Show Notes:
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On today's episode, we sat down with S.C. "Chris" Mummert, a full-time professional artist living in San Diego who specializes in American traditional Western painting with a dreamlike, romanticized quality. He shares with us his journey from aspiring artist to successful full-time painter, emphasizing the importance of discipline, continuous improvement, and strategic marketing. He discusses the challenges of transitioning from part-time to full-time art, as well as his unique creative process involving photo shoots, maquettes, and collaborations with galleries. Mummert stresses the value of feedback and experimentation, and encourages aspiring artists to embrace uncertainty and trust that the universe will support their authentic pursuits. He also speaks about the emotional impact of viewing art in person versus online, and the lessons he's learned from artistic masters like Norman Rockwell and his personal mentors. Finally, Chris tells us all about his amazing new book "The 30-Minute Artist", a book inspired by his own desire to build up his skill and discipline that he compares to a personal painting gym. The book is available now to purchase on Amazon! The link is in the episode description.
S.C. Mummert's book "The 30-Minute Artist":
https://www.scmummert.com/books
S.C. Mummert's Website:
https://www.scmummert.com/
S.C. Mummert's Instagram page:
https://www.instagram.com/mummertstudios/
S.C. Mummert's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/mummertstudios/
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Transcript:
S.C. Mummert: 0:00
If you're pursue, if you're if you're prepared to continually grow and grow and improve and improve, that will eventually, in some manner, lead you to that, to manifesting a level of excellence that that is going to be hard for everybody to deny, you know, and it'll just show up. Welcome
Laura Arango Baier: 0:22
to the bold brush show where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world. In order to hear their advice and insights. On today's episode, we sat down with SC Chris Mummert, a full time professional artist living in San Diego who specializes in American, traditional, Western painting with a dream like romanticized quality. He shares with us his journey from aspiring artist to successful full time painter, emphasizing the importance of discipline continuous improvement and strategic marketing. He discusses the challenges of transitioning from part time to full time art, as well as his unique creative process involving photo shoots, maquettes and even collaborations with galleries. Mat stresses the value of feedback and experimentation and encourages aspiring artists to embrace uncertainty and trust that the universe will support their authentic pursuits. He also speaks about the emotional impact of viewing art in person versus online, and the lessons he's learned from artistic masters like Norman Rockwell and his personal mentors. Finally, Chris tells us about his amazing new book, The 30 minute artist, a book inspired by his own desire to build up his skill and discipline that he compares to a personal painting gem. The book is available now to purchase on Amazon. The link is in the episode description. Welcome Chris to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?
S.C. Mummert: 1:52
Oh, well, doing doing good, absolutely. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:56
it's very early over there.
S.C. Mummert: 1:57
Yeah, of course. Well, it's not, it's not too bad I'm kind of an early bird anyway, so it's kind of nice to get an early start like this. So it's good, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 2:06
yeah, get the hard stuff out of the way as early as Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for being on the show, and I am so excited to have you, because I think your portrayal of the cowgirl of the American, traditional Western painting. I love your mix on it. I think the way that you do it is just, it's so precious. I feel like there's a dream equality to it. Instead of, instead of the more rugged way that some people might paint the West, you make it very Dream like, very much like what other people would romanticize the West to be about,
S.C. Mummert: 2:43
yeah, I think that's fair, you know. And it's been fun to do. It's, it's, you know, it's kind of a niche, you know, the old saying, riches are in the niches, you know. And so ideally, you know, you pick something that maybe touches your own heart, you know, and then kind of check the market to see if it, if the market feels the same way about it. And actually, it turned out that the market was very prepared for my kind of cowgirl will say, you know. And so that's that's been great, but I've actually lately been doing some stuff just outside of the West. But of course, I'm doing another painting that's very, very western right now, so I kind of go back and forth. Have fun doing it. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 3:27
yeah. And it looks like you the photo shoots, because I did see that you do have a bit of a process for creating your incredible images, and you do a lot of photo shooting, and you also seem to have a process that involves making the cats and dioramas. But wow, there's so much work that goes into that, and I think it's very commendable. But actually, before we dive into all of the nitty gritty, delicious details about that, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?
S.C. Mummert: 3:56
Yeah, you know it's, it's, I'll do my best so I'm a full time professional artist. I live in San Diego, and it took me a while to get here as a full time professional I am probably a good, I might be a good, I might be a good story for your audience. Because I know there are a lot of people that are that would like to be a professional at some point. Maybe they're not, but they're working toward that. And I did, you know, and so what happened with me? I wanted, I decided at 17 I wanted to be a full time professional artist, and then kind of life got in the way. I'll just say that. And then took me basically, you know, 30, over 30 years to get to the point where I finally decided, gosh, I'm going to make the jump, you know, I'm just, I just have to do this, you know. And so I left the I was running a family business, and I just walked in one day and handed the company, I had a company car. I. Piece of the business, of course, and everything. And went ahead and just handed that all over and made the jump. And, you know, just, you know, kind of burn my boats in a way, you know, where I just decided to just do this full time regardless, no pension coming in, no retirement, and just had a lot of support for my wife. And, you know, it's kind of terrifying, you know, for a lot of people. But on the other hand, I'd waited so long that I just decided to bite the bullet, because I was getting too old. I thought it's either now or never, you know, and so I went and did that. And it's remarkable, because when that happens, when you make that decision, I can honestly say that, because it's, like, I've said, it's, frightening to decide to do that, you know, because it used to have a mortgage and family and all the rest of stuff, but it's almost like the universe comes in around you and begins to support your efforts. And it's a little mysterious, you know, kind of how that unfolds, but it happened again and again and again in the process that I have to say it to your audience, because I want to encourage them. You know, that if that happens, if they choose to make that jump, they might be surprised how serendipitous it can be, you know, where things just kind of all kind of mesh together and begin to work in your behalf, you know? So that's kind of neat. But anyway, so I was trained. I received some remarkable training early on, and had all art had always been a part of my life. I was told I drew a stick man on my grandmother's brand new wallpaper. When I was three, I was a class artist. By the time I was in my in the second grade, I was doing commission portraits in pastel by the time I was 14. And so Art has always been kind of this thing in my life, you know. And so, and then when I went this part time thing, which so many people do, of course, I did too, for a very long time, you know. Then it turns into this kind of nights and weekend thing, you know. And again, did that for a long time. It was in galleries and so forth, and and then, like I said, finally, one day I went ahead, made the jump, you know, but, but that, that all kind of came together. One more thing I should, should say that as an example of how kind of the universe can come around and support you. One of the galleries that I was in in my part time phase, we'll say I met John Asaro. I'm not sure, just because we both know about the angel Academy of Florence. They actually have John sorrows, some of this artistic training tools there, like planes, the head and so forth. Well, anyway, I met John in John lives in the northern coastal section of San Diego, and so he and I were in the same gallery together, and we met, well anyway, about six months after I made the jump, he called me up and he said, I'm going to teach you everything that I know. So I here, I've got one of the top artists in the world, you know, that's going to go ahead and mentor me, you know. And I thought I knew a lot, you know. Otherwise I would have made the jump right? And I was surprised how much I didn't know, you know. And so John kindly went ahead and stepped in and plugged a lot of the holes that I had and taught me other things that I just plain, you know, you don't know what you don't know sometimes. And he went ahead and, like I've said, mentored me. In fact, I could still pick the phone up, and if I had an artistic question, he'd kindly answer and so forth, you know. So that we've had this long relationship that was made the jump 12 years ago, and so it's just been this wonderful relationship that we've had, and I'm honored to and privileged calling my friend, you know. And so that is an example of someone coming in, you know, the old saying is the when the when the student is ready, the teacher will show up, you know. And that was certainly my case. But also he was just a piece of the the mosaic, you know, the fabric that was kind of in place, coming around and supporting my efforts, too. And so that's maybe a long way around the barn to introduce myself, but that's hopefully that helps. That works. Okay,
Laura Arango Baier: 9:07
yeah, yeah, no. And I love that you mentioned how you did feel like the universe was supporting you. And it is very important to mention that to our listeners, because I think, like you said, so many people are afraid, right? They're afraid of making that jump. They're afraid of saying yes to uncertainty, because it is very scary, and the fact that everything seemed to align for you in the best way possible is evidence that the more authentic you are to your path and to your desires, the more likely it is that you'll get that support, like, almost, like, I don't know, like Gandalf showing up and helping Frodo, you know, it's very,
S.C. Mummert: 9:50
that's a, that's a brilliant analogy. Yeah, it's, you just, it's, it's surprising what happens, but it does happen, and, and I can testify to that, yeah, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 9:59
And. Other important thing that I like that you mentioned is you already had some right? You were already with a gallery. You were already putting in the hours and the painting time. You weren't just sitting around waiting for lightning to strike you and say, yeah, it's time. You were putting in the work.
