Tony Pro was the latest guest artist on our BoldBrush Live! program. As a paid subscriber, we are happy to provide not only the video replay but the full transcript of the insightful session with Tony Pro below. Please keep in mind the transcripts are generated by AI so there may be some typos.
Creatively,
Clint Watson
BoldBrush Founder & Creativity Fanatic
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Full Transcript:
Olya Babich Konell 00:00
Good morning, or good afternoon, depending on where you're at, on the globe and where you're tuning in from. Welcome to BoldBrush LIVE with our very special guest today, Tony Pro. I'm going to officially introduce him in just a moment, just a couple basic things, a couple of quick announcements, and then we'll do everything else at the very end. So this is brought to you by BoldBrush, and FASO, we do offer free and paid educational resources and tools for artists. And so I'll share more links and information on that at the end, Tony has to head out promptly today, right at 12. So that way, we'll make sure we get the most of this discussion with him on the line. And then we'll talk about that later. The other thing is if you are having to leave early, or you get disconnected, or you have any issues with the live version of this discussion, the recording will be made available next week. If you are a BoldBrush or FASO customer that's going to be available when you log into your account. In the marketing area in the BoldBrush circle of marketing, we have all of our recordings there posted the following week. If you're not a customer, you can get access to it as well. But you just have to subscribe in your emails that you got from us for this webinar, there's a link to subscribe to the BoldBrush Letter newsletter, you can do free or paid whichever one. And that will allow you to get the email next week with the link. So make sure you subscribe before the weekend is over. So otherwise, you're not going to get it, you'll get the next one. But that's you want to make sure you don't miss it. And let me go ahead and do our introduction. I have Tony here. Tony, I go ahead and say hello. And I would love for you, Tony probes. I would love for you to do just a brief, you know little bit about who you are and what you do. And then we'll be able to jump into the questions.
01:55
Well, thanks for having me on the show here. This is great. I don't you know, I don't have any pre set by biographies that I have memorized. Because I'm a kind of an ever evolving person. Like we all are, I guess. But I am, I've been a professional artist probably now for over 24 years or so. I started out I went to went to college, a four year college in Cal State Northridge in Southern California and I got a graphic design degree. I was a business major early on I was gonna go for marketing. And I could not pass business law to save my life. And, and I at the time I was already I was already kind of interested, I was working for Kinkos Believe it or not as a desktop publisher. And I was kind of really enjoying myself with learning the Mac computers then it was really early days at the Mac computer. And my older brother Greg was an illustrator, or is an illustrator I should say. And he's he's 10 years older than I am. And he went to school, he went to art school with Morgan Weiss Ling. And the two of them were kind of really just headed towards a career in film advertising movie poster work. And so I was really excited by that. And I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what that would mean, and how I would go about doing that. And so and by the time I came around, the movie posters weren't done traditionally, they were all done digitally. And so but my brother told me Look, you're going to really need to understand and learn how to draw, to sketch and to thumbnail and that kind of thing, if you want to do movie posters, you know, even digitally so. So I went to art school, I went to the same art school that Greg and Morgan went to different teacher I studied with Glenn orebic, who was a classmate of Morgans and Gregg's. And he was phenomenal. And that's, you know, I spent five years there, just learning to draw I didn't take any painting classes. And I was in class with guys like Jeremy Jeremy, Jeremy started about a year after I did Jeremy lifting I should say. And so we were we were in classes together. And another guy Ryan Wormser, who was another one of the advanced students there at the time. And then, many years later, once I I went back on a second round when I started doing more painting there. And I started teaching there, guys like Aaron Westerberg came around and Joseph Fedorovich. And you know, we were pretty tight knit group there, and you know, so that was kind of the early education. And then, for the most part, I started just learning to paint at home, the education I had in drawing, and the way Glenn taught us, he taught us to teach ourselves, and how to just kind of find the tools and the techniques, and how to seek out, you know, ways of learning how to paint and to create and to, you know, create interesting imagery. The the education was illustration based. So we had a lot of, you know, it was Norman Rockwell, it was Dean Cornwell it was, Jimmy bam, was, you know, so many of the old illustrators that several of them became Western artists. So it was kind of a natural progression. From, you know, illustration into, you know, what Western art is because, you know, a lot of the Western artists, the contemporary Western artists out there now, we're illustrators, you know, they started out as illustrators, Morgan included.
Olya Babich Konell 06:28
And you described it in your discussion with Laura, I think you said, one of the biggest things that you learned was this new method, the Reilly method is what you call it and learning how to see. Because, yeah, yeah, that's
06:42
the first thing, that's the first thing they teach you to do. And it takes a while to really understand that is learning how to see like an artist. And that's being able to, you know, look at anything, and be able to break things down into a very simple abstract pattern of light and dark. And that's, and that's really, I mean, and that was that method, it was, it's a very two dimensional, abstract composition based method of seeing. And, and so that's what I did. And, you know, learning how to paint by myself in my I worked in my dad's studio, when I lived at home, in my early 20s, we had a guest house out out in the back, and my dad had converted that into a studio for him. And so he had, you know, 30 plus years of taking photos that powwows, and don't rodeos and just reenactment events. And so I would, and that's where I kind of, I would just go through his photos and his file cabinets, and just, I would either draw from them, or I would paint from them. And, and, you know, and so that was my early education. And so, you know, we'd come in and I'd show my stuff to my dad and my, my brother, and you know, it was no holds barred on the, on the on the critiques. They were pretty, were pretty harsh.
