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For today’s episode compilation we explore how artists can reframe rejection as a normal, even necessary, part of a creative career rather than a verdict on their worth. Our past guests describe rejection as an ego blow that must be met with humility, a willingness to learn, and a long-term mindset of steady improvement. Several artists share stories of painful setbacks—unsold shows, declined gallery submissions, ignored emails—but explain how these experiences fueled their determination to work harder and get better. They emphasize building a “thick skin” while still remaining open to tough, honest critique, using feedback to refine both craft and professionalism. The conversation also highlights that rejection isn’t always about the artist’s shortcomings; sometimes the fit, timing, or other person’s vision just isn’t right yet. Throughout, our past guests stress perseverance, self-awareness, and staying committed to the work itself as the healthiest way to survive and grow from rejection. All of the episodes mentioned in this compilation are linked in our show notes.
24 Kelly Eden
101 Joseph Gyurcsak
121 Paul Batch
140 Donald Yatomi
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Transcript:
Hillary Scott: 0:00
You don’t quit, the only way to fail is if you really quit. And I think a lot of people, they get discouraged to the point where they do quit, and then, of course, the narrative is like, oh, it’s not it’s not possible. Well, it’s not possible because you quit and you didn’t stay the course, and you didn’t do everything that you could possibly do to make this an option for yourself.
Donald Yatomi: 0:20
I don’t think anybody can teach you how to take rejection, but you got to be ready for rejections, and however you process that, handle that, it comes, rejection comes, you know, even to the most successful people.
Laura Arango Baier: 0:39
Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I’m your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world. In order to hear their advice and insights. For today’s episode compilation, we explore how artists can reframe rejection as a normal, even necessary, part of a creative career, rather than a verdict on their worth. Our past guests describe rejection as an ego blow that must be met with humility, a willingness to learn and a long term mindset of steady improvement. Several artists share stories of painful setbacks, unsold shows, declined, gallery submissions, ignored emails, but explain how these experiences fueled their determination to work harder and get better. They emphasize building a thick skin while still remaining open to tough, honest critique, using feedback to refine both craft and professionalism, the conversation also highlights that rejection isn’t always about the artist’s shortcomings. Sometimes the Fit timing or other person’s vision just isn’t right yet throughout our past guests stress, perseverance, self awareness and staying committed to the work itself as the healthiest way to survive and grow from rejection, all of the episodes mentioned in this compilation are linked in our show notes.
Kelly Eden: 2:05
Build relationships. Show people you care in any relationship you make on your career path. Show people that they’re special. Art collectors, fellow artists, art galleries, etc. If you start showing in galleries. You know, you can always be honest about your work and experience and invite feedback. So if you’re not sure, you know what price point your work would sell for, you can always ask the curator their opinion. You know, assure them you won’t be offended, and you’re just looking for feedback. And also this is a tough one, but get comfortable with rejection. It happens a lot for artists rejection. Rejection for artists is a spicy type of ego death that can be very, very debilitating. So you cannot let it wound you. You have to put a band aid on it and just keep going. Being an artist is one of the most complicated careers there is because there is so much personal passion behind our work. You know, we are sensitive by nature, and that can make it really, really hard to not take it personally when our work is shut down. So on the flip side of that, artists can also be a little egotistical, so I would say, don’t ever think that you’re too good to learn more. You should be getting better every year, and you should be learning from all of your peers one way or another.
