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In this episode, we bring together a compilation of expert tips from seasoned artists on how to navigate the world of galleries. You'll hear insights on building strong relationships with gallery owners, creating a portfolio that stands out, and understanding what galleries look for in artists. Our guests also share their personal experiences on choosing the right gallery, working with both collectors and galleries, and how to maintain creative freedom while working within a gallery’s commercial framework. Whether you're new to the gallery scene or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with actionable advice.
Episodes mentioned:
61 Nanci France-Vaz
63 Noah Buchanan
79 William Schneider
81 Steve Atkinson
96 Stephanie Birdsall
89 Orlando Whitfield
90 Raul Campos
94 Karen Blackood
97 Elizabeth Robbins
99 Heather Arenas
101 Joseph Gyurcsak
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Transcript:
Stephanie Birdsall: 0:00
When I go into an A gal at a gallery, it is an immersive experience. Your relationship with your gallery
Heather Arenas: 0:06
is one that you nurture. You
Joseph Gyurcsak: 0:09
have to develop friendship. You have to have a gallery that really believes in you.
Steve Atkinson: 0:13
If you get into a gallery and the gallery owner says to you, well, we'll try you for a little bit, you know, send me a couple paintings and we'll see how it goes. You probably don't want to be in that gallery.
Laura Arango Baier: 0:26
Welcome to the boldbrush show, where we believe that fortune figures of boldbrush. Video is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists that also lead to their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. In this episode, we bring together a compilation of expert tips from seasoned artists on how to navigate the world of galleries. You'll hear insights on building strong relationships with gallery owners, creating a portfolio that stands out, and understanding what galleries look for in artists. Our guests also share their personal experiences on choosing the right gallery, working with both collectors and galleries, and how to maintain creative freedom while working within a gallery's commercial framework, whether you're new to the gallery scene or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with actionable advice.
Nanci France-Vaz: 1:23
Galleries is somebody else's business, and, you know, you're taking a chance that they are going to put you in front of their collectors. Some of the problems today that I see with, I think, in the 90s or turn of the 21st century, you know, there they were really good before the whole social media thing. And I think since social media came out, as a business owner myself, I kind of can feel for, you know, social media artists are able to sell on their own right now, but of course, they have to find the collectors. That's very difficult to do. I've done it, and I have done, you know, in the past year, I do have those collectors that have seen my work through Instagram, and so that's why I focus on Instagram, or I read about them, and then I went to an event that they were at and I didn't say anything to them. I just got to know them. And, you know, I became, I guess, very extroverted as I got older. I was more introverted when I was younger. And then after gymnastics, I would say, in my 30s, I started to come into my own. And then in my 40s, now I was selling. And so I found that you have to get along with people. You have to network by just becoming their friend. You have to build relationships. That's what business is all about. Build relationships, whether it's with a gallery, with a collector on Instagram. You know, some people just want people to like their work and follow them, but they never comment or like your work. There's a lot of people like that, so it's got to be reciprocal. You have to build relationships. Doesn't matter how many followers that person has. So I try to do that. I try to build relationships with some galleries, I felt like I wasn't ready, because I wanted to find my voice. Now I am so that's why I went with Dasha. When Ali asked me to do a solo show, I said, Ah, I'm out of inventory. I only have one thing too left, and I sold most of those on my own. But I do want to be in a gallery too, because I think both can be lucrative. If I am in a gallery and I'm assigned to a gallery, if I have a collector that goes to the gallery, you know, I always get the gallery 50% I don't undercut a gallery. I think that's wrong to do. Somebody asked me, you don't take 50% for your price? I go, No, absolutely not. I do exactly what my gallery would do if my gal, if it wasn't seen in my gallery, and it's my client, and I'm not represented by a gallery, I'm just a guest artist. I can sell my work on my own. There is no contract, right? So I do give them I start with 10% and you know, I won't give more than you know, some galleries that have asked me, Can you go 20% but I pet it enough so that I feel like, if I'm going to give up 50% then I'm still making money, especially if I have to ship it. So you gotta, it's very hard to do your homework. Find the right Gallery and the right galleries that really believes in you, that wants to sell you work well, you know, I think everybody's trying to figure out the the landscape and how to render that landscape for their business and and it's all good. I totally get it like social media. Changed everything. So they're trying to figure it out. You're trying to figure it out. I think being with the gallery, being my mother was a business owner. I'm a business owner. You know, if I had a staff, I would want them to be loyal to me. Absolutely. They absolutely have the right I'm definitely Pro Gallery, but you have to pick the right one that works for you. But there are some excellent