S.C. Mummert: 10:17
Yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting because, of course, we can talk some more about that, but it's, I'm just going to say it, because I think it's fair. You know, your own work ethic, your own self discipline, will have a tremendous impact on your own success. I feel, you know, there's not going to be anybody to wake up and force you to go down to the studio and do this, you know? And ideally you don't need that anyway, but still, it's not there. And so you have to have a level of drive, you know, to go ahead and I would say, achieve, to achieve any success as, I mean, I, I'm an entrepreneur, I would say that any, any artist that's out trying to do will say, what I do you have to be you've got all these different hats you've got to put on, you know, where you've got your shipping hat, you've got your, you know, maybe your marketing hat, you've got all these different things that you got to do as an entrepreneur and so forth and so. You know that all takes a level of ambition and drive to go ahead and see that through. And you've gotta have that work ethic to make that, you know, to make that function. And that directly, to me, that directly correlates into, you know, how much success you experience on some level. I think there's, there's that, that interactive thing that, you know, my dad used to say, the harder you work, the luckier you got, you know. And I think that that's there's some truth to that, you know, if you have that, if you're all your sleeves up and you apply yourself because you love what you do, you know when that happens, then it's remarkable what can unfold, you know. And again, I've experienced that. I've been very privileged to be allowed to do what I love for a living, you know? Grateful,
Laura Arango Baier: 12:05
yeah, yeah. And also, you did, like you mentioned you had a bit of that example from your father, because, of course, it was a family automotive business, right? It was hard dealership, yeah, yeah.
S.C. Mummert: 12:16
Actually, what happened was my dad used on a Ford dealership, and he sold it in the mid 70s, and then kept a body shop from it, and he was running the body shop, and then asked me to come in and and help him run it, which I did, and then that's where I stayed too long. But, but, you know, I'm probably a much better businessman because of that, you know, as an artist, and so that that served me well, you know, but, but there was that constant yearning to to jump ship and get off that, you know. But, you know, sometimes you know that it's a bit of a traffic can feel like at times, because it becomes comfortable, you know, and you've got this routine and so forth. And so you might have this thing tugging on your heart, and so the direction, but, gee, this is paying the bills, and this is safe, you know, and so forth. And I'm not here to criticize anybody on that, because I sure did that for a long, long time. But, you know, it's a dream. A dream Dies Hard, you know. And you've got a dream about something, it's very, very difficult to see that thing. Just it's, you know, it's a bit remarkable how much power that dream has. And and then finally, you just go, you know, I think I gotta do this. And in fact, an interesting thing about that when I went ahead that we're doing collision repair work and warranty work and so forth for six new car dealerships in San Diego County at the time when I left, and one of the one of the main dealerships, the owner, I went to see him and thank him for all that he'd done for me personally and for our family and so forth. And when he heard I was, I'd left, you know, the family business, he said, Listen. He says, I'll tell you what. He said, I know, you know, you know the collision repair business. He says, I've got a lot of money. He said, How about I build you a state of the art collision repair facility from the ground up. We'll spend millions of dollars. We'll build this thing just for you. And he said, and he said, we'll split the money, 5050, right down the middle. And he said, well, both, we'll both do well and make, make a bunch of money. And I was kind of blown away. I thought, gosh, you know, what a tremendous compliment. How flattering, you know, for him to go ahead and make that offer to me, you know, who does that, you know. And so, so I was tempted, you know, to here, I'm going to have my own, my own body shop, you know, and it's, we're going to split the money. It's not going to be something for my parents. And I said, No. I said, I think I gotta do the art. And he says, Don't come back in two or three years. He says, because you're a hot commodity now. I said, No. He said, I, I've gotta give this art a try, you know. And so I didn't. So that's why I said earlier about, you know, you burn your boats at the you know, it's, it's the old story about the general up on the clip, you know, with all of us is. Uh, you know, troops. And he's they look down at all the boats on the shore, you know, and and they're all being set ablaze, you know, because the the general said, told some guys to go ahead and burn those ships. And he turned to his troops, and he said, Listen. He said, It's win or die, you know. I mean, it's either, either worried they're going to make it or we're going to die trying. And that, in some ways, that's what happened to me, you know, where I just decided, right then, when he offered me my own facility with all the in the money that that would would bring, you know, I decided to go and burn my ships and just give it my all. And again, that brings me circles me back around to say it's remarkable how the universe can kind of come in behind you when you make that choice.
Laura Arango Baier: 15:45
Yeah, and what I love about that is, I was going to ask you, actually, what was your breaking point? And I guess the breaking point was precisely that you were about to receive an opportunity that didn't fit with you right, didn't fit with your vision, didn't fit with your deepest desires. And that was the moment of cutting loose and saying, If I do this, I'm stuck, you know, if I feel like, that's probably what went through your head, like, if I, if I say yes to this, I am going to be stuck in this, and I won't be happy. Is that probably what you had in mind? Well, it's
S.C. Mummert: 16:16
it, you know, we'll talk about my book maybe in a bit, but, but really, a lot of my book deals with fear. Because I think that everybody, especially artists, I would say, you know, we contend against fear. You know that can, that can involve a brushstroke, you know, they're afraid to pull that brushstroke across that someone's, you know, maybe a portrait, and you've got to pull that breaststroke on the nose. It's got to be just right, you know, whatever. But the point is, we're always bumping up against this, this fear, which, of course, involves making a huge career change, you know, and so forth. So it's all this, this constant battle against, especially the unknown, you know, the fear of the unknown. And again, I've got tremendous compassion for anybody that's out there trying to do that. I interesting thing. I went to Scottsdale at one point. Used to be, in my opinion, used to be the kind of the center of the universe for Western art, you know. And I went ahead and went there probably about almost 40 years ago, and just bumped, stopped in there to what, at the time, was one of the top galleries. I mean, it's not quite the Western showcase, Western art showcase, that it used to be, but it was back then. And I went in and talked to one of the lead galleries managers, and he told me something interesting at the time. He said, You know what? He said, 85% of the art that's on the walls here in this gallery. So here's this top powerhouse Gallery, and he said 85% of the art that's on the walls is from part time artists, not full time. And so he said just about 15% are full time art full time artists, which, of course, I am today. And so that was actually encouraging to me, because I found I thought, gosh, you know, that's great, because you have all these people that are working and, you know, endeavoring to get to that point of being a full time professional. And again, my I'll just refer my book, just for a second. The the book was written about a season that had probably the, well, one of the biggest, if not the biggest, transformational seasons in my life. It's about that time when I went from, you know, my desire to be a professional, and it moved me a lot closer to making that jump. And I thought, gosh, you know, there's, it's a bit of a testimony in that regard, you know, because you have all these people, we'll just say, the 85% that are in galleries, which is quite a feat to even get in a gallery. And so there they are. And I'm just, I'm trying to encourage people that, gosh, there are ways and methods that you can kind of make that jump, and then, ideally, if you've got the courage and support, you know, takes fan, friends and family so forth, to come around you and say, I think you can do this and make that channel. I've done it all. I've done
Laura Arango Baier: 19:03
all that. Yeah, and before, actually, before we dive into your book. Because I think actually, the question I'm going to ask you right now is very much tied into that, what would you say was the biggest challenge that you faced when you were working your day job and painting at the same time? What was the hardest part?