Hillary Scott: 3:36
There are certain subjects, don’t get me wrong, there are subjects that at some point in my career, I would love to be able to tackle them, but I know that there’s just no way that I’ll do them justice at this point. So I just kind of take it just just things that are just outside my comfort zone, you know, that are just a little bit uncomfortable for me, but I know I can do them, and I think I have a good idea of that at this point. Like, you know, there was a time back when I was an illustrator, and my taste was up here and my skills were way down here, and that was very frustrating for me. And I think that was the breaking point where I was like, I actually do need to sign up for some classes, because I really don’t know what I’m doing here. And it took me a long time to get to that point, because I think when you’re younger, there’s a little bit of arrogance, you know, like, you’re just like, Oh, I’m like, I know what I’m doing here. And then at some point, you realize that you’re actually not that good as you think you are. And that’s, you know, it’s a wake up call. It’s, it’s a little bit painful to admit that, but, you know, I did at some point, I was like, You know what? I I definitely need some help, because, you know, if somebody shows me how to do something, I just kind of learn. I learn a whole lot faster by swallow my pride and just going and learning things that I thought I knew but I really didn’t know. So that was a great learning experience for me. And you know, what else I feel like? The more like, the more I learn. Or it’s like, the harder it is. And I know that was another quote, that it’s like, the the more I forget what the exact quote is. But it’s like, painting is so easy when you don’t know how to do it. And I think that was for me, I was like, I was a little bit delusional about my ability for a long time back, mostly my 20s, early 30s. So I’ve been at this latest, you know my landscape chapter for nine years now, so I’m, you know, next year will be 10 years of painting the landscapes, and it has been a long, slow journey. But I just, you know, I’ve learned so much, and it’s been painful. There’s, as I said, there’s been a lot of failures, a lot of rejection, you know, but that’s just part of the journey that’s, there’s no, like, easy way. There’s no shortcut to getting anywhere really worth going. It really resonates because I spent, oh, my God, I started working when I was like, I don’t know, like, 1314, you know, all the jobs right into teaching, right out of college, just to make money, I was a teacher. And then, of course, I took a big detour, and I was like, Oh, the art’s not working out. You know, I was kind of listening to the voices, the negative voices that were saying that art is not a feasible career. And I did fall prey to that a little bit. And I did take a detour, went back to school for something totally different, just to have a sensible job. Of course, that didn’t work out, because I think eventually, yes, a sensible job. And I just, I resented it so much. I’m like, I just always felt like, you know, I’m here to paint, and I’m like, nothing is easy in life. Like, if you no matter what career you’re trying to do, like, if you want to be a doctor, you have to go to school for, I don’t know how many years, like, you know, no matter what the career path you’re trying to do, if it’s worth it in the end, if it’s, if it’s, it’s going to be difficult. And this has been no different. It’s just a different path, and it’s been so worth it, though, like to get to this point and just be able to say to the people who told me I could never do this, and it’s just like, it’s gratifying. But yeah, there’s been $0 set. $0 shows there’s just been, as I said, so much rejection. It’s just the just a lot of struggles along the way. But of course, those make it worth it too, because you don’t quit, the only way to fail is if you really quit. And I think a lot of people, they get discouraged to the point where they do quit, and then, of course, the narrative is like, oh, it’s not it’s not possible. Well, it’s not possible because you quit and you didn’t stay the course, and you didn’t do everything that you could possibly do to make this an option for yourself. Yeah, and I just, I didn’t want to feel like a victim. I felt like, you know, these jobs were like, everyone was saying, you know, this is just how it is. It’s like, No one values the art. And I was like, Well, I’m just going to be a victim to this. Then this, this narrative that it’s like, you have to and I’m not a victim. Like, I don’t have that mindset. My mindset is like, I’m going to fight, I’m going to I’m going to, you know, I’m going to win, even if it takes me, like, 10 years, 20 years. I don’t care how long it takes me, it’s just, I’m a fighter. And when I have a will, when I say I’m going to do something, I I do it. I just do everything in my power. And I don’t make up excuses, you know, I don’t. That’s just how I am. And as far as making a living or making money off your work, I think it’s such a slow, such a slow process. It’s going to be slower than you want it to be. It’s just because these skills to build to a level where you can consistently put out work that’s good and saleable. It’s gonna it’s just gonna take. It’s going to take a while, but you always have to realize why you’re doing it. It shouldn’t be just to make, you know, money. When I don’t think any artist is in this just to make money, I think that it’s you have to love the process of it. You have to always remember why you’re doing it, and just enjoy the process of creating art and just celebrate the small victories. You know, it’s not going to be like, all of a sudden you go from like, you don’t paint at all. You don’t know what you’re doing, you know, you go plan your painting one time, and then you go to selling like a $10,000 painting, like, it doesn’t work that way. You go out there, you just, kind of, you’re just, it’s a career, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. So, you know, and I will say this is that while you are trying to make money, I know a lot of artists, there’s no shame in having a side gig, like, you know, something, a part time job. You may hate it, like I hated mine, but you know, you it’s a necessary part of the thing. And then knowing that eventually, you know, if you really put the time in and you’re really invested in your work, you can eventually break free of it and just, you know it’s over time you’ll make you’ll make that progress, and your work will get more attention, and you’ll get higher end collectors, and you’ll get more visibility. But you just can’t rush it, because there’s just only you can only you learn some. Much so fast, like, I just think that it’s a very it’s a learning curve. You know, whenever you’re learning a new skill, it’s just going to take a while, and it’s going to take, you know, failed paintings and a lot of, again, rejection for shows. And so you have to build up a thick skin. You have to build you have to, if you don’t, you’re going to, you’re not going to survive, you know, and be able. And the other thing I would say is be, this was kind of come into play with the question about, you know, when I was getting instruction, and it’s like, be able to take a tough critique, because I didn’t like the people that were like, oh, it’s really, it’s so good. It’s like, you know, I just, I tell me that it sucks. Like, just tell me why it sucks. Like I need to be. I need tough coaching, because that’s the only way you’re going to get better. If somebody is brutally honest with you, we don’t need to sugarcoat things. I didn’t, you know, I never really learned from professors teachers that would be too nice, and they were afraid to insult me. And I know there are people that get very offended, and they’re like, Oh my God. I’m like, I suck. You have to be willing to take instruction. And, you know, have the brutal truth, and you know, spoken to you.