galleries out there that have artists for a long time, and they have artists for a long time, and they always give them a solo show, and they do quite well with them. And those are the ones that you want to strive to be in that's the struggle of artists, whether they're younger or older. You could be older and breaking into the business. There's no such thing as age. Age is just the number. You know, you can develop work and be quite good at 80 years old. You don't have to start on your five it all depends on the time you put in. You have to look at me. I went on the hamster wheel, and I'm trying to catch up. And I think I'm there. I caught up to a certain extent. I wish I had 40 more years in this. Maybe I do. I don't know, but I think you have to try all of it and see what works the best. But I think having a a lot of different venues to try out. Is good a friend of mine. Francine Craig is a friend of mine, and, you know, she's done AI. I don't have any problem with that, as long as they're not saying it, it's a painting. You know, they should have their own venue and be able to sell their work, they're artists too, but I tend to like traditional work. And she goes into auctions, and I said, Oh, really? She said, Oh, it's a low price point. I said, Well, maybe I could do studies that are like six by nine or eight by 10, like realism live. I put this little, small five by five inch painting at their auction because I was part of the faculty this year, and it's sold, and I've had it for a few years now, you know, I'm like, Oh, why didn't I think of doing that? You know? So you never know. You gotta try everything. If that doesn't work, try something else. Put that painting somewhere. Maybe it'll hit that collector base, right? The
Noah Buchanan: 7:21
big question is, how am I going to all kinds of things, how am I going to support myself? How am I going to get my work out there? That's a big one. And of course, what we've been talking about, you know, what should I paint? Sometimes, that is a big question for somebody, you know, they've acquired all this skill in their training, and then what do they paint and and sometimes there's not a lot of room in there for variation to to paint and be unique, you know, and stand out from your peers in a special way. So for me, I left, I left graduate school, and I started to teach right away, and the income that that brought in really bought me time in the studio to start to explore and not all of it is very glorious, like I'll say, My first years out of grad school, I really wanted to secure a gallery and to have a relationship with a gallery, and to have the gallery like me and be in support of my work. And so I found that what was sort of safe and sanctioned by a lot of galleries, was to paint still life. And I don't think there's any shame in painting still life at all. And I, and I, honestly, I love painting still life, and I did so for many years, and I think I'm really good at it. I did a lot of still life when I first got out of graduate school. This is, I'm getting into the answer here, and I would, I would show those in galleries and they would sell. I think that painting still life for a gallery is a great way to really push yourself in your your skills, your chops, your the technical aspects of your painting, because you can try out all kinds of subject matter. I mean, of course, you know, you start with bowls of fruit, but you might find yourself painting really challenging things, you know, like a big tangle of branches or something or drapery that's, you know, knotted and tangled and convoluted with other things wrapped up in it. And you could really challenge yourself with all the different kinds of subject matter that can be painted and and test yourself in that regard. And of course, you have a lot of time and space and privacy to do that when you paint still life, you can take all the time you want to sit in front of that still life table and no one's looking over your shoulder. Her. There's no model waiting to take a break, or, you know, to be paid and so forth. So still, life was a good friend of mine as an early painter, and I think that that ended up spilling out into painting interiors, you know, painting hallways and rooms and looking through doorways into kitchens with beautiful light and space. And there's a wonderful tradition of interiors where there are no figures, and yet they're full of mood and feeling, and they really test the painters ability to paint light and space and perspective and atmosphere. I did a lot of interiors, you know. And somewhere along the way, I think I found stability, you know. I think fairly early on, I found stability in a combination of teaching and painting still life. I will say that I knew that the whole time I was really pleasing the gallery I showed with John Pence gallery in San Francisco for 14 years, and John was a wonderful dealer. He's still alive, but he's retired now in his 80s, and wonderful support and dealer, and had an incredible gallery in San Francisco full of a lot of contemporary realists that are still working. And it was a wonderful community, too. But John really wanted me to paint a lot of still life. And he would often tell his newer painters that were just joining the stable of artists at the gallery. He'd say, I want you to paint new show of 30 still lives. And they can be small, but I want, I want them, you know, all to be very cohesive, similar lightings. I want you to frame them all the same way, and we'll give you your first solo show. And I think that was a formula that worked for a lot of painters. I think they they were able to kind of enter the scene with something that seemed really well unified and coordinated, and its appearance, a lot of it would sell, and that would sound good to the world that this painter is selling. But I, you know, pretty