--
Learn the magic of marketing with us here at FASO!
https://www.boldbrushshow.com/
Get over 50% off your first year on your artist website with FASO:
https://www.FASO.com/podcast/
Join our next FASO Show Live!
https://register.faso.com/live-guest
--
On today’s episode we sat down with James McGrew, a landscape oil painter and longtime interpretive Yosemite park ranger whose representational landscapes and wildlife paintings blend rigorous scientific understanding with a deep emotional commitment to environmental education. James shares how a lifelong bond with Yosemite and early encouragement from teachers and family pushed him toward a career in representational painting, even when art schools favored abstraction. He explains how studying biology, geology, chemistry, and environmental education deepened his understanding of light, landforms, and ecosystems, making his landscapes more convincing and meaningful. James describes his dual life as a full-time painter and seasonal Yosemite interpretive ranger, using both roles to connect people emotionally and intellectually to the natural world. He emphasizes the power of working from life, developing visual memory, and truly knowing one’s subject—whether it’s a cliff face, endangered owl, or peregrine falcon. Over time his motivation has shifted from personal inspiration to a clear conservation mission: using art as a vehicle to advocate for fragile ecosystems and endangered species. He also advises aspiring artists to be true to themselves, spend time in nature, focus on long-term perseverance, and on building real human connections—with collectors, galleries, and fellow artists—rather than chasing awards or trends. J Finally, James tells us about his upcoming solo show at the Ansel Adams Gallery in Yosemite (opening May 4), as well as group shows including the California Art Club Gold Medal Exhibition, the Art Renewal Center Salon in New York, and invitational events at Grand Canyon and Zion later this year.
James’ FASO site:
jamesmcgrewfineart.com/
James’ Social Media:
facebook.com/jamesmcgrewfineart/
instagram.com/jamesmcgrewfineart/
---
Transcript:
James McGrew: 0:00
I had people in my life that were really important in my life, my partner telling me like she’s saying, like, you gotta, you gotta just forget about what you’re chasing. You know, forget about the sales, forget about the awards, just just paint and and it’s absolutely true and I but I had to come up with it on my own terms and get to that point all on my own eventually, even though I knew what to do and people were telling me, but once I actually hit that point and just didn’t care what happened anymore, what I received, what sold, and I just painted from my heart what was really important through my work. And, you know, getting those those rewards were, I guess, just sort of a recognition that that was the right direction.
Laura Arango Baier: 0:42
Welcome to the FASO podcast, where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I’m your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. On today’s episode, we sat down with James McGrew, a landscape oil painter and longtime interpretive Yosemite Park Ranger whose representational landscapes and wildlife paintings lent rigorous scientific understanding with a deep emotional commitment to environmental education. James shares how a lifelong bond with Yosemite and early encouragement from teachers and family pushed him toward a career in representational painting, even when art schools favored obstruction. He explains how studying biology, geology, chemistry and environmental education deepened his understanding of light, landforms and ecosystems, making his landscapes more convincing and meaningful. James describes his dual life as a full time painter and a seasonal Yosemite interpretive ranger, using both roles to connect with people, emotionally and intellectually to the natural world. He emphasizes the power of working from life, developing visual memory and truly knowing one subject, whether it’s a cliff face endangered owl or peregrine falcon. Over time, his motivation has shifted from personal inspiration to a clear conservation mission, using art as a vehicle to advocate for fragile ecosystems and endangered species. He also advises aspiring artists be true to themselves, spend time in nature, focus on long term perseverance and on building real world, human connections with collectors, galleries and fellow artists, rather than chasing awards or trends. Finally, James tells us about his upcoming solo show at the Ansel Adams Gallery in Yosemite, opening may 4 as well as group shows, including the California Art Club Gold Medal exhibition, the art renewal center salon in New York, and Invitational events at Grand Canyon and Zion later this year. Welcome James to the FASO podcast. How are you today?
James McGrew: 2:47
Thank you. It’s wonderful to be here. I’m doing well.
Laura Arango Baier: 2:50
Thank you. I’m excited to have you. Yes, I’m excited to have you because your work is beautiful and it is so authentic. How much you love nature, which, of course, we will touch so much more on where that stems from. But I’m very excited to have you to be able to pick your brain about your work and your inspiration and how you are a multi disciplinary person, which is really awesome because you have so many things to pull from. But before we dive into all of that good stuff, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?
James McGrew: 3:23
Sure, so I My name is James McGrew. I’ve been a full time professional artist for about 30 years, and for about 25 summer seasons. I was an interpretive park ranger in Yosemite as well, seasonally for about a couple months each summer. And so whether I’m doing my painting or photography or video work or writing or having done, you know, programs, presentations, or teaching a workshop, one hour workshop, or a photography workshop, it’s really kind of all the same thing. I think of myself as an environmental educator. So it’s all just different ways of using different vehicles for communication to connect people with the places that I love.
Laura Arango Baier: 4:08
Yes, yeah. And you know that goes back to the you are an absolute nature lover. I think, I don’t think I’ve ever met someone as involved and as enthusiastic, motivated to really dive into the importance of conservation and environmentalism and nature and also be a phenomenal artist. I think that’s one of the coolest things. You’re welcome. So I wanted to ask you, too, because you’ve always had this love of nature, when did you begin to follow the path of the artist?
James McGrew: 4:44
That’s that’s tough to say, because it was so early that I don’t remember a lot of things really well back then, I’ve come across some photos of me at the dining room table with watercolors painting when I was, like, four years old. If. I do remember getting in trouble in school and math class around third grade frequently for drawing Yosemite drawing, kind of all the time so. And then when I was eight years old, my aunt gave me a set of pastels, soft pastels, and and then another friend of our family, about a year later, another much bigger set of Rembrandt soft pastels, and then my dad gave me oils that he had the from college when I was 10. So it’s been as long as I can remember, really, but that’s just the actual act of painting, drawing. The bigger part of that the deep resource that I draw upon, the inspiration for all the artwork, is just my connection with nature. And that goes back even further. So when I was four months old, my parents first took me backpacking in Yosemite, not with a pack of my back. You know, I was the backpack, but they have photos of me and in Yosemite National Park in the back country, and they said I was just enthralled with my eyes wide open and my mouth open, just looking up at the cliffs. And I don’t quite remember that trip some reason, but I do remember a few years later, about six to eight years old, and one really important trip when I was eight years old for my birthday, and we were backpacking in hecheschi and the northwestern part of Yosemite, and that was a record snowpack year, with massive snow melt in late June, with the waterfalls raging and thundering. And it just had such a vivid impact on me, emotionally, mentally, and I can still remember it. Fact, I remember getting in trouble in school, drawing from that trip just behind the waterfalls, they were so big, you know, later on, so the next year in school. So I think that background the art path is just it’s been there for a really long time.
Laura Arango Baier: 6:54
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Would you say that your I guess, desire to turn it into more of a career. Was that something that started or, you know, like maybe early as well, like when you were maybe in high school, or was that like later down the line?