Gladys Roldan-de-Moras: 11:13
That’s a really good question I want to tell you, and I share this with a lot of people, because it relates to many other professions, especially musicians, you know. But I started little by little, I started selling when I was telling you I was teaching, I was also selling paintings that I was doing that I don’t even know. Want to know where they’re at, you know, because sometimes you wish it would disappear. I don’t even know where that but at second hand furniture stores, that’s how I started. My paintings would sell for 50 $100 at all. And I remember traveling to Mexico once, and we would go all the time to visit the family. And my son, David, who’s a wrong, you know, a man now with his own family, young children. He was, like, four or five years old, and we were walking down the the main aisle when, when the airports were all open, you know, where there was no, no, you can’t go past. You know, back then probably, you were probably his age, but, but anyways, there was a local gallery that used to display paintings on the main on the main corridor as you were going into the gate, and my my son pulls at me, says, Mom, mom, there’s your painting. And I’m like, what? And I turned around and I look at my painting. I said, Why is my painting here? I sold it at the second hand furniture store for, you know, whatever. And this one was like, I think $500 I had jumped like from there to, you know, I remember it was at least double or something. And I was about to leave, and I said, when I come back, I’m going to call and see what this is about. And as soon as I got back, the owner, she says to me, she says, Well, we’ve been selling your paintings very often. I thought it was you that was bringing it. And I said, No, it’s not me. But so I remember, because I was selling for $100 that I made a jump to 500 you know, or something like that. But it was big for me. Way back, it was big, but I have been very careful to sell my paintings, and be little by little, raising my prices, raising my price, never coming back down because I wanted you know, you think about collectors, and you say, well, if they are willing to buy one of my paintings and pay whatever amount you know, you don’t want to know that. Oh, well, you know, unfortunately, some artists will say, Well, if you buy it at my studio, it’ll cost you less or than if you buy it so and so, which is so wrong, you know, so wrong in so many levels. So I have been very, very careful through the years that as I moved from little galleries to finally another gallery to another, that whatever you buy at the gallery for whatever it is, you’re going to buy it in my studio for whatever the same amount I’ve never so I’ve been very careful, which has helped me, I guess, Because galleries also get burned about people, because now with social media, any person interested in your work, well, they go Google you, and then they can find you. What I do, I usually do, is I ask people, where did they if that happens to me? Somebody caught Where did you hear from me? Of course, you never know if they’re going to tell you the truth or not. They could say, Well, I went to this gal. And I heard about you, and I Googled you. But what I’ve done is, when they mention a gallery or another one, I always call the gallery and I tell them, Listen, I don’t know if you know this person, but this person has contacted me, and if I do sell, you know, you know, I’ll you will get your but anyway, so what I’ve been is I’ve been very, very, very careful. And when I started selling, it was hard to let go some of the paintings. It really was. Now I find it as an honor that anybody would consider, you know, to add their painting to their collection. But I have been very careful. I have been rejected many times, and that is fine. I just recently, because I still have my old studio in my house. Before I built this studio, there’s still a lot of stuff I haven’t moved over, and I came across it. I came across a letter from a gallery which I had submitted my work and and the gallery wrote me a letter, a very nice letter that said, you know, we just don’t feel we are a fit for you now. And that was, you know, I took it was very hard because, you know, you’re an artist. We put our hearts in our sleeves. Thankfully, we’re not like performers. At least, you know that we have to sing there in live. At least we can paint then go take it over, and then take rejection, kind of, you know, in private or where, but it’s a very, it’s very sensitive. But I found this letter, and I found a letter of that same gallery inviting me, okay, now I was so happy that I felt, I must say, with years different said, you know, the gallery was right. I wasn’t, probably ready for that, or maybe they didn’t believe I. Don’t know, you know. But the thing is that it’s hard to take rejection, but I, you know, I have taken, I have had shows where I did not sell one piece of opinion. So we have to learn that, at least in my life, it’s not all been wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. You know, it’s, it’s learning, it’s trying to be strong and to make not take it personally that well, okay, they didn’t like my work. Well, it’s not because not You’re not good. Like another friend artist says to me, when you have a show and a painting doesn’t sell, well, it’s just that the right collector hasn’t come across. And it’s true, it’s true. It’s happened to me, man, I find a home. I send it somewhere, like they’ll find a home. So so it was very rewarding moving into selling my paintings I was able to afford, you know, buying my own, you know, because, you know, this, this, this business, takes a lot of investment. These paintings that are back here, actually, most of these are G click copies. Some are originals, but this few, and there’s more to where there. And the only reason I have those here, they don’t have the beautiful frames that I usually I had very simple frames, but we know that frames are expensive and all of that, so it’s you have to put money to make more. But it’s been very rewarding. Sometimes it’s been hard. It hasn’t been easy. I still remember going, somebody told me once, how did you get into the Santa Fe market, you know, which was a very hard market to get into it. It was many years ago, and back then, I remember doing this, and I made CDs. It was in social media, or here’s my website. It was just, really, just started, I made these CDs with music, and it had, like a a show of my paintings. And at the end it would stop and say, looking for representation