Olya Babich Konell 08:18
But I think, you know, that has shaped you in many different ways. Because they were it was coming from artists. Yes, your brothers being artists, your dad being an artist. And then even when you were in school, you had quite a bit of friendly competition, you describe having a wall that if your artwork ended up on this wall, that was kind of like a big deal. And I wanted to highlight that. So really briefly, there is a podcast episode that is very detailed, we, Laura interviews, Tony, and they really get into, there's so many nuggets in there, I highly recommend that you check it out. So I'm trying to pull little nuggets for you guys today. And one of the things that artists often struggle with is getting to a place of mastery before they start selling their work, or before they start marketing or advertising and your background and your story. You really had just your the natural flow of where your life ended up and what you ended up going through, you know, your family influences, the historical influences your dad being an artist, the friendly competition in school, all of that pushed you to kind of get to where you are today. I think if you were on a loan on an island, and you didn't immerse yourself in that in that way, you wouldn't be potentially where you are now because that for I think for artists, we need that and lords
09:43
really, yeah. You know, and so in the 80s My first thought my dad was an anesthesiologist, and he was also a muse. He started out in music. So he was was a pianist and a musician went to music school and then I went to med school became a doctor. And in about the late 70s, you know, my dad was always he always needed to do some kind of hobby with his hands. And that's very true. Most doctors they need, because they have to be so precise, they need something that they can relax and do with their hands. So over the years, I've taught so many doctors, it's not even funny. I've heard that. So my dad started in lapidary with gemstones and polishing and making jewelry making and that kind of thing. And it got my mom into that. And she started getting interested in Native American, Native American jewelry. And then, and then my dad started getting really into Native American and Western art collecting it. So we spent a good portion of the early 80s. So I was, I'm 10 years apart from my oldest brother, and I have a couple other older siblings that are 10 to 14 years apart from me. So I grew up kind of like an only child because they didn't really get to go on a lot of the trips that I did, because they had to take me so. So we went to so we were regularly every year going to the reservations or we were traveling around the West, going to all different types of events, whether it was art, or reenactment events, so my dad could get photos or so and we spent a lot of time at the reservations that we would go the Hopi and Navajo reservations, where my parents would trade and buy, they would buy artifacts, rugs, pottery, baskets, I mean God and and I've gotten a lot of it now. You can see a lot of it behind me. There's there's rugs all over there's you know, and it just decorates my studio because it's part of who I became. And, and you know, and the other thing and we started going to the the cowboy hours of America show, and you know, I was literally the only kid there. But I did get to meet all these great old cowboy artists of America artists and and funny story, you know, one of the one of the paintings that my dad had bought was a Gordon Snyder oil painting. And he bought it, you know, over 40 years ago, and about 28 to 30 years ago, he donated it to the Western art museum in Kerrville. Right up here in in outside of San Antonio and I couple of weeks ago, and you'll see the little thumbnail right there of the cowboy painting. Right next to it. Yeah, that I did a painting at the Kerbal museum was just at the Western art ground. So that's me in the in the museum, or the same painting that my dad had bought 40 years ago when I was 10 years old, and I was there. The painting is there in the collection.
Olya Babich Konell 12:55
So that's very cool. And that's
12:59
that's literally my background in it. And it kind of formed me into what I've kind of learned. Now. Yeah,
Olya Babich Konell 13:07
yeah, no, I can. And you really touch on more of the details of that in the podcast episode. So again, you guys go. Make sure you check that out. I'm just reminding you, but certainly looking at, you know, so looking at kind of your website, in your schedule, you have a couple of shows coming up. I just wanted to find out if you can share a little bit about that. And then I want to, after that segue into getting your advice. And so for artists that are preparing for their first show, what are some things that they can do, but go ahead and
13:42
so I have a show. So I have a feature show in July at Meijer gallery in Santa Fe. And that will be I think it's opens July 12. Okay, and they'll be let's see about four or five new works. And then then there's I think they already have about five pieces four or five pieces there already. So and there is there is an accompanying article in Western art collector. Believe the July issue I would imagine. And yeah, the top well, not the top three paintings there you're seeing on the screen but the one in the center on the top right. And the the Navajo woman with the horse. Beautiful. Those pieces those pieces will be Yeah, that one will be in
Olya Babich Konell 14:41
the mire gallery
14:42
at Meijer gallery in Santa Fe. And then that top piece on the top left. That one is going to be at the Buffalo Bill. Cody, West the Ronnie I can never remember the names anything. It's there. Thanks Rhonda Rondae boo Roy cow. Okay, and that's in Cody, Wyoming. And that's in September. And so that piece will be there. And then I just shipped off the other piece for the scout mini show, which is that that piece there on the right,
Olya Babich Konell 15:17
just below, oh, just below. And so you you're very active, you participate in the a lot of different events such as awesome, you have this on, right? You have exactly. So it's not just social media, and I don't want to highlight that for our audience. So a lot of people right now are like, I want to learn about social media, how do I go viral, just emphasizing that you still have to participate in real life, things, whatever that looks like, for free, or you. So this is beautiful. I love just the contrast of the blues and the warmth. How do you know without because I know, you didn't just jump into, you know, doing this, you've worked your way through, you know, a lot of artists think that you're gonna wake up one morning and just get into a bunch of shows, right? For a new artist, or somebody who's early on in their career, and they aren't in many galleries, or they aren't in any galleries, and maybe they want to start participating in these kinds of things to check that off of their list. What advice do you have? Like, if you were them today? What would you what would you do?
16:33
Well, you know, for me, it was a lesson in humility. Because I had, you know, in my 30s into my 40s, I had this I had some, you know, I had these ideas that, oh, I could paint whatever I want. And, you know, people will just buy it. And you know if it's good. And I had this kind of early on idea that you know, and I got, you know, 20 years ago, was literally 20 years ago, look that cover that magazine. I was my first cover and time that I was in, had a prominent magazine article. You know, when that happened, I thought I had made it and I thought things are gonna happen. And it just, it doesn't work that way at all. And really, the way the art market is, is that for the bulk of the collectors that are kind of your average collector, they're going to buy things that they like they're they're not. Or if they think that you're going to be a good investment in the future. That's what that's what most collectors are looking for. They're looking for something with an aesthetic that's going to go with their, their, their decor, something that's going to be striking something that's going to be beautiful. That is something I've learned. And I spent the good first 10 to 15 years of my life just painting people. And most collectors don't want people on their walls that don't have any meaning. So and I you know, and this was an part of that was, you know, I spent some time mentoring with with Richard Schmid. And I learned a lot about painting from his books, and his videos. And we had a he and I had a working relationship. Several years ago, almost 20 years ago, I approached him because at the time I was in DVD in the entertainment industry, and I was kind of in that technology. And so I brought him into the digital world. And