James McGrew: 7:13
Well, you know, it was always there. As long as I can remember, there were times that I thought about it and things. But of course, there’s always the thing that you hear from so many people, starving artists. You can’t make a living as an artist. And so on my I have to credit my my family, for tremendous amount of support and always encouraging me, and also a lot of teachers along the way. And I remember my sixth grade art teacher, she told my parents at a teacher parent conference like, you know, I normally tell students don’t plan to make a career as an artist, but you really should encourage your son to do so. And so they did, and they told me that, which, you know, I so I think, you know, it’s really, I have to give a lot of credit to other people for helping steer that path. I mean, I’ve always had that energy and that notion, but when I was in high school. I didn’t quite know what it was that I really want to do. I painted all the time, and was always studying work and and then when I went to look into going to college, actually, for my high school senior project, we had to do something that would be a legitimate career. And at that time, I was I loved art, I loved nature, and I loved bonsai, which is a form of art with, you know, potted small trees. And so I thought, well, it could incorporate all these things together. And I thought, well, landscape architecture, perhaps. So I did a thing on that at the time, just a little kind of interlude. And I think part of that had to do with my art teacher and my sophomore or junior year who asked me to use a certain technique with pastels in a painting, and I demonstrated with demos that I was able to do it, and I did it, and then I did it in parts of that painting. But I really wanted to kind of follow my own voice and my own heart and some things that I’ve been playing with pastel since I was eight years old, and I didn’t see the way she was trying to get me to paint as being really the way that I see and experience the world. And there are some areas that, when we look at stuff that you know, there’s high detail and sharp edges and texture, and the other areas that are kind of blurry, and I was trying to paint that way, and some areas I was smudging, and other areas I was leaving sharp. And she just wanted the whole thing to be kind of, you know, sketchy with the pastels, without ever being able to blur any areas I’m like. So I did some spots that way, and then I left other areas softer, and I intentionally smudged other areas and softened edges. And she gave me a D on the painting, and it was the only time I had not gotten an A on a painting. And she says, I did this to teach you a lesson. And she goes, You didn’t listen to the instructions. And but then when we had the end of the year art show, she had it hung front and center in the entryway to the entire school as the showpiece. So I got really kind of confused with that. And but then it really kind. Sunk in that, yes, you do have to listen to your instructors, but it also kind of backfired. It made me even more entrenched in how important it is to follow my own voice, and it just it didn’t feel right to do somebody else tell me do with my artwork, because my artwork is an expression of me and how I feel and how I interpret the world, and so still super valuable experience, and so kind of an important, you know, moment there, but that, I think, is probably part of the reason why I was a little unsure for a little bit. But then when I went to go look at college, and I went to the dean of the art department of the school that I was looking at going to, and they looked at my work and said, We think your work is wonderful, but it’s very representational. And that’s not the direction the art world is moving. They said, any university you go to, it’s going to be about abstract expressionism, being expressive with acrylics and just throwing color on canvas. And if you want to learn to paint with oils, and you want to learn to and you want to learn to draw properly and paint with an old master style, a classical style, that’s just it. You can come here, but you’re not going to probably be happy. And so I was really kind of put off by that, and just decided it was time to study the other thing that I loved, which was nature and figure out how to get to Yosemite, somehow, my favorite place in the world. And so I went to get a degree in biology. And then as I was taking courses in biology, and we had to take additional science courses and other disciplines like geology and chemistry and physics and things like that. And I realized along the way how interrelated all sciences are, and just how inspiring it was and how exciting it was to just learn more about what I wanted to paint. And so I added minors in chemistry and geology, and still taking every art class that I could, you know, from art history to darkroom photography to biological illustration when I was in grad school, and so just lots of stuff along the way. But my real inspiration for art was going to museums and looking at the works that really moved me. Like, I can’t remember, I can’t remember what year it was, but the first time I ever walked into a room full of Rembrandts and I just, you know, art skipped a few beats. They were alive. They were breathing. They were just so real. And then they the American Masters who painted the places that I love, like Thomas Hill, Thomas Moran, Albert Bierstadt, and other artists in similar styles in the 19th century. And of course, the ones that we all look at today, like Sargent and Zorn and Zorya and those guys, but, you know, I was looking a lot at the artists who painted the landscapes that I loved, especially, and so that was all kind of inner mixed together, but not really knowing what I wanted to do with it, other than somehow figure out a way to keep painting, figure out a way to get to Yosemite and be in the place that I loved. And at the end of my four years in undergrad, I was on a geology field trip, and we were in Yosemite at the entire course is actually on the geology of Yosemite National Park. And for the end of the course, we went to Yosemite for a week long field trip. And while I was there, I learned about this internship program with the National Park Service and the Yosemite Conservancy. And I just like, This is it. I have to be this. I got to apply to this. So throughout my time in school, I tailored every project in every class to something to do with Yosemite. So in a Native American narratives course, I tailored it to the awanichi in Yosemite. In organic chemistry, I wrote my year long term paper on the reactions of ozone, air pollution, with terpenes and chlorophyll in in pine trees in the park. In entomology, I studied bark beetle so like of course, I studied geology and of our national parks and all my geology courses. So everything was just really tailored. And I had all these papers written and things, and so I submitted this volume of stuff and photos of my photography and my paintings, and I applied for a wilderness position to just be on patrol on the trails and making sure people were safe and camping properly with permits. And they asked me, because of my background, if I could work in interpretation and be able to do programs for the public. And when they said, working in Tuolumne Meadows with campfires with 300 people, like my heart really skipped debate. Like, I don’t want to do public speaking, you know, but I mind. I don’t mind communicating with people through my work. I love doing that, but actually performing in front of a crowd, that’s really scary. And so they said, Well, you can give it a shot, and if it doesn’t work, you can move to wilderness. But we’d really like you to give it a try, you know. And they let me do it in a less intense environment, in Yosemite Valley. And. First, I was not very good, and I heard these incredibly brilliant speakers, longtime park rangers had been there for decades, who were just some of the most brilliant people I’ve ever met. And they could take any tangible object that we see in nature and then just layer all these levels of intangible concepts that just pull at the heartstrings and make people really think and make connections. And that was scary at first, because, like, oh my god, I can share some knowledge, but like, I don’t know how to do this, you know. And over time, I did, and I kept working at it, and I eventually I realized I had the potential to connect people with nature and inspire people that would have lasting impacts outside of their visit to a national park. And so then I went to grad school for a Master’s of Science in environmental education, and all along the way, kept painting. And today, after 25 summers as an interpretive ranger, and the rest of the year and On days off and before and after work, I was always painting. And so it’s, it’s really been predominantly an artist, but it’s, it’s all, like I said at the beginning, a vehicle for communication as an environmental educator. And so as to how that path kind of became realization that it would be making a living as an artist, I don’t really know. There’s any one time, I guess, when I was young, and I was more kind of confident in everything and my knowledge of stuff, I just walked into galleries like, Hey, do you want to sell my work? And I was very fortunate that I landed some shows in college at some major galleries, and things were successful from right, from the beginning. And so I never really questioned that, and never thought about it. And I’ve just been very, very fortunate that the right doors open up at the right times, and I met some really wonderful people that, you know, saw what I was trying to do with my work, and I’m really grateful for those opportunities. So it’s just been like part of who I’ve been my entire adult life. Really, I’ve not known any other path other than that. So there wasn’t any one pivotal moment to make a living as an artist, just sort of all happened. Yeah, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 17:09
It feels very organic, like your love for nature, very organic. But yeah, you’ve mentioned a lot of stuff there that’s very fascinating, you know, like the having the proper support from teachers, and sometimes even, like the, I guess, like that stubborn sort of, well, I have my vision, and this teacher is trying to like, because I think many artists have definitely gone through that situation. I feel like it’s almost rite of passage where butt heads with an instructor at some point, because they just don’t seem to, I don’t know, see what you see, and it is hard to come to terms with that. And I think that also dissuades a lot of people from pursuing art as a career, and the challenges of wanting to be representational, also in a time, especially, you know, 2030, years ago, in a time where it was considered a dead thing. Like, why would you do that? Especially, gosh, I feel like from the 50s up until like 2000s is when contemporary schools were all modernist and almost anti representational, which is kind of sad, because it’s still, you know, no hate on contemporary art, but there’s room for everyone you know, like even contemporary art stems from observation of nature and comes from realism, comes from representational work. So it’s good that you push past that and you still kept going stubbornly.
James McGrew: 18:40
But I actually, I already is I thought I knew the most about art when I was younger, and the more I keep studying, the more I realize how much more there is to know. And it’s like you reach a certain level with your work, with a certain level of accomplishment and a certain level of understanding. And you kind of break through these barriers, and you keep going up and up, and all of a sudden you begin to see things in masterworks in museums that you couldn’t see before that. And as far as I know, those never end, you know, they just keep getting more and more and more. So you begin to realize just how much there is to really learn, and just how brilliant a lot of the masters were, both contemporary and, you know, for the last hundreds of years of throughout art history.