and and my name, and, you know, my phone number. And then I put them in one of those old, you know, covers. And I literally went through all Canyon Road and drop and drop them off. And one gallery called me, and that put my foot on Canyon Road, and I will still remember, I will still remember that, but it was, it’s a hard, you know, it’s not an easy road, but it is a rewarding, you know, wrote, and these are the kind of things i A lot of people come and ask me about and, and I try to be as honest and help them. And why not? You know, people have been so gracious to share with me the way they did it, or be it technically, or, you know, some experience about this business of being an artist. I I’m I’m very happy when I have time to be able to talk to them and give me give them my advice. And now I must say that I’ve been very fortunate that I have never submitted to a show. I have always been invited. It, for which I’m very grateful. I have been invited to so many other art shows, which I wish I could say yes. And you know, you work so hard, all your Oh, I would like to be in the show. This would be amazing. And then it comes to a point where, yeah, you are invited. But can you do it? Can you really paint that many paintings in such you know, and it has been very hard to call people or write them and say, I’m sorry I can’t do it as much as I want. And you hope that you’re not burning bridges, but it’s the honest truth. Just like galleries, I’m waiting for you to present something new, but I don’t know if I’m getting slower as I’m getting older in age, or what it is, or made more complex paintings, but I don’t paint that quick. I paint every day, long, long. Day, 1012, hours, not 10, no, maybe up to 10 hours, but, but I don’t paint that quick, so it’s hard to say no, but you have to, otherwise you’re sacrificing in my point, in my in my experience, you’re sacrificing quality. And I just recently had to ask one of these major shows, if I could sit out for this year because I have so many commissions that I have that have been requested from me. And I said, Yes, and I need to deliver these. So they were very nice, and they said, Yeah, that I hope just you don’t just not show up anymore. I said, No, I just really need one year. But it’s But getting back to the like the business thing, I always tell my students, be very careful, that if you are going to go up on your prices, that you’ll be very careful, and you do not come back because collector’s world is very small, galleries world is very small, and you have to be very professional about this, so that people have credibility in your work, you know. And so I have been that way and and I couldn’t be happier to where I’m at right now.
Laura Arango Baier: 22:19
Applebrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that’s BOLDBRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now, more than ever, it’s crucial to have a website when you’re an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, FASO.com/podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that’s basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won’t get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, FASO.com/podcast. That’s FASO.com/podcast.
Noah Buchanan: 24:00
um, that’s a great question. I I think for me, because I love the narrative in in in traditional painting, realism, representational painting, whatever you want to call it, that’s always been my biggest inspiration. You know, even just from looking at storybooks and illustrations as a child and later, reading all of the classics that were illustrated by NC Wyeth. So I have a strong love for the narrative, but I think traditional illustrators like NC Wyeth, like Norman Rockwell, Howard Pyle, who I, who I regard as masters, you know, they I think the role of the illustrator is to give the story in a more straightforward way. But they don’t always do it that way. I mean, sometimes they just depict the they illustrate the story being told. You know. Because that’s their role. They’re an illustrator. Their image accompanies a novel or story of some kind. I like it. For me. I like it when there’s a piece of the narrative is there, but there’s also a mystery waiting to be investigated or solved by the viewer. Or maybe it’s never solved. Maybe they maybe it leaves them with the feeling of mystery. I think that’s important to leave the viewer with, with either a mild or strong dose of mystery to the work, even if the painter has a specific intention in mind, and what they’re doing and what they’re what narrative they’re telling. That’s where my interest in narrative artwork falls. I think, I think a lot about dreams and how dreams are narratives of types, but dreams are fascinating narratives because they can, they can take, you know, a sudden left turn, or they can have multiple outcomes, or the narrative can change, but and yet still feel cohesive with its initial story. I mean, you know, dreams are, can be wild and crazy and and a lot of people just count them, you know. But I think a lot of artists look at their dreams very seriously. So for me, when I make narrative paintings, I think about dreams a lot, because something that I think is true, something I feel is true about dreams, is that it makes sense that this is true to me, because it’s it’s happening in your mind, happening in your brain when you have a dream. Everything that happens in that dream, everybody that you encounter and interact with, is really just you wearing, you know, a disguise or a mask or a different outfit or cloaked in, you know, the skins of another animal or monster. And so when we make a painting, a multiple figure, narrative painting, we’re really tapping into that flavor of a dream, or playing all these roles, you know, and we’re looking at all these different aspects of our own persona, and then we’re asking our viewer to do the same, of course, because I don’t think narrative Painting is about the painter themselves. It shouldn’t be, I don’t think narrative painting, you know. I think we don’t want to create the impression that an artist is really just narcissistic and completely engaged in their own neuroses. You know. I think it’s important for an artist to to work with all of these themes and traditions, the Jungian one, the campbellian one, but to realize that there’s a duty when making narrative art, to always pull the audience in to make this can make it powerful for them. You know, to say, well, let’s say this painting embraces or grapples with issues of abandonment or or rejection