so I looked at what Richard was painting, and he was painting just friends and family, neighbors, people he thought looked interesting. And I was seeing that, you know, he was selling almost everything he painted. And I thought, well shoot, I can do that, you know, and so I started doing it, and it didn't really work that way. You know, no matter how nicely you painted it. Something sold, but it wasn't. It was just he was doing it at a time when other people weren't. And he was doing it at such a high level. That's what made him special. And that's what made and he was and his technique. And what he was able to do was different from anybody else. So what I what I learned and what I figured out was basically you know, the I heard this quote said find out where the pack is going and figure out what they missed. And if you're just kind of doing what everybody else does, or, you know, or you basically have to do things that are a little bit differently than what you might want to do, that's if you want to be a selling artist, you know, there's a, there's a difference between someone who wants to just paint because they feel like they have to, and you don't care, if you don't care about sales, that's a great place to be, by the way, if you're, if you're wealthy, and you don't have to make art sales, that's a great place to be. Because you can just paint what you want. And, you know, nobody cares about whether, you know, it doesn't look right or not, but if you're if you're trying to get into galleries, you need to be marketable, and being a marketable artist is someone who looks different, or something, someone that just stands out enough from everyone else in the gallery. Because, you know, galleries these days, a good bulk of them are being tried to fill their walls with as much work good work as possible. And that and that also means bringing in a lot of different artists. So, you know, it's very, you don't see too many galleries these days that are just heavily curating their works and only represent like, you know, maybe 10 artists, and then they, you know, have shows up on the law. And, most, most of the most of the galleries that I know of, in our genre in our world, you walk in, and wall space is just covered from floor to ceiling. And or it's just, you know, it's a large piece of real estate, and they have to fill it, you know, they've got to, and so it's it's inventory, they need to have inventory on the walls, and it's got to be varied. So, in order for you to stand out, you've got to do something different, whether it's colorful, whether it's designed, whether it's, you know, something that just will turn somebody's head. And these are the things that I've observed. Or even being at the shows, like when I go to the show, when I do these shows, and I go and I kind of stand near my work, I watch how people react to my work. And then I watch how people react to the work around me, you know, see what people are keying in on, see what what's drawing them in, and why it's drawing them in. So you kind of have to AMP, you kind of have to analyze your work that way, and analyze what you have to say, you know, which is another big thing, you know, it's one thing to paint really well. And then that's another thing to actually have something to say. So those are two very distinct things that folks need to work on. You know, and look, if you're a landscape painter, you're just you're just saying how beautiful something is, you know, or something is from your perspective. So it's not going to be you know, it's not going to cure cancer, it's not going to, it's not going to just, it's not going to change someone's life completely. But it's a moment in time. That that, you know, a landscape art. And there are so many great landscape art painters today and, and that stops people dead in their tracks, and it sells. And so And really that's an and that's that's kind of everything that I've come to understand now. Yeah,
Olya Babich Konell 23:33
it's like you, you, you mentioned the same thing about social media or the internet. And I'm going to loop that in. So in your podcast with Laura, you said that the downside of social media and YouTube is that suddenly you're not as rare as you thought you were. So in a sense, standing out in a gallery is finding or online is finding a way to be, you know, you're still like, if you're buying a gemstone, you're obviously shopping for a gemstone, so you're creating art, you're creating art within a certain genre, because you you're at a certain gallery that displays certain things, or whether it's online or, but you want it to be different enough that it has that extra sparkle, that unique cut, or whatever it is that draws people to you, or to your work, whether it's online or offline. And that's kind of what I'm picking up on. From your observations by being there and watching people's reactions to your work or and watching people's reactions to other people's work. For Do you have what are your thoughts like how, how does one find? I mean, how does one find what it is that they that makes them more rare? Like if, if I was coming to you, Tony, trying to figure out how to how do I stand out like how do I figure this out for myself? I mean, or do you have any thoughts of how one would go about that?
24:59
Well, I would say first and foremost, you know, if you're young
25:07
first and foremost, getting a technique down, that, you know, that looks great.
Olya Babich Konell 25:18
Craftsmanship getting craftsmanship,
25:19
craftsmanship. That's, that's the first thing that will get you recognized. Yeah. And there is a slew of people on social media that do it, and that get lots of likes, and they get all these followers, and, you know, and they've got these flashy techniques, and it's great, you know, it's great, looks nice, great job. That's step number one. And that will get you a lot of followers that would, you know, if especially if you, if you can understand the technology, if you can understand how to use your phone to kind of make a good video, you understand a little bit about the apps that where you can, where it'll, you know, kind of cut things and make, you know, there's templates you can use to kind of like, you know, jump, clip things around and cut it to music. And that's really what you know, that's what draws people's attention into into the, you know, reels and stuff on Instagram and Facebook, because sometimes, sometimes even just like long, slow progression of somebody just drawing or painting, it's, it loses people's interest, you know, you got you got seven seconds to get somebody's attention. In the movies, it was 15 seconds, the first 15 seconds is where what captures a person's attention. But in social media, it's much less than that. So So you have to kind of, you know, you got to have a hook, you know, what's your hook, you get somebody in, you got to you got to bring them in. Sometimes it's it's the music that you choose, sometimes it's the interesting technique that you're doing. That's the hook. And the other thing is having the time to do that is to. And that's tricky. Because when you're like me, I don't I do everything myself, I don't have any help. I don't, I don't have an assistant anymore. I used to, I had several assistants back in the day, but I do I have to do all the painting, I've got to do all the, I have to design all these paintings. And then I've got to figure out how to get these things on social media. And I got to cut them all because I used to be a video audit video editor back in the day as well. I work in entertainment industry. So I know all this stuff. But it just all takes time. And it's you know, so but if you have help, if you have a spouse, or significant other or a kid that wants to do it, that also helps to you know, if you're older, and you don't understand the technology as well. If you've got a kid or a grandkid, even that, you know, a lot of these, tell me a lot of these kids really not I mean, my daughter who's 14, she's already got this huge Pinterest page, and she has a big following. And she knows how to do all this stuff. And she's making videos and stuff. And she's 14. So if your grandchild that's the same age that you see, that's doing it, yeah, you know, throw in the box, you know, and, or maybe
Olya Babich Konell 28:20
somebody that wants to learn how to paint, maybe, you know, a friend's kid that's like, hey, I want to learn how to paint trading some art lessons, those kinds of things. So, so obviously, you mentioned going back, sorry, the mastery, getting the craftsmanship getting the, the core skills in learning how to actually present yourself online or obviously offline, and then to do something different. And I'm, I'm gonna, I'm wondering, I'm wondering if that's something different is going back to something at your early core, because I remember in your discussion with Laura, you talked about how you painted beautiful women beautiful, this beautiful sceneries you did that, but then you went back, you went back to what you grew up with, which was this has, you know, Western influence that you had, and that ended up being kind of like your thing that ended up being. Yeah, and I'm wondering if that's it, if, if it's, you know, uniqueness,