Laura Arango Baier: 19:24
Yeah, and like you said, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. Like, the more you know, the less you know. And it’s similar with science. You know, the more you learn, the more questions you have. And it just keeps going on and on and on. And actually, speaking of science, I wanted to ask you, do you find that your increase in like knowledge about biology, chemistry and all these different scientific components has that influenced your understanding of painting and how to create like an image that seems more realistic just based on that
James McGrew: 19:55
Absolutely, in fact, I would say that’s kind of the foundation, the most important thing. And. And you know, we think about this, look at davinci’s work, you look at Rembrandt’s work, you go back to these master figure painters and the studies they did with human anatomy, with dissections and things, and they really early on, that’s when you start to really see figure work that starts to look real. And every great figure painter today, of course, studies anatomy to some degree, and it’s really important to know the bone structure and the musculature and everything and how things work. And the reality is the same with your painting nature. So I mean human animals versus, you know, other wild animals, birds and things, you still have to know the anatomy. It’s also important to know the behavior. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been really fortunate to encounter incredible species that are very rare, endangered species in the wild, pretty frequently, and sometimes that’s just a product of being out painting plein air, very still, very quiet by yourself for two hours with all of your senses heightened, and animals just they lose their sense of fear, and they go about their business, and they’ll reveal themselves to you and like, go walking or flying right by in front of me while I’m working, but also just knowing what I’m intentionally looking for stuff and knowing when and where to find them, and then be able to tell the stories about those animals, how they fit in an ecological niche, or the background behind that thing and the story that’s being told through my work. And sometimes I’m adding a visual story in the painting. Other times it’s the captivating thing, and I’m adding an interpretive writing that goes with that pain, that elaborates and gives you some more information on the natural history or ecological status, on endangered species status or things like that. So that’s all super important. And and then, of course, the anatomy of nature is, you know, geology, and also physics. And the more we understand geology and why rocks break the way they do, why they layer and color the way that they do, that’s really important, and what to look for in the landscape. I mean, you know, you look at the Impressionists and just looking at a thing and finding a color and value and the relationships of those strokes next to everything around it is valuable, and you can just create a painting that way. But it helps a lot if you also are kind of looking for certain things. And you know why a rock should be more angular in certain situations, or softer and more rounded than others. Why that there would be certain colors on the cliffs? Why, with physics of atmosphere and light through Rayleigh scatter, why things compress and value and become more blue as they recede, and why you have different light source versus, you know, warm and cool and light source versus reflected light and a shadow, and there are no fit rules. And like I was at on faculty plein air convention last year, and and one of the other faculty members came up and used my painting as a demo for somebody he was trying to talk to. And and the guy said, okay, so somebody else told me that the shadows should be warmer than the light source, and it’s always that way. And like, well, there’s a lot of situations where that’s the case, but it’s not always true. And at this time of day, it was sunset. So I said, you know this, the atmosphere has filtered out all the short wavelengths of the spectrum. We only have the long wavelengths coming through, so the light source is very warm, but the shadows right now reflecting blue light from the sky, so it’s completely reversed of what you think. And if you’re not making observations in nature and also understanding what’s happening with that physics, you know it might be a lot more complicated to try and figure things out. And then the other side of all of that doesn’t matter what genre of work you’re doing or what your subject matter is, is knowing human visual processing system, how we perceive things, how we process how it triggers certain emotions, how we can play off of our processing system, like the way the Impressionists did, using like, for example, equal value, complementary colors and juxtapose near each other. And you know, the rods and the cones and our retinas are wired to different parts of the brain, and so rods are looking at grayscale, and cones are looking at color and detail. And so if you put those equal value complements next to each other, the brain has a hard time figuring out what’s going on, and that’s what causes the vibrance and atmosphere you see in Impressionism. And I mean, even fasori wrote about it, with the Mona Lisa, with the the green earth that was used, and the verdaccio and the under painting, and then the Vermillion mixed with lead white into the the over painting, and you get that resonance and vibrance of two complementary colors there and and create like, as he said, it looked like the veins in her neck were pulsing. We can’t see that now, because the varnish has changed and the paints changed. But you know, we can rely on what was written about it and see that in more contemporary works that do the same thing. So whether they knew the science behind what was happening or not, certain artists figured these things out along the way. And we can study the art, or we can. Study the science or both. And I think it’s all really valuable and instrumental into helping know what to look for, and that speeds the process and helps us when we’re inevitably always getting stuck, you know, in a painting, trying to figure things out why something’s not working.
Laura Arango Baier: 25:18
Yeah, yeah. And that’s it’s so fascinating, because now it’s, I’m even more intimidated by landscape just the idea of, like, Huh? I wonder if this is limestone over there, and what kind of reflective nature limestone has, and maybe granite doesn’t have, and all of these things that could definitely, I would say it could improve the understanding of a painting, which is great. And I think it’s also up to the person, if they want to go that far to like, really understand what they’re looking at, which is exactly what Leonardo did right with his illegal anatomy shenanigans, which really helped him understand the insertion points of muscles and why, you know, certain things are shaped the way they are, or even, like the very famous Michelangelo sculpture where the pinky is slightly lifted, so this one muscle is exposed that isn’t normally exposed unless your pinky is lifted. So, yeah, I think there is a beautiful combination of, like, knowledge and observation that I think a lot of successful paintings and sculptures and other art forms tend to have. So I think, if anything, it might, it might spark intimidation, but curiosity as well as like, Oh, okay. Like, how would that work? Or, like, how does why does this look funny? Maybe there is a scientific observational reason why it’s not working in my painting. So that’s really interesting. And actually, speaking of I
James McGrew: 26:46
do that when I teach a workshop, I always mix that the stuff that you standard teach in a workshop, design, composition, draftsmanship, values, color theory and, of course, edges, you know. But I also teach all the natural history sides of things, and the visual processing system and the art history and all that stuff and how it interweaves together to help people be able to see better and work more efficiently and effectively and and know what to look for and when and how and anticipate. So much about plein air painting is not capturing something in the moment, it’s knowing what’s going to happen. Like, you know, sunset lasts for five minutes, and you can’t paint a good sized painting in that amount of time, usually. But you know, you have to kind of know where things are likely to go.
Laura Arango Baier: 27:35
Yeah, yeah. And that’s the part about science that’s so useful. It’s the repetition, right? The the replication of experiments. It’s the knowing what’s going to happen. Like you said, just based on, oh, well, these are the conditions that are happening. I’m just going to lay out, for example, like lay out all of the structure of my painting. And that way, once I know that sunset hits where I want it, where I know it’s going to be, I know exactly where I’m going to start popping those colors on, where I need to, to make a convincing, you know, image. And I think that’s, that’s, I like to say that plein air is like running a crazy marathon, which actually leads me to my next question, because I know you do plein air, of course, and you do studio work. What is your process like? You know, from searching for your subject matter up to finished piece.
James McGrew: 28:27
That’s a great question. It’s a big question. The most important thing, like we’ve been talking about, is just observing nature and spending time in nature and letting that sort of reveal itself. You know, what really moves me? What inspires me. Sometimes I’m actually looking for something on purpose, like looking for peregrine falcons or looking for spotted owls or great gray owls or bears or something that I’m intending to paint for a reason. And we’ll put myself into that habitat on purpose, set up a landscape painting and be working, and invariably, I’ll have a long lens on a camera set to high speed and have another panel set and ready to go quickly. And then if that animal shows up, I’ll usually do a quick study of them, even if it’s only a matter of strokes, or I might incorporate them into the painting that I’m already working on. And then, of course, grab some quick reference photos. And most important, just really absorb that moment and suck it as much as I can in through my senses, and pay attention to everything I’m observing and feeling at the time. And I think a lot of it is intentional, but a lot of it is also beyond our kind of intended control, like just so many of the things that we’re feeling when we’re out in nature, ultimately do come in through all of our senses, whether it be visual or auditory or olfactory or touch and and then just even the way we’re feeling at the moment and aware of what’s going on and like, there’s times I’ve been on a vertical wall on a cliff in Yosemite rock climbing to get an image or something, you know, and one of the paintings is in my next upcoming show. Actually. Is peregrine falcons hunting bats at sunset, and I was really reliant on a park biologist and a couple of outstanding world class rock climbers to get me into that place, to be able to get there, to experience that, do a study on site and get the photo references. But also it was so intense my senses were heightened, and like, I could paint it without their references, because it’s just so indelibly ingrained, because because of the experience, because the emotion of where I was, you know, 300 feet off the ground at the time, so that that all kind of comes into play. And whether we’re consciously thinking about it or not, it’s channeled through the brush when you’re there on site. And so when I’m out in nature painting, it’s sometimes kind of planned. Other times it’s just whatever happens and what inspires me, and I don’t know what I’m going to look for for the day. I mean, I rely on my background to know when the light’s going where, like in Yosemite Valley, for example, I know certain times of the year when the light hits certain waterfalls, when to anticipate certain things, when it hits certain sequoia groves, when it hits certain cliffs. And the same is true in other landscapes that I paint a lot, like Zion and Grand Canyon and and things like that. But then there’s stuff that you just you can’t predict, and when certain wildlife is going to arrive, when weather changes unexpectedly, when something hits, that just really makes you excited and inspired. Like, oh, I have to paint that right now. I was not what I was thinking, but get my gear out go, you know, and gotta record it. And I almost never paint a studio piece without a plein air reference, at least one, and I have to have experienced it on in person. So I often hesitate to take on commissions if somebody doesn’t have, you know, something that they’ve already seen me paint, and I already have planner references and photographs of my own, my own memories, and so that’s a really important part of the process. But then, of the images that I’ve gathered in the studio to plan our studies and and things, there are certain ones over time I’ll kind of sometimes know right away, oh, that’s gonna be my big show piece for my next show. Other times, I just look at stuff and kind of figure out, all right, which ones am I going to orchestrate into certain pieces and figure out which ones I need to tell the story to round out the body of work and to put together for a thematic body for a show like every one of my big solo shows have a thematic body behind them, an artist statement that’s describing how all those paintings fit into an umbrella. And so I usually am planning those out at least a year ahead of time. And so those, those are kind of going into what I’m designing for the studio pieces. And then, like I have right here behind me, I have a big piece of Yosemite that’s going to be one of the pieces in my show. I’m making some last adjustments to it now and then the plein air reference here that I painted on site one morning, got up at dawn, went out to this viewpoints, a steep scramble up on some granite cliffs, to that spot, and set up. And I painted, I don’t know how many times from that area, all different times a day, all different times of the year. And this one that I really didn’t want to put up for sale. So many of my plein air paintings I never put out for sale because they’re just too valuable as a reference for a studio piece. And this one I’d been wanting to do, and I just knew it would fit with the theme of the show. And so use that to orchestrate in conjunction with my memory and my photos and come up with the big studio pieces,
Laura Arango Baier: 33:29
amazing, wow,
James McGrew: 33:30
and try and channel the same emotions that I had while I was in the field. And sometimes I have to just really kind of visualize and think and try and go back in my mind to try and get back into that place. Sometimes I rely on certain music to get me there and fit the same kind of a mood.