quickly after doing that, I felt that this is not what I dreamed for myself. You know, what did I dream about doing? And, of course, you know, I looked I thought about painters that really excited me, and those were Velasquez and Caravaggio and Odd Nerdrum and membo Bartlett and Vincent desiderio. These were painters that I saw their work that were doing large paintings with multiple figures that had a narrative of some kind, and that's what really made me go through all the training and the study, and I thought that I'm going to do that one day. I think it's important for an artist to call to call it when they feel like they've kind of had that transitional period out of school solidified, what kind of techniques they use, how they paint, what their paintings kind of look like, the palette they use. Are they direct painters? Are they indirect painters? To me, you know, do they just do mostly hollow prima? Do they like to do a lot of glazing? They have to figure that stuff out. And I think that can be done in that sort of fledgling period when you leave the nest of the art school, you know, it's and that's why, still, life is a great thing. But there, there's an important moment to stop being the fledgling and really start to soar high, you know, like that was the goal is, I wanted to soar way up there in the clouds, if we're using a bird analogy, leaving the nest, and that can be scary too. Because you wonder, Am I going to stop selling? Are the galleries going to start to kind of not want to show my work because they're bigger and they don't they might be weird, they might be scary. They might they might embrace grotesque theme. Um, galleries start to go, ah, about that. You know that that challenge that the artist can face as they start to leave that fledgling stage of being an artist, a new artist, and start to move into their more mid career, maybe they might find that if they're being true to themselves in the artwork, they want to make that really what inspired them in the first Place, they might also find it's not easy to sell or to show and there's a trade off there. And and hopefully you you've got the stability financially that maybe you can afford not to sell a little bit while your work goes through this, this new out of coming out of a cocoon phase where you're really going to be the more mature painter that you will become. And there's big trade offs, because while you're you're really nurturing your dream and your vision, and you're following that passion that you always saw for yourself, you might also be suffering in other ways. You know. All the things I mentioned, not selling galleries, maybe treating you with a little bit of an aversion, because your work is big and takes up a lot of wall space. If you make big paintings that take up a lot of wall space, galleries, and I don't blame them, they're not really going to like that, because they have very expensive rents to pay. You know, I can sympathize with a gallery in New York City or San Francisco or Los Angeles. They have to have a space in a very affluent part of town with a lot of traffic so that people will see the work. They need to be available to clients that have a lot of money, that are interested in collecting artwork. They have very challenging rents. You know, if we could see those figures, we would kind of be horrified. And then, when you present them with the idea of showing a large, challenging painting of yours that has, you know, things that are not necessarily pleasant or happy to put on your wall at home that take up the entire wall of that room in the gallery. They're going to sort of be nervous because there goes their rent for the month. You know, whereas if you give them 30, still lives, they're pretty happy, because even if they sell 10 of those, then they're okay, they're in good shape. So that's the, that's the that is some tricky territory for the fledgling artist becoming the mature painter to have to navigate. And that's kind of, maybe that's where I find myself nowadays. You know, it's, it's embracing the work that I really wanted to do, and doing it, and feeling good about that, but understanding that it's going to be harder to show my work because of its size, these paintings behind me are are much more moderately sized. They're like, around 40 inches square, ish, you know, or in that than that, in that size range. But, you know, I just completed a painting that's nine feet tall by seven feet wide, and that's that's hard to exhibit, you know, and it's also hard to find a home for it. Even if I've found the past couple paintings I've done that have been that scale, a lot of people do want them, but the reality is, they can't fit them in their houses, apartments, or even if they can, this has been a real, real Heartbreaker, even if they can fit them in their apartments. If, let's say, you have an affluent collector in New York City who wants to own your large painting, and they can fit it in their apartment they live in, you know, an older, pre war Upper East Side apartment in Manhattan, and there actually is no freight elevator and the stairwell. You
William Schneider: 17:48
don't want to compete on price anyway. And artists, I know how they think, they think, oh, you know, the gallery sells my work for three grand, but I only get 1500 because they charge 50% commission. If I sell it correctly, I can sell it for 2000 I'm still making more wrong. You've now, if somebody could pay 2000 for a painting that's being sold for three why would they buy the 3000 so you've just destroyed your own pricing. It's like as if Coca Cola would undercut the grocery stores. If you buy directly from us, you know, a six pack of coke is 82 cents. Well, then the grocery stores are going to quit carrying them, you know, and then, and then they've just lowered their pricing, you know. Why would you do that?