29:21
you know, it's you. The other thing is, is that it's, it's, you know, you have to be honest with yourself and what you really want to do and, and the collector can see that and I've kind of I just feel like I fit in with that crowd because I grew up in it. You know, I'm not a cowboy. I don't ride horses. But that doesn't mean I can't paint them and I enjoy looking at them looking at the grandeur of them. I'm not Native American. But I grew up around them. I was playing with them as kids. I mean, I go to the reservation, I would find all the kids And we're all welcoming. And I play with them while they're, while my parents were in, you know, trading with their, with the elders. And, and that's just what I did. And you're
Olya Babich Konell 30:09
also touched, you're also touched by the fact that some of their conditions that they were living in, and this was back in the 70s, I think you say you were saying,
30:17
it's still and it hasn't changed. Yeah. So
Olya Babich Konell 30:21
it's almost like just an observation for you, I think you were maybe so touched by their stories. And you're just kind of magnifying that with your work right now, making sure these voices or these images or these things that you saw, these people are not silent, you know, they're you keeping that alive, which I think is beautiful. Yeah. And
30:42
it's such a part of, of the lasts history, you know, they're a huge part of the West history in the formation of how things how things are here, you know, and just, you know, the colors that that come from, from the desert, and the colors that come from their textiles, and their blankets and rugs, beautiful. With with with the earthy reds of the dirt. I mean it to me, it's, it's great. And then of course, the landscape. But you know, I did, I had a show and up at Maynard Dixon's home in studio, it was 10 years ago, I guess, in a little town called Mount Carmel, Utah, it's just outside of Knapp. And it's right, right on that backside of Zion National Park. And, I mean, it was such a, such an amazing experience. It was about a year after my dad had passed away. And it it really cemented in me that this is what I had to do. That's when I made the decision. After my dad passed away, I I wanted a no maj to him. And and, and so you know, and I stuck with it. And I just I started doing it. And I I did the residency up there at at the Maynard Dixon Holman studio, and it's still their beautiful place to go see. The Binghams have a gallery up there, Susan's out there with, with with her gallery, Paul, unfortunately passed away a couple years back. But it's a great place. And it's a very sacred place. For the Western artist, you know, Maynard Dixon was a was huge. In especially in my he was one of my big inspirations, as well as all these other illustrators that I had been studying as a kid. And so, so it's just kind of, it's kind of where I've had to where I've had to go to, to find, to find inspiration and to just kind of try to try to do something that that takes what I've learned over the years as a painter, and just kind of put it into work. But you know, and it's still a long journey, it's still an education, everything, I'm learning something new about every day, right? Every day, it's I'm learning something new, what I should do, what I shouldn't do, do you
Olya Babich Konell 33:25
have first because most artists are in the same shoes as you and this is not a question on the list. But what like are some are there any apps or techniques or things that help you juggle getting all the different things done? You know, like you talked about, you know, painting, designing, posting, taking, you know, is there anything that helps you that you found to be useful?
33:50
Well, since I have a big I have a background in doing movie posters for 10 years. I mean, I started with Photoshop, and you know, it was I think it was Photoshop one. It was like early, very early days of Photoshop, so I've mastered that program years ago, and so I can so you know, if I create an idea, I'll do some thumbnail sketches or whatever, or I'll use my iPad I use I use you know, these it's one of these little digital stylus pencils and use procreate. You just sit there and sketch and procreate, or you can do it traditionally and I've got a you know, I've got some makes it easier to do it in my studio here. So I'll do like little wash studies. There's just like a tiny little, you know, little bit bigger in a business card. And these are just in wash. And, you know, I'll make a, I'll just, you know, and this is basically out of my head. I'll just, I'll just draw it. And then I'll just add color totally out of my head. And if it works, I'll go okay, well, that's cool, then maybe I'll you know, and so I'll start kind of create it digitally. And then I'll work from a digital image that makes a little more sense. You know, and then I'll just this I'll just, you know, these are just figuring out taking a black and white photo and adding color to it, trying to work out, you know, flesh tones.
Olya Babich Konell 35:27
Yeah, kind of figuring out, you know, the concept, the where things are gonna go. Yeah.
35:32
But in terms of, in terms of the apps, you know, I don't use a lot of, you know, Instagram has kind of its own template, making things.
Olya Babich Konell 35:42
It's gotten good. It has all the editing. For anybody that is unfamiliar, make sure you've, you update your apps regularly. It's gotten really good. You don't even need a third party video editing app anymore, you can literally just put your videos and pictures in, right? There's really no
35:58
photos and it snaps it all together. And it makes it jazzy even puts
Olya Babich Konell 36:03
it to the music for you. Right? For anybody. That's a I don't know, has an auto Yeah, Angela.
Angela Agosto 36:09
I was gonna say you don't have to worry about the copyright because they give you a list right of what? News? Oh,
Olya Babich Konell 36:14
you just click the music, you could even have it pick music for you. It is very hands off lately. So that's yeah. And so you just it's more or less just getting it done. Obviously being consistent. You know, and I remember you hadn't mentioned and I want to highlight this online a notoriety doesn't always translate to sales. So for anybody listening, just because you have and you have an awesome following on social media, I'd pulled up your Instagram will share the link. But, you know, there's other artists that I've seen that and we know of, you know, Clint Angela, we know of artists that have huge followings, but they're struggling with sales. And so our audience listening today, just because you make a big on social media, that doesn't mean I mean, you're you're every painting you have is going to sell. And you mentioned that these are two different. The way you said as you they are two different consumers of your art, is you have the one that looks at it, because they just want to be entertained online. And that's it, and they scroll on to the next thing. They just love looking at beautiful art online. And then there's a consumer that actually wants to bring the art home. There are a small group, like there's a real
Clint Watson 37:29
risk with social media, of falling into a trap where you optimize for the wrong thing. You know, I see people that are very good at that. And I'm not even talking about only artists, and they can command attention and they get huge engagement. But at the end of the day, like what does that what does that worth? It may be worth very little.
37:55
Well, if you're I mean, it works good if you sell prints, you know, there are some artists that I'm not going to name any names, but there's people that that have massive followings, and they're super famous, but most of what they're selling online, you know, to their followers, they're not buying originals, they're gonna buy prints. And there's and that's a great way to make money too. But, you know, in the Western art world, there's not a whole lot of Western collector, or you know, art collectors that use Instagram or that use social media in general, because that plays to the big collectors. These are very wealthy people. Most of them are over 60 years old, or in their in their 70s. And somewhere in their 80s. They're not going to be using Instagram,
Olya Babich Konell 38:47
or art to find art. Yeah.