S.C. Mummert: 19:22
You know, that's a brilliant question. I think that the hardest thing. So I'll do this. So, so this gallery I was referring to that John OS happened to be in, they offered me a one man show. Of course, I never had a one man show. I thought, Gosh, this is fabulous, you know. And at the time, I was doing a lot of, like, early California impressionist landscapes, it just, I was really drawn to those guys and doing a lot of outdoor painting and so forth. But anyway, they wanted 36 paintings. Well, that's a lot of paintings, you know that they're small. Most of them were small. So I thought, okay, you know. And so I went ahead and start. Started working. Working on accumulating, you know, a bunch of paintings for this show. And I didn't have room in my studio at the time to go ahead and store all those paintings, so I would take them down to the gallery, and they had racks that they could take and put the art in as I build up, built up to that the 36 paintings, excuse me. And so what happened? I was dropping paintings off, and I looked, and some paintings were missing, and they said, oh yeah. And they were selling the paintings that I'm dropping off, and they're going to pay me on the 10th or whatever. But the point is, you know, things are getting sold. And finally, I went to the gallery owner. I said, You got to knock this off, because, you know, there's only I'm a part time guy, got a full time job, and so there's a lot of effort and struggle to get the 36 paintings in here. Like saw my legs up, so so she agreed to go ahead and stop selling the paintings. You know, it's okay, fine. But what it did, it put a lot of pressure on me as the deadline approached. And so the last two weeks, so this gets to the point the last the last two weeks, I'm trying to keep my word. And so the last two weeks, I'd work all day and then come home, grab a bite to eat, and then paint all night, and then go to sleep at like five in the morning, sleep for an hour, get up at get up at six, and then get all ready, and then go to work again and do it all over again, so I would live. And I was a lot younger, and you can only do that so long, you know, so but like, the last two weeks, I went in and did that, and it's a bit odd because I experienced it, of course, but it's a bit odd because there's a strange euphoria that comes over you that doesn't make sense, that you think you just get burned into the ground, you know? But there's when, when you, especially when you do a successful painting, and you see this thing, and you have kind of this victory, you know, we'll say. And a lot of them turned out really quite well in that instance, and oddly. And so what happened? So while I was doing that, I wasn't as tired as we might think I should be, and that's a little strange. There's like, endorphins or something that are happening. I don't know how to describe that, but, you know, but I pulled it off. But see that that whole, that whole thing, transpired because I was part time. You know that that happened because of her selling paintings, but, but a lot of that happened because I was trying to work operate in in two worlds, at a foot in one world and a foot in the other. And then that put added pressure on me to go ahead and do both. And then, of course, you you give it all, you got to keep your word, maybe, and, and so that's kind of how that went. But so there's there's that. I will also add that the part time Chris there is no way, and maybe some people can do this. I can only talk about myself, but the part time Chris artist could never compete with a full time Chris artist, it just that to me that cannot happen, and a lot of it has to do with the structure of my own, the regimentation that I have, the systems I have in place that I can operate in right when I get up in the morning. There are things that I can choose to do and so forth that are structured to try to make me a better artist tomorrow than I am today. And a lot of that is that scaffolding that I've got this setup is is only doable because I can do this full time, and I can step right into my studio and begin to operate this way, as opposed to get ready and go off to, you know, you know, a job that can feel like war at times. And you go out to that, and then you come back and and, gosh, maybe you're, you're spent, you know, maybe you're, you're wrung out, you know, from all that effort during the day. And then you come, oh, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to do all that, okay, you know, and you can, but it's not quite the same. And so I've seen a huge transformation within my own life and doing art and seeing I've had people comment actually, that they watched my art improve, which is very gratifying for me to hear. But it's, but so from part time to full time, because I've lived it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's quite different, yeah, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 24:19
And it's, I like that you make it very clear that you were definitely not doing what was best for you in terms of proper rest and proper, you know, all of these things. But I like that it was still gratifying in the end to see that you were able to accomplish that goal, which actually I wanted to ask if maybe that is partly why you titled your book the 30 minute artist.
S.C. Mummert: 24:44
Yeah, you know the 30 minute artist. What? What happened for me? I was, I'm hanging around the cowboy arts of America at the time and again, I don't do just Western art, but, but obviously I was, I still do, and it was very. Much interested, particularly back I think it was like the early 90s, 1991 something like that. And so I went to Phoenix, where the cow bears of America had the show. And I had a friend of mine who was a gold medal winning sculptor, and he introduced me to an illustrator, which actually a lot of the ranks in the cow Barris back then, were filled by former illustrators out of New York and Connecticut and so forth. And they kind of moved west and populated the Western art market at that time. And I met Tom Ryan, what a sweet, wonderful man. And he went ahead, and I just had some dumb Polaroids in my work at the time and showed them to him. And he said, you know, he said, You need to go outdoors and paint. I'm thinking, okay, you know, you know, he says, just, he said, just do little, small paintings, and just spend about a half an hour, 30 minutes on him and and eight by 10, I'm eight, nine by 12, something like that. And he said, and just see what happens. I thought, Ooh, big deal, you know. Okay, well, I can, I can do that well, you know. So the book's based on that. It's what that really became a remarkable journey. It's like he tipped the first domino, you know, and all these dominoes tipped over, and that success succession. And so the book is about that. And there's these, basically these 30 minute exercises and and these 30 minute exercises, it's very doable, it's hard, it's hard work, you know, but it really had a gigantic impact on me. It took because I was largely studio trained, and your studio environment is very controlled, you know, and, and it's interesting, because the original guy that mentored me, that taught me, he was a commercial artist out of Chicago, and he used to paint under Haddon sunblo, who did a lot of the Coca Cola ads and so forth. And just a titan within commercial art. Well, one of his guys came out to San Diego and taught four young men. He had a regular an academy running, but he actually mentored four young guys, and I was one of them, and he's one of the guys that actually taught me how to paint, sunlight and so on and so forth. But anyway, the point is, I've got Tom Ryan telling me, Well, you need to go outdoors and paint. And so I came back to San Diego, and I'm in a big hurry to give that a try, you know. And I started telling his name was Alex. I started telling Alex, and Alex was discussed that he says all great art is produced in the studio. And I, I just listened to him patiently and didn't let him affect me, you know. And, but finally, he went ahead and started helping me with with some of the process, you know, and, and that really, that that whole season of these 30 minute exercises and so forth, he helped me, Alex helped me with some of the equipment and what have you, but that that, really, when you're outdoors and painting, everything is going wrong. It's just winged insects are flying by. The sun's moving. It's not stable, especially, of course, in a sunny day and so forth. And there's all this stuff you have to overcome, you know, that's not in the studio, and it makes you kind of bulletproof. And I was really kind of a, I was a bit of a sissy, you know, in the studio myself, you know. And when I went outdoors, that makes it toughens you up, you know. I I'm downtown, in downtown San Diego, in the gas lamp quarter, doing street scenes, you know, painting those. And I've got homeless people coming up, just about drooling on my shoulder, you know. And, and I'm looking, whoa, you know. And I so I just okay, and they're nice. It was funny, but here I am, I'm painting, and you know, you that's not happening in the studio. And so, you know, all this stuff really kind of rounds your corners out, you know, and makes you really, in many ways, a better, more resilient artist. And but there, there's more to it than that, but it's there. They're all these things that kind of come together that, really, I would say, on some level, you know, professionalize you, you know, you just, you really become more you. It just toughens you up, you know? And it does you begin to, and it's, this is also my book, but you can, you can test it becomes a test bed for colors, for brushes, you know, it for compositions, or using a palette knife, you know, on and on it goes. And because, if you're doing these little, small paintings, and I was doing like one at five a week, so every work night, I would stop before I came home and do a half an hour painting and come home, and so, you know, you let's, let's try this color this week. Okay, well, then you try that and, and a lot of this, again, is overcoming your fear of experimentation and and, and just growing and. What happens? There's this radical explosion in growth, because you're, you're starting to experiment. And there was a, one of the top guys in Western art, I've sent a studio, and just a brilliant painter, I think, you know, but very total. And I'm talking to him, and he says, you know, Chris, he says, I just added cadmium orange to my palate, and I'm like, Ooh, thank you, God, you know, dude, you probably should have, it's not that tough, you know. How about you throw it in there, give it a shot for a week, you know. But, you know, took him a few years to actually add that to his palette, you know. And so anyway, I got a kick out of that, but it didn't seem to hurt his work too bad, even before that, you know, but he was still doing well, but, but it's really about again, overcoming our own fears and so forth, and being less afraid to go ahead and to expand our, you know, our to try and grow without being subdued by our own fears,
Laura Arango Baier: 31:02
yes, yes. And I think also the bonus out of that too is you start building that discipline of painting every day.
S.C. Mummert: 31:09
That's a brilliant point. That's absolutely true as well. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because I also, I'm going to say this because it kind of surprised me when I found out I, you know, I'm starting to hang around some of these top artists in the, in the in the business, you know. And some of these guys are just taking, take a razor blade, cut up their art, their paintings. I was mortified. And I'm, I'm just going, you got what you just do, you know? Because I'm thinking, that's a pretty good painting. And next thing, you know, it's cut up and in the trash can I want, I don't know that I could ever do that to a big, major piece of art. But anyway, these guys are, they have that in them, because I've seen it, and on a much lesser scale. You know what happened was, I was painting on these little canvas panels, which I suggest in the book. But part of the growth in that was that if the pain didn't turn out, which a lot of them didn't, if the pain didn't turn out that day, you just frisbee that thing, you know, and you throw it away, and you it's it's remarkable how freeing that becomes when you go ahead and understand that you are the product, not the painting, that it's really more important for you to grow than to make the next masterpiece. You should try to do the very finest painting you can. But there's a hierarchy where you understand that you're what you getting better is a lot is much more important than you making the next greatest painting. And so because once you become a better artist than every painting that you do afterward will, in fact, improve. And so that that understanding, that hierarchical understanding, is critical. And so if you can go ahead and frisbee some of those things, and keep the ones that you think are worthwhile, that are maybe you know something that where you're better this week than you were last week, and keep that as a landmark, not that it's a great painting, but it's maybe proof you know that you're improving, and you hang on those, but just have it within you to not take a razor blade to them, but just, you know, to get rid of these. They're they were cheap at the time, and they're like, 30 cents or something at the time for the panel. But the point is, be prepared to discard that because they're just a learning tool. They're just a method to make you a greater artist, a better artist.