Steve Atkinson: 18:36
One of the tips that I will give out, that I have realized was that if you get into a gallery and the gallery owner says to you, well, we'll try you for a little bit, you know, send me a couple paintings and we'll see how it goes. You probably don't want to be in that gallery, because you're just going to be a place hanger until one of their other artists that they like better comes along. What you want, what you want is the gallery owner that says, I love your work. I would love you to be in the gallery. You know, send me your work, and you're going to sell so much more work through them, if the gallery owner or the people who are selling really love what you're doing, because you can't hide that, and you can't fake it. You know, I've been in galleries before where, you know, it was just that trial period, and it never really worked out. The best gallery experiences I've had are the people who just really know who you are. First of all, rather than saying I'm so and so, and my work is over here, let's go look at it. If you say I'm so and so, and they say, Oh yeah, okay. And you know, I love your work. And. Really mean it. Those are the people that you want trying to sell your work. And it's, it's worth it. Wait until you get that kind of a reaction from somebody than just saying, Okay, well, I'm going to go into this frame shop Gallery, and we'll hope for the best. You know, that's, that's never the best way to do it. So find the people who love your work and nurture those relationships, because they're not only going to sell your work, they're going to introduce you to other gallery owners that will sell your work. And it's that whole relationship thing that we've been talking about.
Stephanie Birdsall: 20:35
Okay, first of all, I think galleries are very valid, and the reason I think they're valid is just like a painting, when you walk in, you experience a painting, a sculpture, whatever it is, in person, so you get to actually react to it. And I I actually sell a lot online, and I love online, but when I go into an A gal at a gallery, it is an immersive experience. And a photograph, to me, never completely describes the painting, the edges, the color, it's not really accurate. You can get a good enough feeling for it. The other interesting thing with galleries is that you reach new people you never know. First of all, if we're online, someone's got to be following us or see us through a recommendation or a podcast or this or that. One of my favorite galleries is a loom West in Phillipsburg, Montana. I'm in a still life show there right now. I don't really know anyone from Phillipsburg, Montana. I don't know the people that are going into her gallery now, maybe they'll see me on her website. But I have sold from people who don't to people that don't know me, that walk in and love a painting. I think the paintings need to be in galleries as well, so that they're speaking to the world. I mean, there are emissaries. When my painting goes to Gallery, a little bit of me is going there and they're meeting me. So I think galleries are very valid. And to me, the best galleries work very hard for their clientele, and I do not mind paying them a commission. They're working for it. They're paying the overhead. I think a lot of them used to advertise and print more, but they all have online presences, and I know as a person that I can show you a painting and talk to you about it and potentially educate you enough that you want to buy it that doesn't happen when you just look online. A good gallery person can tell you about the painting, tell you something about the artist, create a romance and a story about it. So I think galleries are valid. I do think there are galleries that are better for us than others, and a lot of that has to do with the type of painting that we're putting out there. You know, for me, to put a snow scene in a beach gallery is unlikely to relate to anyone unless they're what are they called, snow birds that come down in the winter to someplace. So I think you have to look at the type of gallery that you're putting your work in. My very first gallery was a Contemporary Gallery, and I put in my, you know, representational, figurative sort of stuff. I didn't sell anything, but I was happy to be in there, so I didn't care, you know, it's just great to be in a gallery, but that was not the right gallery for me, so I advise people to find a gallery that sells work that relates to what they do. I'm not saying that if you do landscapes, you want to be in an all landscape gallery, but you don't want to be a representational landscape painter and go into a crazy Contemporary Gallery, your work's probably gonna look funny, so think about where you're going in. But I also think I've had people go into a gallery, okay, my one of my other galleries that I've been in a long time that I love is Susan Powell in Madison, Connecticut, and she has my work in the show right now. When I first met Susan, I was in Vermont painting with Putney painters. I was only doing pastels, and she said at the time, it's long time ago, I don't really work with pastels, but I like this painting. I'll take it while she sold it in two hours, because the painting spoke to someone, and it happened to be a good pastel. So you just don't know, but you want to have your gallery believe in you. I think that's the very most important thing. If your gallery owner and sales people connect with what you're doing, they can talk about it for you. They can sell it, but you. I want them to love you and your work, yeah, so that's what I would look for.