and some way, or, you know, maybe that leads into topics of isolation. It’s important for the artist to say, you know, even though they’ve experienced that themselves in their own life, to not make it a soap opera painting about the way, the exact way in which Dave experienced it, but to really zoom out in the narrative and say, How can I deal with themes of rejection, isolation, abandonment? I’m just picking ones at random, right? Big human theme that will pull in the whole audience. Everyone that’s going to look at this can find a way in to resonate with what’s going on in the story in the painting, or the characters and what they’re doing in the painting, to find a way to see themselves in the painting. I think, for me, narrative artworks, really, they they have that they have that what’s the word, that requirement that they need, that that accountability to speak to the audience, to pull in the audience. And you know, we don’t need to give them a fully scripted version of what’s happening in the painting. A mysterious version of what’s happening is really better, you know, because it does it just, it just tickles human intrigue more, but it also might leave openings or seats in the audience for the audience to feel, for the individual viewer to feel like they can now inhabit the you know, and be part of the audience, be part of the the or really take part in the performance of what’s happening. Feel. They’re in there. I hope. I hope and strive for those feelings in my painting. I’m not saying that I can do that, or that I always do that. I think I do it sometimes when I’m lucky, but I always think about it and and that’s something I want to have happen in my paintings. Definitely.
Chris Navarro: 30:16
I don’t believe in overthinking things like I remember that lady asked me. She goes, Yeah, I want to sculpt a dinosaur. I want light to come out of it. And I said, Yeah, never even in my mind I would come up with that ideas, 90 year old lady. And she says, I want to leave a big monument to the state of Wyoming at the Tate museum. And I want it to be a dinosaur, light coming out of it. And I thought, wow, that is what a request. Well, if I’m gonna do a dinosaur, I’m gonna do it a T Rex. And if I’m gonna do light out of it, I know I gotta have a negative cavity in there, so I’ll make it half flesh and half skeletal. So when you look at one side of the whole sculpture, it looks like a completely fleshed out T Rex. Then you’d spin it around and it would be a total skeleton. And I don’t know it was kind of it was a cool concept. It had Art com light coming out of and she’s the same lady also commissioned me to do, I did a 17 foot tall Jesus Christ, and was Sacred Heart of Jesus, and she wanted light to come out of his heart. Designed that, and it was a challenge to do that. So I’ve only done two sculptures of light coming out of him, and Mary. Alice Tobin was the Benefactor commissioned me to do that. And and I know the last piece I was working on, she passed away before I got it done for but you know, you know, artists need those kind of collectors and sponsors to do a lot of these big projects, you know. And I’m always grateful for that, because, I mean, I get to make a living doing something. I do for nothing, you know, and I get paid for it, and I’ve been able to make a good living at it. But I don’t want to take it for granted, because granted, because I know what it’s like not to have nothing, and I know what it’s like to be at the bottom, looking your way up, trying to, like, go into five galleries, and they all turning you down because they don’t want to represent you because, you know, it’s not good enough. I know what that’s like. It’s not a good feeling, but it fires you up always. You know, I’m trying to help other artists out, and I tell them, I let rejection work for me, but someone tells me that my work’s not good enough, or I can’t get in this show, or or I get rejected for this, or get a rejection letter for applying for a big show, or a gallery turns me down. Says, No, you know, I say, Oh yeah, okay, look, give me a chance. I’m gonna work a little harder and get it right, you know. And then, I mean, the first time I went to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, shredding in galleries was before I became a professional. I had like, five or six little sculptures, and I went in in my little portfolio, and I knocked on five doors. I started at the best Gallery, and went down to the other ones. I said, Well, these are the five galleries I’d want to be in, they all told me now. And I went, my wife was waiting for me in the car, and I went back, and I said, You know what, I’m not good enough yet to get in these galleries. I want to go home and work harder. That’s how I took it. I didn’t say, like, oh golly, I can’t, you know this and that. I mean, you’re not going to please everybody with your work, and you shouldn’t try to, you know what? You should try to do the very best. And that’s the only thing I can really do. I can’t do anything else, and I try not to let others but what’s going on in someone else’s mind? Really, I got no control of that, but I can try to control my mindset, and that’s kind of how I look at it. And I’ve been fortunate to make a living at it with that kind of mindset. You know, I know there’s a lot of young artists, because I get approached by all these artists that want to be represented at my own gallery, and some at my own gallery in Sedona, and we only have probably about 15 artists, and I have to take somebody down to put somebody new up, and it’s hard rejecting these young artists that come in there and they bring their portfolios, because I know what it’s like, you know. And I tell them that, I said, man, good luck. Because you know what? Just keep working hard. I said, the more that you know how you get better. Make lots of art, and the more art you make, the better you’re going to get. I mean, I don’t know any other simple way to explain it, but the sheer number of hours you put in the process, that’s how you get better. There’s no quick fixes, there’s not no gallery, there’s not no art agent, there’s not no article in some magazine that’s going to make your career. It’s a lifelong struggle. You just keep doing and go into the next thing, you know, like, when I finish a big sculpture, I put that aside. Don’t even think about it anymore. I go start on another one, you know. And that’s, I think that’s the way I’ve approached it. I’m not saying My way is doing it is the right for everybody. It’s just worked for me.