38:49
So when you when you go to the when you go to these Western art shows that I go to, most of the collectors are, they're all retired wealthy people. Yeah. And if they use social media, it's Facebook, and it's once a month to see the grandkids. And that's it. They're not looking for art. Yeah,
Olya Babich Konell 39:06
yeah. Well, that's
39:07
why that's why it's very important to do these shows to travel to the shows. Yeah. Because the on the other hand, too, is that they're not only just buying your art, they are buying the artist, that's true and has to be you have to be a personality. And the person and the artists that I see that are so successful, are the ones that do have the personality that do go to the shows, they show up, you know, yeah. And they and they're pressing flesh. They're there. They're just saying hello, they're shaking hands. And those are the ones that do well.
Olya Babich Konell 39:41
You told a story where you walked into a gallery, and you had a small painting or something in your hand with you and you sold it because you ran into a collector or something.
39:52
That was at Meijer I was delivering. I was delivering paintings to Meijer and it was just a little eight by eight and the guy there was a collector walking around in there and he bought it. I didn't even have a frame on it. It's like, Oh, I'm gonna take that like, Okay, that was the fastest painting sale I've ever made.
Olya Babich Konell 40:09
Yeah. And that's so true that you and I think one of your pieces of advice in the prior discussion was like, go visit your galleries be at your shows. Absolutely.
40:20
And, yeah, and the other the other thing is, is send send your friends into the galleries, just to make sure that galleries are have your work displayed. And okay, check the prices, you know, look at the prices and report back to and have them report back to you what the price is, say on the wall. Yeah, that's another thing.
Clint Watson 40:42
When that happens, how, how have you had that happen? Like, gallery marks marked it up and didn't tell you or they weren't being displayed? Well,
40:52
I yeah, I've had some sketchy situations where you know, where the, or they'll sell something, and you don't really know. I mean, you don't know what they sold it for. Because if you're not in the state, you know, I give them prices, most of the good galette, most of the gap, all the galleries I'm with now, don't do that, because I've left the ones that have done that in the past. But you know, it's, a lot of times, they'll get it wrong, you know, they'll they'll miss mark something. And, you know, and I've had, I've recently had a local gallery, sell something, and I had originally told them, it was higher, but for some reason, the wires got crossed, and they ended up selling it lower by accident. So you know, those things happen. But, you know, it's, it's very important. Once you are in a gallery, you gotta be you got to do your due diligence, and you got to make sure you're supplying them with fresh work often enough, if they want it. And second of all, you've got to stay on them, you know, at least once a month check in say, How's it going? What are people responding to? What are they not responding to? And that's kind of what I do to curate my own work. Within that particular gallery. You're asking for feedback? Yes, you always ask for feedback. What do you think about this? What do you think we do this, you know, you have to kind of just keep up with with them. Because what, because what happens is, you know, if you're not if you're kind of one of the lower artists or kind of an average artists in their roster, and if you're not, and this is this is true, pretty much in almost every gallery I've been in, if you're not one of their best sellers, or a big big name that sells great, they're not going to invest that much time in selling your work, they're going to focus on what makes them the most money. They're going to and what sells the highest. So you know, years ago, I was in when I first got into when I first got into a gallery, I got into legacy gallery 20 years ago, and I was a nobody you know, and I had some Okay, work, it was great. I thought it was better than it was but but my work and it's good gallery of that site, it's a fantastic and one of the best galleries there is out there right now. I mean, Brad and ginger who own legacy, they're great people fantastic gallery, but it would be dumb for them to try and really push my work because a it wasn't that expensive. And B wasn't really anybody at the time, their hot seller was G Harvey. And, you know, they're getting 75 to 125,000 a painting for his for his work, they're going to push his work well before they look at mine. So it's a good idea to to kind of just keep a dialogue keep fresh in their mind, you know, because because you might just be on a wall in their back room and they may not go in there and look at it that often. So it's a good idea to kind of just, you know, giving them fresh work, you know, as often as you can, as often as they would like it checking in with them. What can I do to help with sales? What can I do to push the work a lot of these days you can if you do have an Instagram account, you can collaborate with your gallery, which I do with my or a lot. So we both tag each other on our up a digital collaborator. Yeah, a great way of doing that. You know, just anything to kind of spur things along and you're kind of helping each other if you have a good if you have a good following on social media, you're helping the gallery by inner do sing your followers to that gallery or vice versa. Yeah. So. So that's another thing, that kind of
Angela Agosto 45:06
good piece. You mentioned, keep the work fresh. Do you ever ask or pay? If this isn't working? Can I trade something out? Is that a good idea to use?
45:16
All the time? Yeah,
Olya Babich Konell 45:18
yeah. And you also mentioned, and I think we've had this question asked before, people are like, Oh, I have work in a gallery, but I don't know what's going on, you had mentioned that you should, when you give them a painting for consignment in that contract, it should state what they're going to do for you. And if it doesn't, you should ask about it. Like, are you guys going to make phone calls? Are you guys going to do this? Are you guys going to do ads or whatever, like, you should have clear expectations, when exactly.
45:47
And you got to kind of remind them of that, because sometimes they don't always remember, yeah, they're gonna focus on their big shows, they're gonna focus on their big name artists. And, you know, in, you know, I still have to do and I still have to, you know, harass, you know, some of these people, or I don't harass them, but I'll just be like, you know, look, I'm doing this and, and then, you know, and you kind of figure out if it's going to be a fit or not, you know, and then you're kind of, I'm kind of always on this little journey of finding that gallery, that's a good fit for me, you know, you know, one, you know, it's a gallery that's going to believe in your work, and they're gonna push your work as much as they can.
Clint Watson 46:36
You know, that I've been on the other side of that, too. And it's kind of the same, the other direction, you're always kind of as a gallerist, on a journey for an artist to every gallery has a slightly different vibe, a different, you know, they have a different customer list, they built up a different kind of reputation. And so, you know, you come across artists, and you're like, this person's great, and you try it, and it just, like, doesn't work for whatever reason. Yeah,
47:03
well, you, you get personalities, you know, like, right, so
Clint Watson 47:06
artists personalities, they're just, it's kind of like artists and galleries or on a on a meeting. They're like a speed dating thing. Like, they're trying each other out. Yeah,
Olya Babich Konell 47:18
that's it. That's a really good way of I mean, I
Clint Watson 47:21
remember it was heartbreaking, we'd find artists that we just absolutely loved. And just, you know, for whatever reason, it wasn't a good fit. We never really sold very much, you know, despite trying, sometimes
Angela Agosto 47:32
it depends on the location to like what your painting software says. But you're in a in a beach town. Right? Exactly. That may not work that may not be a good fit. Exactly.