Laura Arango Baier: 25:07
Yeah, they have to be your number one fan, aside from, you know, one's one's mother or significant other. But, yeah, that's very good point. You know, we're just in such a strange sort of time now where it is very easily possible to sell work online. And some people even shy away from galleries, or even say, Oh no, they take 50% of my money. Like, why would I do that without remembering that? You know, this gallery does have a list of collectors, and that's one of the things you're really paying for with that commission. And, like you said, overhead, and they even ship the painting. Oftentimes it's their own cost. So I mean, there's a lot that goes into it, and there is value. And I completely
Stephanie Birdsall: 25:52
agree, and not all galleries take 50% most of my galleries are 40. There you go. But I sell on both I do a lot of times when I sell online, it's someone that knows my work. They've collected me in the past, or they've seen my work in galleries. They're familiar with my work. And those are usually the people, not all the time, but they're usually the people that I sell online to you, so they have a familiarity of my work in person, not all the time, but they know a little bit about what they're getting,
Laura Arango Baier: 26:26
right, right? Do they? But they don't buy directly from you. Do they do, but you just direct them to the gallery. Or, how do you how do you handle that with the gallery?
Stephanie Birdsall: 26:35
If I've promised something to a gallery, I absolutely run it through the gallery. If it's someone that that has seen my work in the gallery, the gallery's part of it. If it's someone that's bought me cold online, I will sell direct. But when somebody asks me if I have worked for sale, I usually list my galleries. I don't want to lose galleries. I really don't. I think they serve an exciting purpose of connecting people who may know nothing about art to art. We need them. Yeah, most people that I can't say most people. So many people buy on impulse. You know, it's an impulse buy. They see a painting, they love it, they take it home. If they don't get in your studio or accidentally See you online, how are they going to find you? So I think all ways of marketing are valid. I have sold directly, but it's usually someone that has come out of the blue or someone that's known me and collected me in the past. I sell a lot through my students, sometimes to their families, right? But they buy from galleries too. You know, I'm equal opportunity at boldbrush.