Johanna Spinks: 34:14
And, you know, that’s the other thing that we as artists, we have to learn to handle the disappointments, you know. And Ray Kinsler talked about that a lot, you know. And one story that he would say was he had a two certificates on his mantelpiece. Same painting entered into a competition the year before, rejection letter. The next year, he got the gold medal for the painting, and he kept it side by side, those two certificates to remind him that you really you have to enter art competitions, I guess, but you can’t judge yourself by it too much. You know you’re dealing with somebody else’s, the judge’s idea of of who you are, and you know whether they like this, that or the other.
Joseph Gyurcsak: 34:55
I think as far as the journey of the interior. Careers, I had a opportunity was I applied for a contest to be on the Forbes ranch out west to American artists in 2006 2005 maybe. And so I I I didn’t get in that contest, but then I was asked by Steven Doherty, who, at the time, was the publisher of the American artist magazine, that he have something better for you. It was a long rejection letter. Usually those letters I like, Okay, you didn’t get in whatever, but this was a long rejection layer. I said, I better read it. So we read it, and it said, I have something really cool for you, maybe more interesting than the trip you overlapped with another artist, but I really want to do a full feature article on you about your interiors, and so I I said, Oh yeah, that’s fine. So I had an opportunity where I had my laptop, and I happened to be traveling from New Jersey to Boston, and I wrote the entire article on the train, and then I submitted to him. I was really excited about this opportunity, so I wrote the article and submitted it to me. Loved it, and when he published that article, it put me on the it put me on the national level. It exposed me to many different galleries and and you know, at that time, if you got an article from Steven Doherty, it was a very important turning point in your career. It was a big deal. So it did make a big difference. And then I had galleries calling me about my interiors. And my interiors basically started with painting situations in my house where I had my family members. And then I was trying to record the different light situation, this and that. And then I had broadened it to, you know, social situations outside the studio, different places, notable environments, and those type of things. But the journey right now has been very interesting, because I’ve been I started about two and a half years ago, and I have some of them in the back of me right now, but I’ve been painting my studio over and over again in different way, light and situations and all that. Well, I I likened it to Giorgio Morandi. Giorgio Morandi really never left his studio, and he painted the still lifes for about 50 years. And I thought, wow, that’s very interesting. Wyeth never really left his properties, and he kept finding more and more and for more more subject information and growing that story and studio is not very big, but I post these things on Instagram. People think I have this huge studio or whatever, but it’s just the interesting way the light travels in here, and I purposely let the mess grow in different ways, and then I tried to record it again and again and again, and I just did another one last night. So it’s just a continual journey. I don’t know what is going to come out of those yet, because I’d have probably about 40 of those paintings so far. Some of them I have sold off already, but I have a good amount of them. So I don’t know where that’s going yet, but I just keep following it and doing it. I’ve entered some in competitions and all that business, and it’s been an interesting journey because and a great lesson for artists, um hearing this that you know, if you do a one off of a subject matter, that’s great, and it turns out great. And then you want to say you want to move on, but there is something about um, staying in a certain vein, and really work in that vein, and that starts to get really deep. And that’s exactly what has happened with the Studio series. Thing I it’s, it’s been a quite an interesting journey, and I’ve been getting deeper and deeper into it. It’s, it keeps moving along in such interesting in different ways, different life, different moods, different that, you know, it’s just unbelievable when I start to include myself in it at times. So I’m just having a lot of fun with that. Yes, I work on landscapes and other things I am best known in. For collecting my interiors, of course, because that that’s something that is really one of the spots where I really do flourish well. So, yeah,
Paul Batch: 40:10