Laura Arango Baier: 33:49
Yes, yeah. I think that’s one of those underrated parts of being a painter, which is memory. I think a lot of a lot of the most important part of the process is part memory and part, of course, like immediate reaction to what you’re seeing and immediate capturing, right? But I think you know, having the memory is so so so valuable. I mean, that means you can, you know that means you can close your eyes and you have learned something so well that you can visually recreate it without necessarily having to see it because you’ve observed it so much. And I think that’s one of those skills that I think is, you know, necessary to develop that observation memory. Like, if I could close my eyes and repaint the painting that I’m making on a separate scrap of paper, I probably could type of skill set. I did. I have a funny little question, which is, do you think you could paint a scene from one of your favorite areas without any references, just from memory? I.
James McGrew: 35:00
Definitely I have, and I do, yes, when I was a kid, I loved fishing. I love trout, and from when I was eight years old, I started using pastels to draw very species of trout. By the time I was a teenager, I could paint any species of trout that lived in the Sierra, just from memory, the different color patterns. And, you know, Rainbow, golden, cutthroats, browns, brook trout, which are actually char, but they all have very different color patterns and thin Ray patterns and shapes and everything. And those were the things that I was, you know, for a little while there, that I love to paint a lot and but the other landscape too, you know certain key things in Yosemite. Yosemite is in the Grand Canyon in Zion, Yellowstone. So many of our big, iconic Western national parks are almost more like painting portraits than landscapes in some respects, because, like, if you know you’re reading Edgar Payne’s book or John Carlson’s guide, landscape painting, like just so many of these books about you know how to modify the landscape and and be able to orchestrate a landscape that kind of works, that only works when you can really fudge things a lot with Yosemite, the features are so iconic and so well Known, like the abanici and Yosemite refer to Half Dome as tissiak. And there’s an Indian legend behind that, and everything. And like, there are, like, there’s, there are profiles of a human face, couple of them in the Face of Half Dome, and with the lichen streaks and oxidation patterns on the streak on the face. And if you don’t get that right, you look at the geology right, like people recognize it right away. And it’s like messing up the features of somebody’s face, or, if you’re doing a figure study, and getting their one arm kind of wonky or something, you know, or the hands, is always, of course, you know, really hard to paint, too. So that’s just something that is really important when painting really well known landscapes, and you you have to kind of rely on that knowledge of it being more like a portrait painting than just a straight landscape. But that’s not to say you can’t fudge things, because we do perceive things differently. And my biggest struggle with our big national parks, and so many artists have said the same to me, is, how do you capture the sense of scale? You know, if we’re looking almost 5000 feet up at the Face of Half Dome, or two and a half 1000 feet at Yosemite Falls, we’re looking 12 miles across the Grand Canyon. And how do you gather and convey the sense of scale with the emotional impact, without just resorting to pure abstract you know, works or or like Bierstadt did and completely move mountains around, or Moran did the same thing and do lots of degree Thomas Hill and by the way, all those guys also study with scientists. And at the time frame the science expeditions, the Hayden expedition, things like that. Scientists were working side by side with photographers and painters, and they were all sharing the knowledge interchangeably between each other, so there really wasn’t the kind of difference that we see today of different fields, but I think that’s all really kind of instrumental in coming up with the landscape piece of one of our national parks, which for me, the reason I paint them partially is because they’re so beautiful and just so inspirational. And when I was a kid, and when I was younger, like that was just my inspiration, I just was excited and moved inside to do it. But then something changed when my first daughter was born. She’s now 29 and in fact, her and her husband are due in July, some of your grandfather, but so that’s even adds more to it. But I remember there was this day I was near Glacier Point in Yosemite, and when I was in my late teens or so, you feel kind of invincible, especially if like you’re an athlete or something, and you’re you’re out in these places, and you’re not really thinking about the potential danger times. And there was one day where there was just this light bulb that I remember really clearly, and I was at this ledge of a cliff, and I was trying to get a better perspective for a photograph, and I stopped, and I was the first time I ever really remember feeling that and thinking, Oh, I have another reason to be careful now. And it was my daughter, you know, had been born, and that also changed the trajectory of the purpose of my work. And it wasn’t any longer just because it was something that inspired me and I just wanted to share it with other people for kind of selfish reasons, because I liked it, it was really more because I was trying to help inspire people to conserve nature for future generations, and the need to help protect the environment and all of our national our big Western national parks that kind of laid the foundation for the national park system that is not just now nationwide, but spread around the world. Started with Yosemite. In 1855 with the first tourist party, where Thomas Ayers did a series of drawings of Yosemite Valley that then were reproduced, and then that were photographers. And then one of the most famous artists in the country that time, Albert Bierstadt, came and painted. And then he was in his studio, he had a couple pieces of Yosemite, and that was when senators and congressmen and he, it’s also said that may have been Abraham Lincoln, may have been influenced. So the signing the Yosemite grant in 1864 was highly linked to that. And then our early parts like that became national parks like Yosemite in 1890 surrounding the Yosemite grand and then Yellowstone in 1872 and same with the Grand Canyon And mukuntu weep, which is actually Zion today, and so many other parks owe their existence to the works of artists spreading awareness to The public and to Congress and presidents that ultimately inspired legislative support that set aside those places. And today we can look at them as the places that most really get people inspired. I was reading The FASO Way, one of the things that Clint sends out, he sends out these wonderful writings that really are make you think. And today’s writing was from another writer, Laura, I have to look up the name again, but it was a really intriguing thought process of creativity and how humans have creativity that cannot be replicated with AI. And even more interesting than that was that humans ultimately unlearn creativity. The propensity and opportunity of creativity is much greater in young humans than it is as people age and we think we know things in the environment, we lose a sense of wonder and curiosity and just thinking about what if and why and how that we think of more when we’re younger. And I think national parks, because they’re so otherworldly, so beautiful, they’re places where we can experience wildlife that is dangerous, often deadly, that it gets our heart beating fast, makes us really take note and be like, Wow. And these giant cliffs and geysers and waterfalls and 3000 year old giant sequoia trees that think about the human history that’s occurred in one lifetime of one tree, and all these things that are just so inspiring to people, even the most jaded people who think they know what a tree is, or they know what the landscape is, they know what beauty is, and they Go to National Park, and they still just can’t help but hold back, you know, tears sometimes, or just keep their mouth closed as they know,
Laura Arango Baier: 42:50
yeah, yeah. That’s the beauty of, you know, going to the source, right? Going to nature. And also just hearing about how your, you know, your view of your subject matter has evolved over time, you know, from enthusiast down to really just wanting to Cheryl that there’s so many beautiful things that need to be protected and taken care of. And I’ve also, when I took my environmental science class in high school, they kept repeating the phrase like, We are the stewards of the earth. Because, you know, we’re, we have like the we’re like the top of the food chain at this point, and it is our duty and responsibility to maintain harmony within that food chain, because we have the wherewithal to do it. I mean, animals are just going to continue doing what they’re going to do, and humans are. We’ve been interrupting that for so long that it’s good to be conscious of our own consequences, of our own actions, and to protect and maintain the beautiful earth that is honestly like a miracle in so many senses. So I think it’s very inspiring to hear you know how your relationship to this, this very long term relationship with your subject matter, has evolved in a beautiful way. You know, thinking about future generations like that.
James McGrew: 44:10
There’s an old proverb, and it’s, I’ve seen it attributed to various different cultures, but it’s, it’s basically the same thing, and that is, take care of the earth. It wasn’t given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. And that’s really true.