Laura Arango Baier: 33:30
Yes, yes. Bravo. And also, you bring up such an important point of disconnecting ourselves from our work in a way we can't like. I feel like a lot of artists, I've fallen for this as well, where you make a great painting one day and you're like, I'm amazing, and then the next time you make a really crappy painting, you're like, I'm the worst scum of the earth. And I think that that roller coaster of emotion needs to be tempered with that razor blading of the work. And, you know, realizing that my work isn't me, I think that that's that's such a really important point that you bring up,
S.C. Mummert: 34:03
yeah, well, thanks for I'm glad that you put that so well, you know, yeah, it's, we have to be prepared to understand that, you know, in some ways, you know, we're, in fact, this is a little hard To understand, but I would say it's valid and true. We're more important in the work. In fact, it's interesting because I just made a trip back back east and saw some of my heroes. You know some of their work, they're deceased, but you know, you can have a piece of you. We'll use John Singer Sargent as an example, because I'm sure a lot of your audience will will know Him. You know the fact that John Singer Sargent did a small sketch, and you get a small sketch by John Singer Sargent, you go, yay, I got something that John Singer Sargent Did you know. And I would love to have that personally, but so there's that. But the point is, John Singer sergeant is more important than the sketch. Of his that I've got so the artist, in fact, in the final analysis, they are more important than maybe the art that they do. The art is tremendously I mean, I'm glad they did it. I love it. I am lifted up by it. But really, in the end, who did it is more important than what they did, necessarily. I mean, in the long term and the overarching view of things, I think, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 35:28
yeah. And I think there are a lot of examples in that of that with many painters, you know, like, also like Da Vinci or Michelangelo. You know, there are so many out there who were considered, quote, unquote geniuses. And they could have been. But also, I think it is in the work that they did, right, like you mentioned, it's it's all in where it comes from, rather than the painting itself, because even they improve over time. And I think limiting someone by the quality of their work makes it seem more like a stagnant thing than, uh, that eternal, Sisyphean climb up the mountain that we all seem to feel when we paint, right, right.
S.C. Mummert: 36:12
That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I had the privilege of going through Italy, you know, I think I talked about that before, but, and it's low mind blowing. What those guys did you know and, and, in fact, it's, it's, this is, well, I don't want to get too far afield on that, but, yeah, it's, it's, we still Michael Angelo, the quote that I've, I've read, is that he was 89 and said, I'm still learning, you know. And so here you got this guy, the Sistine Chapel. It's just like mind blowing, you know, the pita, the you know, the David, and on and on it goes. You know, all these mind blowing pieces of of art that this guy did, and he's humble enough to say, you know, what, I'm still learning, and isn't that just a fabulous place to remain? I think there's greatness just in that to try and understand we wake up each day, and ideally, we put in the effort to be better today than we were yesterday, by learning and being that humble to receive that, you know, listen,
Laura Arango Baier: 37:19
definitely, yeah. And I think that's also it really differentiates, you know, the people who are really passionate about it and the people who maybe just enjoy it as a side thing, right? And there's nothing wrong with both paths, of course, but I think there's that really differentiates the the Craftsman that is obsessed with the craft versus the person who you know just does it for fun, and that's cool, yes, yeah. And actually, just reminded me of a quote that I like to think about very often. I don't know who said it, but it, it is all mastery. Is self mastery, and I think you just with with you, describing your book and how things have turned out in your life, it that quote just comes to mind perfectly, because that discipline is self mastery, and then painting itself is self mastery, and even just putting aside those 30 minutes a day, that's self mastery, because you have to tell yourself, this is what we're doing now, I don't care if You're tired. I don't care if all of these other things you can make, all the excuses, the bugs, the hobos, the this, the that we're painting, yeah,
S.C. Mummert: 38:28
we're going to the gym. Yeah, we're going, I don't care. I'm going to the gym. That's why it felt you know, it's like an artistic gym. You know that you're going to every day?
Laura Arango Baier: 38:38
Yeah? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I like that. I like that comparison, because it's very true. You know, there was those days you're like, I don't want to go, but I'm going to do it because it's for for my own good, right? You're putting something higher up in the goal list. You
S.C. Mummert: 38:52
know, I'll tell you an interesting thing too, that was a little remarkable. I mean, I've spent some time in the gym over the course of my life. But the point is, there are times when you end up you go to work, maybe, of course, the busiest time in the gym is usually like, after five o'clock. You know, a lot of people are going to hit the gym before they go home and so, but you know, of course, I've done that too. But what happens, you know, you show up and you're beat and, you know, you just get me home and let me get my feet up, you know, but you just decide, you make a decision, I'm going, No, I'm going to, I'm going to just go to the gym. And a funny thing happens very often, with regularity, you know, you just, you find out that within about 15 minutes, 10 or 15 minutes, something, it's not too long that after you're in there and you're pushing the weight around, or you're doing some exercise, whatever, all of a sudden, gosh, I I feel pretty good. You know, I feel a lot better now than when I drag myself into the gym, you know, all of a sudden, again, maybe it's endorphins, I don't know, to say physiologically, but the bottom line is that there is a feeling of. You just feel better. And a funny thing, the same it's there's there was, I've ran into it again and again. That same element showed up while I would go out and paint, you know, this art gym. I'm talking about this outdoor art gym, maybe. And so if I went ahead and was true to to the schedule and show up just like to the gym, that same element of feeling better a few minutes in than I did when I showed up to paint, showed showed up. And so I'm happy to say, because sometimes it didn't feel good to be out there. But if you're if you go ahead and just make it happen. All said, you go, Hi. I think this is kind of neat, you know, and it's, it's rewarding. I think that's great,
Laura Arango Baier: 40:47
yeah, yeah. And of course, the long term reward is even greater from all right, you know, the little increments of work that you put in. And I think it's really funny that you mentioned that, you know, you don't want to the beginning, and then maybe 15 minutes in, like, you can't stop. I trick myself into doing stuff like that. I just tell myself, it's, it's five minutes, just, just give it five minutes. And then after five minutes, you know, I can't stop. So, yeah, so it's very
S.C. Mummert: 41:15
true. So my, so I, so I've got a similar trick, because, you know, we all, we all bump into that, you know, because we just have better stuff to do than to paint. Even though we were supposed to paint, we need to paint all that. I've yearned to paint, but, you know, there's just other stuff that you have to do. You don't end up painting. And so I found out that if I just get a brush in my hand, I go, Mama, just put a brush in your hand. And so once I get a brush in my hand, and then I kind of AIM myself and make a few structure, whatever. Then all of a sudden, it's like this weird thing just kind of spools up, you know, next, you know, like you said, you know, three hours go by and you go, Wait a minute. I I felt more like a half an hour or something. It's like there's this time warp, you know, that happens because you just fall off that cliff, in a way, and start having a blast here, or get lost maybe in what you're enjoying doing funny. It is,
Laura Arango Baier: 42:05
yeah, yeah. And it's very encouraging, because I feel like for so many people, you know, tying it back to maybe the person who's afraid of doing it, right? It's funny because it's you can make it simple for yourself, like that. You can lift up some of those obstacles, like you said, just put a brush in your hand, or make sure that your studio is tidied up. And like you, you have an empty canvas that's waiting for you so that you're not making all these excuses and not resisting it.
S.C. Mummert: 42:34
Yeah, I think, yeah. So there's, there's commonality in that. And funny that you said that I you know you think you're the only one, and find out, you find out, no, no, no. I think a lot of people wrestle with that, you know. So yeah, great to hear Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 42:47
and it's great to hear it from you. It's true, very successful, and it's good to know that you know, even people who could be you know someone else's hero, right? Even your heroes struggle with that resistance, even though we all like, it's funny, because we love to paint. This is what we love. We love to create an image. We love to do these things. So sometimes it can be kind of upsetting and hurtful when you find yourself not doing it right, it feels like, Oh, am I really an artist? Why can't I, like, some of the courage to do it, or basically just bringing yourself down, but it's good to know that it's not, it's not just me, yeah, maybe some in the audience.
S.C. Mummert: 43:31
It can feel daunting, you know, but I think there's, there's, there's something within us that I think it's awakened maybe when we when we apply ourself and kind of jump in, you know, to that end of the pool and, and next year, you know, we're going, Wow, I think I'm glad I did this. I'm glad, I'm glad I showed up at the gym.