Laura Arango Baier: 28:04
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Stephanie Birdsall: 29:44
I would never be quite so direct in telling an artist that, you know, paint me three more or blue ones, because, you know, for example, now that most. Of our world is, you know, it's on this. It's on the phone, right? And most works that you know, one sells to, you know, the gallery sell to collectors are seen initially on a screen. This is your first impression, which, you know, I mean, this is really only in the last, let's say, 15 years of the art market has this been true. What? But most collectors first impressions of work they buy is on, is on a screen the size of their hand and and the way that, particularly iPhone screens. And, you know, I tend to many people in the art market who have Android phones, but Android phones may be completely different, but the iPhone is for I don't understand the technology or the reasoning why, but it's it. It shows blue better than any other color. And so blue paintings have historically since. They have been since the iPhone, since the advent of the iPhone, and this like, especially like selling art on Instagram and putting it blue art sells more work with blue in it, right? There's been articles about this. I mean, you know, maybe everyone's just kind of over it now, but I'm fascinated by that idea. And so, you know, I used to, and I used to have clients who would say, Oh, but I really want that blue one. Everyone always wanted the blue one. There was like, particular shows where the and I could have gone to the artists and say, You paint me three more blue ones. But I would never do that. But I certainly have been in a position where, you know, I've been in conversation with an artist about doing a show, and I've gone to the studio and they've made it, you know. Say I was looking at like, you know, say there was a, you know, an artist who was mostly working, mostly making paintings, and I thought I loved the paintings, and I could sell the paintings, right? And then I and then, you know, six months later, the artist says, oh, you know, I've been working on some stuff, and I'm feeling good about the work. And do you want to come and see? It's a bit of a departure. And you go there and they're making, you know, black, sticky sculptures. He's just like, I can't sell these. It's a totally so at that point, yes, I would get involved. Because, I mean, you know, if you're wealthy enough to do this for love, then then go for it. It's mostly love, but you still have to keep the lights on. You know, we've all Yeah, so no, I would never have have, I would never have had such a direct conversation. But there are ways that you can make it clear that if you know days, you say you know this. If you're lucky enough to be in a position where making art is your is putting bread on the table, you better you know, you better be up for a conversation with the person who's going to be doing the selling for you, because they know. You know in the same way that you know when I was writing my book, I have not, you know, I can write, but I can't write a book. I've never done that before, and so when my editor made lots of suggestions about the first draft and the second draft, I listened to my editor, and I allow and I trusted that they have my best interests at heart. I think, yeah, if someone's telling you make more blue paintings, they probably don't have their best interests at heart, but by all means, make big, black, sticky sculptures. It's just very few people are going to sell
Raul Campos: 33:48
them. Okay? This is very complex, but the price of a painting is based on really nothing, right? Like a stock, it's based on the demand, right? So it gets higher and but so galleries, and many people are, like, very afraid of giving like, a huge percentage to the gallery, because they take like half of your money, right? But then if you go back and you think, okay, but this thing I'm doing doesn't really have a value, these guys are going to create a value for it, and then they're gonna sustain the value. Because if they ask someone you know this gallery says the prices is, it's very important for your career to have, like, a good gallery. And yeah, but yeah, I mean, there's definitely not, not much, just just work and always try to be responsible. Don't go behind the galleries, back very essential things, because it happens in it. Clients are always like, no, no, I'm going to go to your studio and I'm going to pay you like but let's do it outside of the gallery, because that way you know deeper. But I'm like, oh, because if I do that, I'm going to. Iron my other collectors, right? Because you're gonna be paying less than they are, and that's not fair. Like sometimes, I always try to keep, like, very ethical pricing, and that's why I've been able to work with a lot of galleries, because one of a couple of monologs was because I tried to be very honest with I mean, it's just that, if it's just okay, but it's a business, in a way. I mean, I love painting, and I love what I paint, but in a way, I also know it's a business that is both of them, yeah, like, you're like a construction worker, but you're also there. I'll still,
Karen Blackwood: 35:40
I think the best avenue is definitely social media. You know, if I'm honest, and my galleries, I have one local that I've gotten lot of students who've seen my work there. You know, buyers from the gallery. I would say social media, though, got me the gallery gets me so that, I think has been my biggest thing. And I joined the American Society marine artist. And I think the museum tours gets my work seen in different parts of the country. And, you know, that's a cool thing. But, yeah, I would say social media is, is what a tool, you know, for an artist, I think it's a it's almost, you almost say, ah, do we really need galleries? Because we can do it on social media, but I do get a lot from my galleries that I couldn't get on social media because they're the ones that work for you. There are, you know, a handful of galleries that are just gold. You know, you you know the difference between a gallery that's working for you and a gallery you know that just, you know, hangs your work, but they're not putting that extra work in for you. And I think they still earn their, you know, their percentage. It's like, I think in the old days, galleries used to be the ones that got you, the magazine articles got you you know, known, and got your name out there. I think social media does that now, but a good gallery is still a sales source and builds. They are wonderful at building collectors and I love there's one gallery I can visit more often, and they are so good at engaging young collectors, which I love seeing that because just gives me chills. The thought that you know, young people are showing an interest in collecting original work. Because for a while I worried that, oh my god, the poster thing that we see sometimes in decorating, or, you know, that we're going to lose that love of original work. But no, I'm seeing a lot of young collectors, you know, really show an interest and understand the difference between what a poster would do in your place versus a piece of original work, the kind of life that's in that work. There's an energy, well, hopefully, yeah, artists are trying to put that energy into the work. So I think it's nice that young collectors are, you know there, I think the future is good for artists. We're good.