Laura Arango Baier: 44:27
That hits hard, because it’s true. I mean, I constantly were like, Oh my gosh, what? What’s coming next, but I feel like that’s anyone who studies the environment. I think losing constant dread and anxiety about it one of the reasons I loved my environmental science class, but it was also like, you know what? I think I like not knowing sometimes, because
James McGrew: 44:50
it’s so true, I have that thought quite often, like, once you know, like when you’re just blindly seeing pretty things in nature, like, great. But then once you want. Understand the ecological complexity and the influence of, let’s say, endangered species. For example, you know, you think, Oh, that’s a pretty tree, or that’s a pretty animal or fish or whatever, and then you realize it’s completely destroying the ecosystem, because people brought it there. And you know, it’s like, once you know these things, you can’t unsee them, and then know them. And it does totally change your perspective of looking at the world. And there is definitely both a positive and a downside to that, actually, but it keeps me constantly driven to work harder and harder at not just painting better and better like that’s an endless, you know, trajectory, endless work, but also endless learning about my subject and being able to tell that story in the background, and especially today, this is one of the most pivotal moments. The rate that we’re losing species, species diversity, and everything is happening so incredibly fast, and most people are completely unaware, because we just don’t see it in the news. There’s so much other stuff that’s monopolizing news time that unless you’re really actively looking for it, you’re probably not aware of how much things are really happening and just how fast. So I try to keep up on that stuff and also incorporate that into my work. And like I said, I’m emotionally driven with it, in addition to the just the background,
Laura Arango Baier: 46:18
yeah, yeah, it’s the the so called 11th Hour. Oh, I remember that. That’s also very but you know, sometimes there is good news, environmental good news, which, you know, we always celebrate that, but in your time, oh yes, there’s actually a good amount of good news. It’s just, you know, it’s good to not be totally riddled with bad news. So I tend to follow you know, both the very serious news and then also the fortunately, much happier news about breakthroughs in science that are helping the environment, like the breakthroughs about, oh, we’ve come up with a way to undo microplastics, which I’m excited about, because I think that’s one of the biggest risks for the future of humanity, and it’s always been a risk for the environment and for animals. And yeah, anyway,
James McGrew: 47:11
I do incorporate, you know, my upcoming next show, for example, I do have a few paintings that I have actually coming out, so like the California Art Club Gold Medal exhibit, I have a painting of a of a juvenile, recently fledged California spotted owl. It’s just this downy little fuzz ball with these giant dark eyes. And you can’t help but like, have it melt your heart and just want to reach out and hug them. They’re just so adorably beautiful and cute, sweet and just heartwarming. And having spent a lot of time around them is just unbelievable. And they are in serious trouble. I paint a lot of California condors. I mean, they were down to like, 22 individuals left on the planet, and it’s been an incredibly intensive effort to just keep them live. And they’re still critically endangered. But you know that is, that is a really big issue that we are dealing with. But on the flip side of that, I try to remember that there’s a lot of stuff that’s really hopeful another species, the peregrine falcon, which has inspired me since I was a teen, and at that time, they were really critically endangered. Couldn’t see them in the wild. I mean, I remember reading Galen Raul’s write ups in National Geographic and his photography, as a photographer. He was a nature photographer and rock climber, and the story about how they were critically endangered because of DDT thinning their eggshells, and they were all dying, and they were crashing catastrophically globally. And this is the top predator of the skies, the fastest creature on earth. They fly at 240 miles an hour, and you know, they they’re not afraid of anything, and they’re just the most phenomenally incredible creatures to watch when they’re so not just fast, but agile, and they’re also incredibly intelligent. They’re related to parrots, not other raptors, and they have an incredibly high level of intelligence and creativity, problem solving, they use tools. They make toys. They work together as teams, male and female, mate for life, and they do all kinds of things together. And so the more time we spend in nature, the more we really see stuff that we may not otherwise notice. And it’s been spending hundreds of hours out where peregrine falcons live on the cliffs of my favorite national parks, and getting to observe them so much that I’ve observed those behaviors and watched juveniles learning to teach themselves to make toys and hunt and just things that you don’t really see written about otherwise. And that’s all come from just a lot of time in nature and observing nature. And in the 1970s there were no peregrine falcons in Yosemite they’d gone completely extinct locally and through intensive efforts of the Peregrine fund, funding things, the National Park Service and biologists, rock climbers and all these people working together, age. Educators, scientists, and of course, the Endangered Species Act was created in early 1970s DDT was banned and other organochloride pesticides. And so through all this cooperative work and understanding and research and funding, peregrine falcons were brought back from the brink and delisted in the late 1990s and now there are, like, 15 nesting pairs on average every year in Yosemite. And I’ve watched the same pairs returning to the same nest sites year after year, and watched them changing their hunting behaviors and their teaching behaviors with their children according to their Young’s different personalities and how many young they have. And it’s just, you know, this wonderful ray of hope to see what we can do when we put our minds to it, the works of artists and scientists and educators and and everybody. It’s never hopeless. You know, we see some stuff that, at times, can definitely make us feel kind of down, but it’s important to remember the potential that we have that’s so wonderful and that it can keep us going and keep us pursuing, helping to protect these things and inspire.
Laura Arango Baier: 51:11
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly webinar, The FASO Show, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories and answer your burning questions in real time, whether you’re a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn and spark new ideas, and whether you’re stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don’t miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next FASO show webinar is coming up on the 23rd of April, with our special guest, Shana Levenson. You can find the sign up link in the show notes at BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BOLDBRUSH provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that’s BOLDBUSH show.com. The FASO Podcast is sponsored by FASO. Now, more than ever, it’s crucial to have a website when you’re an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, FASO.com/podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that’s basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won’t get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year. Then start now by going to our special link, FASO.com/podcast, that’s FASO.com/podcast, yeah, yeah, and especially now that we are in the prime time of information, right? Like we are in the information age through and through, where we have direct access to everything online, just information wise. So it’s good to, not only, like before, just rely on, like, the really sad news on on the TV, it’s like, no you can also seek out, like, one, positive news two ways that you can also help support, you know, anything that has to do with wanting to support a cause, like with the Falcons or with any other species, because, yeah, people can do a lot of magic when they come together. And that’s what really matters. Yeah, absolutely insane. And I think the other beautiful thing is, of course, that you’ve been mixing, you know, these two aspects of, like, your love, which is like art and national parks. Was there a moment where you realize, like, Oh, I’m, you know, working as a park ranger, but I’m also making, like, a really good side income from painting. What was that like for you?
James McGrew: 54:36
It was actually the reverse my income as an artist, and was making the summer side income as a ranger, but I not at the very beginning, though, like the very first few years. Of course it was, it was always a struggle, and I did work much longer seasons with the Park Service. My first couple seasons, actually, I was still in grad school, so. So after my summer internship in Yosemite, I went to grad school, and then I had a couple of winters where I worked at Crater Lake National Park in Southern Oregon. I was at Southern Oregon University, and so on weekdays, I was at school, and then on weekends, I drive to the park and do snowshoe walks interpretive programs up at the park. And then once I graduated, went back down to Yosemite. And so it was initially, yes, there were longer seasons and and more reliant on that, but it wasn’t very long before I was, I was really doing a lot more of the painting and relying on that as a bigger source of income. But they still, they both still go hand in hand. And there are some ways we can reach people through visual arts beyond the scope of the immediate vicinity, the landscape. And there are ways that we can connect people in nature, right there in the moment. I mean, there’s no substitute for watching a bird dropping out of the sky at 200 miles an hour. Or watch a bear, you know, hunt something right in front of you. Or watch a mountain lion jump 15 feet in a single leap up a cliffside in complete silence and just disappear. Or have a great, great owl fly out of a tree and go right by you like a ghost without the slightest sound whatsoever. And they’re gigantic owls. You know, there’s just, there is no substitute for these kinds of experiences. And being able to share those with people on site and inspire them and teach them is really great, too. So I’ve always really liked the balance, regardless of what the income level is and it’s, it’s really the payment for me has always been seeing people smiling, seeing their eyes open wide and and seeing them connecting through every way that I can, I can manage to try and share what I can with people,
Laura Arango Baier: 56:51
yeah, yeah. And I’ve heard so many artists say the same, where they feel like Lucky, almost like, wow, I make money off of this thing that I really love, and I’m just doing it because it fulfills me and it makes me wake up happy every morning. And sure, we struggle with some paintings here and there, because no painting is ever in the park. They’re always a struggle in the park, but not always. But to a greater extent, though, it gives you a really good reason to get up in the morning and enjoy just being alive and the celebration of how every moment is a new moment. You know, the eternal Now, as they say, I think is, is one of those things that you know, unfortunately, we do need money to live unfortunately, but it is wonderful to have that as, like, almost like, the secondary reason, or even tertiary reason for painting and for, you know, being out in nature, which is extremely amazing. If I wanted
James McGrew: 58:01
to get rich, I wouldn’t try to be an artist or a park ranger or a teacher or an educator. You know, that’s never been the purpose for any of it, exactly.