Laura Arango Baier: 43:52
Yes, yes. The painting gym, very important. Exactly, yes. Apple brush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that's BOLDBRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special ink FASO.com/podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal considering that you. Get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today, right now in order to get your artwork out there and seeing by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast. That's FASO.com/podcast. And then this actually brings me to a very interesting question, because you've had extensive experience, you know, in the business side, having been in your family business, how has the maybe the marketing side of that tied into your career as an artist? What have you found has been the best marketing tool that you've used that
S.C. Mummert: 46:03
is that should probably be everybody's question that we need to ask ourselves, what happened to me? So, what happened to me about I'll make it up here, because it's, it's, it's almost like I can't tell what a year is anymore, because a year goes by. For me, it feels like about 90 days or something. It's just, it's pretty odd, but so I'll just say, like four years ago, maybe five years ago, I I became disgusted with my own lack of understanding about marketing, and so I went ahead and put the brushes down for, I think, like, six weeks, which is quite a spell, and then began to just read everything I could and try to immerse myself into this and really get a better understanding on marketing, and which helped all that was beneficial. Then I went ahead and found a couple of coaches. I, in fact, I'm still working with a guy out of Australia, and there's another guy out of I was, I was getting coached by two guys whenever, out of Australia, the other guy out of Atlanta, Georgia, and I'd have these weekly coaching sessions, you know, when they were helping me with marketing and and that transformed me also, because there's, it's, it's, it's very comprehensive, actually, and what happens when you begin to understand and get a better grip and and dig into marketing? It actually helps you in the creation of your art. You wouldn't think it would necessarily, but what it begins to do, it helps you start to get a grip on your audience that you're creating the art for. And so, for example, like, we'll just use Nashville that maybe that's the center for country western music. We'll say those guys know exactly what their audience is, you know, I and when they craft a song for their audience, and they they're making a song that they enjoy, that they love making, but they also understand what their listeners and what their audience, what will appeal to them. And so it's a win, win. And so what happens once you begin to understand marketing and maybe building an avatar, or the kind of person you're, in fact, trying to create your product for, and so forth? And I'm not saying make something that you don't like. That's not my point. But the very, the very best thing that can happen is that you find something that you enjoy making, and you find out it's also happens to be something that the audience is seeking. And so when you, when you, when you have that convergence like that, which is happening in my own life, frankly, right now. So when that, when that happens, then you have the best of best of everything, because it's all synergistic, you know, and so but that a lot of that understanding with with marketing so forth, continues to affect almost everything that I do right now, including concepts for paintings and so forth. And, you know, that creative element that's, it's a little mysterious even to me. You know, that how you can kind of put all this together and and go to sleep and wake up in the morning, you got an idea that maybe you didn't have when you went to sleep, and maybe your subconscious and work on that whatever. I don't know. But the bottom line is that something pops out, but this marketing element actually influences that as well. You know, whatever you whatever pops out of, you know, and then that again, affects what you end up producing. And so as far as marketing, so what happens is, this is, this is interesting, because marketing will always take time. Marketing won't take time now the marketing the time could be you, besides some easels at the at a park with your work, and you're talking, you're interacting with people that may walk by in the park, and you maybe you're talking to them about, you know, them buying your art. That's taking time. Took time to set the easels up, to drive there, set your art up, and so forth. Time. So there's all that investment of time. So that same. Same little micro example of is can be applied to almost everything you There's always time spent to end up being a success in art via via some marketing vehicle. In that vehicle can be the that thing in the park. It can also be a gallery. The gallery is simply a vehicle to market your art. A show can be a vehicle to market your art, and so on, so forth. So as long as we understand the vehicle and the price we're going to pay, whether it's time or a percentage that you give away of money rather than your time to stand there, you know so forth, it's all picking a vehicle and what's going to be the most successful fit for you? Maybe it's time on Facebook, you know. Maybe it's, you know, however that's done. Maybe it's social media, like, I'm something, you know, it's, it's finding the vehicle that fits your own pre elections. And you know what you feel is going to be your time spent best with your you know, your personality, and that's all. That's all marketing. And in my particular instance, I work hand in glove with the galleries that I'm in, and we it's pretty remarkable, because it takes a very special gallery to work with me. I'll just, I'll just say that, and that's, that's no criticism against anybody else. It's It's just what I what we have. Part of the reason why I have, I would say I would assign my success to is that I have galleries that I can take and give concepts to and they will spend the time to take these concepts and maybe I'll give them maybe eight concepts. I'll pick the number eight, and I'll say, well, here these are concepts that I've come up with. What do you think about that? And what they'll do is they'll actually take their high net or ultra high net worth clientele that they have this relationship with that. I don't have that they've gone ahead and fostered and poured themselves into, but they'll take the initiative to go ahead and run those concepts past their clientele, and then the clientele will say, Well, I think these I don't like because I like them all. But that doesn't mean that the clients will the people with the money. And so they'll go ahead and say, well, here I these. And maybe they'll pick three or four out of the eight that are winners. And so then I'll go ahead and produce the three or four paintings, we'll say, and I know you'll be shocked to hear they're selling before they're off the easel, in many cases, because they're virtually pre sold. In fact, I had, there's a national show here in the west coast that wanted me in the show, and a guy got a hold of me on behalf of the the guy running the show, and he said, Well, here we we just want a painting. He's mom. He says, I don't care what it is, we just want one of your paintings in the show. And I said, Well, gosh, that's flattering. I said, I don't have anything. And he said, Come on, every artist has got paintings hanging around their studio. I said, dude. I said, I don't I said, Come on over here's a local guy that called me. And he said, No. I said, his name was Mark. I said, Mark, come over to the studio. You find a painting you can put in the show. I said, I'm wiped out. The only painting I have is on the easel. Now, that's a any he said, really? I said, Mark, yes, you know. And I said, if it wasn't that way, something's wrong, you know? Because, because I want, I want, that's the level of success that I hope for, you know. And so in the good news is that I'm, I'm very blessed that that's been happening that way. And but I'm trying to give you kind of a glimpse behind the scenes of the mechanics that. So there's this marketing stuff that's affecting the way that I create the concepts. And I get feedback from my galleries as well. They'll tell me, well, they don't like this, and this is why they didn't like it, but they'd like this, and this is why they like that and so forth. So I'm getting all this live feedback, and I feel that all success is based on a all progress. I'll just say it this way, all progress is based on a on a feedback loop, on an accurate feedback loop. So if you so I couldn't even walk to my car, if I did, if I closed my eyes, which are my feedback loop? If I if, if if I try to walk to my car, maybe my hands become my feedback loop or a stick, you know, and I can try and find my way to my car, but it's all based on feedback, and that's critical to an artist, because what happens if we don't have feedback, if we and that could be, that could be feedback from someone standing At at their easels in the park, and people are and they're talking, then they're interacting, and they'll say, Well, gee, you know, I like this landscape here, but I don't like the dog you painted here. Well, why not, you know, and then you can start to get this feedback. So that's all that will all benefit you. And maybe sometimes we don't like hearing that, but I think it's all. Official. I think even the bad stuff will help us, you know, be we can go, Well, I don't think I'm going to do that again. We can, we can learn. But it's all based on this, on this feedback. And my galleries are very, very efficient and very good at doing it with me. And not every galleries prepared to do that. There was a gallery I I was up in Carmel, California, which is an amazing small town. You have you been there? So good things. It's amazing. And it's just this high net worth, we'll just say, very charming town that has, last time I was up there, they had 82 galleries in this little, small area. So it's just mind blowing. And so I poked my head in. I was actually asking marketing questions to one of the sales guys in this large gallery up there. And they said, well, here just and so he introduced me to the owner, I thought. And I said, Listen, I'm an artist. I don't want to take your time, you know, if you're busy, please, you know, I'll let you go. Oh no, no. And so they wanted to talk to me. And so then, well, what you're an artist, let me see your art. And so the easiest thing these days is to whip your phone out, you know, and you can show somebody a picture of your art. Well, the next thing I know, they've got the other owner in, and they've got me back in a room, and they want to carry my art, you know. And which, I mean, wow, that's very flattering. I appreciate that. And so we're talking about percentages and all that stuff, you know. Okay, well, we'll see. Well, as it turned out, the reason why I bring that up, as it turned out, they were not prepared. They said, what they said? They said, Listen, you make 10 paintings, and then we'll pick six out of the 10 that we like, and we'll take the six. And I thought, well, if I do 10 paintings, I want all 10 to sell. I don't want to just have four back in my studio, right? And so, and I said, Well, you know, I need okay, because every region and market is different. So Carmel will have a different market than Santa Fe New Mexico. And Santa Fe New Mexico will have a different market than downtown New York City, you know, so important, and so you ideally, you're creating just like the Nashville with the country western, you know, you're creating product that's going to be a success in that market. And they weren't willing to spend the time to give me the feedback to be a success. I felt, you know, in their market, and I understand that I'm not here to criticize that. It's just that I I'm looking for a gallery, and actually, in fact, I'm fortunate to work with galleries that will invest that time, and it's been very successful for both of us. Frankly,
Laura Arango Baier: 57:37
that makes sense. Yes, it does. And it's so funny that you mentioned, you know, that you give the the gallery, like, your list of ideas, and then they test those, right? That's essentially what with a lot of product marketing, is they, they get test groups, right, to test out a product and how it's the colors on it, the flavor, the everything. That's basically what, what you did,
S.C. Mummert: 58:01