Elizabeth Robbins: 38:45
Well, I think it's important to search out galleries that carry like paintings or like artists. And not that you want to go into a gallery that has 10 still life artists, but you want to, you want to search out galleries that I'm very much a representational artist. So I wasn't going to go to a very contemporary art gallery and say, Hey, carry my work. I'm really different. They're not going to like my work. So I think it's important to, you know, find that gallery that fits your style, and find a gallery that doesn't have 10 still life artists already, and I think it's also really important that you establish a that you are unique, that you are that your work is recognizable as you, and that you're not just a copy of somebody else, or you're just painting the kind of the Same flair as somebody else. I think that's really important for a professional artist, is to establish your own unique voice in your paintings, because if they already carry three or four artists that paint like x, and you paint like X, you're not, they're not going to take you on. But if you're you're y, and nobody. Else paints like, why? Then, you know, you have a better chance of getting into galleries or being seen and having collectors say, Oh, wow, I really like this artist, if that makes sense. Well,
Heather Arenas: 40:12
first, I will say that your relationship with your gallery is one that you nurture, and my galleries are a partner with me, like we are both going for a good common cause. They want to make money, I want to make money, and so we're going to work together to make that happen. And I think that there are a lot of people who are like, Oh, the galleries are trying to do me wrong, and that's just not the case. They just, they want to help you as much as help themselves. So it's definitely a partnership. And so we discuss, you know, whether or not they are willing to give me a collector's name, and am I going to go around them to go sell directly to that collector? Heck, no, you know, I mean, I have a understanding with my galleries that I won't undercut them. I won't knock the sale out from underneath of them. Any collector that is connected with the gallery, I'm going to run that sale right through the gallery. So because it benefits me just as much, this is a long term relationship. So that being said, one of the things that I do is, if I know that I am going to deliver work, which the two galleries that I have right now are within driving distance, so I will drive my work to the gallery, and ahead of time, I'll send out a newsletter that basically says I'm going To be at the gallery on this date, and I would love to meet up, come and meet me at the gallery, and we can talk about this piece, you know. And so I've met a few collectors that way who've either already bought my work or have been dying to see the work in person, and they met me there, and we forged a relationship together. And that in person thing is just wonderful, and I tried to do that as much as possible. Now, I have collectors in England, in France, you know? I mean, I'm not going to get to meet every collector or person, but I love it when they engage with me, and so I will, sometimes, I'll post a photo of the painting, say, sold online on one of my social media sites, and then the collector will come forth and say, Oh, it was me that bought it. And I'm like, great. This is wonderful. Then I have a conversation that I can engage with them and find out a little bit more why they like the piece, a little bit more about them, and so I'm just always open to the conversation, I guess. And to that end, I send out a newsletter once a month or more, and I tried to post on my Instagram page two to three times a week. And yeah, I'm just me. I'm not nearly as polished as a lot as the a lot of the people who post on Instagram and all the videos that they're doing now, I'm like, I try, I do the best that I can, but I am what I am,
Laura Arango Baier: 43:18
no and honestly, the efforts that you're putting in are definitely paying off, right? Because I love that idea of, Oh, hey guys, I'm going to be at the gallery this day, and I'd love to meet any of you who collected my work. That's That's awesome. Because, yeah, oftentimes I have met artists who are, I guess, since there's that relationship with the gallery, right, and the gallery doesn't always share who your collector is, you might as well just like, put your foot out there and be like, hey, you know what? I invite you guys to hang out, literally at the place where you bought my work, or want to buy my work. And that feels a lot more safe. And I don't know. I'm trying to quote, unquote, steal those exact collectors out from the gallery,
Heather Arenas: 43:55
yeah, well, and I'll work with the gallery, and they invite people to come and see me too, you know? So if they know somebody who has been interested in my work, they will specifically call them up and say, Heather's going to be there on such and such a date, you know? And then we coordinate a time, and I get there, you know? I'm not, I'm not a flaky artist in that I do what I say I'm going to do, I show up. That's 90% of the game, right? It's just show up and then do the work. So Exactly, yeah, it works out really well, though, to have that kind of partnership and understanding with the gallery, yes,
