response!
Thanks, Clint. Pretty sure I have checked all the folders, but I will raise a support ticket next time. As a professional accountant, we have to know how to do things manually, including tax returns. When I say AI is a tool, it does not relieve us of the responsibility of checking its output for validity or of knowledge of the subject. It has reshaped my process but not me.
I grow tired of substack quirks today. The article is good. The option for a payment plans sounds great. But exactly what are you offering behind the scenes for such a payment plan? There are many artist that do not display how much their art is. All the advice in this is great. Her work is beautiful and fun. Thank you for a another great read.
Yes, Substack is irksome sometime. We eventually plan to duplicate the features that drew us to Substack and move our writing back to our own platform so we can better solve such quirks. I've complained to them multiple times about some of the quirks and they don't seem interested in feedback.
I recently did a search for my name, plus "artist" and AI produced a paragraph on who I am, my education, description of my artwork, etc. It read smoothly and was fairly accurate..Amazingly, it borrowed most of the information from my online bio and website, so it's from content I've already hand-entered online.
When I'm writing creatively, I don't use AI to generate my content since that's a labor of love for me, but after reading how this article was developed, I'm thinking I could use it to generate an outline from my stream-of-consciousness approach of getting my thoughts down. Perhaps AI will just declare me insane in the early stages.
I have not used AI to generate images for my paintings. I've been tempted though. After reading more about how it works, I've firmly decided against it. I'll just have to use the skills I've developed over time and let the machine optimization slide. Facebook throws out AI images of my paintings every so often and asks me to post them. They look like cartoon/posters. Not unattractive, but not my style at all.
I've been wanting to listen to the original podcast with Shanna. I had no idea that she sells and markets her work directly. I'm fascinated by that. I've been noticing that other artists are making very good income by skipping the gallery model altogether. I'll have a listen to Shanna this afternoon! PS I didn't have time to edit this ;-)
AI for summarizing can be a good use, for organizing a bunch of random thoughts. Just make sure not to fall to the temptation to then use that as some kind of finished work. It is really good at writing things that, at first, you think "yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking!" And things that at first blush sound profound, but upon deeper reflection those things are often vacuous and empty. It's a sort of surface level glamour of profundity that quickly falls apart when you start digging in. I have used it mostly to brainstorm ideas as if I'm talking with Socrates or something but I always start fresh and do my own writing. The other way I've used it is to ask to it play the role of developmental editor and feed it an essay and ask for feedback. I don't alsways agree and don't always make the changes it suggests but it is helpful to spur thinking. ALso remember - these AIs are targetting pushing all writing toward a 6th grade level since, sadly, most americans can't read above that level. I, personally, will not water down my work to "explain it to a sixth grader." Some subjects require a higher level of writing and require work from the reader and that's fine with me, those are the readers I care about. I'm not saying not to use it, I'm just saying be careful not to full into its thrall. The people developing this stuff, despite their propaganda, aren't doing it for our good, so....just be discerning. But, with caution, it can be a useful tool.
All good points Clint. I'll need to read your reply a couple of times to get all you wanted me to 'hear'. Fortunately, I haven't used AI in my writing or my art. Like you, I consider writing to be a form of art (I think you see it that way).
I like what you say about not reducing the text to a 6th grade reading level... definitely something I never want to do.
Lately, Subtack is offering ways to produce video and podcast content. I understand why they're doing that. It's another form of communication. I had previously regarded Substack as one of the few writing platforms left, and that's how I intend to use it. I enjoy the quietness and pondering phases of writing more than anything, especially on paper with pen at first, then later online.
You offer very good advice here. I take it seriously.