right? Yeah, and it's, it's, it's been powerful, frankly, you know. And again, you know, we'll get, we'll get collectors that will take and they'll say, Well, I, you know, they'll, they'll see the progress. I'll actually take some progress shots and send them to my gallery. And the gallery will go ahead. We'll just for galleries. We'll go ahead and show the progress shots along the way, and then someone will say, Well, I know I want that, you know. And here's not done, and makes it nice, you know, because you're not, it's not sitting on the wall for two years, you know. And you're kind of going, Oh, why is that thing still there? So it's been very wonderful, and it helps the cash flow too. And I'm going to dovetail that into something else too, because I don't, I tend not to do shows. And the reason, and I have, I've been very, very, I mean, it's, it's been very blessed to take and have shows contact me to want me to be in the shows. And I always tell them, I I'm so humbled that you even think of me. I appreciate that, you know, but, but I tell them, you know, I don't think I'm going to do that, because, again, a show is a vehicle, and so it happens. So if the show is going to go ahead and sell my art, well then I have to go ahead and sandbag the art. I've got to go ahead. I can't just have this constant cash flow. Do a do a painting, sell it. Do a painting, sell it. Do a painting, sell it. Now it's do a painting, park it. Do a painting, park it. Do a painting, park it. And add and collect inventory so that I can finally go ahead and oh, the deadline for the show is coming up. Yay. I've got three to five paintings. I crate those babies up and I ship them, hope nobody puts a forklift throw them on the way, you know, to the to the show, which happens. And, and I've had art damage from shipping to a show. And then, and then I had one show that just wouldn't give up on me. And I'm talking to one of them, and, and this, this very sweet. Girl. And she said, Listen, we want you in the show. We want this. We want and then finally, so I said, this is what I can send you. We'll keep talking. Appreciate that. I I'm sorry, I'm a bit busy, but let's do this. We can, we can do this. And she said, Okay, now we'll need you there the night of the opening. We'll need you this one and all these stipulations. I said, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. So what you're saying is I have to go ahead and pay airfare, hotel, rental car, you know, food, all you know, not paint. You know, I'm not at my easel, so I'm not productive while I'm doing all this so I can take advantage of your marketing vehicle, right and and so the good news for me is that I've got a very successful profile in place right now where I'm just going. You know, I appreciate you guys. You're wonderful. I thank you for even being interested in me. I think I'm going to pass for now. Maybe that'll change next year, but I think I've got to stick with what I'm doing, and I I'm just trying to be very gracious, because it's just, it's wonderful that they even think of me. I that's what I feel.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:14
Yeah, yeah. Wow. You really, you really made me do a big think, because it is very true that you know having, having that inventory can be useful if you're doing that model of shows and going to those shows, but it is a numbers game in the end, like you're like you're highlighting here, because it is expensive to take a flight, book a hotel or Airbnb, Maybe rent a car if you have to to go to the place to show 20 paintings without a guarantee that any of them will sell. And that is very risky, and it's something to think about. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Obviously, for some people, it works out, and some people can take those losses, or some people can, you know, and there's
S.C. Mummert: 1:02:00
another, yeah, there's another element that's also very important. So what happens? We'll say that I did five paintings, and, gosh, in a perfect world, all five sell gay, you know. But of course, we know that not all five paintings don't always sell for every artist. And so then what happens? Because we live in the age of the internet, the internet, we'll say that two of my five paintings sell. So now I've got three losers quote per the internet like, Oh, gee, nobody wanted those. Why? So then that adds maybe a negative element to that art globally. Where people kind of go, oh, and so, well, gosh, I guess I'll take these, what with regard to the, you know, the venue of the show, we're losers. We'll just say, maybe the paintings are great, but, you know, there's still that kind of inference, you know, that's maybe put on them. So then you go to your wonderful galleries and say, Hey, by the way, you know, how would you feel about selling these? Well, then the galleries gone, Chris, you know, so let's see the universe and the internet. Everybody knows it. Those were unwanted. That's a little tough on us while we try and tell everybody, it's the newest and greatest three paintings, you know. And so there's always that, that thing that can happen, and has happened to some very wonderful artists, you know. And it's, it's, it's another facet of what can happen through using shows as a vehicle and and, you know, so I been there, done that, I just kind of know how that can fly. Yeah, you know,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:46
yeah. Now it makes me wonder. And then I, I mean, this might sound a little intrusive, but do you actually have failed paintings that you just hide away? Or, do you, like, have a burn pile? Or,
S.C. Mummert: 1:03:58
do you know, that's a great question. I at this point, I don't, I don't have any failed paintings. Isn't that funny, you know, and but a lot of that has to do with, with what I was mentioning, you know, where a lot of them are vetted, you know, there's, there's a lot of Okay, so let's do it this way. So another transformative thing within within I'll just say my growth as an artist was gaining a level of command within Photoshop. So for example, if I go ahead and i Everybody thinks that I just take a photograph and make a painting, no, that's not what I do. And actually, some of my videos are very clear on that, where I actually show people some my process and things. It's almost like a collage is put together and manipulated and so forth, you know? And so what happens? So very often, the concepts that I'll send will say to my galleries, you. See those eight concepts I alluded to before. Those concepts are basically creations of what I produce in Photoshop. So there's a lot of effort into what's even being put out. It's like Toyota with a camera. And then they'll have a focus group, and they'll say, hey, what do you think about this camera, you know, and so forth and so. But it's, it's very, it's, it's a very clear idea of what I'm thinking of painting. Now, here's the good news, I can paint. That's see, there's a conceptual side and there's a technical side to art. And so what will happen is, we'll take the conceptual side, what do you think about this? And so forth, but then I have enough command over the technical side that I can actually paint what they've seen with success. And so because of that, all kind of, you know, meshing and working together, I just don't have the darn paintings hanging around. I'm, Ha, I'm happy to say now that might change next week. We'll see how this works. But that's kind of the way it's been so far. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:04
yeah. But I mean, the thing that I think is very interesting and really cool about this point that you've reached is the fact that obviously you didn't start out that way. You had to go through a bit of a process to eventually reach this point of this is my process that I have built up over years of experience. This is how I make it work. This is how I make sure it sells like you've you've, over your experience, developed this manner of marketing and creating your work that works very hand in hand, that I think is very excellent.
S.C. Mummert: 1:06:39
Well, I have to say this too, because it's a fair and valid hats off to my galleries, because a lot of that heavy lifting is handled by the galleries. And if I didn't have the galleries that were prepared to go ahead and work with me in that manner, I don't think I'd be experiencing what I am, you know, and I actually have, and this is also amazing to me, but I have galleries calling me, wanting to carry my work, you know. And I'm grateful for that. But again, it comes down to, you know, what are they prepared to do? It gets back to this work thing that we started talking about early on, you know, how much work are they prepared to do, or is it just come in and hang the thing on a nail in the or whatever in the in the gallery? Okay, I've done my stuff. Oh, no. Okay, I'm not sure that's the best model, you know. And so I have some, I'll just say, very hard working galleries that are prepared to go ahead and work with me. And it's the good news for them this is this is remarkable, because a gallery really, there's more to it than this. But I'll try and oversimplify and say all they have are the walls. I mean, if you really look at it, they're just like, you know, grocery store has shelves, you know, end caps and whatever galleries have walls, dealers, car dealerships have asphalt. Park their cars on, you know, and so everybody's got, you know, their resources to go ahead and depict their product and try and market it. And what happens? The good news is that, you know, because that's a finite resource, that they've got the walls. What happens with my work very often, you know, depending on what what their needs are, they can sell a painting before it even consumes any of their wall space. That's big, because then at that point, they're maximizing their resource without me ever hurting that. Uh, interesting thing that has happened with maybe the last half dozen paintings or so that I've done maybe more, but I'll just say last half doesn't when they pre sell, the galleries will go ahead and ask the collector if the painting can actually be on the wall for a few weeks, because I actually have people. Other artists will show up to look at my work in person, and they'll put it out on Facebook and so forth. All mummerts, another painting of Mummer, it's in the gallery and so and other collectors and so forth. And people will actually show up to see my art. And if it's just, you know, created goes to the collector, you know, nobody actually ever gets to see my art in that way. And so the collectors have kindly agreed to go ahead the last, I don't know, I'll make it up here and say, six or seven times have actually agreed to go ahead and let the art stay on the walls for three or four weeks so it actually has some visibility. You know, people can actually come in and check the art out.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:34
Wow, wow. That's kind of funny that they have to agree to that. Um, that's a testament to, you know, how literally, your work flies off the shelf without even getting on the shelf, which is really, it's really cool, but it's wonderful that they allow that opportunity for others to experience your work. Because I feel like it's one thing to see it online and to see it, you know, in in images, and it's another to witness it. In person. So I think that's a wonderful opportunity.
S.C. Mummert: 1:10:04
You and I both know there's nothing like seeing a painting in person. Heck, yeah, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, you know, I mean, there's just, there's just, you know, I go to, in fact, to get my paintings photographed. I actually, of course, I'm in San Diego, but, but I'll drive up to Culver City, which is up near lax la International Airport, which is just brutal. I mean, Los Angeles traffic. I just, it's like three hours up and three hours back, and it's not that far, but the traffic is some of the heaviest on the planet, you know. So I get to slog my way up there. But the guy that photographs my art is arguably the best guy in the West Coast, you know, and he used to work for Disney. And the guy, the stuff that guy talks about with colors and intensities and digital translation of that into, or, you know that he drives from the painting and the way she's crazy. He's just a genius and so anyway. But so I go through the effort to have that that shot, and pay a lot of money to have that guy actually photograph my art, and even then, even then, and my hats off to that guy. I think he does the best job that I could pay anybody to do. Even then, it's not the same as seeing the painting it. I mean, I go to great lengths to really produce something that's maybe going to look good on my website or on the cover of a magazine or whatever's going on. And even then, there's nothing like seeing the painting in person. It's just that way. It's just how it is. There's some, there's some sort of indefinable loss, maybe, you know,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:11:45
yeah, yeah. And it's incomparable. I mean, I recently did hear about a study they did on people observing paintings, and the difference between viewing a painting versus viewing an image. And apparently, when you view a painting in real life, it lights up a part of the brain that is a part of the brain that deals with self reflection.