Laura Arango Baier: 44:32
and that goes a long way. Like you said, I know there are artists out there who don't work with galleries, and they do well, and there are artists out there who exclusively work with galleries, and they also do well. And I love mentioning that because, like I said earlier, too, there's so many avenues, there are so many ways, especially with the internet, that it all works out. And I like that you mentioned, you know, also nurturing that connection with the gallery, because they are there. Like you said, it's a mutual benefit, you know, they help themselves and they help you, and vice versa. You. Um, and maintaining that relationship with the gallery is so important, and also one that supports you, like you said, like, if you have a gallery that sees that, okay, this artist wants to go in her own way, and we're welcoming that like we want that. We don't want them to be, like, pigeonholed as well, because some galleries do that. Um, that's really great. That's like, gold, right, right, well. And, I
Heather Arenas: 45:21
mean, I think that some galleries do that with artists who are a little bit more, I guess that tells it all right. Sometimes you do have to kind of narrow down your subject matter a little bit in that, you know, I don't paint. I paid the occasional still life just for a warm up kind of thing, but I usually don't do any landscapes that don't have people in them, mountains, trees and streams are done really well by other people. Why do I need to do it? So my body of work is generally the same. It's figurative work. But there are artists who want to paint it all, and they're kind of trying to find themselves. And so sometimes I think galleries are like, you do this really well. What if you stuck with that one thing and wrote it out for a while? And I can't fault them for that, because maybe they see something in an artist that the artist doesn't see themselves, you know. And so I guess that kind of happened with my museum series too, because I had a couple of galleries that were like, we like what you're doing there, and the collectors are really responding. And so I was given the freedom to explore it, and that's what I mean by they kind of let me go wild, but I'm still going wild within a context. You
Joseph Gyurcsak: 46:48
have to develop friendship. You have to have a gallery that really believes in you don't just try to be in a gallery where you say, Please, can I get in your gallery? That's the wrong position to go. And you need to be in places where they say, Yeah, I believe in this work. And because if they believe in it, they're going to sell it, because they at the end of the day, when somebody walks in the gallery, remember The Gallerist or the gallery director, those are the people that are going to speak about you. So they have to know you. They have to believe you. You have to develop a relationship. You only need one good gallery. You don't need a 1020, of them. I mean, I know some artists had that, but really, you have to have that sincere relationship connection to yeah, sometimes the galleries don't share who the collectors that bought it. Sometimes they do that depends on the relationship and how that goes. But if you do have a collector that buys from you straight up direct, because I sell things on Instagram or, you know, through my website, or if somebody comes around and says, I bought this from the gallery. Always make sure that you send out some sort of Thank you, and that's really a good thing, like, Thank you for supporting me and my fam. I we send out an A note, like a card, and it says, Thank you for supporting me and my fam, my journey, my family this and that people have to know how much that means that you know you invested in me and gave me. I used to make a joke, but I and people would think I'm really serious. To say, yeah, if I don't tell pain this month, my my wife said, I can't paint anymore, really, oh my god, yes, I need to sell, you know. But aside from all the joking, yes, you you're supporting somebody's journey, you know. And you know, back in the day, if you read the old art books, they would have like what you call a sponsor, like somebody sponsoring you to be an artist? Well, yeah, artists need to make money like everybody else. So when you find those people that do support you, let them know. You know how much that means. Just a little note to them or something to keep them in the loop. I'm not that great on my website for doing the newsletters. But I, when I just finished a workshop in Belgium, the artist really said, I said, I don't want to bug people all the time with a newsletter this say, well, even if you do it four times a year, so I'm actually going to do that based on the feedback I got from this workshop, I'm going to try to do a newsletter every quarter, at least. Because I think I didn't realize that they were telling me they want to hear what I'm doing. So I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm going to do it. We're going to do it. Yeah. So there's a goal right there that I'm. Going to do that I haven't been doing. You know, make adjustments. Everything we were talking about. You hear something, hey, that's to your advantage. If people are giving you feedback and it's positive, you have to do something, right? You.
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