Laura Arango Baier: 58:09
Yeah. It just feels like the lucky bonus that you get for doing what you love every day, which is extremely inspiring as well. Though. I think, you know, it’s, I feel like a lot of artists we have like this calling for it, right? It’s not like you said, like, if I wanted to be rich, this isn’t what I would do, but I do it because it is compulsory. It is what my my insides are screaming for. It’s I have no other thing that could ever fulfill me this deeply. And of course, money could never have that so but we still need it.
James McGrew: 58:44
It’s true. And even as an artist, though, it’s very easy to get derailed and sidetracked, and you do have to make a living. And I’ve, I’ve put two daughters through college, and they’re both adults now. And you know, it’s has not been an easy road, that’s for sure, and there’s a lot of pressure to, you know, make a living, not just for yourself, but supporting a family, and especially like in that case, when you’re raising kids, all completely dependent upon your income. And so it’s easy to get lost in terms of the focus. And you can be focused more on the income and the business side of stuff, and winning awards, or getting into a gallery, or getting recognition from your peers or from judges and or magazine articles. And you know, I’ve been very fortunate to achieve all of those things, but the times that I was really seeking them, I think the most because it just felt like I had to because I needed to support the family, and I was more focused on it for financial purposes than, you know, inside, some of the most important realizations in my career came when I kind of just forgot all about that and just said, That’s not what’s really important. And I remember in one of the Maui planner painting invitationals in 2020 and I’ve done most of the major invitationals on the western US for many years, and had a great time painting with wonderful artists and friends, and inspired to learn from them, and met so many wonderful collectors and so many wonderful people at the shows and the judges and and things. And I remember John Stern, who was the judge for Laguna Invitational for many, many years, and the Maui Invitational for many years, well respected writer, art critic and curator and everything and and it seemed to me, I was for a while, I was always trying to figure out what a judge had in mind when they were trying to figure out who to give an award to, or what painting to give an award to. And I’ve at times asked judges, okay, so what made you give my painting an award, or this one or over that one? And you know, sometimes our judges just say, I pick what I like, and that’s all they’re willing to say. Other times they’re they’re going to define it based on, you know, the objective criteria of design, composition, edge work, other than more intangible stuff, like the emotional connection that they had and and so I was always trying to figure these things out. And and I would see like, for example, what John was looking at for Best of Show paintings. And I realized so many of his awards had architectural things, just contemporary buildings and things in them. And like, well, that’s not really what I want to paint. I do paint really landmark architecture, really interesting Native American things and early national parks history and some of the grand lodges and things like that. But for the most part, I’m painting nature without human influence as much as I can, as pristine as possible. And so I thought, you know, it’s just it’s not going to work. He’s never going to give me an award. And so in 2021 I went to Maui. Told my family before I left, I’m not expecting awards. I’m not looking for awards. I’m not looking for sales. And I don’t care what happens. I I just really, really need to paint from my heart and paint what’s really important to me. And because of what’s going on in the Hawaiian Islands, the rate of extinction is incredibly high because of island biogeography and all the introduced species and how fast things are disappearing. So I made it a goal to find and paint and incorporate endangered species into every painting that I did during that week, and I largely stayed away from people doing things on my own. I mean, of course I tended to paint out some things, but I managed to get a permit to go up to the summit of Haleakala and drive up there in the evening, did a painting at sunset, drove down and camped at night, howling wind and driving horizontal rain all night long. Woke up in the morning. It was still crazy weather. Drove up to the summit, 3000 feet up, and you got to the summit, we were way above the storm clouds. It was crystal clear, no wind, totally calm. You could see a blanket of storm all around the island below. I started hiking at dawn. Hiked a few miles down into the crater, walking on one inch tall frost crystals on the trail. It was just the biggest crystals I’d ever seen. And as I got down into the crater, there was nobody around, no sound. Is the only time in my life I’ve been on this planet and heard nothing, no airplanes overhead, no birds, no wind, no insects, no voices, no cars. It was the most magically peaceful, incredibly beautiful experience as I watched the sun come up stream over the fog into the valley, into the crater there caldera and and then I intentionally put some endangered plants in the foreground. The Haleakala Silver Sword lives and is endemic only to the summit of Haleakala and nowhere else in the world, and they are critically endangered because of the risk of climate change pushing their habitat up higher and higher, and they’re basically going to run out of habitat pretty soon, but also grazing and the harvest and habitat damage and things and so it was really important. So throughout the rest of the event, I painted green sea turtles, Hanu and the scarlet honey creeper, Ev and Nene, the Hawaiian goose, and just, you know, all these endangered species, I was really fortunate to be able to find I did, like, months of research leading up to that, to figure out where they were. And I couldn’t take credit for it either. I mean, people helped me out a lot to be able to get to places and know where things were. And I submitted the pieces to the show without expecting anything to come of it, except I just wanted to tell the story. And my daughter flew out, my younger daughter, Janelle, and. And she forgot her her clothes for the gala that night, so we had to go shopping in Lahaina, and we’re going from store to store and trying to find stuff for us. We’re late coming in. And some friends, when I got there, said, Congratulations. And I said, what? You know, I didn’t expect anything. And I said, Did I win something? And she said, you kind of want everything, but I had, I had actually won the Best of Show from John stern and the for that painting up in Haleakala, also the honor Hawaii, honor Maui award, collective Choice Award, and some other awards. And I just that was really important for me, because I realized at the moment that we and, and it wasn’t like I just came at this on my own, like I had people in my life that were really important in my life, my partner telling me, like she was saying, like, you gotta, you gotta, just forget about what you’re chasing. You know, forget about the sales, forget about the awards, just just paint and and it’s absolutely true, and I that’s exactly what I did for that show, but I had to come up with it on my own terms and get to that point all on my own eventually, even though I knew what to do and people were telling me, but once I actually hit to that point and just didn’t care what happened anymore, what I received, what sold, and I just painted from my heart what was really important through my work, and, you know, getting those, those rewards were, I guess, just sort of a recognition that that was the right direction,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:30
beautiful, yes, yeah. I think that’s definitely something that I relate to. And I think many of our listeners will definitely relate to that feeling of, oh, if I, you know, get into this show, or, like, if I try to win this one award, then I’ll feel like I’ve really made it as an artist, and I can, you know, put it on my website and my CV, and feel like I’ve accomplished something. But oftentimes, I’ve met a lot of people who feel like a sense of emptiness afterward, where it’s like, maybe they’ve won the award, but then the high kind of gets lost because, I mean, yeah, you won the award, people move on. I mean, everyone else is going to move on too and try to win their other awards over there. And you might as well do it with work that you actually love to do, and if you win, that’s, once again, the bonus, right? The secondary bonus. So I think it’s very inspiring and very on brand for you to suddenly stubbornly persist with your vision. I think of yourself, you know, at that teacher is like, yeah, no, this is my vision. I’m just gonna stubbornly pursue it, and it will reach the right people. And that’s what counts, you know, yeah, and actually speaking of reaching the right people when, like, how was it for you? Like, how did you find your first collectors? And then what did you learn about that process that has helped you? I guess today in your career,
James McGrew: 1:08:07