especially, I mean, I still get rejection now, like, and there’s like, what I like to move up, you know, sure, you know, at some point would I like to, I don’t know, maybe do a museum show or, you know, have, like, you know, that kind of thing. That’d be awesome, you know. And what kind of work would I want to do for something like that? And my head’s starting to go to these places now, because I’m getting a little older and like, what I want to say through my landscapes and my portraits and things like that. You know, that becomes more but early on, yeah, you got to be able to get rejected constantly, all the time, by everybody. You know. You know, your family is going to reject you, your friends are going to reject you. The person that owns the gallery is not even going to talk to you. You know, like, I’ve that stuff early on is really difficult. You got to just get okay with it. I didn’t come from an area where there was galleries, or I don’t come from an income bracket where people buy actual art, so I had to kind of learn about that stuff, you know. And in school all that stuff was dirty. Nobody wants to talk about it, you know, it’s like, I want to sell, I want to be on our is, you know, it’s like, no, no, just, you know, I don’t know, get a grant, go live off of some commune or something, and paint pictures. And it’s like I wasn’t gonna fit me. I, you know, I didn’t want to do that stuff. Not that there’s anything wrong with it. It’s just I didn’t, you know, sugar, I just lost what was in my head. What were we talking about?
Laura Arango Baier: 41:51
I lost it too. I’m being honest. But it’s great. It’s great. We were talking
Paul Batch: 41:56
about rejection, rejection, rejection. Yes, lots of rejection. So feel free to cut me off at any time. I saw a couple of things out there so early on, like one of the I’ll bring up some of my more painful moments. I was at the local art gallery. It’s in West Hartford in Connecticut, and I had been there for a couple years teaching and doing stuff or whatever. But anyways, so they’re having one of these nights. It’s a fundraiser night, and they’re like, Hey, Paul, you want to go paint outside, and then we’ll raffle off your painting at the end. I’m like, Yeah, sure. That sounds fun. You know that I would do anything for them at that point? You know? I was like, absolutely. So I go out there, my wife comes. We weren’t married yet. I don’t think we’re married. I don’t think we’re married. I don’t know. We might have been married. No kids yet, though. So I’m out there and I’m painting, and, you know, a couple people come by and, you know, paintings done, pop it in the frame. You got to go stand up. You got to auction it off, right? I know maybe like 30 people in the audience. Nobody wants to bid shit on my painting. So I got me standing up there next to the thing I worked on, and like, the price drops, like, and I’m still standing there, and nobody wants to bid and I’m just got that stupid look on my face like, fucking kill me. Now, you know, I am done. Just let me go die off in the corner somewhere. This is the most horrible thing in my life. Nobody wants to pay like, 200 bucks for this thing, like, seriously, like the cost of the frame. No, nobody. It’s not even worth it at that point, you know. So, I mean, I did. I did all kinds of stuff like that early on, just trying to put myself out there, you know, just because you got to go out there and people got to tell you no, and you got to take it, and you got to say, I don’t care. I’m going to get better tomorrow. Frick this my the gallery I work with now, the most is probably at is, is Addison Art Gallery at the Cape Helen, if you’re watching, hello. I love telling this one too, because it took this is, this is nine in sign language. We don’t do three. This is nine. So it took me nine years of emails to this woman before she would talk to me. So every year, while I’m at home with the baby and trying to, like, hey, I can do David casting, sure. Well, I’m in that headset. I’m like, I was getting American art collector and some of these magazines and stuff, and I saw a painting by Paul Schulenburg that I liked, and it was a like a bathrobe hanging off a door, you know, no big deal, right? But the lights hitting it nice. I like the way it’s painted. And I’m reading the article, and he seems nice. And I noticed a gallery, and then the woman working at the gallery, Helen, she owns a gallery. It’s her gallery. And then I see them again in the same magazine, you know. And I’m like, and it started to put it together. Like, wow, she’s really working for this dude. Like, I need, I need a Helen. I need this woman, you know. So I. I ended up having a list of about 2025, galleries that I would email every like six months or so. And I would just send out all my paintings, or whatever, all my, you know, portfolio images, send them out. No, nobody. Nobody responds to those things. You know, every what, what would be nice. Would be like, Hey, not bad. Try back next year, you know, those kinds of things. I was like, oh, somebody said something, you know, but, yeah, no, after nine years, and I never went there before, that’s my problem, right? I didn’t go to the gallery, right? Anybody now who wants to get in the gallery? You have to take your butt and you have to go into the gallery, and you have to say hello, and you tell them up front, you’re an artist and you’re just here to look, you talk, and you just go to the openings, you make friends with the artist. You know, I think that’s still a good way to get into galleries. I did this cold email stupid thing, because I was, you know, whatever, after nine years, she sends me back an email and says, Hey, we’re having a paint out, I don’t know, next month, why don’t you come it wasn’t like, Hey, your