S.C. Mummert: 1:12:06
So, oh, isn't that interesting? I'm glad you told me that. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:12:10
I just recently found this out. So it's very interesting, and it goes to show that, you know, being exposed to real artwork and seeing real artwork is actually very good for you in that way.
S.C. Mummert: 1:12:24
We've actually had people. There was one I in fact, on the cover of my book, and happens to be that same piece. But there's a gal that bought the painting, you know, or committed to buy it, we'll just say, before it ended up in the gallery, and finally ended up in the gallery, she showed up with her daughter to actually see it in person, you know, for the first time, she seen some photographs along the way, and she saw that thing, and she, and maybe what you're talking about is part of the piece of the puzzle, but she was overwhelmed by the painting, she told me, and she said she she started tearing up seeing the painting. Oh, you know, so there's that emotional effect, you know that that is probably part of what you're talking about. You know, where people have that, I'm not sure they would look at a thing on a magazine cover and say, oh, you know. And have that same element at play, you know? But she, she actually texted me and told me, she said she saw the thing with her daughter, and she had that emotional connection. And that's not the first time that I had that happen, but it's so gratifying to Sure, we get paid for what we do, but that's almost priceless to me.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:30
You know, you're not the first person to tell me that. I think a lot of artists, once they've reached that, that point in their career, that that you're in, they the the money is almost like the cherry on top of everything else that comes with living from your work like this, I think that is just amazing, that it's transcendental, almost,
S.C. Mummert: 1:13:54
yeah, I agree. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:55
totally Yeah, yeah. And I actually wanted to ask you really quick about your your process, because we were discussing this earlier, before, before we started the episode. But I find it interesting how there's this shift that's happened in the world in terms of like production speed for artists, for example, and how much work it actually should take, or how much work it does take, and how there's this misconception, I guess, about the speed at which we actually work as artists. And I may be curious, because you mentioned that your process is actually quite long. You know, you have your concept sketch, and then you have the maquette, and then the photographer comes in, and then you have this full, extended process. How have you, you know, how have you kind of rebelled against this extreme time shift, right? How have you continued to be true to your process without letting, I guess, the external world demand that you work faster? Yeah?
S.C. Mummert: 1:15:02
Uh, is that we're all supposed to do? I mean, faster, better, you know, and all that, yeah, I think, I think part of that has to do with my heroes, and I it's interesting because there are a lot of great artists out there right now, and many of them, I don't know, I'm, I'm sorry to admit, but, but that's largely because, and that's nothing against them, but that's largely because of my own way that I try to operate, where I'm trying to reach back to the people that I feel are the best that ever lived. So in other words, when I take and exalt someone up and hold them up that this is, this is who I admire, and then I want to learn something from them, if I can, you know, and so forth, and study their work and whatever, none of those people are alive, you know I mean, and so I'm so I'm bringing that up in the context your question, because what did they do? You know, what, what process and what work ethic and what, you know, what were the steps are that that they used to pull off the work that I feel is great, you know? And I'll just use an example, like Norman Rockwell, who I'm a huge fan of his work. And there's a book called Rockwell on Rockwell, and interestingly enough, it's a section he was involved with a famous artist course back, I think, in the 50s and 60s, maybe. But the point is, the Rockwell on Rockwell book is the section of the famous artist course that was about Norman Rockwell. And it's very explicit on on the steps he took. And honestly, what I do is almost right out of that book. You know, he started with this, start the concept, do this, and move this and and do an underpainting or work things out. Although, in his case, I used to work on architects detail paper like Rockwell did to refine concepts and so forth. Now it's on the computer so but it's the same, it's it's just a different tool doing the same element within the process. So a lot of that is driven by my admiration for him, and of course, he wasn't the only one that has worked in that way. But it's just this, these, these steps towards what I hope is excellence, you know, and and it's that pursuit of my own vision, or what I think is excellence I try and to to reach that is guided by what and I'm using him. But it's not just him. The steps that that were ordained, we'll say, by him. And, of course, you know, a lot of that, a lot of that those steps were, came out of Europe, you know, and, and it's interesting, because a lot of, a lot of the technology that, even that I use today, was, was, was developed in Europe, you know, centuries ago, and we're all standing on the shoulders of giants, right? I mean, we're all doing things that that someone else figured out, and then we kind of pull from here, and then we go over here and pull from here, and and so forth. Maybe this was developed 300 years ago. Maybe this is done 150 years ago. And all this stuff, you know, is all cumulative, you know? And so it just, you know, it's, it's, it's all stuff that goes into my own process. But it's, it's, it's things that as it Okay, let's do it this way. So fine art, which I'm a fine artist, fine art was producing like Bouguereau, these academicians and so forth, and Jerome and these other guys. What happened was, I'll use the Armory Show in 1913 there are other things that I'll just use that, because that's an easy one for me. Art changed. Fine Art changed dramatically from that point, moving on which I'm not criticizing that either. It's just a practical observation. But a lot of the technology that was developed, maybe in the 1500s and 1600s and beyond, you know, found a home in commercial art in America. And so a lot of the commercial artists began, or were, in fact, you know, because a person had to look like a representational, you know, the Quaker Oats, guy on the on the box had to look or the container needed to look like that, and so forth. So. So a lot of the technology that had been developed over centuries took and found a home in in commercial art. And then what happened? Interesting thing happened, that As the time passed, I was trained by commercial artist, and then a lot of that stuff, and of course, Rockwell was commercial artist, and so a lot of stuff that, that I depend on, was preserved, we'll say, through America, at least in a. America through commercial art, you know. And it had a huge, huge influence on me. And the thing about Rockwell, and hopefully, this kind of just is a bit of a summation on this. He said, genius is nothing more than being prepared to take infinite paints, you know. And I don't know that he's the one that he's the one that originated that quote, but it is, I would feel, I would say that's true, and he did say that. And so, you know, and are we really prepared if we're pursuing greatness, and whatever that is in each of us, if we're pursuing greatness? Are we each prepared to take infinite pains in pursuit of greatness?
Laura Arango Baier: 1:20:41
Wow, amazing. Yes, yeah. And I don't know why it also brings to mind even because, of course, there's a lot of crossover within the arts, right? There's a, there's a sort of the discipline process, etc, that is involved in making classical music, or making any kind of music, really, or or making classic literature, for example. And just to bring you know, the example of Lord of the Rings, Tolkien didn't write Lord of the Rings in one night. That took years and years and years of him, and not just that he wrote that's actually probably the shortest books he wrote. But he wrote that after years and years and years of study, right? It wasn't just like, oh, he one day woke up and was able to write this. No, he it was a whole lifetime of preparedness, of, you know, working, of, of all the sufferings like you just mentioned. So it's that puts everything into a really important perspective, I think, yeah,
S.C. Mummert: 1:21:47
yeah. And, of course, all those meetings at that pub with CS Lewis, right? Yes, of course, yeah, they had fun talking about that,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:21:56
yeah. And also, you know, immersing yourself with like minds or other people who are who could give you very good, useful criticism, you know, which is something you brought up earlier about being open to and being receptive to hearing outside opinions on your work, which I think was one of the reasons why both of them wrote very, very good books that are still classics today. And actually, I really want to ask you, what would be the biggest key advice you would give to someone who wants to become a full time artist,
S.C. Mummert: 1:22:32
I would say a constant pursuit of growth. You know, that's probably the, that's probably the, I don't know if it's the defining, maybe it is thing within my own life. You know that I have made a choice. I've made a decision to, like Michelangelo, I'm still learning, you know? I mean, so, so if, if someone has that in their heart, to go ahead and to be a better artist tomorrow than they are today, if they really embrace that, and that's hard, it's hard to do. You know, it's rewarding, but it's hard to do. It's like, go making sure you're going to the gym so you can take them and where you want to go. But that, if it's that constant pursuit of being, being better, a lot of the stuff that, that decision to embrace, you know, infinite pains, you know, is is basically, we'll just say, an expression of genius, you know, if you're pursue, if you're if you're prepared to continually grow and grow and improve and improve, that will eventually, in some manner, lead you to that, to manifesting a level of excellence that that is going to be hard for everybody to deny, you know, and it'll just show up. And then I was, I actually had the privilege of meeting Clint Watson. I was had a three man show in San Antonio. What a great guy. And it was funny, because we went to lunch with him and some of the gang there in San Antonio. And he said something interesting. He said, Chris, you had a gallery. And he said, you know, we're all waiting around for the next undiscovered talent to walk through the door, or something like that, you know. And we all chuckled about that. But I'm saying that because that applies to every gallery. I think every gallery, if you happen to use galleries, which you don't have to, but you need to understand, they have overhead that you they've got rent, insurance, lighting, you know, make the list of all the when they spend the key on that thing, every day, as a businessman, every every day when they open that thing up, they have expenses coming at them that are. Own income needs to be justified, you know, where they can make sure that gallery is profitable, where they can they've got a home and mortgage and all this stuff. So the point is, they need quality artists that are going to sell, you know, ideally for a bunch of money, for their sake, too. And so they're looking for talent and every day. And that's really kind of what Clint was saying, that you know that they they need, they need the talent. So when people are trying to get it in a gallery, we'll just say, they, they have to know that if their work is we'll just say, good enough. I don't know what that means. Every gallery is going to be different how they view that. But the point is, if, if the work is good enough, quote, The gallery will fall over themselves trying to get in the gallery, because they need that quality work for their own good and for their sales and for their income and profitability. But if you have that mindset that you're gonna whether you're in a gallery or not in a gallery, that you're gonna be better tomorrow than you are today, then I think there's a natural, you know, that there's a natural flow to that, that there's gonna a day will show up when people are pursuing you more than you're pursuing them.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:26:18
Yes, and that ties in beautifully to one of the very first things you said in the episode, which is that the universe conspires to help you once you start working on that. So, yeah, wow. That's very inspiring. Um, yeah. So now I wanted to ask you, um, where can people, first of all, where can people purchase a copy of your book?