I was just putting my work out there. I mean, I I just tried to get get my work into galleries, and figured that was the avenue to do so. And I was fortunate that that did kind of work and enough people. I mean, of course, I got turned down from places and shows all the time, like everybody, and I shouldn’t say everybody. I know some people that you know have incredible opportunities all the time, but there were lots of things that didn’t work out. But the ones that did, I just kept focusing on those and moving forward and and I felt like, the funny thing is, early on in my career, I was in that place where I didn’t think about sales, I didn’t think about any kind of recognition or anything, and I was only focused on just painting from the heart, what I love to do, and the stories I wanted to tell. And then over time, because I had to make the living and I had to support a family, is when I got sidetracked, I think, and having to think about the other stuff. And, you know, a number of years ago, really made that full circle transition to the realization that the awards and everything are great and the sales are, you know, great, but the bottom line is, if you just speak from the heart and you’re authentic and do what you did this for in the first place, hopefully things will work. And if it’s inspiring you, it’s probably going to inspire somebody else. If you’re working hard enough at it, and you’re really putting enough out there, it’s probably going to connect with somebody somewhere. And I just try to, and I realize that, you know, most of my work probably won’t connect with people, and that’s okay, but the ones that do, I’m really grateful for every one of those opportunities and those connections. And you know, obviously when somebody buys a painting, that’s always such a wonderful recognition. And I have some collectors that, you know, just brand new, collectors that have bought one painting, sometimes through a gallery, sometimes directly, sometimes from a plein air event, and they, you know, meet me while painting on site, or they see me painting out in a national park. And I give him a card and and say, Well, you know, I’m in these galleries, and you can go see my work over here. And because you can’t ever sell a painting in a national park, so that’s illegal, only concessions can sell in a national park. So I’ve never sold a painting in a national park. I’ve always just, you know, say, you know, if I’m inside, like, well, there’s the Worthington gallery in Springdale or in Grand Canyon, like over at cold studio, if I’m in Yosemite is like at the Ansel Adams Gallery. And, you know, wherever I am, I just refer people to something, but I forgot where I was going with that. Collectors. Oh yes, collectors, how to connect with those connectors. So, you know, it’s just, I think being present, being out there, putting your work in galleries, but then also doing plein air events was a huge door to open up a lot of avenues to collectors. Other galleries, other show invitationals came about that way. And I have had so many other opportunities arise because of those. And plein air events can be incredibly exhausting. It’s a huge amount of work and intensive painting in a short amount of time and subject to the weather and conditions that occur at that time, many of them have quick draws, and so you’ve got two hours to paint a painting, and I would often do like a 12 by 24 it’s about as big as I could do on a two hour window, and that required a huge amount of focus ahead of time. I’d usually have to think it through, visualize it in my mind, usually after a week of painting in that location, whichever park it was in, and and then just give it everything I had for two hours, and I could practically fall over and pass out afterwards. I just, you know, so much energy goes into painting in those situations, but to have the crowds around connecting and talking with you and and seeing the landscape and everything, that’s a really valuable opportunity to help inspire people and get people not just to connect to the work, but also to realize the relationship that artists and art have had with the preservation and public awareness of our national parks and the environment as a whole. And so I really value that opportunity. I’m always grateful for those those chances and those meetings and in those collectors so a lot of my collector base kind of came about that way. Some of them from other big national shows, like the American impressionist society national exhibit and OPA and the California art Club’s gold medal exhibit and and things like that. And and then International, you know, online competitions, the art salon, and they actually just bought one of my pieces for their permanent collection for this year’s exhibit. And so I’m excited for that show. And so we just, you know, every time you just, I think, if you just paint and put your heart in to it and put enough work out there and let enough people see it, it’s bound to connect with somebody at some point. And that’s just kind of a chain reaction that keeps building. If you keep keep at it, and keep putting it out there and keep continually working at it,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:09
yes, yeah, there’s no instant gratification. There no
James McGrew: 1:13:13
it’s a long, long process. And like, I’m especially grateful for my long term collectors. And I have one couple in California that has over 30 paintings, and you walk into their house and it’s filled with some of the best artists who have paint California like their whole house is a museum floor to ceiling. Actually have a few collectors that have lots of you know, paintings in their walls like that, just jam, salon style everywhere. And then I have collectors that have, you know, one painting per wall and just an assortment of different types, and some that can only, you know, afford a small piece. And I really value every one of those and along the whole spectrum,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:57
yeah, yeah. I mean anyone who can appreciate a painting and hang it up on their wall and live with it every day, right? See this painting every day. I think it’s, it’s an honor. It is, yeah, yeah. And actually did want to ask you, because you did so much, really tough public speaking learning on the go, do you find that there are elements of your your time, you know, doing public speaking at the parks that you pull into your career as an artist that has helped you with speaking to people about your work, absolutely.
James McGrew: 1:14:32
And you know, on one hand, art should speak for itself, and you know, oftentimes it does, and a lot of artists are pretty shy and don’t like to go to show openings and things like that, or do a podcast like this, or teach a workshop, or get on stage at plein air convention and do a demo, or, you know, things, but I and I wouldn’t have had I not had that background in environmental education. Education and doing interpretation so much, I think it would, or at least I think it would have probably been a lot more difficult and but I mean, there’s it’s not just comfort and the ease of being able to talk to people. When it comes to doing an interpretive program, it’s a lot of years of learning the techniques to actually build it structurally and and really be able to maximize your ability to reach the widest audience, to really connect with those people, no matter where they are in the political spectrum or their cultural background, or where they’re coming from in the world their age, there’s just so many variables that come into play and and those things, maybe they come naturally to a lot of people, but at least for me, it took a lot of work and a lot of practice and a lot of learning from other masters at teaching and and constantly trying to learn those things. And I found them really important for especially teaching workshops, doing demos at events and and just talking to people at a show opening reception. Many, many people I’ve talked to have considered a painting, but when you’re talking about plunking down 1000s of dollars for a work of art, they want to know more than just what’s the signature on the painting, how pretty is the painting? What’s the status, what’s the you know, what’s the significance. They want a connection with the artist too, and they can read about it, they can listen to a podcast like this, but there’s no substitute for one on one, actual communications and seeing the artist process in the field, talking to the artists at a show, opening reception. And so many collectors have said that that was really important for them, and in many of my collectors, over time, have become very good friends, and I’m really grateful for those friendships, and obviously grateful for the sales, but I’m even much more grateful for the friendships that I’ve developed, and the fact that so many of them tell me that they just really love being able to See my work on the walls, and it takes them to whatever park it is that I have a painting of, and reminds them of their experiences there, or inspires them to go up again. And for me, that’s that’s the most valuable thing when they’re sharing those those meaningful feelings and moments and what the work does for them and how it inspires them to make changes, ultimately, beautiful.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:17:27
Yeah, yeah. I think there’s so much about, like you said, there’s so many young artists who are introverted, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I think many of us are quite introverted,
James McGrew: 1:17:39
but having I’m totally introverted. Oh yeah, me too, which is fine to learn how to break through that, you know,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:17:46
yeah, you have to. I mean, a lot of the career of being an artist, besides painting, which is honestly one of the hardest parts, but it is literally like the given right for the career, like you have to have good work. You also have to be personable. You have to know how to talk to other people. Have, you know, like, not be afraid to be vulnerable and connect with people and even face, you know, the tough criticisms that come with it, like, Oh, someone might literally come up to you and be like, Oh, your work is really bad. It’s like, Oh, thanks. You just you have to, like, be like, Oh, thank you. Why do you think that you know or, like, just, you know it’s gonna happen, and you have to learn to not take it personally. Like, there’s a lot of interpersonal relationships that happen as an artist, especially if that’s like, the career that someone is pursuing. Yeah, and actually, this segues perfectly into my next question, which is, what advice would you give to someone who wants to pursue being an artist as their career?