47:43
Yeah. And that's why, you know, I've had, I've tailored my galleries to what were my art is going to sell the best. You know, right. Now, Santa Fe does the best for me, because that's basically what I paint. Yeah. You know, I've got some things there in Scottsdale, but that's a tough market, because there's a lot of there's a lot of Southwest are there already. So but, you know, and it's and it's, and again, you know, like Clint was saying, artists will shoot themselves in the foot too. I mean, I've tried to make myself a very business, and marketing minded person, that's been kind of my background. So I'm, I'm a little different than a lot of artists. I mean, I'm, and I'm not ashamed of, you know, having to make some adjustments or move to get things to sell. Whereas you got some other artists who just refuse to budge. They don't, they don't want to discount work to sell it. You know, these days, every every collector wants a discount doesn't matter.
Olya Babich Konell 48:51
That's what you were saying that you're actually priced that into your pricing? Yeah,
48:56
well, I just yeah, I've raised my prices naturally, just to make up for that discount, because everybody wants a discount.
Olya Babich Konell 49:04
So they feel like they're getting a discount, but and you also said, I want to touch on this in the beginning, when you said you painted your family and kids and wife and you and you painted people you loved a lot. You were less willing to discount those paintings because you were like, No, this is important to me. Right?
49:20
Well, I wouldn't even sell them. The painting that's on the cover of Southwest art that's back there on the wall. That was in my first that painting was in at Legacy gallery, my first time around, and they could have sold it three times. And I just I didn't have the heart to do it. That was one of the reasons that like well, maybe the gallery is not for you. You know, so I learned I learned my lessons. So
Clint Watson 49:45
speaking of I want to ask a question going back to something you discussed early, but I feel like you started to talk about that there were sort of two things as an artist you needed to sort of um, I don't want to say the word master. But I guess master because I can't think of a better word. And one was the technical proficiency, you know, you were talking about a technique that looks good that you've, you've kind of, you know, perfected, not perfected, but you know, you, you get what I'm saying, you've kind of mastered this technique works for you that is attractive that. And then you said, You've got to have something to say, right? You know, you can apply a technique to anything, and it may not mean anything, but what's the meaning of this painting. And it seemed like what you've described in your journey is that at some point, what you had to say deeply that resonated with you was the southwestern art, especially after the Maynard Dixon event and all of that and honoring your father. So what would you describe it? Is there a difference in? Like, what's the difference in the before and after in your career? Not necessarily. It could be sales, or maybe it's not sales, maybe it's just in a way that you feel about the art? Yeah, like, is there a difference before and after that shift.
51:11
So kind of going back to what I had to come to a realization that if I wanted to sell a painting, I had to paint something that someone else would want on their wall. And to marry that with you know, growing up and going on these trips, and, you know, driving through the these deserts and just seeing these big, vast Cloudscapes, you know, in Monument Valley, or or in the deserts. The way to marry those two was just and kind of like, having a homage of like, what Maynard Dixon's work was, or any of the Taos painters, they were, they were, they were showing the beauty of the Southwest. And it happened at the same time to be what people wanted to have on their walls. So and that type of work, it sells pretty well. I mean, people collect that type of work. Whereas before, the things I was I was very attracted to the French naturalist works, which was bashing La Paz, email free aren't like, these French naturalist, they were phenomenal. And but they were very the paintings were very gray. They were very, and a lot of them also were very somber. You know. And just because, you know, and so I was kind of gearing some of my work that way, you know, and you know, both Jeremy and I kind of got in, we were into the same artists, Anders Zorn, all these people. But, you know, Jeremy was doing a lot more nudes then. And he was doing a lot more. He's doing landscapes and was still life. And so I was kind of going down that path as well. He was better at it than I was, of course. But I was finding that people weren't as excited about it, or it's not as collectible, especially, especially if you're painting random people. Yeah, you know, and I was in at the time I was, I was teaching portrait painting on a weekly basis. So I was like painting people constantly, always. And I've just had stacks and stacks of paintings of people. And, you know, nobody wants a portrait of somebody they don't know, unless it's interesting, unless the person is doing something interesting, or if they look interesting, or if they're in an interesting environment. And so
Clint Watson 54:00
I can't You're exactly right, I have a I have a few paintings here at the office that I just think are beautiful portraits that I've collected. And I brought them home and my wife was like, well, who's that? Who's that lady? Why is she in your office?
54:17
Someone who's not an art connoisseur or buys art or likes art is not going to know what they're gonna be like, what do you have that on your wall? You know, yeah. And it's you know, and you know, it is what it is but I had to learn that lesson fairly hard, you know, because you know, it does affect your you know, it affects your, your mindset as an artist, it affects your confidence level. And so I was pretty beat up for a long time going to why I can't, I can't make it. I can't make it as an artist. I can't do this. And you know, and I had I had all kinds of magic magazine articles here and there. It was teaching workshops everywhere and I still like You know, and it's still, you know, and my dad was always after me, he said, Why don't you go back to the Western work? You're so good at it? Why don't you do it? I mean, I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it, you know, I, you know, I was just fighting it, you know, I was fighting it. And, you know, and, and my dad was always telling me, you got to do larger work more complex pieces, constantly, he was harassing me about it, I'm like, Yeah, you know, I was one of them. And I still have a very, I have a very, you know, I get distracted really easily. So, you know, I'll start something. And, you know, and I like one little part of a painting, and then I get excited about doing another painting. So I start that one, and I have all these paintings all over. So I get I just my distraction level was, was an issue. So I had to deal with that, mentally, I had to figure out a way to just hone in and figure out how to do these large pieces and, and just stick with it. And, and that's a, and that's something that, that you have to learn that, you know, if you don't have a, if you don't have patience, which I don't, I'm very I don't have a lot of patience with things in life. So I had to learn it. And it's like, you know, dragged you in kicking and screaming, but I'm the only one naturally fell into it kind of, once you kind of break that mold, it gets a little easier, especially if the paintings going well, the paintings not going well. Well, then, you know, you got to learn to pull the ejection oujet. Panel, because and that's tough for an artist as well. So
Clint Watson 56:45
I'll just say here, I mean, I'd love to ask follow up questions, but I think we may be at the end of your time. Yeah,
Angela Agosto 56:51
it's past noon.