S.C. Mummert: 1:26:44
So it's actually on Amazon. Now, it just came out, and thanks for asking that. It's just just, you know, good old Amazon. And it's, it's, in fact, if you just, if you just put in SC Mummer, it'll pop up, you know, the book will but, you know, it's, I mean, I'm not sure I'm all that great a writer, you know. And really, my heart's goal on this thing is just to help other people. And, you know, it's, it's a, it's really a testimony, I mean, and it's funny, because I hope I get this quote right, but it's basically that somebody with an opinion will never have someone with with an experience will always have greater capital with an audience than someone with an opinion and so and so. My book is really just a it's an experience, you know, and I'm trying to share an experience that had a profound effect upon me, and I did the best I could, you know, I'm sure it could be improved upon, but it's, it's really a step by step way that people can take and try and, you know, at least give it a shot if they want to, you know, and to and hopefully they experienced what I did. It was, it was really, there were some things that happened that surprised me, and I'll just say one thing here, because it was so, so weird when it happened, when Tom told me to go out and paint half our small paintings, I went ahead and actually brought along a stupid little kitchen timer, you know, in this and I said it for a half an hour. And what I didn't know, what I didn't know is that that timer had a 10 minute warning, and then a five minute warning. And so, and I'm out there painting, you know? And, and it's just this huge catastrophe happening, you know? It's just anyway, and I talked about in the book, but the point is, like 20 minutes go by and I hear Beep, beep, beep, where I get the timing warrant, I go, No, that's, that's not possible. That's that thing's lying, you know? And so I, I take, and I look at my watch, I go, No, it's, it's, I only have, oh, now I have nine I used to have. Now I have nine minutes to finish this. Nine minutes to finish a painting. And so then you begin to throw everything over the side of the boat. You know, everything, terror isn't quite what happened, but it's close, you know. Because you're you start to just go, Okay, so let's finish a painting in nine minutes now, and so and so. Then you just start going crazy trying to pull this thing off. And then you hear, like 30 seconds later, you hear the five minute warning, you know? Well, it feels like 32nd you know, you've, you've, you all said, Oh, now, now, I only have five minutes. And so it's like you're getting pushed towards this cliff, you know? And there's uh oh. And so I went into all that detail to say a very wonderful thing happens. You begin to have to you. It forces you to paint with your right brain. It. It forces you. To paint intuitively instead of doggedly and and thoughtfully quote. And so then you start to go ahead and paint with some wild abandon. And there's like this other artist within each of us that that emerges. And so then all of a sudden, you know, I'm this different guy that's trying to pull this painting on. And, of course, you know, all of a sudden, you know, I hear the final, you know, I'm done, and I'm beat up. I'm exhausted. I put in the book, I felt like my high school football coach had been running me around the track, you know, I just run out and but that was all wonderful in its own way. And so what happens? A very funny thing happens, that that door that kind of got cracked open, that creative right brain door that got cracked during that first experience. The more I did it, the easier that thing got to open, that right brain better artist began to emerge more and more and more through through the constant, we'll just say, five times a week, five times a week. And so then it got, it got to the point where, I mean, I could feel it happening and and even today. And so I became more aware and in tune with this other element within me that's actually a better artist that's in the book. I
Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:17
want to read it. I'm going to add it to my wish list and see if someone can give it to me for Christmas and my family, because that sounds so this is excellent book.
S.C. Mummert: 1:31:27
So this, this is it. I see that, yes, beautiful. There's, there's stuff on the back. But anyway, it's, it's, it had a profound effect on me and and it had a lasting effect on me. And also, again, it had, they're all these different wonderful elements that showed up in my own life from it. It may not be this, of course, the same for everybody, but hopefully it is.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:57
I hope so too, because it sounds magical.
S.C. Mummert: 1:32:03
Well, it was a surprise. It was, it was surprising to me.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:32:06
Yeah, well, I think it's a it's a beautiful surprise. So again, you know the universe conspiring to help you, and now you've written a book, and you saw your work, and it's that is definitely worth having made that jump from, at least from my perspective, you know, just viewing you from over here an absolute astonishment at how your artistic career has developed. I think it's amazing. And by the way, do you have anything else that you would like to promote?
S.C. Mummert: 1:32:39
No, I I think that's it. That's it for now. Like I said, I've just, I'm in kind of a, I'm in a happy route right now. I guess you know where I'm pleased with how things are. But you know, depending on how this, depending on how this book does, you know, I might, I might add more there some of the systems that I was, I was trained in, and so the original guy that taught me out of Chicago taught me things to this day that I've never heard or seen any place else, which is surprising to say, because you just think, well, we're in the information age, and All that stuff should be at your fingertip. That's not If not. And so what happens? So a lot of the stuff that I was taught, technically, I still haven't shared in in book form. I've made some videos just because, and they're free, of course, you know, people can go on my YouTube channel and watch them, and they're not very good either, frankly, but they're they're better than nothing, and hopefully the information is worthwhile. But the point is, you know, I'm trying to share stuff that way and help other people, which I hope the book does as well. But there may be other books beyond this. I've been repeatedly asked to write down or put a book together on a system that was developed originally put together a comprehensive system by Frank J Riley. And I've got some videos on the Riley palette, some other stuff, you know, that I, that I use at some point, you know, many of my paintings. So, you know, there may be things in the future, but just right now, it's, it's just, I just put this out, and I'm trying to get some more paintings done.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:34:26
Beautiful. That's wonderful. I hope you do publish more books, because I think you probably have, most likely have from this conversation, it seems like this whole iceberg of amazing information, experience wisdom that would be so great to have in books for future generations as well. So where can people find more of your work?
S.C. Mummert: 1:34:49
Well, you know, if they go on my website, that's probably the best way for people to connect with my work and how they can maybe put their, you know, or find it. It's just SC. Summer.com you know. And, you know, glad I got that early, you know. You know, it's weird. Sometimes you try to, you know, get a.com and, like, you know, you can't always do that these days, so, but I did and, and so it's SC mummer.com and book is, and, of course, they look, if they look forward, on Amazon, put s, space, C, space. Mummer, you know, they'll find that, but it's pretty I try to, I try to keep it simple. Not always works, but I do to try to keep things simple that way. So SC, mummer.com, I'll get them there, perfect. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:35:36
And I will be including links to your website, your book, your social media all in the show notes for people to check cool, yeah, well, I'm
S.C. Mummert: 1:35:43
going to apologize rather about the social media, because I'm not really very good at that. I'm I don't, I don't pay the kind of attention to it that I should. So my apologies to your audience, and forgive me up front for that.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:35:56
Oh, man, that's okay, though it's it's good at least that you have social media that people can at least follow, and maybe in the future, we post something you know that it right, right, good to have it instead of not having it. So
S.C. Mummert: 1:36:08
absolutely. Well, you're so sweet. I appreciate you. And you just you're good at what you do. So thank you.
Laura Arango Baier: 1:36:13
Oh, I really appreciate that. I really appreciate that. And thank you so so much for all the inspiration I'm I'm so ready to hit the painting gym.
S.C. Mummert: 1:36:23
Yeah, yeah, that's what it is, you know, where we end up a better artist so that all of our paintings improve from that point forward? Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier: 1:36:31
definitely. Thank you so much.
S.C. Mummert: 1:36:35
Yeah, you bet. Thank you. You.