James McGrew: 1:18:50
Well, the kind of things we’ve kind of covered so far, so if I could just kind of summarize them, I mean, obviously, be authentic and true to yourself. That’s number one. And because if you’re trying to fake something, it’s just not going to work. You have to speak from experience, and you have to speak from the heart and paint what you know, you know. And that is really number one. Number two is just the mileage. There’s no substitute for time in nature. Time painting from life. Doesn’t matter what your subject is. You know, figure painters doing life drawings, life paintings in Figure sessions. I tell kids all the time, like, if you draw or paint with one hand and all you have is the other hand, we’ll draw that or your pet or your sibling or the view out your backyard window. And like, we can’t always be it’s expensive and it’s difficult to get to national parks, especially with, you know, the advent of social media and crowding that we have today and stuff. So we can’t always, like, go to these incredible places that are super inspirational. Like, we can find beauty every day all around us, and we can find subjects to draw and paint and. Right? And the purpose of working from life so valuable. And I always tell people don’t work from photographs until you’ve painted enough paintings and taking photos at the same time to be able to see where and how and why. The human visual processing system is different than a camera recording system. And then once you’ve done enough of that, you can really know how to manipulate and adjust photos and incorporate them, and there’s nothing wrong with using them. The greatest masters of the 19th century all use photography. No matter how well they could draw the human figure or the landscape, they still use photography, and it’s just a matter of being able to know when and how to make those corrections and adjustments. One other thing about the importance of painting in nature and spending time in nature is we talked about plan art painting. But there’s one thing to just go out and paint outside. That’s another thing to really be present when you’re out in nature. Slow down, focus on everything around you and just really be in touch with everything and open up all of your senses. Be really mindful and be aware of the way you feel, the way the sun is or the wind on your skin, the smells that you’re smelling, the fragrances the flowers that are blooming nearby, or the way that light changes and shifts, and the way that an animal moves, or the way a bird, you know, song is actually I’m hearing bird songs running right now, you know, singing, or all these different things that ultimately come into play, And there is no substitute for time in nature, painting and drawing direct from life, but also just observation, like Asher B Durand and like all these 19th century masters talk about the importance of just studying nature, and part of that is book studying. We talked about my school background, but way more important that is just the observation and really connecting and opening yourself up and being really present without being distracted with other stuff, or, you know, what’s going on in the internet, or your music you’re listening to, or whatever, we just really, really be present in that I have found to be invaluable with really slowing down and incorporating a lot more into my mind and experiencing more, seeing more along the way too. But then also, like we were talking about, the other side that’s really valuable is that interpersonal communication, being open, listening to everybody, incorporating other people’s perspectives and opinions and not taking things personally. You know, I mean, we’ve all done that. We’ve been there at times and taken criticism really painfully from a show rejection or a gallery rejection and or something not working out or appear, not recognizing your work or whatever. And like, I don’t really pay attention anymore on social media. And for a long time, a long time ago, it seemed like it did matter. But now I just use it when I I want to put something out there to try and connect people with the subject that I’m painting, you know, add the interpretive, environmental story behind my work, or help other artists with questions that they have about materials, techniques or or things like that. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s all about just helping others, listening to others, sharing, and trying to just tell the story that of what inspires my work. And then, of course, the the business side of just straight making sales. You know, you really I greatly value and respect and trust all of my galleries, and that’s a really important relationship. They trust me. We have good relationships. We know we’re not going to take each other’s sales or, you know, or undermine something. And you know, somebody sees a painting in a gallery, and you know, they see my work later, I will give the commission to the gallery, and the galleries know that, and I think that’s really important to build that trust. And I really genuinely, like all the people who are the directors and owners of my galleries, and it’s taken a long time working. I mean, it’s hard to even get into a gallery when you’re starting out and and it’s hard to find the galleries that you can trust and and I’ve had some less than favorable experiences of some galleries that were not trustworthy. And, you know, obviously I’m not in those galleries anymore, and but all the galleries that I’m in now, I really, really value those relationships, and so it’s important to find those connections that you trust. And then there’s the stuff that we can do, like we’re doing right now. FASO is an incredibly valuable tool, and it’s not just because you are interviewing me on behalf of FASO, but I do have to say that genuinely, the things that you guys do are invaluable to. Marketing into making sales from this podcast, listening to your interviews, listening to my friends and other artists that I’ve worked with. Some are, you know, just acquaintances. Some are really good friends that you interview, and it’s always fun to learn from them and gather more bits of information here and there, or just, you know, see, that’s so cool. You know, I watched their career develop, too, and but then also the marketing that you guys do on social media, your own marketing, the the collectors alerts. So when people sign up for my newsletter, which is the most important way to connect with my collectors, and you know my newsletters that I send out is the most important way that people get the majority of info for upcoming workshops, from upcoming shows, things that I’ve had happen and and then when people sign up for that, they also have the opportunity to sign up for new artwork alerts. And so every time I put a painting on my website, I get emails from people inquiring about a piece. And, you know, people buy paintings that way all the time, and most time they’re headed to galleries. So the galleries make the sales, and oftentimes before they even get there, and it’s because of the the artwork alerts that you guys put out there. So anyway, and every way that we can put our work out there is valuable and and I have to say it’s you guys are a really valuable tool in that, that that toolkit,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:26:31
yeah, well, we’re really happy to hear that. I also use all of the my websites, also FASO website, and objectively, you know, I know that I’m obviously, like their host for their podcast, but I also really benefit a lot from using a FASO website. And it’s just, it’s it’s intuitive, it’s easy to use, and they’re always improving it. The team is really great. It’s a small team. They’re always happy to help. And I think in the end, you know, that’s better than you know, going for a bigger company where, like, you’re talking to an AI Chatbot. No hate on AI chatbots, but I think talking to a real person is a million times better
James McGrew: 1:27:10
or trying to design something yourself. Like, you know, I’d much rather have a paintbrush in my hand and be out in nature than on a computer screen.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:27:16
So Exactly, yeah, even though now FASO does have both capabilities, because they have a Squarespace option, where that is a FASO site, but with, like, the capabilities of the Squarespace, like changing it however you want. But for the most part, I think it’s also, I’m totally with you. It’s like, but
James McGrew: 1:27:34
that’s a relatively new invention, like, when I first developed this website a long time ago, it was either learn code, hire a professional, or your guys’s templates, and that made things such an easy segue into being able to put my work out there without all the other stuff. You know, hiring a professional meant having to constantly interact with them as a third party, having the FASO website, you can do it on your own whenever you want, and that’s super, super valuable, without having to know how to do the coding most time.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:28:09
Yeah, exactly, yeah. They really got rid of the gatekeeping of like, oh, well, in order to be a professional, you need to have, like, certain money to hire a coder to do your website. Instead, it’s like, Oh, you just pay for a website, and you already have these templates, which super great again, for anyone who wants to save time and use that time in the studio, like many of us. But yeah, really happy that that you’ve enjoyed it. And actually, that’s my next question, which is, of course, on your website, I’m sure you have this information. But do you have a year would you like to tell us about your upcoming shows? Or do you have any upcoming workshops? Anything you got going on that you’d
James McGrew: 1:28:51
like to promote? Sure, thank you. So workshops, nothing really set right now, but I am discussing things and for a workshop in Yosemite. So if anybody’s interested, just have them send me a message to my website. I’ll be compiling a list, so I’ll make sure I get those people aware when we do start setting stuff up. But as far as upcoming shows, I have the California art Club’s gold medal exhibit this summer down in Southern California, the the art salon in New York at the summer as well, and then this fall, I have shows in Grand Canyon and Zion invitationals for those two incredible places. I always have an annual show at one of my galleries in Berkeley, Holton Studio Gallery. They have an annual all Artist gallery. They have an incredible group of artists, and they make these beautiful solid oak and walnut frames. So we just send them the paintings, and they make the frames. They design them for the work. And it’s incredible opportunity there. And then the most impressive thing I’m working on right now is for my solo show that opens at the Ansel Adams Gallery in Yosemite. And. And that actually opens on May the fourth, and it hangs for almost couple months. And so that’s like the painting behind me right now, and that’s what I’ve been working really long hours, like 12 to 15 hour days the last couple of weeks to get things together for that upcoming show. And then I always have to provide for my galleries, Del Monte fine art in Carmel and Holton in Berkeley, Worthington gallery in Springdale, right outside of Zion and and then, of course, the antelopes gallery in Yosemite. And so it’s kind of juggling all those things and planning things far enough out, but right now, it’s, it’s really intense for an upcoming solo show.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:30:48
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I thank you for being here despite I know how busy you’ve been. Seems like it’s been really hectic for you, so I’m really grateful that you were able to spare some some of your precious time for us here on the podcast.
James McGrew: 1:31:02
Thank you. My pleasure being here, and I really appreciate the opportunity, and I’m honored. And you know, it’s great to have the opportunity.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:11
Yeah, of course, it was wonderful. And actually, before you go, do you mind telling us what your website and social media are?
James McGrew: 1:31:17
Sure? So at James McGrew fine art for social and Facebook and Instagram. I’m working on others, but haven’t had the time to put those together yet on other platforms and then. But my main place to go that is updated by far the most frequently and is absolutely the most important way to connect, is my website, and it’s James McGrew, fine art, com,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:43
awesome, perfect. And I will include all of your links in the show notes as well. For anyone who’s just listening, go check out his work. It is absolutely breathtaking. Don’t miss out. And then if you can go see his work in person, real life, go check it out. So thank you.
James McGrew: 1:31:57
That is actually pretty important. Paintings do look different on screen than they do in person. I do a lot of work to try and create optical illusions with the working properties of my paint that can’t be replicated other ways.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:32:12
Just size wise, it really compresses everything into a different feeling. I mean that like you can’t really capture grandeur in such a small screen, you know, like you have to go see it in person. You know, as much as you can, if anyone really can afford to go do that or is nearby to one of the places where your work is for sure, go check.
James McGrew: 1:32:34
And another great opportunity with the website is the ability to write an artist statement for each painting and like, especially for my upcoming show here with all the interpretive environmental messages behind each important piece in the show, I do write a lot on the website, and that gives me wonderful opportunity to let people read all that information and make those connections so awesome. Be sure to read the interpretive stuff with it too.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:33:02
Yes, for sure, awesome. Well, thank you so much again, James, and I’m really happy it didn’t rain on us today outdoors, as you should be,
James McGrew: 1:33:13
started working outside and even on studio pieces more than 10 years ago, just because it’s closer to the plein air experience and don’t have to worry about when I do use solvents in the early stages of a painting. I don’t ever use solvents indoors anymore.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:33:27
So very smart, man. Yeah, thanks. Thank you so much. Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.