56:52
I could probably do another 10 minutes if you guys have some follow up questions. Yeah.
Olya Babich Konell 56:57
Yeah, absolutely. We, we don't want to push it. But no, I was gonna say I didn't mean to interrupt you, your your work is beautiful. And the one thing with your painting people now I'd like to point out as your your people, the people that are in your paintings are telling a story. So they're doing what you just described, they're interesting. There's a story, like, where's that woman going? Why is she so sad? Or, you know, well,
Clint Watson 57:23
that's how that that's what I was gonna ask to if you thought that was the difference, especially with your dad telling you to do larger works. Yeah, it may be like, you know, I'm sure you recall me on set, too. But when we first came across his work, I'm sure many people were thinking, Well, how's this going to sell? It's a bunch of it's a bunch of Chinese natives are painted. Right? Right. But the thing was the ones that were just basically portraits. Unless, you know, they were extremely interesting. Yeah, they didn't sell as well, but the ones that we're larger and was several people and maybe a grandmother with a grandchild and the parents, like, you could almost feel the story in this larger works like sure, yes, maybe narrative is the word. You know, there was more of a narrative and even though they were not even though they were a different culture, it was still a universal, a universal narrative. Right, right. People could relate to Yeah.
58:31
You know, and the funny thing is, is like I follow the auction sales quite a bit. And for instance, you know, my you know, with Richard Schmid, I was always drawn the most to his people in his landscapes. But oddly enough, the highest dollars for his paintings are his still lives, like ridiculously high dollar like fans, they're, yeah, they're gorgeous. But again, it's what people you know, you can have a beautiful still life on the wall, and no one's gonna say, Who's that, you know, like, but he painted so many different people, just and he painted characters and he painted, he would just paint neighbors, or whoever they could get to sit in Vermont at their, at their puppy group. And, you know, and those paintings, they don't go for as high as the other ones do. You know?
Clint Watson 59:25
Well, the still lives with the beautiful flower petals against the dark background. Yeah, you know, like, that's really his disappearing edges technique is so like, perfect for that. Absolutely.
59:36
Absolutely. And, and you'll find that with other artists, I mean, if you and really, if you want to understand the art market, pay attention to the auctions, at least at least the ones in our genre, which is, you know, the Scottsdale art auction. You know, the Russell show. You know, there's several auctions and And you just pay attention to what sells, and what doesn't sell, you know what the prices are. And it's mostly secondary market. It's not the artists that are making this these are either galleries or, or collectors that are that are liquidating their, their their either their estate. So they're moving their money into another investment and they're just going to sell this piece because it's a good time. Those are the those actually tell a lot more than you would think, you know, keeping track of the sale prices and and again, what sells? What doesn't? Who sells? Who doesn't?
Olya Babich Konell 1:00:36
Yeah, really good advice? Because that's it. Yeah, it doesn't even involve necessarily be artists themselves. It's work that's already been bought, it's moving elsewhere.
Angela Agosto 1:00:49
Prices that people are always asking us, how do you know what to price? So that's a good place to to figure that out? Yeah,
1:00:55
exactly.
Olya Babich Konell 1:00:56
There was more of a technical question, do you? Because you have a lot of experience with galleries? Good ones, and bad isn't isn't? Somebody asked about? They want to know more about contracts and agreements, you know, that galleries provide? Do you pay for the framing? Do you share cost of exhibition invitations, etc? And what percentage of sales Do you normally get? I'm just reading their question.
1:01:21
So it varies from gallery to Gallery, that's something like everything's negotiable. Galleries are always going to come at you and go, Oh, we always start with 5050. And I, I hate that like, right off the bat, especially if I know they're not going to they're not. And, you know, 5050, and that usually means you're shipping your framing. So you're the one taking the burden of the cost, you know, and it's your work. So I always say, you know, at least try to get to 6040. I've had some galleries in the past, offer to frame the work. You know, and that's a good, you know, that's a good deal. If you can get them to frame the work for you. You know, especially if they have a if they have a framer or framing business that's attached to the gallery. That that, that helps. And it's, you know, because look these days, the shipping is so expensive. It's so expensive to ship. And if you're shipping a painting that's got a big heavy frame on it, it's a nightmare. So what I've been what, what I've been doing lately, and again, it depends on the gallery, if they're willing to do it or not. I will I order frames and have the frame shipped to the galleries. Save one less shipping charge. And I just shipped canvases which is so much easier. And most galleries that I've dealt with don't mind that at all, you know, because they've got a back room they've got there's a lot of times when they get paintings in sometimes the frames are a little damaged or they've got you know, so they there's most galleries, decent galleries have a back room where they can, you know, frame things up, they can fix something if it's chipped or whatever. So that's kind of been my work around lately.
Clint Watson 1:03:20
Do you send them rolled? Or do you send them already stretched,
1:03:23
stretched, stretched? Because I don't something about rolled canvases? I don't trust, you know, like, whether it's a dimple or it's, you know, if you paint thickly, it doesn't really, you know,
Clint Watson 1:03:36
and then it probably does depend on your style.
1:03:39
Yeah, a lot of times, you know, my, my paintings are still drying when they're being shipped. So that that can be a little nerve wracking. But what I did start doing and this is a little technique thing. I switched over my titanium whites that I use, I switched over to a Galkin white, titanium white, which is a quick drying white. So it makes your paintings drive faster, so you can ship them sooner. Wow. Because since I'm always waiting to the last minute. I recommend that and it's a good white, you know, it's made by Windsor Newton. It's not this, you know, fancy shmancy handmade paint, and it works fine. I mean, it works completely fine. I mean, and it's a nice little workaround. And I do I saw somebody asked a question if I glaze. I do glaze on occasion. Yes.
Olya Babich Konell 1:04:39
So this is such
Clint Watson 1:04:40
Yeah, I agree with you that having the gallery do the framing is the best solution. Yeah.
1:04:46
And really they should share the cost of the frames especially. I mean the 22 carat frames these days, they've doubled in price since all the innovation. The
Clint Watson 1:04:55
thing that always struck me about it was it's just so unfair to the artists I mean If you pay, I don't even know what frames are lately. But if you pay, I don't know, $300 for our frame, and then the gallery gets that. Yeah, they're most likely going to mark it up. So you pay for the frame and the gallery gets the profit on the frame. Yeah. So just let the gallery handle it. Well, at least they put the you know, at least they deserve the profit in that instance, because they paid for the frame,
Olya Babich Konell 1:05:23
you could even position be like, hey, that way you guys get to pick the frame that's best gonna fit?