paintings look fantastic. I love your work. It was, hey, we’re having a paint out, why don’t you join us? I was in Connecticut. She was at the Cape. It was probably like, five, six hours. I’m like, Oh God, I’m gonna have to get a hotel. I’m looking at my wife. I’m like, do I do this? And she’s like, well, yes, you do this, because right now you have nothing. You know, the furniture store you were showing artwork at has long gone. You know, kids are in diapers. So I’m like, okay, so we slept it. We got two kids at this point. I go up there and it is an all day interview. Now, it’s not an official interview, right? I get there, there’s a paint out. I don’t do these things. I was I had almost very little plein air experience at the time. So I go there, and I’m because I just paint on my kitchen table and stuff like that. So anyways, so I go there, and you have to go sign up in the morning. And I go, Hi, I’m the guy you know. And she’s like, cool, go, here’s some places you’re gonna paint. I had no concept of the cape at all. I was just happy it was, like a gray rainy day, because I hate green, and I can do gray rain and, like, right? Yes, that mood. I can do that mood. So I’m like, All right, fine. So I go and I paint and I say hi to people. And I don’t like to say hi to people. I’ve gotten way better at it, but, like, at the time, I was just like, I want to be an introvert artist. Leave me alone. You know, that kind of stuff. And I had to go paint on location, come back at lunchtime, show her what I did. I get sent back out to go paint some more. But looking back, there was all the interview. So it was meeting the other artists. It was working and talking with her that day. It was jumping through whatever she wanted me to jump through, because we had an exhibition at the end of the day where we hung up our wet paintings, and we stood there and, you know, did that whole thing, which all new to me. You know, I do not feel comfortable standing next to my artwork, smiling and saying, Hey, look what I did. I do not like doing that. I would much rather talk about anybody else’s work in the gallery except mine. I’ve gotten better at it, but at that point, I’m an idiot about these things, and she was making people come and talk to me. So now I’m talking with, like, collectors from the gallery, her friends, these people, and I assume they are going back and giving her the thumbs up or the thumbs down as to like, hey, this guy’s a jerk, or, Oh, he seems nicer. I don’t know what happened behind the scenes, but at the end of the day, my wife was in the parking lot with the two kids. It was getting near the end, and I’m like, can we go? You know, the kids are like, restless, so it’s like, fine, it’s almost over. Let’s just go. I get in the car. We start driving down the road. Got a long ride back to Connecticut. Helen calls me up because there was no, like, goodbye or nothing, I don’t know, like, and she’s like, Hey, there’s somebody here that wants to talk to you. Where’d you go? So I just turned the car around. I was like, hang on, I’m just outside. Went really fast, back to the place, ran inside, talked to who she wanted me to talk to, and then, um, thank God I did, because then after that, we were good and, like, I was in, but what I didn’t realize, like, wow, you know, so that’s a long Helen story, but awesome. That was my in that’s how I got in there. And then once you prove yourself at a gallery show, you can do the work you do the work other galleries notice, you know, the more exposure you can get through other venues, because she helps promote me. So I get in the magazines once in a while now, thanks to her and things like that too and stuff. So I mean all that really helped elevate me out of my kitchen. I mean, I’m forever grateful for that, but what I didn’t expect the interview day to be like that, that was that was just a wild day, and I look back on that really fondly, but I was a mess.
Laura Arango Baier: 50:12
Oh man, hindsight is 2020, but that’s awesome.
Donald Yatomi: 50:15
That’s, Can I say one more thing? Of course, that would be helpful, but it’s very, very hard. Is, is, I don’t think anybody can teach you how to take rejection, but you got to be ready for rejections, and however you process that and handle that, it comes, rejection comes, you know, even to the most successful people like, you know. So just be, just be aware that it does come. And, you know, you got to be able to take a rejection and learn from it and and sort of like, have that self want awareness that, hey, maybe, you know, maybe I’m, you know, I’m not ready for this, you know. But there’s another thing too. Is when you get a rejection, it’s not always your fault, meaning it’s not just your work that it’s that’s an issue. Sometimes it’s the other person that you’re proposing to that they’re, they’re not, they’re not being able, they’re they’re not able to see the value of you. Just yet, you know, they don’t see the potential, or they don’t see a value of you. So it’s like I said, it’s not rejections will come, but it’s not always going to be you that’s being rejected. They’re actually, you know, not not being able to appreciate you kind of thing.
Laura Arango Baier: 51:48
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