1:05:28
Yeah. And let me tell you, a lot of times the clients don't like the frames. Yeah,
Clint Watson 1:05:34
that was when I was in the gallery business. We had a frame shop attached. Yeah, it was. So it helped us sell a lot of stuff. Because people would be like, Oh, I hate that frame. And it was always no problem. We'll take it off, we'll give you whatever the credit was for the frame, and we can help you pick another one.
1:05:50
Yeah, that's, that usually works. And I've had, I've lost painting sales, because of the frame I had on it. They're like, Oh, well, you know, we don't like that frame. And it's like, oh, I can get you another one. But they just, you know, that's how it kind of by the seat of their pants, they make these decisions of buying, it's like, well, you liked the painting, or you don't, you know, and it's like, we can put another frame on it, it's not hard. But again, it's
Olya Babich Konell 1:06:19
becomes part of the art piece to this very much
1:06:22
is, but the frames like a good pointing to carrot frame, it's 16 by 20. There, you know, minimum $450. Now up to up to 800. You know, it's like, you know, what, what artists can absorb a whole show of that, you know, I mean, it's like, you know, you're buying leads, like eight 910 $1,000. And just frames alone, and you haven't even shipped it, you know,
Olya Babich Konell 1:06:46
now this is such good advice for especially for artists that are just getting into that, you know, just dipping their feet into it. And gosh, thank you so much. I, I want everybody to know that we are going to we've shared the link already. And we'll share it again. But we have a much longer episode with Tony and Laura. And he dives into more stuff. And you have such a rich background that we didn't even get to touch on everything that you've been involved in and done and learned that you know, I really think if you're here you would benefit from checking that episode out. And I again, Tony, thank you for and I was so rushed in the beginning guys, I'm just gonna blur. I didn't introduce Clint Watson, who is the founder of BoldBrush and FASO, and Angela Augusta, who is our artists or relations specialist. And I didn't know not to maybe introduce myself. I don't know today. I just went gung ho into hammer. I don't remember.
Clint Watson 1:07:50
I think we need to let Tony go. Yeah.
1:07:52
Thank you. Before I go, though, I sent a picture of my website up on the back there. I must say I love the FASO websites. Oh, you know, it's a great tool. You know, prior to meeting them, I was always trying to like design a website was a pain in the butt. You know, to have a nice, clean website. And the tools are really easy to use. It's a nice way of showing your work. It makes it stand out. Well designed, the fonts are great. So highly recommend if you don't have a FASO website, I highly recommend
Angela Agosto 1:08:30
I posted the link. We
Olya Babich Konell 1:08:31
appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Clint Watson 1:08:34
Traveling you're the only person in the whole history of this company that pronounce FASO the way I thought it would be pronounced even I finally gave up now just call it FASO.
1:08:47
Oh, fast. Oh, really? Okay.
Olya Babich Konell 1:08:51
Yeah. And FASO for anybody that's listening stands for Fine Art Studio online. Which the Yeah, I'll I'll dive into that later. But no, thank you again, Tony. We're gonna we understand that you're heading off to a vacation, and we appreciate you for taking the time
Clint Watson 1:09:11
on that. Happy,
1:09:16
thanks so much, you guys. I appreciate it. And don't be afraid to reach out to me if you have questions. I you know, I have an email address on my website there. I usually answer all emails. So I'm not opposed to that. If you guys have other specific questions, feel free to send an email and
Olya Babich Konell 1:09:35
follow him on Instagram. Maybe send him a DM or comment on something if you have a question about something like the paint color technique. How did you get this color makes it very
1:09:46
easy and very easy to get a hold up so
Angela Agosto 1:09:50
I'll put the link to your DVDs too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
Olya Babich Konell 1:09:54
if you're looking to learn Thank you Tony so much. I'm gonna So, we're gonna say goodbye to Tony, then I'm going to segue into some brief kind of announcements that we didn't get into in the very beginning. So I, I flew through it. But if you go to boldbrush.com, that's where you can sign up to get recordings of these webinars. We do these once a month or every four weeks. They're free. They're open to everybody. You we have different artists on that are BoldBrush signature artists. And if you aren't able to make it and you want to watch it, if you're signed up for free or paid, you will get a copy or a link with it in your email. Also on our website, well first of all, BoldBrush is a company who we are, we help artists we inspire artists to inspire the world as that little tagline says up top, but we offer free and paid resources media, which is like this, this episode that we're having with the BoldBrush show podcasts. We have marketing articles, educational information on our website. And then we also offer paid products which is fast FASO, I'm going to be correct there FASO,
Clint Watson 1:11:07
we offer art, it's a losing battle. Yeah.
Olya Babich Konell 1:11:12
We have artful Squarespace by BoldBrush. So if you want a Squarespace site, instead, we have partnered with them to offer basically like a discounted plan, the best plan they have, but at a much lower rate. If you're an existing Squarespace customer, you can actually put your site under our umbrella where we bill you, and not gives you the lower rate and the additional benefits. And then once you're one of our members, one of the coolest things you get access to is called a BoldBrush circle of marketing, which is almost like it's like our own internal social media platform in a way it it's, it's, you know, you log into your account, and then you can access it. But this is where artists can come together for getting critiques, which is like our most popular part of the community is artists asking for critiques from their fellow members. We have an art marketing calendar, which basically shows you like what to do this month, I think this is April's that I opened up. But you know, there's like, you can access it through Google Calendar, you can access it through a spreadsheet, we also have videos and educational videos on how to do a studio sale, how to I mean, pretty much every topic we try to create content for to teach artists how to sell their work and market their art and also focus on connecting them with resources to, you know, grow it, you know, gain that mastery that they need. So, and we've shared links will include these links in your emails as well, that you'll get as a follow up. But that's just a little bit about us and how you can continue learning and interact with us after this session. So Clint, Angela, do you have anything else to add?
Angela Agosto 1:13:02
No, I just posted everything you talked about. Okay. Awesome.
Olya Babich Konell 1:13:07
Well, thank you, everybody that held on till the very end. We really appreciate you. And thank you for joining us today. And for any questions that we missed, we apologize. We do our best to jump and grab as many as we can. We hope you have a wonderful and creative rest of your week.
Angela Agosto 1:13:24
Thank you.
Clint Watson 1:13:26
Thank you.
Olya Babich Konell 1:13:26
Bye
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